Need Men to Answer!

[futureneonateMD]

I have a dilemma... My boyfriend and I are both graduating from undergrad next year, and i am going to medical school after graduation. We have been together for 4 years, and have always talked about getting married one day. Now he is saying that he's had thoughts of breaking up with me beacuse he feels like he is holding me back. He said that he doesn't know if he can handle the fact that I will be making more money than him after becoming a MD. I really think it has more to do with the fact that he doesn't know what he is going to do after graduation, and his family laughs at the fact that he may become "a doctor's husband." So my question is, are there any men who would be uncomfortable with their wife making more than them? Or are there any that are actually in that situation that can give me advice on how to get it through to my bf that money doesn't matter?

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[SaraL124]

Personally, I do believe there are many men who feel uncomfortable with their wife earning more money than they do. This just shows that they are insecure because they place their value in being able to "provide" because that's what men traditionally did. In our modern society the ability of a man to provide is less important because now women can earn their own income. You should stress to your boyfriend that he has no need to be insecure and remind him that you are a partnership...a partnership in which your high earnings will only benefit him! He should be proud to be your boyfriend/fiance/future husband and he should realize that your higher percentage of the income will enable both of you to live a better lifestyle than if you were to seek out a job that earned less than his simply to make him feel like "the man" in the relationship. Remind him that your career doesn't define you and that even when you are a medical student and eventually a doctor, you will still be the same person he originally fell in love with.

 

[LADoc00]

Personally, I do believe there are many men who feel uncomfortable with their wife earning more money than they do. This just shows that they are insecure because they place their value in being able to "provide" because that's what men traditionally did. In our modern society the ability of a man to provide is less important because now women can earn their own income. You should stress to your boyfriend that he has no need to be insecure and remind him that you are a partnership...a partnership in which your high earnings will only benefit him! He should be proud to be your boyfriend/fiance/future husband and he should realize that your higher percentage of the income will enable both of you to live a better lifestyle than if you were to seek out a job that earned less than his simply to make him feel like "the man" in the relationship. Remind him that your career doesn't define you and that even when you are a medical student and eventually a doctor, you will still be the same person he originally fell in love with.

I thought the title says "Need Men to Answer!" WTF? She probably has already heard your neo-Feminist perspective and wanted something else. Now you ruined it....grats.

Its this type of liberal idealism that really chaffs my behind. I realize that all this is what you were told in Gender Studies 101, I took that class too!

The reality the OP is seeing is that although she maybe fine with it, HIS friends and fam will give him endless grief about his de-masculinization. With the "vaginification" of Western society fully underway, be prepared for potential unintended consequences...

 

[cowbell]

Wow, you're really asking a loaded question. Just to prepare you, take a gander at the "name change" thread, and you'll get a flavor for what the guys participating in this forum are like. Don't be discouraged, because by the looks of it, their odds are not good for expanding their gene pool anyway. Evolutionary negative selection, if you will.

I'm a physician in a competitive medical specialty, and my wife is in science. For some time, both of us were in academics, and neither of us made much money. My wife has since moved on to industry , and she's making a whole lot more money than I am, and I couldn't be happier! To tell you the truth, not all men are happy with this scenario. It has a lot to do with a man's sense of self-worth, confidence, and integrity. Many men.. well... are insecure and fall short. What you got to determine is whether your current boyfriend has the maturity to grow, and rise above his current insecurities. Your medical training is going to be rigorous, and you will need your partner to be supportive. Think seriously about this guy before entering into marrriage with him. You sound like a bright and intelligent woman. I'd advise telling your boyfriend to shape up (and don't settle for superficial platitiudes). If he doesn't make some serious amends, drop this low-hanging fruit and go for good stuff (believe me, they are out there).

 

[SaraL124]

I thought the title says "Need Men to Answer!" WTF? She probably has already heard your neo-Feminist perspective and wanted something else. Now you ruined it....grats.

Its this type of liberal idealism that really chaffs my behind. I realize that all this is what you were told in Gender Studies 101, I took that class too!

The reality the OP is seeing is that although she maybe fine with it, HIS friends and fam will give him endless grief about his de-masculinization. With the "vaginification" of Western society fully underway, be prepared for potential unintended consequences...

How was the helpful to the OP in any way whatsoever?

 

[LADoc00]

How was the helpful to the OP in any way whatsoever?

How was yours??

Her fears/concerns are valid. There is no easy solution to her problem. Most men would feel uncomfortable in such a situation, especially if they had NO career aspirations at that point.

This cant and wont be solved by your half-assed "love and equality will conquer all" approach to interpersonal relations. I applaud you for being a romantic dreamer, but hold back from infecting others with your naivete.

 

[LADoc00]

Wow, you're really asking a loaded question. Just to prepare you, take a gander at the "name change" thread, and you'll get a flavor for what the guys participating in this forum are like. Don't be discouraged, because by the looks of it, their odds are not good for expanding their gene pool anyway. Evolutionary negative selection, if you will.

I'm a physician in a competitive medical specialty, and my wife is in science. For some time, both of us were in academics, and neither of us made much money. My wife has since moved on to industry , and she's making a whole lot more money than I am, and I couldn't be happier! To tell you the truth, not all men are happy with this scenario. It has a lot to do with a man's sense of self-worth, confidence, and integrity. Many men.. well... are insecure and fall short. What you got to determine is whether your current boyfriend has the maturity to grow, and rise above his current insecurities. Your medical training is going to be rigorous, and you will need your partner to be supportive. Think seriously about this guy before entering into marrriage with him. You sound like a bright and intelligent woman. I'd advise telling your boyfriend to shape up (and don't settle for superficial platitiudes). If he doesn't make some serious amends, drop this low-hanging fruit and go for good stuff (believe me, they are out there).

Geeze, I dont who is worse, hardcore feminazis or the men that pander to feminazism. I would make a Kappo analogy but dont want to take this thread "nuclear" just yet.

Her BF doesnt need to shape up at all, you have no idea who he is so please stick to the reality rather than inventing it. I wonder if you hooked your current SO by being such a relentless sycophant.

 

[BlazerMed]

While I personally wouldn't care if my wife made more, I could never be a stay at home dad, and I'd probably hate putting up with even good-natured jabs from friends about it. There's no good way to go about it. If he's not comfortable with the situation, there's little you can do to force him into anything. We're stubborn creatures, if you constantly try to reassure him that it's ok that he makes less, you're going to be part of the problem. HE DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT. It's that plain, anyone that brings it up is obviously going to annoy him. Either he's going to have to make the concious decision to accept it, or he's going to reject it.

 

[OzDDS]

While I personally wouldn't care if my wife made more, I could never be a stay at home dad, and I'd probably hate putting up with even good-natured jabs from friends about it. There's no good way to go about it. If he's not comfortable with the situation, there's little you can do to force him into anything. We're stubborn creatures, if you constantly try to reassure him that it's ok that he makes less, you're going to be part of the problem. HE DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT. It's that plain, anyone that brings it up is obviously going to annoy him. Either he's going to have to make the concious decision to accept it, or he's going to reject it.

Exactly!

 

[futureneonateMD]

I guess that makes sense... I would hate someone always bringing up the fact that they make more too... so you guys are saying I should just leave him alone and let him make a decision without my input? that's gonna be hard, but i'll give it a try.

 

[Qtip96]

With the "vaginification" of Western society fully underway, be prepared for potential unintended consequences...

only vaginification i see are on you sh*theads, who are'nt MAN enough to take women making more than them.

 

[LADoc00]

only vaginification i see are on you sh*theads, who are'nt MAN enough to take women making more than them.

Interesting, your response so eloquently betrays the paucity of your thoughts and proof of my hypothesis by revealing your true nature of as a 150 pound walking, talking vagina, something out of a perverted sequel to "Little Shop of Horrors."

 

[BlazerMed]

I guess that makes sense... I would hate someone always bringing up the fact that they make more too... so you guys are saying I should just leave him alone and let him make a decision without my input? that's gonna be hard, but i'll give it a try.

I was a little over the top in my first post. I'm not saying completely leave him alone. I'm saying don't nag him. Communication is the foundation of a relationship, you have to be able to talk this out. Discuss every facet of the issue with him, but whatever you do, don't patronize him by saying stuff like "Oh you're just being silly, no one cares!" or "It's really not tha big of a deal, it's just money" or anything else of that nature.

Summary: Yes to talking, no to patronizing and nagging.

Also, you must be prepared to face the possible reality that he will never be comfortable with it. I'm sure you love him and deeply care about him, but however silly you might think his feelings on this are (not saying that you think it's silly) he has to be as comfortable with it as you do, and if he can never accomplish that, there's not future.

 

[cowbell]

Geeze, I dont who is worse, hardcore feminazis or the men that pander to feminazism. I would make a Kappo analogy but dont want to take this thread "nuclear" just yet.

Her BF doesnt need to shape up at all, you have no idea who he is so please stick to the reality rather than inventing it. I wonder if you hooked your current SO by being such a relentless sycophant.

I know enough about the BF to know that the OP has invested 4 years into a relationship with him. It is clear she has some interest in potentially salvaging this relationship or she wouldn't have posted anyway. I would agree that the scenario looks grim.

As for your p*ssy Kappo, I can take you anyplace and anytime. I'll take my kickboxing, Kali, and grappling training and crush your needle neck. I'll take evolutionary negative selection one extra step, extra fast.

As for my marriage, it is sublime. And yes, perhaps I do beg once in awhile .

 

[LADoc00]

As for your p*ssy Kappo, I can take you anyplace and anytime. I'll take my kickboxing, Kali, and grappling training and crush your needle neck. I'll take evolutionary negative selection one extra step, extra fast.
.

I know you are joking but threatening to beat someone's ass over the internet is technically illegal. In the current age, it would be regarded as a terrorist threat and you could lose your medical license and ruin your career, watch it. Im being friendly now. Seriously.

PS-yes yes Im sure you are the "masta cage fighter":

 

[cowbell]

I know you are joking but threatening to beat someone's ass over the internet is technically illegal. In the current age, it would be regarded as a terrorist threat and you could lose your medical license and ruin your career, watch it. Im being friendly now. Seriously.

PS-yes yes Im sure you are the "masta cage fighter":

Have to admit, that's damn funny. Touche.

P.S. Your threatening to "take it nuclear" or not, I could still take you... easily.

 

[Immuno-guy]

My wife makes twice what I do and when she finished her residency she'll make perhaps 8 times more. (PLEASE DONT TELL ME DOCTORS DON'T MAKE MUCH MONEY ANYMORE!)

I don't mind this at all. It will never be my money before of after divorce, such is nature of the legal system. I'm OK with that.

What pisses me off is when she mentions it, or her family does. It makes me think of divorce just to put an end to it.

Don't use the phrase insecure, it does not help. It's like him comforting you when you're unhappy by saying "oh, are you crying because your body is not all it used to be?".

Perhaps you should bring it up with his parents. Without him knowing.

 

[Qtip96]

Interesting, your response so eloquently betrays the paucity of your thoughts and proof of my hypothesis by revealing your true nature of as a 150 pound walking, talking vagina, something out of a perverted sequel to "Little Shop of Horrors."

you've got SOME freaky deaky imagination bub. i'd say your psyche has some SERIOUS oedipus issues compounded by clear psychological evidence of maternal abuse. you leave no doubt what's at the center of your imagination...

and for the OP, are you sure you want to take relationship advice from someone who spews garbage like this?

The sheer of absurdity of men walking willingly into the firing sights of feminist ballbusters and their goon squads of goose stepping law enforcement officers and Gestapo-esque family court systems, has me truly mystified. Has the world gone mad?

For all you men out there, I cannot think if a single reason why should submit and tie the not. The religious and traditional mores that bound such a convenant are in tatters and it has re-arisen like the Phoenix as a societal instrument of pure terror.

Run, run now and run fast.

 

[Redneck]

My background: Very young guy, about to start this fall, no spouse, but do have a g/f - so take my advice how you will

Coming from my own belief and understanding of other men I will say it is going to be a tough issue for him. I know I have much of the stereotyped male role built into my persona. The thought of having the position as main wage earner being usurped by the SO is unnerving. I would agree with the others to not mention it in a nagging or bragging sort of way ever. I believe it can be overcome by compensating for this void in some manner. How this could be done is the tricky part. Your goal would be to continue making him feel as though he is a Man. It could be as simple as letting him make most of the choices and final say in issues ranging from finances to where you go out to eat. Or it could be based more on the physical and how your body language communicates with him - your message should be that you need him and want him. These are things to consider for the long term.

Immediately I suggest looking him square in the eyes and tell him once. Only once. That he is stupid to think he'll be less of a man by not making more money. Then go on to describe how you need him in your life in ways that he can only comfort/please/protect/make you happy. Then finish with a blurb on how if he lets this get to him it will make him less of man by leaving then if he stayed. <-- This would work for me... Good luck.

Yes, your best bet is to use the fear of being less of a man, in his possibly leaving, against him.

 

[Qtip96]

With the "vaginification" of Western society fully underway, be prepared for potential unintended consequences...

tsk tsk tsk. sounding a bit bitter and edgy, aren't we? perhaps you are simply heartbroken from chasing college girls 10 years your junior...

Girlfriend who I have been seeing off and on for like a year who I was planning on getting engaged to (of course idiotic idea) sends me an email today that is going out on a date with a guy from out of town. She is hot, about 10 years younger (yeah I know, spare me) but is supposedly totally into me...

or maybe you've been watching too many Jane Goodall flicks?...

Basically I have social skills dealing with women at the prokaryotic level. Like an amoeba, I bump into them with Brownian motion hoping a baby amoeba will pop out, but that isnt working. Im watching Jane Goodall tapes hoping to learn something about mating from our furry monkey relatives.

come on, and fess up LADoc. your real idea of a perfect mate is something like this...

 

[LADoc00]

Holy cow, those quotes are ancient!!!!! Nice forensic computer work.

Primates own!

 

[FutureTeacher]

I'm not a man but I would think that he was planning on breaking it off anyways and this seemed the easiest way. It's not you-it's me.

 

[Qtip96]

Holy cow, those quotes are ancient!!!!!

not very old, but still very relevant.

so, are we to believe that you are cute, affectionate, and cuddly like this...

or more like an acerbic, paranoid, and persecutory misogynist? Like this?

I have to add that truly knowing someone is near impossible and the real character of most women is not shown until the divorce papers begin flying. I recently started a new job where pretty much all the partners are divorced and rather bitter about the whole thing, these are smart successful men used and abused by the system. I sure as hell dont need to walk down their path to learn their lessons.

Lets be honest with each other: marriage is scam and not just any scam, it's society's greatest, most potent trap. Federal income taxes is minor compared to massive financial harm caused by divorce and for what? Companionship? Please, what a joke, most married people dont even have regular sex after a few years.

Marriage was neccesary when women couldnt work outside the home and didnt have adequate education to take care of themselves and their kids...those conditions are gone now, more women are going to college than men.

Divorce induced suicide and drug use is epidemic, men's pension plans are being pillaged, their houses lost, their child visitation rights stripped and on top of it all they are saddled with the guilt of failure.

I cant think of a single reason to get married...

hey futureneonateMD, you should listen very carefully to LADocOO for his advice about relationships and marriage. he is really full of pearls here... well... he's really full of shomethin' all right.

 

[futureneonateMD]

lol.. thanks for the heads up

 

[OzDDS]

you should listen very carefully to LADocOO for his advice about relationships and marriage. he is really full of pearls here...

Well.. I think it is good to encourage someone and help them out with advice. But marriage isn't always blissful and "happily ever after".. So, why portray it that way?
At least LaDoc is pointing out some common problems. When about half of people who get married end up divorced.. I think its pretty damn relavant to bring up the concequences and explain what things are really like if this were to happen.

 

[Qtip96]

Well.. I think it is good to encourage someone and help them out with advice. But marriage isn't always blissful and "happily ever after".. So, why portray it that way? .

hmmm... good point. but i don't recollect ever having made such an assertion, do you?

hey futureneonateMD, OzDDS is another guy full of advice for intelligent women aspiring for great careers in medicine. he's a single college student hoping to apply for dentistry school.

Why would a man ever wish to legally bind himself to a (post-feminism/modern woman), a woman who's not really interested in taking his name, more interested in focusing on her career than supporting him and a potential family.. a woman who may possibly be more bossy, fickle, more careless/carefree in relationships.
If you are both professionals and don't want children then fine.. but then what's wrong with just dating very long term. Why do you need that piece of paper?

Men are men.. and its always been ingrained in us to find (at least for marriage sake) a woman who is less domineering (ie. Less masculine and more feminine), willing to support us in our careers and raise/care for a family. Men have always been the hunters women have always been the careers in every society around the world for hundreds of thousands of years, and in the past 60 years it’s all turned around. And good for them!
I’m not saying that I think women are inferior at doing any job out there. Sometimes women can do those jobs just as well or better then men. I’m just saying that most men find women who are career equals or higher than them sometimes physically attractive yes, but most usually don’t really see them as someone who they can envision as a potential future wife and mother.

What man would really want a domineering career minded woman for a wife and mother of his children.. unless of course.. she was rich and the man is poor. Women have always wanted to be in the positions in business/the career world that men have.. and now they have it. And guess what.. now they can have men who want them for just their money too! I guess what goes around comes around. .

so, OzDDS's advice for you to be happy is to choose a career that is "equal or lower" than your BF. since the BF doesn't have a career, ditch medical school so you can be more attractive to him.

i think the future OzDDS has painted for you is something like this:

yo OzDDS, when I was in college, I usually spent my time studying, having fun with friends, traveling the world, and living life... and NOT lurking around web forums giving (of all things) MARITAL advice!
THIS is no way for you to be living your life bub:

Oh BTW, since you've gone through the trouble of advertising your GPA, you may want to ask neonateMD for some studying advice

 

[OzDDS]

he's a single college student hoping to apply for dentistry school.

I do have a girlfriend, I'm a college graduate, and yes.. the dentistry part you got right.

so, OzDDS's advice for you to be happy is to choose a career that is "equal or lower" than your BF. since the BF doesn't have a career, ditch medical school so you can be more attractive to him.

No she doesn't.. I'm sure her hubby wouldn't mind being supported and taking care of the kids.. Go for it!

yo OzDDS, when I was in college, I usually spent my time studying, having fun with friends, traveling the world, and living life... and NOT lurking around web forums

Yeah... exactly. and NOW that YOU'RE old and married thats when you decide to spend YOUR free time lurking around web forums picking fights with people.. I shouldn't be laughing.. its pretty sad actually.

 

[Qtip96]

I do have a girlfriend.

whoa! sorry about that. it sounds very gratifying...

2 weeks ago...

I've never been married, but my health tends to be better when I'm single actually. I'm so busy usually with school and work, that in my free time I enjoy cooking and working out, but I find that when I have a clingy girlfriend that takes up most of that free time.. I end up skipping gym sessions to go shopping and/or spend time sitting on our asses spending "quality time" with the significant other.. and I get more "unhealthy" and stressed out.

as for my sad life...

and NOW that YOU'RE old and married thats when you decide to spend YOUR free time lurking around web forums picking fights with people.. I shouldn't be laughing.. its pretty sad actually.

pitiful comeback bub... simply pitiful.

hmmm... i've got an amazing and gratifying medical career, a very nice home, and an unbelievable family life. i think i've earned the right to spend my free moments looking out for the interests of intelligent, career-minded women while combating the opinions of narrow-minded and chauvinistic neanderthals such as yourself. what do you get out of it? pig-headed inferiority-complex-ridden men of the world unite?

but... *yawn* i grow weary of your blathering.

 

[OzDDS]

i think i've earned the right to spend my free moments looking out for the interests of intelligent, career-minded women

I'm sure your wife is very happy and proud of you for spending your free moments on the internet all day.. you're on here more than I am and I'm as you said.. a young stupid loser college guy.

If you're so busy and happy with your marriage.. then get off the internet and go spend your few free moments with your family.

 

[Qtip96]

I'm sure your wife is very happy and proud of you for spending your free moments on the internet all day...

well, she DOES think it's kindof stupid.

you guys don't know how bad of a showing you are making for the entire male gender. take your keen mind and look between the lines of the recent threads here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=294305
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=294531
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=118464

the boyfriends/husbands of these professional women are proving themsleves to be immature, emotionally scarred, and untrustworthy partners. smart women will make their choices accordingly, irrespective of what you or i say.

a young stupid loser college guy

your words, not mine!

If you're so busy and happy with your marriage.. then get off the internet and go spend your few free moments with your family.

wow! dude! the wisest words i have heard come form you!
i will take your advise.

have a great 4th of july weekend. ciao!

 

[Qtip96]

a young stupid loser college guy.

oh yes, BTW, nice of you to enclose the self portrait.

you look very cute in track gear!

 

[Qtip96]

oh yes, BTW, nice of you to enclose a self portrait.

you look very cute in track gear!

one last thing.

the definition of "******" means:
"to slow up especially by preventing or hindering advance or development"

which is what you guys are trying to do to women...

so who's the ****** now?

ciao!

 

[Nocturnius]

Ouch! This thread is fiery.

First let me state: I am not a feminist. I actually dislike many feminists because they've lost sight of what the original concept was all about - women are no longer satisfied with being equal to men. Now they want to be BETTER. They have the ALMIGHTY UTERUS, so they can do ANYTHING better than men. Give 'em a gun, they'll prove they are not just as good, they are BETTER.

Yeah, you can tell I have a problem with that.

[Please note here that I am female myself.]

At the same time, however, I can't stand traditionalists. If I heard one of my fiancé's friends or family members saying anything to him about me aspiring for a better career, I'd probably tell them never to step foot in my apartment or call again. How dare they, period. (Luckily this is a situation I don't have to worry about - his friends and family all think it's great and think he should be proud of me.)

The problem with the view of "the man should make the most money and the wife should either make significantly less or not work at all and stay home with the babies" is that not all men go to college and get good careers. So what, because your husband only makes $6.50 an hour, you shouldn't work because that would "de-masculinize" him? You two should struggle to pay bills and keep a roof over your heads because his friends might make quips about him not "wearing the pants" in the relationship? Seriously, guys, get over it. This needs to quit being about "I'm the man of the relationship!" and "men hold us women back!" If one of you has a better chance of achieving a better career, then you should for the well-being of both of you, be you man or wife in the situation.

People need to get over tradition and pride and start thinking logically: it shouldn't matter whether it's the husband or wife putting food on the table. It should just matter that it's there.

 

[Qtip96]

Ouch! This thread is fiery.

deeply sorry... must seem like senseless argumentum ad hominem.

though i'm not fond of militant feminists, i can't stand it when guys don't give women a fair shake. a career in medicine is challenging enough without having to deal with sexist hogwash.

 

[OzDDS]

deeply sorry... must seem like senseless argumentum ad hominem.

though i'm not fond of militant feminists, i can't stand it when guys don't give women a fair shake. a career in medicine is challenging enough without having to deal with sexist hogwash.

First.. that was your photo! Hence your the one who keeps picking fights with me.. not the other way around.

Second. I have never said that women can't have a great career in medicine.. for the 101th time!!

I've simply stated that I don't feel that a woman can have a husband who works full time and be a neurosurgeon and have 3 kids without the quality of one of those three things suffering.. her marriage, her relationship with her kids, or her career! (to some extent you're going to have to compromise something!!!)

....and if you've "chosen" to be a mother.. then I would "Hope" that your kids would be more important than your career!

 

[OzDDS]

Ouch! This thread is fiery.

First let me state: I am not a feminist. I actually dislike many feminists because they've lost sight of what the original concept was all about - women are no longer satisfied with being equal to men. Now they want to be BETTER. They have the ALMIGHTY UTERUS, so they can do ANYTHING better than men. Give 'em a gun, they'll prove they are not just as good, they are BETTER.

Yeah, you can tell I have a problem with that.

[Please note here that I am female myself.]

At the same time, however, I can't stand traditionalists. If I heard one of my fiancé's friends or family members saying anything to him about me aspiring for a better career, I'd probably tell them never to step foot in my apartment or call again. How dare they, period. (Luckily this is a situation I don't have to worry about - his friends and family all think it's great and think he should be proud of me.)

The problem with the view of "the man should make the most money and the wife should either make significantly less or not work at all and stay home with the babies" is that not all men go to college and get good careers. So what, because your husband only makes $6.50 an hour, you shouldn't work because that would "de-masculinize" him? You two should struggle to pay bills and keep a roof over your heads because his friends might make quips about him not "wearing the pants" in the relationship? Seriously, guys, get over it. This needs to quit being about "I'm the man of the relationship!" and "men hold us women back!" If one of you has a better chance of achieving a better career, then you should for the well-being of both of you, be you man or wife in the situation.

People need to get over tradition and pride and start thinking logically: it shouldn't matter whether it's the husband or wife putting food on the table. It should just matter that it's there.

I agree with everything you've said.. but I have known friends of my parents.. (female docs) who have have been in this position for a while and then after a few years of marriage dumped their blue collar husband for some male doc they worked with at the hospital..

This is from a different thread.. but what do you think about what is in bold below:

It works well in our house since my husband has his (ironman) and I have mine (medicine). I know it doesn't work this way for everyone, but just saying it is possible...

You guys have kids? Sounds like you have a nice thing going. You have someone who is attractive with a nice body who takes care of themselves (nice armcandy) and you can make the $$ and support the family. Maybe he can be the stay at home dad and take care of the kids. Hey.. if you're happy with that. That's awesome..

Most women like the sound of that scenario.. (the typical male role). But, when they actually have it.. I think many find it fun for a while.. but in the long run. Those pastures are not that green after all..
Many women end up longing for a man who can actually bring home some $$ of their own and relieve them of the burden of supporting the family, so they can enjoy time with the kids themselves instead of staying on call at the hospital all week. And when you want to retire at the age of 55.. don't expect your husband to be able to pick up the slack on the bills etc. You may have to work well into your late 60s (many docs do these days) with reduced reimbursements etc. The role sounds nice when your young.. but not always that nice when your in it.. your burnt out, you have arthritis, and you never see your kids.

Also, if you look at % of doctors who are married to other Doctors (men vs women) More female docs are married to other male docs.. than men.
So.. Some female docs who have the arm candy husband who is a stay at home dad.. then they get tired of the job and burnt out after a few years.. then they divorce hubby for a $$ upgrade and marry a fellow doctor colleage who they spend a lot of time with at the hospital.

Women are more likely to marry up than men.
This isn't the rule.. but I know this happens to many female docs. I hope you're not one of them and can hold out if this is what you want.
Good Luck!

Peace.


Another thing I might want to point out.. is that if you are a physician and you are pulling in 200k+ and your hubby who is a teacher and makes 35k per year.. (depending on what state your in) You're tax bracket could actually be such that unless your hubby made at least 60k+.. You may actually be loosing money by your husband working while paying for after school care.. etc.
Even if your hubby had a job.. (if it was minimum wage) if he gave it up and spent that time taking care of the kids and cleaning house, and cooking. You're probably financially better off actually!

 

[Doula-2-OB]

At the risk of putting myself between LADoc's cross hairs, I have this to say...

He's telling you that he has boundaries.

He doesn't have to change. You don't either. A few options here:

A) He just can't live with it and moves on.
B) You can't live with it and move on.
C) You tell him how you feel and he decides to change his thinking, and you stay together.
D) He tells you how he feels and you choose to change your thinking, and you stay together.

It isn't about right or wrong, or feminism or masculinity- it's about boundaries. He's telling you what he needs in his partnership to feel safe/complete/whatever, and in the process you're finding out that it's not something that fits in with your grand vision. It sucks. Sorry you're dealing with this, but better now than when you're married. This is probably a major reason why med students break up during school, I'm betting.

 

[Qtip96]

At the risk of putting myself between LADoc's cross hairs...

it is unfortunate that people should fear vicious reprisals by LADoc.

he has a noticeably damaged psyche, as evidenced by his imagination's being plagued by militant feminazis, gorillas, 150 lb walking talking vaginas, and his penchant for frequent Tourrette's-like ballistic retorts.

clearly a product from generations of consangiunity, compounded by maternal neglect, and frequent paternal buggery. given the content of his multiple posts and his general ineptitude with male-female interactions (with exception of watching pole-dancing), LADoc's gene pool is thankfully not likely to expand.

 

[ralf]

Good riddance! I say drop him now. You may have noticed that there is no shortage of guys in the world. While I agree with the earlier post about telling him only once that you love him and it doesn't matter to you, it will always matter to him. As a married male I can tell you that there is plenty else to argue about other than who makes how much and how. If he's really worried about money he should go into real estate investment, investment banking, running a crack house, or generally keeping his pimp hand strong.

If you must, tell him he doesn't have to move if he doesn't want to. You understand. Tell him you'll send him postcards and e-mail when you get the chance. Then go and start med school and be excellent. You can come back and see him during school breaks. Eventually, he'll cheat on you because you're too far away and - get this- HE WILL HAVE BROKEN UP WITH YOU! Why? Because he know a good thing when she's sleeping in the bed next to him. He doesn't understand he's thinking like a twelve year old and chances of his improvement don't look good.

You don't have time for people like this in your life. Don't undermine your future by hanging out in a deadend relationship. If you're starting school in a year you won't have time for people who aren't in your corner 100%.

Maximize your future, scrape off the dead weight today!

 

[LADoc00]

it is unfortunate that people should fear vicious reprisals by LADoc.

Wierd you are so obsessed with me, I think you are gay...I *might* let you buy me drinks if you are cute. If you ask real nice that is.

 

[ralf]

Wierd you are so obsessed with me, I think you are gay...I *might* let you buy me drinks if you are cute. If you ask real nice that is.

Hello Everyone, As a wife, full time worker and mother of two I felt compelled to respond to some of the craziness going on here. (Also, I've been a divorce lawyer so I have some broader perspective on these things.)
First, marriage is hard. It is hard to put someone else's feelings ahead of your own. It is hard to be 100% supportive of your spouse when you have your own needs and desires.
Second, parenting is hard. All of the above is particularly hard if you have children. Suddenly, your primary decision isn't where to have dinner or what movie to catch or whether to study, but how to be lovingly responsible for human beings who are completely dependent upon you. Frankly, at that point, if you are a mature parent, it's not all about you, in fact it's rarely about you. This, people, is about having vomit in your hair as I did this morning at 2:00 a.m. This is about nursing your baby and crying because you have to go to work in three hours and you haven't had more than four hours of sleep in a row for a year and a half. This is about changing crap filled diapers and living your life as a human napkin because you're smeared stem to stern with crusty baby cereal.
Third, dealing with all of this well, requires a shift in mentality from the idea that you're a fully autonomous human being to the idea that you, your spouse and the kids are dependent on each other. Every decision needs to be a balance between the needs of the family and your own need for self fulfillment or mental health with more weight given to the needs of the family than anything else.
Fourth, lots of marriages fail because one or both partners never makes this shift. After watching tons of people get divorced I think this is the main problem. Sure, lots of people are just dinguses, but usually the main problem is that one or both partners can't give up their ego needs to have eyecandy, sexual options, a high status job, emotional control or whatever it is that keeps them from being a fully engaged partner in nurturing the relationship, caring for the kids, cleaning the house and otherwise showing up.
Fifth, the main reason I think people have the above mentioned problem is because they have unreasonable and ridiculous notions about what marriage is about. Biggest misconception? That you can plan your life and your marriage like a college semester. People plan to have a beautiful wedding, a blissful marriage, perfect children, a fantastic job and a wonderful retirement. This is completely unrealistic because life has a way of slapping you in the face. So fine, you marry the guy with the perfect job, what if he's in a car accident and completely disabled? So you're the perfect age to have children, great, what if it turns out you can't have them? So you're on track to finish med school in the next two years and boom, the little E.P.T. test turns up two pink lines? What if your beautiful career is derailed by the death or illness of your child? So you've saved a hefty little bit of cash, what if the stock market goes bad? What if one of you has to give up their job to care for a child with a disability? What if your parents get ill? What if your spouse nearly dies in childbirth? These things can and do happen to people and some of them are going to happen to you.
Sixth, considering all the above, when deciding who to choose as a partner, cash, profession and status should be the least of your worries. choose the person who shows up. Choose the person who likes you on your fattest days. Choose the person who stays calm and collected in life's storms. Choose the person who pays attention to the things you care about. Choose the person who respects your family. Choose the person who loves to see you talk about your passions more than your possessions. Choose the person who doesn't care about how much money you make or that you are or are not a doctor or a dentist or lawyer. Choose the person who can take turns following and supporting. Choose the person you think you could adore even when they're covered in baby ****.
As for you, LA DOC00, I say this with all the love my little Buddhist/Christian heart can muster. I don't think you're the kind of person who shows up. I'm not saying you won't become that person, or that life won't help you find some generosity of spirit or ability to share your life in the way that marriage and love require. I'm just saying you aren't there now and that you're 100% right to stay away from marriage and all its accompanying craziness. Good for you!
As for the rest of you, I wish you tons of happiness and the love you can only know staring blearily at your snoring spouse across the sleeping bodies of your children.

 

[LADoc00]

Your reponse is way too long, tighten it and use more pics, realize our readers have the attention spans of gnats.

For instance, here is one for Qtip96:

 

[SaraL124]

Right on ralf!

 

[MSc44]

I have a dilemma... My boyfriend and I are both graduating from undergrad next year, and i am going to medical school after graduation. We have been together for 4 years, and have always talked about getting married one day. Now he is saying that he's had thoughts of breaking up with me beacuse he feels like he is holding me back. He said that he doesn't know if he can handle the fact that I will be making more money than him after becoming a MD. I really think it has more to do with the fact that he doesn't know what he is going to do after graduation, and his family laughs at the fact that he may become "a doctor's husband." So my question is, are there any men who would be uncomfortable with their wife making more than them? Or are there any that are actually in that situation that can give me advice on how to get it through to my bf that money doesn't matter?

I think its part cultural, env, and insecurity, as well as what type of family he was brought up in.
Looking back to my maybe more immature days, i can relate to your BF being freaked out by this. I have with work gotten past this however. He needs to grow up a bit and find somthing he is passhionate about. I am 24 and my GF, 26 makes more money then me. We went to college together and although i had a higher GPA and now have more education (MS) then her she makes lots more them i ( i do molecular research, and she is a high school AP biology teacher here on long island were the teachers make over 100K a year ). Since i will one day make more then most people im not too worried. But the fact that the woman i am with right now, makes more money then me, does not bother me.........he needs time to get over this, or maybe even a little psychological help ( honistly nothing wrong with talking to someone it helps )

 

[LADoc00]

I think its part cultural, env, and insecurity, as well as what type of family he was brought up in.
Looking back to my maybe more immature days, i can relate to your BF being freaked out by this. I have with work gotten past this however. He needs to grow up a bit and find somthing he is passhionate about. I am 24 and my GF, 26 makes more money then me. We went to college together and although i had a higher GPA and now have more education (MS) then her she makes lots more them i ( i do molecular research, and she is a high school AP biology teacher here on long island were the teachers make over 100K a year ). \)

That number is very hard to believe, at 26 there is no way she is ANYWHERE near that figure. I call shenanigans, pure and simple.

 

[Qtip96]

Wierd you are so obsessed with me, I think you are gay...I *might* let you buy me drinks if you are cute. If you ask real nice that is.

hmmm... i must've touched a nerve...

let's delve a little deeper into LADoc's subconscious... wherein lies his insecurities? what is his obsession???

I was kidding...and yes, my avatar is more gay b/c Brad Pitt is way hotter than 2 unicorns.

he has a noticeably damaged psyche, as evidenced by his imagination's being plagued by militant feminazis, gorillas, 150 lb walking talking vaginas, and his penchant for frequent Tourrette's-like ballistic retorts.

clearly a product from generations of consangiunity, compounded by maternal neglect, and frequent paternal buggery...

given the degree of psychological damage, perhaps i underestimated a bit...

c'mon LADoc, stop struggling with your identity... embrace it!

 

[Qtip96]

...marriage is hard. It is hard to put someone else's feelings ahead of your own. It is hard to be 100% supportive of your spouse when you have your own needs and desires....
...when deciding who to choose as a partner, cash, profession and status should be the least of your worries. choose the person who shows up.

word.

 

[LADoc00]

Christ! Dude do you have an entire IT department at Microsoft dedicated to replying on SDN!!! Hats off to ya, but you still are as gay as can be! Pull those rubber anal beads out and just admit your gayness...

Look familiar Qtip?? I think you slept with this guy last New Years. Good job.

 

[Qtip96]

Christ! Dude do you have an entire IT department at Microsoft dedicated to replying on SDN!!! Hats off to ya, but you still are as gay as can be! Pull those rubber anal beads out and just admit your gayness...

Look familiar Qtip?? I think you slept with this guy last New Years. Good job.

feeble response... quite feeble...

little do you know, your familiarity with nomenclature such as "anal beads" and intimate knowledge of alternative porn media such as "Capt. Phallus the Gay Pirate" betrays the deep yearnings of your pysche.

i sense some tension in your voice...

how long has it been since you've had any?
it is advisable that you indulge youself on your habitual self-pleasuring ASAP!
before you pop some neurons in that myopic head of yours...

doctors orders!

 

[breck]

I have a dilemma... My boyfriend and I are both graduating from undergrad next year, and i am going to medical school after graduation. We have been together for 4 years, and have always talked about getting married one day. Now he is saying that he's had thoughts of breaking up with me beacuse he feels like he is holding me back. He said that he doesn't know if he can handle the fact that I will be making more money than him after becoming a MD. I really think it has more to do with the fact that he doesn't know what he is going to do after graduation, and his family laughs at the fact that he may become "a doctor's husband." So my question is, are there any men who would be uncomfortable with their wife making more than them? Or are there any that are actually in that situation that can give me advice on how to get it through to my bf that money doesn't matter?

I would not be uncomfortable with my wife making more money than me one bit. I have been living with my g/f for about five years now and she has a trust that is fatter than Roseanne Barr's ass. I have never felt insecure or emasculated by this. Unfortuntely this is not the result of my g/f having a sit down with me and telling me "Don't worry you'll always be a real man in my eyes". So why am I comfortable with it?? Upbringing!! My father died when I was young and my mom took care of my siblings and I. She was a business woman and she had a very high position in gigantic company. As a result, she made more money than most men I knew of, and most men she ever dated. As far as I was concerned this didn't take away from their manhood it just meant my mom was accomplished. The only ones I ever felt she was superior to were the a--holes or the ones who were trying to use her for her money. The good men, who were nice to my siblings and I, and capable of managing their own money always got my respect. The reason for this was that I constantly had my Mom telling me to judge people on the quality of person they were rather than based on what they did or how much money they had.

So the real point here is that I don't think you are going to be able to "get it through to your b/f that money doesn't matter". It doesn't matter to you but the problem is it matters to him. He understands you don't feel superior to him but that doesn't prevent him from feeling inferior. Based on the comments his family has made he has been instilled with the notion that being with an accomplished woman makes him less of a man. This is called BAGGAGE. Some baggage is manageable and some isn't. It seems like this will be a deal breaker for you b/c you aren't about to give up your career for him. (I wouldn't either.)

I think the biggest question your issue raises is whether or not your success is really the problem in your relationship. I saw your MDapplicants profile. What the hell did your b/f think you've been doing all this stuff for for the past 3 years??? He's obviously known for a long time that you wanted to be a doc. Did he feel emasculated by your GPA or any of the other work you have done?? Why has this problem just come to the surface now?? My opinion is that this guy is ready to end the relationship and there is more to it than the fact that you are going to be a doc. If he really really loved you he wouldn't give a **** what his family thought. Think of how many people get involved in, and stay in, relationships that have strong disapproval from their family and in some cases society as well. True love won't be broken. I agree with a previous poster, this guy is giving you the "It's not you, it's me routine" b/c he has known for a long time this is what he is getting into. In addition to this you haven't even gotten into med-school yet. According to your profile you don't have MCAT scores. Maybe it is not up to date but it's not like you got in and now he's freaking out b/c all of your dreams have just become a reality. He wants to jump ship. I'd do a lot of thinking before fighting for this guy. The money/prestige etc etc issue is going to be with this guy forever. Of course it's always easier to give advice than it is to take advice. Best wishes