Native American but not considered URM

[Serene124]

Good Evening fellow SDN'ers,

I'm just a lurker, but I haven't really found the answer to my question so I had to ask! This is not a troll whatsoever, in fact it's simply a yes or no question.

Throughout my childhood I was considered Native American. That's only because my father was 75% NA. I was never able to enroll in a tribe, neither were my siblings because my parents split when I was 6 y/o. ( My father has been out of the picture for a little over 19 years. ) Even after the split, my mother always made us check the NA and white box, but whenever we would get mail or I'd get letters from my school counselors in regards to scholarships for NA, my mother would disregard them because she didn't want to register us. I really didn't know anything about my NA background, up until HS when I was invited to a powwow by my cousins. Although I didn't go, I did my research and was astonished by the culture and EVERYTHING. You could only imagine how upset I was with my mother, for not allowing me to learn more about the NA blood running through my veins. But she had her reasons.

I have continued to do my own research. I did learn that my father was from the Cherokee tribe, which my uncle told me. At that point I was in my late teens and didn't know if I could register on the tribe roll and get a cool CDIB or Tribal ID. WELP, I was right. I couldn't. Long story short... I needed my fathers help and I sure as hell was not going to ask for his help.

So ever since HS, I have always checked the NA and white box. I don't necessarily look the part. Well I kind of do, ehhh, it's a 50/50. I also started volunteering at a NA clinic but also a clinic for the underserved population.

With all that said, I know on AMCAS there's a section where we check boxes. Since I always check white and NA,( I'll obviously be doing that) I do not want that to be something that will limit my chances of getting accepted. I know many " unethical " people will check it to get a URM boost, but I never checked the URM box and I don't need the boost since I have stellar stats. I just don't want adcoms to think I'm lying just because I don't have a tribal ID or a CDIB.


PS. Please don't tell me I'm only doing it to get a URM boost, because I'm not. As mentioned above, I never checked the URM box.

STATS: cgpa:3.7 sgpa: 4.0 MCAT: 516 -- Engineering major with a minor in chem

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[Serene124]

I know a few faculty members who might be able help: @Goro @gyngyn @LizzyM

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Good Evening fellow SDN'ers,

I'm just a lurker, but I haven't really found the answer to my question so I had to ask! This is not a troll whatsoever, in fact it's simply a yes or no question.

Throughout my childhood I was considered Native American. That's only because my father was 75% NA. I was never able to enroll in a tribe, neither were my siblings because my parents split when I was 6 y/o. ( My father has been out of the picture for a little over 19 years. ) Even after the split, my mother always made us check the NA and white box, but whenever we would get mail or I'd get letters from my school counselors in regards to scholarships for NA, my mother would disregard them because she didn't want to register us. I really didn't know anything about my NA background, up until HS when I was invited to a powwow by my cousins. Although I didn't go, I did my research and was astonished by the culture and EVERYTHING. You could only imagine how upset I was with my mother, for not allowing me to learn more about the NA blood running through my veins. But she had her reasons.

I have continued to do my own research. I did learn that my father was from the Cherokee tribe, which my uncle told me. At that point I was in my late teens and didn't know if I could register on the tribe roll and get a cool CDIB or Tribal ID. WELP, I was right. I couldn't. Long story short... I needed my fathers help and I sure as hell was not going to ask for his help.

So ever since HS, I have always checked the NA and white box. I don't necessarily look the part. Well I kind of do, ehhh, it's a 50/50. I also started volunteering at a NA clinic but also a clinic for the underserved population.

With all that said, I know on AMCAS there's a section where we check boxes. Since I always check white and NA,( I'll obviously be doing that) I do not want that to be something that will limit my chances of getting accepted. I know many " unethical " people will check it to get a URM boost, but I never checked the URM box and I don't need the boost since I have stellar stats. I just don't want adcoms to think I'm lying just because I don't have a tribal ID or a CDIB.


PS. Please don't tell me I'm only doing it to get a URM boost, because I'm not. As mentioned above, I never checked the URM box.

STATS: cgpa:3.7 sgpa: 4.0 MCAT: 516 -- Engineering major with a minor in chem

Check the box if you consider yourself Native American. If/When you are asked you say exactly what you wrote here, seems completely legitimate. If you act cagey or defensive about it people will think you're being deceptive, though, so make sure you're comfortable discussing it if you check the box.

 

[Goro]

Good Evening fellow SDN'ers,

I'm just a lurker, but I haven't really found the answer to my question so I had to ask! This is not a troll whatsoever, in fact it's simply a yes or no question.

Throughout my childhood I was considered Native American. That's only because my father was 75% NA. I was never able to enroll in a tribe, neither were my siblings because my parents split when I was 6 y/o. ( My father has been out of the picture for a little over 19 years. ) Even after the split, my mother always made us check the NA and white box, but whenever we would get mail or I'd get letters from my school counselors in regards to scholarships for NA, my mother would disregard them because she didn't want to register us. I really didn't know anything about my NA background, up until HS when I was invited to a powwow by my cousins. Although I didn't go, I did my research and was astonished by the culture and EVERYTHING. You could only imagine how upset I was with my mother, for not allowing me to learn more about the NA blood running through my veins. But she had her reasons.

I have continued to do my own research. I did learn that my father was from the Cherokee tribe, which my uncle told me. At that point I was in my late teens and didn't know if I could register on the tribe roll and get a cool CDIB or Tribal ID. WELP, I was right. I couldn't. Long story short... I needed my fathers help and I sure as hell was not going to ask for his help.

So ever since HS, I have always checked the NA and white box. I don't necessarily look the part. Well I kind of do, ehhh, it's a 50/50. I also started volunteering at a NA clinic but also a clinic for the underserved population.

With all that said, I know on AMCAS there's a section where we check boxes. Since I always check white and NA,( I'll obviously be doing that) I do not want that to be something that will limit my chances of getting accepted. I know many " unethical " people will check it to get a URM boost, but I never checked the URM box and I don't need the boost since I have stellar stats. I just don't want adcoms to think I'm lying just because I don't have a tribal ID or a CDIB.


PS. Please don't tell me I'm only doing it to get a URM boost, because I'm not. As mentioned above, I never checked the URM box.

STATS: cgpa:3.7 sgpa: 4.0 MCAT: 516 -- Engineering major with a minor in chem

Without a tribal card, and certainly without any service to NA populations, you'll just come off as yet another Caucasian who magically discovers their NA roots upon applying to med school.

As such, I can't recommend checking the URM box. One SDNers had a story very much like yours, and had some 20 IIs 19 immediate rejects following interviews, and later but a single accept. The latter was NOT due to anything URM related.

Your app alone will speak much louder than the URM box. You're in the Top ~5% of all applicants!

 

[Serene124]

Without a tribal card, and certainly without any service to NA populations, you'll just come off as yet another Caucasian who magically discovers their NA roots upon applying to med school.

As such, I can't recommend checking the URM box. One SDNers had a story very much like yours, and had some 20 IIs 19 immediate rejects following interviews, and later but a single accept. The latter was NOT due to anything URM related.

Your app alone will speak much louder than the URM box. You're in the Top ~5% of all applicants!

Thank you for your input. Just curious, I was not going to check the URM box at all. I simply wanted to portray the fact that I am NA and white. But if you think that it would be held against me, can't I address it in a secondary letter. Or can't I address it in an interview. Would I still come across as unethical? I was only going to check NA and white, only because I have been doing that for all my life and I didn't know if would limit my chances of an acceptance in MS. Aside from that, I do have community service hours that are only for a NA clinic.


Also, as an adcom, if someone who apply's with my stats and does check the NA and white box, would they really think we are using it for a "URM boost?" If I don't check NA in my amcas app but later down the road check NA and white on my census, that would make me a liar.

 

[Goro]

Thank you for your input. Just curious, I was not going to check the URM box at all. I simply wanted to portray the fact that I am NA and white. But if you think that it would be held against me, can't I address it in a secondary letter. Or can't I address it in an interview. Would I still come across as unethical? I was only going to check NA and white, only because I have been doing that for all my life and I didn't know if would limit my chances of an acceptance in MS. Aside from that, I do have community service hours that are only for a NA clinic.


Also, as an adcom, if someone who apply's with my stats and does check the NA and white box, would they really think we are using it for a "URM boost?" If I don't check NA in my amcas app but later down the road check NA and white on my census, that would make me a liar.

I strongly recommend that despite the pride you have in your ancestry, that you minimize risk. Unfortunately, too many unscrupulous people have ruined this venue for you.

 

[Serene124]

Check the box if you consider yourself Native American. If/When you are asked you say exactly what you wrote here, seems completely legitimate. If you act cagey or defensive about it people will think you're being deceptive, though, so make sure you're comfortable discussing it if you check the box.

I am considered NA because of my father. So I do consider myself NA. I wasn't fortunate enough to have a tribal ID like my cousins, but I would still always consider myself NA. I just didn't want adcoms to think I'm pulling the " URM boost card" I never check the URM box on my application and I won't.

 

[Serene124]

I strongly recommend that despite the pride you have in your ancestry, that you minimize risk. Unfortunately, too many unscrupulous people have ruined this venue for you.

I completely agree. I don't want to risk looking unethical, but since a lot of people have been playing with the system, I do get why adcoms are strict. But if I don't check NA, and down the road I happen to check NA ( because it's a habit ) would that backfire in MS? Would this one thing make me cautious about all the other apps I fill out in the future? The main fear I have is, when I do get accepted to a MS and I accidentally check NA, will adcoms red flag me?

 

[Goro]

I completely agree. I don't want to risk looking unethical, but since a lot of people have been playing with the system, I do get why adcoms are strict. But if I don't check NA, and down the road I happen to check NA ( because it's a habit ) would that backfire in MS? Would this one thing make me cautious about all the other apps I fill out in the future? The main fear I have is, when I do get accepted to a MS and I accidentally check NA, will adcoms red flag me?

You're assuming people will have access to your med records in this regard. They won't.

 

[LizzyM]

Choose not to reply. That way no one can accuse you of playing the race card. You'll get in on your own merits. If you check the box later on other forms, no one can say you lied on one form or the other.

You can certainly list your volunteer service on the appliation and volunteering with a native american population might lead to a conversation in an interview that can do you a lot of good. You should tell the story like this... your father is 3/4rds NA and you would qualify for a tribal card if he would sign off but an accrimonyous split on the part of your parents and estrangement for almost 2 decades has not made that possible. That said, you do identify with your native heritage and have been honored to have the opportunity to be of service to that community.

 

[JPmoleymole]

This will come across as very politically incorrect, but do you look white or do you look Native American?

 

[theKingLT]

I'm curious, why do you say your NA but not URM? I thought all NA's were URM. I understand not checking the box because of the chance it will hurt your app, but I don't understand how you consider yourself NA but not URM

 

[ndafife]

This will come across as very politically incorrect, but do you look white or do you look Native American?

What in your mind does a Native American look like?

EDIT
For the sake of not derailing anything, a tribal registration card matters so much more than any "appearance" when claiming NA status, especially for schools/scholarships that take a focus on NA health

 

[JPmoleymole]

What in your mind does a Native American look like?

EDIT
For the sake of not derailing anything, a tribal registration card matters so much more than any "appearance" when claiming NA status, especially for schools/scholarships that take a focus on NA health

It depends what tribe and area of America the person is from.

I’ve spent a signifiant amount of time only at a Lakota reservation, so my viewpoint is limited.

However, it would be very rare to have traditional Western Europe features (what are typically thought of as “white” features)

Unfortunately, humans judge a lot based of looks, if OP doesn’t have a tribal or CDIB card it would not be a smart move to claim native ancestry. If that is not the case, it could be a different story

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

I strongly recommend that despite the pride you have in your ancestry, that you minimize risk. Unfortunately, too many unscrupulous people have ruined this venue for you.

There he is: https://nypost.com/2015/04/12/mindy-kalings-brother-explains-why-he-pretended-to-be-black/

 

[Serene124]

I'm curious, why do you say your NA but not URM? I thought all NA's were URM. I understand not checking the box because of the chance it will hurt your app, but I don't understand how you consider yourself NA but not URM

I don't consider myself URM because I was never raised NA. I may have checked the box my entire life, but I recently just learned about my ancestry. From the stories I have heard and read online about some NA lifestyle, was not the lifestyle I had. I was never raised in the reserves nor had issues growing up, I was raised by my SUPER white family. And just because I am part NA and white, doesn't really portray URM, for me. But let's say my father was still in the picture and I was raised NA and explored that side a little more, then I'd fursure classify as URM. I just check NA and White because that's who I am. Would I still help my fellow NA? HECK YES! I'm more than ready to help people from my tribe ( ... my fathers ) and other tribes!.

This will come across as very politically incorrect, but do you look white or do you look Native American?

It's 50/50... Some NA would be able to tell I'm NA, but then again I think the only reason for that would be, because my father's side is well known in the Cherokee tribe. But other than that, I have light green eyes and black hair, so I think I look more Caucasian than NA.

 

[LizzyM]

e my father's side is well known in the Cherokee tribe.

Flash forward 10 years. You are setting up a practice in an area with a large population of Cherokee. Would those people see you, and trust you, as one of their own?

Native Americans are under-represented in the profession of medicine given the size of the NA population. That fact has nothing to do with anyone's personal ancestry. It is just a fact. Getting more people who identify as NA into the profession of medicine is a goal of the medical profession and the administrators of the medical schools.

I still think that you might be best off chosing not to reply to that question about race but if you have been checking the box on census documents all these years as white + NA, and then not identifying as NA when you are a physician, you are perpetuating the appearance of too few NA in medicine for the number of NA in the population.

 

[rororochambeau]

Good Evening fellow SDN'ers,

I'm just a lurker, but I haven't really found the answer to my question so I had to ask! This is not a troll whatsoever, in fact it's simply a yes or no question.

Throughout my childhood I was considered Native American. That's only because my father was 75% NA. I was never able to enroll in a tribe, neither were my siblings because my parents split when I was 6 y/o. ( My father has been out of the picture for a little over 19 years. ) Even after the split, my mother always made us check the NA and white box, but whenever we would get mail or I'd get letters from my school counselors in regards to scholarships for NA, my mother would disregard them because she didn't want to register us. I really didn't know anything about my NA background, up until HS when I was invited to a powwow by my cousins. Although I didn't go, I did my research and was astonished by the culture and EVERYTHING. You could only imagine how upset I was with my mother, for not allowing me to learn more about the NA blood running through my veins. But she had her reasons.

I have continued to do my own research. I did learn that my father was from the Cherokee tribe, which my uncle told me. At that point I was in my late teens and didn't know if I could register on the tribe roll and get a cool CDIB or Tribal ID. WELP, I was right. I couldn't. Long story short... I needed my fathers help and I sure as hell was not going to ask for his help.

So ever since HS, I have always checked the NA and white box. I don't necessarily look the part. Well I kind of do, ehhh, it's a 50/50. I also started volunteering at a NA clinic but also a clinic for the underserved population.

With all that said, I know on AMCAS there's a section where we check boxes. Since I always check white and NA,( I'll obviously be doing that) I do not want that to be something that will limit my chances of getting accepted. I know many " unethical " people will check it to get a URM boost, but I never checked the URM box and I don't need the boost since I have stellar stats. I just don't want adcoms to think I'm lying just because I don't have a tribal ID or a CDIB.


PS. Please don't tell me I'm only doing it to get a URM boost, because I'm not. As mentioned above, I never checked the URM box.

STATS: cgpa:3.7 sgpa: 4.0 MCAT: 516 -- Engineering major with a minor in chem

"I don't check the URM box, but if you guys give me permission, I will" -OP

 

[Valtun]

"I don't check the URM box, but if you guys give me permission, I will" -OP

Pretty sure if anyone had the opportunity to truthfully be listed as URM they would take it. lol

 

[Dremt]

You have excellent stats regardless. I’m not judging you either way, I’ve seen other people try to twist their way into trying to be URM with some pretty unbelievable excuses. Yours is not necessarily straightforward, but not a lie either.

However, if you didn’t grow up disadvantaged (I.e economically, etc.) you don’t need to try that hard to put yourself in a category of historically disadvantaged people. You could go either way, your stats are good either way.

My two cents. If you think you’ll have to spend too much time explaining it or trip over yourself in an interview, then don’t do it. If you can explain in two sentences or less, go with it. “My Dad is Cherokee, but I haven’t had a relationship with him since I was 6.”

 

[Campana]

This whole thread makes me sad. I wish there were a better way.

Every tribe/nation gets to make their own rules for "membership" and thus it is possible to be a card carrying member of Cherokee Nation while not even on the roll books for another tribe even with a larger "percentage" of your heritage attributed to that group. There are tribes that to this day are still fighting for recognition by the federal government. And then there are the tribes where the "Americanization" efforts were so "successful" that almost no one is left but pieces - I guess these groups are so small that they don't even really need representation anymore?

I suppose at the end of the day @LizzyM must be right and that the whole URM checkbox is so fraught that when in doubt, leaving it unchecked is safer.

 

[LizzyM]

if you didn’t grow up disadvantaged (I.e economically, etc.) you don’t need to try that hard to put yourself in a category of historically disadvantaged people.

Could you expound on this. Should the children of Michael Jordan or Barak Obama check the box and identify as African American given that they did not grow up as disadvantaged?

 

[Serene124]

"I don't check the URM box, but if you guys give me permission, I will" -OP

LOL I don't need a "URM boost." My stats will at least get me some love from my state school.

Flash forward 10 years. You are setting up a practice in an area with a large population of Cherokee. Would those people see you, and trust you, as one of their own?

Native Americans are under-represented in the profession of medicine given the size of the NA population. That fact has nothing to do with anyone's personal ancestry. It is just a fact. Getting more people who identify as NA into the profession of medicine is a goal of the medical profession and the administrators of the medical schools.

I still think that you might be best off chosing not to reply to that question about race but if you have been checking the box on census documents all these years as white + NA, and then not identifying as NA when you are a physician, you are perpetuating the appearance of too few NA in medicine for the number of NA in the population.

The NA community out here has accepted me as their own, I live in a small town so many people already know about my "familial story". They still consider me as one of their own, regardless of the fact that my father is a doctor, who has taken care of many of them. I know many people now, will think, " Well of course they'll consider you as their own, your father has been treating them for many years," that maybe true but that's not the only factor. They like the way I try to learn more about my ancestry, something NOT MANY NA nowadays do. They love the fact I'm willing to help people from different tribes. Maybe having a well known father in the tribe is helping, but it takes more than that to win the hearts of NA. So if I were to open up a clinic out here, they will feel comfortable coming to me.

Many people think you're suppose to have a Tribal ID to be considered NA, and that's not true. I can go to my father who lives in the reserves and get him to give me a ID card, but I won't. Yet, I still have NA blood running through my veins so I will always be considered NA no matter what I do.

 

[rororochambeau]

Many people think you're suppose to have a Tribal ID to be considered NA, and that's not true. I can go to my father who lives in the reserves and get him to give me a ID card, but I won't. Yet, I still have NA blood running through my veins so I will always be considered NA no matter what I do.

Then what do you need from us OP? Reassurance that what you're doing is acceptable? I reread your original post and I still couldn't find a question. Are you just trying to justify your actions? You say you don't need a URM boost, but it DEFINITELY won't hurt your application, right? So convenient.

If you were confident enough that you actually identify with the NA culture, you wouldn't had made this post.

Stop taking away from those who actually deserve it. Being "astonished" by the culture isn't enough. What OP is doing is no different from what he/she deemed "unethical." Stop trying to find an excuse to check the box for your own self-interest.

 

[Serene124]

Then what do you need from us OP? Reassurance that what you're doing is acceptable? I reread your original post and I still couldn't find a question. Are you just trying to justify your actions? You say you don't need a URM boost, but it DEFINITELY won't hurt your application, right? So convenient.

If you were confident enough that you actually identify with the NA culture, you wouldn't had made this post.

Stop taking away from those who actually deserve it. Being "astonished" by the culture isn't enough. What OP is doing is no different from what he/she deemed "unethical." Stop trying to find an excuse to check the box for your own self-interest.

I simply asked if I checked the NA and white box would that hurt my application. I don’t need a URM boost and I don’t understand why people automatically think that because someone is NA they need it. I know it won’t hurt but all I asked was if I classify myself NA and white like I always do, would adcoms think I’m lying because i don’t have any sort of tribal ID. I’ve read so many post in regards to the whole “ playing the system “ and what not but I didn’t want the adcoms to think I’m a liar or “playing the system”.

I apologize if that was offensive by any means but I didn’t want my application getting rejected because of something I could’ve fixed. But @LizzyM and @Goro and many other posters have given me good advice.

 

[rororochambeau]

OP's making me wanna reconnect with the 1/16th of my NA heritage...might as well tell my filipino friends to check the hispanic box, since you know.. most of them have 1/8ths of their bloods coming from Spain.

 

[rororochambeau]

I simply asked if I checked the NA and white box would that hurt my application. I don’t need a URM boost and I don’t understand why people automatically think that because someone is NA they need it. I know it won’t hurt but all I asked was if I classify myself NA and white like I always do, would adcoms think I’m lying because i don’t have any sort of tribal ID. I’ve read so many post in regards to the whole “ playing the system “ and what not but I didn’t want the adcoms to think I’m a liar or “playing the system”.

I apologize if that was offensive by any means but I didn’t want my application getting rejected because of something I could’ve fixed. But @LizzyM and @Goro and many other posters have given me good advice.

Don't backtrack now OP.

 

[theKingLT]

OP's making me wanna reconnect with the 1/16th of my NA heritage...might as well tell my filipino friends to check the hispanic box, since you know.. most of them have 1/8ths of their bloods coming from Spain.

go re-read the thread or quit posting. OP has been very clear she doesn't want to check the URM, she was simply asking about how checking the NA race box (not URM) would effect her application. Additionally she sounds like a very mature and culturally respectful person who could likely serve as an amazing physician for NA populations in the future, but I digress... as Goro stated, she is fine without URM and if she wants to check the NA box she can, but simply leaving it out to avoid the stigma that comes with people abusing the system may be the best option.

 

[Serene124]

OP's making me wanna reconnect with the 1/16th of my NA heritage...might as well tell my filipino friends to check the hispanic box, since you know.. most of them have 1/8ths of their bloods coming from Spain.

Clearly you don’t know anything about NA. Secondly, you really don’t know what you’re talking about. And finally, your posts are so irrelevant.

If you read my initial post you’d understand that I had a simple question that many people took the wrong way, and that’s only because many other people “played the system” so I understand. But for you tell me I’m taking advantage or I coincidentally found out I’m NA is IRRELEVANT. Sure, I learned I was NA during high school but regardless of that my mom always and i mean ALWAYS wrote NA and white on all our apps, regardless, if she didn’t explain that side.

I also apologize for the fact that some people aren’t fortunate enough to have a father to explain their NA ancestry so what do those unfortunate people do... WE DO OUR OWN RESEARCH.

 

[nofliesonme]

Dear Serene...you have significant amounts of thousands of years of Native American DNA......not checking the NA box is a denial and repudiation of your ancestors.....IMO being true to who you are is more important than whatever personal gain is perceived

 

[rororochambeau]

go re-read the thread or quit posting. OP has been very clear she doesn't want to check the URM, she was simply asking about how checking the NA race box (not URM) would effect her application. Additionally she sounds like a very mature and culturally respectful person who could likely serve as an amazing physician for NA populations in the future, but I digress... as Goro stated, she is fine without URM and if she wants to check the NA box she can, but simply leaving it out to avoid the stigma that comes with people abusing the system may be the best option.

Like I said, OP can twist his/her own narrative and make it seem like he/she doesn't want to check the URM box. If readers here can buy the story, maybe the adcoms will too.

Yeah, yeah.. OP's fine without the URM, stats are great. But despite the advice of multiple adcoms here in the forum, OP's still inclined to check the box. You really can't deny that checking it will give the app a humongous advantage.

BTW.. How'd you know that OP's a "she"?

 

[rororochambeau]

Clearly you don’t know anything about NA. Secondly, you really don’t know what you’re talking about. And finally, your posts are so irrelevant.

These three statements mean the same thing. You could've just summarized them into one. Nice try for a rebuttal though.

Your application would speak for yourself. Like I said, if you were confident in your ability to identify with your NA heritage in the first place, you wouldn't have made this post. You, despite the advice of adcoms, insinuated that you still want to check the box. Most of your responses, despite your apologies, are filled with justifications on why you deserve to check the URM box.

One cannot deny the advantage of checking the NA box in the app. You keep on saying that you don't want the URM boost. If you don't, then don't check it. What are you still arguing for?

 

[gyngyn]

I hereby request civility in tone and constructive comments.

 

[Serene124]

These three statements mean the same thing. You could've just summarized them into one. Nice try for a rebuttal though.

Your application would speak for yourself. Like I said, if you were confident in your ability to identify with your NA heritage in the first place, you wouldn't have made this post. You, despite the advice of adcoms, insinuated that you still want to check the box. Most of your responses, despite your apologies, are filled with justifications on why you deserve to check the URM box.

One cannot deny the advantage of checking the NA box in the app. You keep on saying that you don't want the URM boost. If you don't, then don't check it. What are you still arguing for?

I have never said that I want to check the URM box... tbh, I really don’t want to keep explaining myself. If you want to judge, then by all means, please do.

On a side note. Thank you fellow SDNers for your response, I’ve taken all into consideration. I can finally submit my app ☺️ !!

 

[theKingLT]

Like I said, OP can twist his/her own narrative and make it seem like he/she doesn't want to check the URM box. If readers here can buy the story, maybe the adcoms will too.

Yeah, yeah.. OP's fine without the URM, stats are great. But despite the advice of multiple adcoms here in the forum, OP's still inclined to check the box. You really can't deny that checking it will give the app a humongous advantage.

BTW.. How'd you know that OP's a "she"?

Go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe, I don't think there's much need for this thread to continue. Also, it shows her gender on her profile, but I suppose she probably lied about that as well.

 

[LizzyM]

They still consider me as one of their own, regardless of the fact that my father is a doctor, who has taken care of many of them.

what?? This is confusing to me... is this the same father that you are estranged from and who you don't want to ask for help in acquiring a tribal card or is it a stepfather who is a physician?

 

[OchemOficionado]

Can I just add that there is no URM box that an applicant checks.



... if there is please let my black a$$ know, because I missed it.

 

[Serene124]

what?? This is confusing to me... is this the same father that you are estranged from and who you don't want to ask for help in acquiring a tribal card or is it a stepfather who is a physician?

I don’t want to put out too much information because I’m sure fellow SDNers who are NAs will know who I am. But same father that left me 19 years ago, he’s a physician.

 

[deleted804295]

I don't agree with the blood quantum rule in the U.S. it's unfair that other minorities don't have to prove their race in admissions but N.A.s do.

 

[LizzyM]

I don’t want to put out too much information because I’m sure fellow SDNers who are NAs will know who I am. But same father that left me 19 years ago, he’s a physician.

Will you list his name and occupation on your application? Does he have an ethnic name that would be obviously NA to anyone who might recongnize the surname and/or who know him? I think that your best bet might be "choose not to reply" but you may be very attractive to schools looking to boost their enrollment of URM students so it might not hurt to check the box... with your stats, no one will figure you are doing it for a boost.

 

[Goro]

Clearly you don’t know anything about NA. Secondly, you really don’t know what you’re talking about. And finally, your posts are so irrelevant.

If you read my initial post you’d understand that I had a simple question that many people took the wrong way, and that’s only because many other people “played the system” so I understand. But for you tell me I’m taking advantage or I coincidentally found out I’m NA is IRRELEVANT. Sure, I learned I was NA during high school but regardless of that my mom always and i mean ALWAYS wrote NA and white on all our apps, regardless, if she didn’t explain that side.

I also apologize for the fact that some people aren’t fortunate enough to have a father to explain their NA ancestry so what do those unfortunate people do... WE DO OUR OWN RESEARCH.

Let it go; use the Ignore function.

 

[Goro]

Will you list his name and occupation on your application? Does he have an ethnic name that would be obviously NA to anyone who might recongnize the surname and/or who know him? I think that your best bet might be "choose not to reply" but you may be very attractive to schools looking to boost their enrollment of URM students so it might not hurt to check the box... with your stats, no one will figure you are doing it for a boost.

This is one of those rare times I'll disagree with my learned colleague. I suspect too many unethical applicants, even with NYU class stats, have tried to game the system.
@gyngyn
@Med Ed
@Pathdocmd

What say you?

 

[Wahkoon]

Native American identity is the pandora's box of med apps. Since you don't have an enrollment number, without serious work in Native communities, I believe checking it under demographics could be seen as disingenuous even if it is truly how you identify. This has always been a point of contention given tribe's varying qualification for enrollment and history of tribal disenrollment/disenfranchisement.

 

[Med Ed]

This is one of those rare times I'll disagree with my learned colleague. I suspect too many unethical applicants, even with NYU class stats, have tried to game the system.
@gyngyn
@Med Ed
@Pathdocmd

What say you?

Hate the game, not the player.

I think it's fine to not check the box. I also think it's fine to check the NA box and then be completely up-front about the situation. The truth of the matter is that while the OP probably doesn't need help getting into medical school, there are plenty of schools who will see her matriculation as a real feather in their diversity cap, regardless of the underlying circumstances. Is that gaming the system, or is it just playing according to someone else's rules?

Even the official publication teases at the latter. Here is the relevant section from the 2018 AMCAS Applicant Guide (emphasis added):

"If you’d like to, you may self-identity with a race and an ethnicity. If none of the options apply to you, you may select Other and write in your response. This question is intended to provide medical schools with information about the many ways in which an applicant could contribute to institutional diversity."

 

[Dremt]

Could you expound on this. Should the children of Michael Jordan or Barak Obama check the box and identify as African American given that they did not grow up as disadvantaged?

Sorry I haven't been on SDN in several days, but I like your question and it deserves a response. I was telling the OP that in my personal opinion, they were fine either way, if they thought they would have too much trouble explaining their status, they could skip it.
As far as I know, Obama's children are 100% black, and also look 100% black. I did not mean to set a litmus test for who has grown up disadvantaged, there's no doubt that even if someone does not grow up depressed socioeconomically, their ancestors' depressed status could still impact them. For example, their older family might've been forced to live in a polluted area, or their family was unable to accumulate wealth and prosperity over generations as others may have. In other aspects, someone who clearly looks URM is also more likely to have experienced disadvantages such as racial profiling.

@LizzyM My response question is: if someone who is a large part URM but looks ORM is adopted into an ORM family at birth and thus lives their life completely and without prejudice, should they worry about checking the URM box and the perception of it by those who interview them?

The OP was worried about the perception of them abusing the system since they state they do not look NA (also did not grow up looking NA), or with a NA person in their household. I would guess that the chance of rubbing a school the wrong way increases when a student does not look like the minority they claim to be and offers a fumbled explanation, such as trying to explain the tribal ID card process or something. Your experience there would be more accurate than mine of course.

That's why I explained they should prepare a brief or simple explanation for it and if they weren't confident, they could leave it out. I have a friend who is 50% Hispanic but has freckles and is blonde, he leaves his boxes checked as white because he is too nervous to fumble the question in an interview and assumes he is more likely to be approached with suspicion than if he actually looked what most people assume 50% Hispanic looks like.

Basically I agree the OP would not be lying about their heritage, but if they don't have a cogent and pithy explanation then I would guess it could could be a detractor in an interview. That's just my two cents

 

[OchemOficionado]

As far as I know, Obama's children are 100% black, and also look 100% black.

Barack is biracial so your percentages are a bit off. Black can look like so many things, whether someone is mixed or not, so I’d be careful trying to quantify people’s experience based on how “non URM” one person may think they look (moreso that it can be subjective).

I think it has been cleared up pretty well in one of these threads that an ORM can have some significant experiences with racism so I’m not sure about the question you posed. . . You weren’t asking me anyway, haha.

 

[LizzyM]

Sorry I haven't been on SDN in several days, but I like your question and it deserves a response. I was telling the OP that in my personal opinion, they were fine either way, if they thought they would have too much trouble explaining their status, they could skip it.

If I were interviewing you, you'd get a big zero for not answering the question.

Dremt said: ↑
if you didn’t grow up disadvantaged (I.e economically, etc.) you don’t need to try that hard to put yourself in a category of historically disadvantaged people.

I asked if the children of rich and successful black men who did not grow up economically disadvantaged, ( Barack is biracial (white mother and African father) but let's set that aside) should not put themselves in a category of historically disadvantaged people (black people in America) and identify themselves by race on the application. You did not answer that question in any acceptable way but I really wasn't expecting that you would be able to do so. I don't expect a reply to this post.

 

[theKingLT]

Sorry I haven't been on SDN in several days, but I like your question and it deserves a response. I was telling the OP that in my personal opinion, they were fine either way, if they thought they would have too much trouble explaining their status, they could skip it.
As far as I know, Obama's children are 100% black, and also look 100% black. I did not mean to set a litmus test for who has grown up disadvantaged, there's no doubt that even if someone does not grow up depressed socioeconomically, their ancestors' depressed status could still impact them. For example, their older family might've been forced to live in a polluted area, or their family was unable to accumulate wealth and prosperity over generations as others may have. In other aspects, someone who clearly looks URM is also more likely to have experienced disadvantages such as racial profiling.

@LizzyM My response question is: if someone who is a large part URM but looks ORM is adopted into an ORM family at birth and thus lives their life completely and without prejudice, should they worry about checking the URM box and the perception of it by those who interview them?

The OP was worried about the perception of them abusing the system since they state they do not look NA (also did not grow up looking NA), or with a NA person in their household. I would guess that the chance of rubbing a school the wrong way increases when a student does not look like the minority they claim to be and offers a fumbled explanation, such as trying to explain the tribal ID card process or something. Your experience there would be more accurate than mine of course.

That's why I explained they should prepare a brief or simple explanation for it and if they weren't confident, they could leave it out. I have a friend who is 50% Hispanic but has freckles and is blonde, he leaves his boxes checked as white because he is too nervous to fumble the question in an interview and assumes he is more likely to be approached with suspicion than if he actually looked what most people assume 50% Hispanic looks like.

Basically I agree the OP would not be lying about their heritage, but if they don't have a cogent and pithy explanation then I would guess it could could be a detractor in an interview. That's just my two cents

The disadvantaged box and ethnic demographics are separate on the AMCAS for a reason. If I were Obama's children I would check off African American but not disadvantaged. That's just plain honesty. My understanding is that the whole point of "helping" URM's in admissions is more about providing a more diverse provider base for the benefit of the patients. It's not necessarily to make up for past racial wrongs/disadvantages, although it does generally help that as well. If you're just honest with what ethnic groups you identify with and whether or not you are disadvantaged, then the adcoms can decide if they think your background is beneficial enough to medicine to warrant admissions preference

 

[Wahkoon]

The disadvantaged box and ethnic demographics are separate on the AMCAS for a reason.

100% this. On my application I marked Native American (tribe registered), but not disadvantaged. My ethnic self-identification is not affected by whether or not I consider myself disadvantaged. I consider myself a more fortunate member of my community, but I am still a part of the community. I have worked with Native Americans in both a clinical and non-clinical setting. I understand the beliefs and needs of this specific population because they are my own - which is the benefit that diversity brings. This is should not be detracted from just because I don't consider myself disadvantaged.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

There he is: https://nypost.com/2015/04/12/mindy-kalings-brother-explains-why-he-pretended-to-be-black/

Fraudster that gulled his way into med school. He later dropped out.