Medical *student* adcom member, AMA!

[Hollow Knight]

Hello all! SDN was super helpful to me when I was applying. I'm in medical school now and on my school's admissions committee. I interview candidates and rank/review applications. Ask me anything!

A few points to remember- I'm not faculty, I don't know everything about medical school admissions, and I'm not going to dox myself, so I can't tell you my school or specific processes. But I can give you general advice (shadowing is good, etc etc).

I'll check this thread over the next few weeks. If I can help in any way, I'm happy to!

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[pablo213]

How did you go about joining the adcom? Did you have to apply, be there for a certain amount of time, have some particular certification?

 

[Dr_Pediatrics]

How much does when you submit your secondary influence your chances of an interview?

 

[Hollow Knight]

How did you go about joining the adcom? Did you have to apply, be there for a certain amount of time, have some particular certification?

At my school, you apply, and the big wigs decide who gets it. I'm sure many schools are similar in this regard, although the minute details will differ. Maybe some places you get nominated?

it seems to me there are student admissions members at most or at least many medical schools.

 

[Hollow Knight]

How much does when you submit your secondary influence your chances of an interview?

I mean, most places are rolling admissions, so earlier always is better (assuming your essays aren't full of typos and whatnot). When I was applying, the rule floating around was two weeks to submit. I'm not sure if that's "real" or if that's just what someone made up, but that seems reasonable to me.

What I can tell you with certainty: apply as early as possible. Submit secondaries as early as possible, ASSUMING THEY'RE GOOD. But when I was doing this I remember having SOOO many essays to write, so yeah, it's OK for it to take a couple/few weeks.

One thing to help with this is prewriting your secondaries- check out the school-specific threads on here to get the questions in advance from applicants who were a little earlier than you:

2023-2024 MD Medical School-Specific Discussions

Allopathic medical school-specific discussions of secondary prompts, interview invites, and experiences, and general discussions of the admissions process at a particular institution

forums.studentdoctor.net

I also think that premeds tend to over-stress over these things. Just get them in within a reasonable time frame. I don't think if you're a few days under or over two weeks that it matters that much in the end.

 

[pablo213]

I mean, most places are rolling admissions, so earlier always is better (assuming your essays aren't full of typos and whatnot). When I was applying, the rule floating around was two weeks to submit. I'm not sure if that's "real" or if that's just what someone made up, but that seems reasonable to me.

What I can tell you with certainty: apply as early as possible. Submit secondaries as early as possible, ASSUMING THEY'RE GOOD. But when I was doing this I remember having SOOO many essays to write, so yeah, it's OK for it to take a couple/few weeks.

One thing to help with this is prewriting your secondaries- check out the school-specific threads on here to get the questions in advance from applicants who were a little earlier than you:

2023-2024 MD Medical School-Specific Discussions

Allopathic medical school-specific discussions of secondary prompts, interview invites, and experiences, and general discussions of the admissions process at a particular institution

forums.studentdoctor.net

I also think that premeds tend to over-stress over these things. Just get them in within a reasonable time frame. I don't think if you're a few days under or over two weeks that it matters that much in the end.

In a similar vein, how much does secondary writing actually matter for getting an interview and Acceptance vs. Stats and ECs

 

[Yasuo23]

After the interview, what do interviewers I report to the committee? What are they looking for?

Also, how soon after the interview do you think schools make a decision on an applicant?

Thank you!

 

[Hollow Knight]

In a similar vein, how much does secondary writing actually matter for getting an interview and Acceptance vs. Stats and ECs

Whether you're a generically competitive applicant or not comes mostly from your ECs and stats. Most med schools are looking for similar things (volunteering, shadowing, research, clinical exposure, academic excellence, etc). Each school has their own priorities obviously.

I think secondaries are more for establishing school fit/mission fit; at least that's how I use them personally. Ideally, you'd want to be a strong, well-rounded applicant who fits a school's mission to a T. Because all schools are different, you can't possibly match each school perfectly. But research each school and see what about them makes you excited. Just to give an example, if you're applying to Hopkins, you probably shouldn't say that you want to be a community FM doc who has no interest in research (I'm not at Hopkins, I'm generalizing here. Maybe I'm wrong, it's just an example).

You can use these essays to tell your story (you want to work with x underserved population because y), and this narrative/theme helps, but it usually won't make up for a very weak app. You kinda have to have it all.

Alternatively, if you're a 4.0/528 person who has 5 pubs, but you tell me in your secondaries that you're a serial killer (or insert some other faux pau), You aren't getting an A (or even an II) at that school. I hope this makes sense.

 

[Hollow Knight]

When I was applying, I had this idea in my head that if I wrote the best essay an adcom had ever seen or interviewed outstandingly, it would make my application. In reality, I think your essays/interviews are considered in the context of your whole app. So when places say "holistic review" they actually mean that, in my experience.

 

[Hollow Knight]

After the interview, what do interviewers I report to the committee? What are they looking for?

Also, how soon after the interview do you think schools make a decision on an applicant?

Thank you!

What interviewers report is school-dependent. Obviously, work on your general interview skills. Most schools have a scoring rubric of some kind (I think Goro has written a post generally describing this process). Some schools' interviews are literally vibe checks. I'd tell you my process but ya know..... anonymity and of course they want that stuff internal. Of course, I have my own personal things I look for, or if I really connect with an applicant during my interview, I make sure to go to bat for them at the committee meeting/in my comments. But just my words won't make or break your app (unless, of course, you tell me you're a serial killer).

As far as decision timing- this is super school dependent, to the point I won't even comment. But please try not to stress. I have friends who got in on October 15th and friends who got in the week before class.

As far as what interviewers look for- It's different for each interviewer. I would advise all of you to sit up straight, look your interviewers in the eye, and answer questions honestly and intelligently. And, tell your story. Be your authentic self. If you try to do that thing where you guess what the interviewer wants to hear, you'll come across as phony, or you might just guess wrong and say the opposite.

My only exception would be political questions- try to stay in the middle or slightly left of center. Everybody gets so dang offended these days.

Unless the political thing is part of your story/identity, in which case.... be your authentic self, and if that school doesn't want you because of that, you'd be miserable at that school. Take the L.

Edit: sorry for @ tting you Goro, although of course I'll defer to his thoughts on literally everything haha

 

[Goro]

Your comments are spot on.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Your comments are spot on.

Gee thanks! And I appreciate all your help over the years.

 

[PhoenixRising77]

After an interview, do adcoms look at all aspects of an application or is the interview the single determining factor in an A, R, or WL? I know this can be school specific but I have heard so much differing info.

 

[Yasuo23]

As far as what interviewers look for- It's different for each interviewer. I would advise all of you to sit up straight, look your interviewers in the eye, and answer questions honestly and intelligently. And, tell your story. Be your authentic self. If you try to do that thing where you guess what the interviewer wants to hear, you'll come across as phony, or you might just guess wrong and say the opposite.

Thank you for that!

Quick follow up, for zoom interviews, should I just look at the camera when I am talking?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Thank you for that!

Quick follow up, for zoom interviews, should I just look at the camera when I am talking?

Sure!

Haha, relax. I don't think there's a right answer here. If you look at the camera, it looks like you're making eye contact, but you can't see your interviewer's expressions. If you just look at your interviewer's eyes onscreen, it looks like you're looking down slightly.

Dude it doesn't matter. Don't worry about it I personally alternated between camera and interviewer's face but hopefully interviewers aren't this neurotic that they worry about this.

Now, you SHOULD look in the general direction, don't stare at the floor, slouch, etc

 

[pablo213]

Sure!

Haha, relax. I don't think there's a right answer here. If you look at the camera, it looks like you're making eye contact, but you can't see your interviewer's expressions. If you just look at your interviewer's eyes onscreen, it looks like you're looking down slightly.

Dude it doesn't matter. Don't worry about it I personally alternated between camera and interviewer's face but hopefully interviewers aren't this neurotic that they worry about this.

Now, you SHOULD look in the general direction, don't stare at the floor, slouch, etc

Thoughts on NVIDIA's eye contact tech (NVIDIA Broadcast)?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Thoughts on NVIDIA's eye contact tech (NVIDIA Broadcast)?

I had to Google that. I have no thoughts.

Actually my initial reaction was "Dang that's neurotic" haha. If it makes you feel better go for it! Not sure it matters.

 

[Hollow Knight]

After an interview, do adcoms look at all aspects of an application or is the interview the single determining factor in an A, R, or WL? I know this can be school specific but I have heard so much differing info.

At my school, the interview performance is a piece of the overall puzzle. It's not like once you get to the interview stage nothing else matters.

We think you're impressive, you get an interview invite, then eventually at a committee meeting we look at your overall picture, not just your interview. Does that make sense? I assume almost all schools are like this, but I can't speak for all medical schools.

When I was in your shoes recently, I also heard this idea that once you make it to the interview, it's a level playing field and you get in off your people skills. That doesn't really make sense to me. What makes more sense is for schools to consider interview performance along with grades, ECs, etc.

Now, if I'm interviewing you and you knock my socks off, I'll make sure to go to bat for you at the committee meeting. Or, if you tell me you're a serial killer, I'll make sure you don't get in here or any medical school. Make sense? But most interviews are average and don't make or break your app.

 

[karaya]

Or, if you tell me you're a serial killer, I'll make sure you don't get in here or any medical school.

Just out of curiosity, do adcoms talk to other schools' adcoms? Do red flags get discovered that lead to the global ban?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Just out of curiosity, do adcoms talk to other schools' adcoms? Do red flags get discovered that lead to the global ban?

Medicine is a super small world. There aren't that many opthalmologists, dermatologists, etc, especially not in academic medicine. Just to give you an example, an adcom member at one school who met me in college and thought highly of me called his adcom buddy at another school to put in a good word.

Now, as far as a universal ban- I've never seen this in real life. Just to give you an example, if I see an institutional action because you went to a bar and you were a student at a Christian school- I couldn't care less, that just seems like religious nonsense to me. I try to be as lenient as possible because I know that no student is perfect. If you have a specific situation you'd like to discuss, use the SDN confidential advice thread: Confidential Expert Advice. You're welcome to DM me too, but those guys at that thread have more experience than I.

Now, if you look at me during an interview and say "I'm a serial killer," or "I don't think [insert ethnic group] should be allowed to access medical care," then yeah, I'm going to email my whole adcom and be like "Hey, we shouldn't admit homie, because homie is racist."

Edit: removed a decent amount of speculative rambling on my part.

 

[PhoenixRising77]

I assume at most medical schools, the interview performance is a piece of the overall puzzle. It's not like once you get to the interview stage nothing else matters.

We think you're impressive, you get an interview invite, then eventually at a committee meeting we look at your overall picture, not just your interview. Does that make sense? I assume almost all schools are like this, but I can't speak for all medical schools.

When I was in your shoes recently, I also heard this idea that once you make it to the interview, it's a level playing field and you get in off your people skills. That doesn't really make sense to me. What makes more sense is for schools to consider interview performance along with grades, ECs, etc.

Now, if I'm interviewing you and you knock my socks off, I'll make sure to go to bat for you at the committee meeting. Or, if you tell me you're a serial killer, I'll make sure you don't get in here or any medical school. Make sense? But most interviews are average and don't make or break your app.

Thanks! I think there is a misconception with premeds that the interview is make or break, and it's good to hear this is not the case.

 

[Goro]

Thanks! I think there is a misconception with premeds that the interview is make or break, and it's good to hear this is not the case.

The Adcom committee is the true make or break.

 

[Goro]

Just out of curiosity, do adcoms talk to other schools' adcoms? Do red flags get discovered that lead to the global ban?

Not in any official category. But some Admissions deans seem to be friends with a few other Admissions deans

 

[Fisherman Frank]

What are your thoughts on MMI-style interviews vs the traditional interviews? Do you prefer one or the other?

 

[Hollow Knight]

What are your thoughts on MMI-style interviews vs the traditional interviews? Do you prefer one or the other?

Ehh, in a traditional interview, if you don't vibe with your interviewer, you're screwed. I think the MMI mitigates this risk and is more objective. Which is probably especially good for mitigating discrimination as well.

But personally, I'm a people person, and I prefer a typical interview. When I was an applicant doing MMIs, I felt like I was playing a video game. And some of the questions were just dumb. I like an old-fashioned conversation.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Not in any official category. But some Admissions deans seem to be friends with a few other Admissions deans

We go out for drinks at meetings. Oh the stories.

 

[pablo213]

Oh the stories.

👀

 

[senecca]

Not in any official category. But some Admissions deans seem to be friends with a few other Admissions deans

Do adcoms sign NDAs ?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Do adcoms sign NDAs ?

Our admissions dean makes a pretty big deal about applicant privacy; we all had to sign one. But n = 1

 

[jhmmd]

Ehh, in a traditional interview, if you don't vibe with your interviewer, you're screwed. I think the MMI mitigates this risk and is more objective. Which is probably especially good for mitigating discrimination as well.

But personally, I'm a people person, and I prefer a typical interview. When I was an applicant doing MMIs, I felt like I was playing a video game. And some of the questions were just dumb. I like an old-fashioned conversation.

I think that interviews are about making a connection, i.e. befriend the interviewer.

Dunno how MMI "mitigates" the risk of that tho! Maybe if you have multiple personalities?

People are not video games to be stared at and played. I am glad that you had good luck however!

 

[pablo213]

I think that interviews are about making a connection, i.e. befriend the interviewer.

Dunno how MMI "mitigates" the risk of that tho! Maybe if you have multiple personalities?

People are not video games to be stared at and played. I am glad that you had good luck however!

It's precisely for that reason that MMIs mitigate risk. Not everyone you come across will like you, no matter what you do. That's more likely to matter if you're in a trad interview with only 1 person providing input. If you have 6 people, then the bias is 1/6 as strong

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I think that interviews are about making a connection, i.e. befriend the interviewer.

Dunno how MMI "mitigates" the risk of that tho! Maybe if you have multiple personalities?

People are not video games to be stared at and played. I am glad that you had good luck however!

I'm not sure befriend is the best word, but I get what you mean. I want the applicant to connect with me. Eye contact, welcoming posture, calm, warmth, are things I would initially notice. I would at the end ask an open ended question. After their initial reply, I would take the opposite point of view and argue with them, looking for authentic replies, not some canned response. Are they saying what I want to hear or what they truly believe? I want to take them a little outside of their comfort zone and further out their decision making tree at the end. After all, the applicant is applying for the job of being MY doctor.

 

[kath00]

Can you point us to the MMI rubric from @Goro or others, or give us guesses on how they "score" you. My MMIs ranged from "what is wrong with medicine today" to teach this other applicant to do something via Zoom. So weird and I dunno if I should feel good about being able to teach another applicant how to do some random task in under 8 minutes.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Can you point us to the MMI rubric from @Goro or others, or give us guesses on how they "score" you. My MMIs ranged from "what is wrong with medicine today" to teach this other applicant to do something via Zoom. So weird and I dunno if I should feel good about being able to teach another applicant how to do some random task in under 8 minutes.

Sorry... such rubrics are proprietary and confidential. I can say that having seen or developed about a dozen of those. They also vary by type of station.

 

[Goro]

Can you point us to the MMI rubric from @Goro or others, or give us guesses on how they "score" you. My MMIs ranged from "what is wrong with medicine today" to teach this other applicant to do something via Zoom. So weird and I dunno if I should feel good about being able to teach another applicant how to do some random task in under 8 minutes.

I have no such rubric

 

[kath00]

I have no such rubric

BUMMER!

 

[dadegang]

Hello all! SDN was super helpful to me when I was applying. I'm in medical school now and on my school's admissions committee. I interview candidates and rank/review applications. Ask me anything!

A few points to remember- I'm not faculty, I don't know everything about medical school admissions, and I'm not going to dox myself, so I can't tell you my school or specific processes. But I can give you general advice (shadowing is good, etc etc).

I'll check this thread over the next few weeks. If I can help in any way, I'm happy to!

As a student application reviewer, were you able to look up old applications from every student who has every applied to that school ? I’m curious about how ethically managed it is.

 

[Hollow Knight]

As a student application reviewer, were you able to look up old applications from every student who has every applied to that school ? I’m curious about how ethically managed it is.

So my school has a VERY strict policy on this, it's basically treated like Hipaa. No, I can't. And I wouldn't. And if someone I know applies I have to recuse myself. And, applicant data is kept in a secure fashion and I believe gotten rid of in a couple of years.