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I have to ask. How much did you make per year in BFE? And where was the BFE (what state, how far from major/mid size city)?
I have to ask. How much did you make per year in BFE? And where was the BFE (what state, how far from major/mid size city)?
Six hundred large.
I'm consciously ignoring (with all due respect) your other inquiries, since I've still got Homies there.
I hope these BFE gigs still exist when get out of residency. I'd gladly spend some years in the very center of nowhere to to #1 pay off my ludicrous 400k worth of student loans and #2 build a nice fu account.
I am not sure where you are getting all this optimism from!
Have you checked the anesthesia job market lately?
People should know what they are getting into and then make an informed decision.
The anesthesia residencies are producing crazy numbers of new grads while the number of available jobs has dropped dramatically.
The management companies and hospitals are taking over and as a result slashing reimbursement significantly.
Independent CRNA practice is not an illusion, it's a reality and expanding daily.
We are not in the same boat with all the other specialties, we are in a sinking boat by ourselves.
I am not sure where you are getting all this optimism from!
Have you checked the anesthesia job market lately?
People should know what they are getting into and then make an informed decision.
The anesthesia residencies are producing crazy numbers of new grads while the number of available jobs has dropped dramatically.
The management companies and hospitals are taking over and as a result slashing reimbursement significantly.
Independent CRNA practice is not an illusion, it's a reality and expanding daily.
We are not in the same boat with all the other specialties, we are in a sinking boat by ourselves.
This is how I feel about the specialty. My 4th year electives were done in community hospitals with attendings who only preceptored 4th year medical students going into anesthesia. They were pretty frank with their opinions, and they mirrored this, for the most part.
I can completely understand the POV from those giving the "realistic" advice, but I'm finding out that realism varies in different markets in the country.
As much as I really enjoyed certain aspects of other specialties, I can't see myself doing anything other than anesthesiologist's work, and still be happy with my career.
I also feel like anesthesiology is a field worth saving and improving for future physicians, and you can't do that by discouraging bright minds by encouraging them to go into something else (out of fear of what might be). Realism is ok, but apparently subjective. I want to be part of bringing anesthesiology around again, if that's possible. It may be fruitless, but I'm willing to give it a shot.
I also am wondering about this...am currently doing an anesthesia rotation and will be applying in September.
If anesthesia is bound to doom, why are people still applying to the specialty??
It doesn't make sense to me. The graduating class at my school had about 12 students match into anesthesia...they matched at top programs like Stanford, Harvard, UCSF, Tufts...
Many of those who went into anesthesia had stellar step scores and were AOA...they could have gone into any other specialty yet they chose a specialty that is supposedly going down in the "competition" with CRNAs??
That is very realistic. I came out with 275K. My wife came out with 350K+ in debt.
God forbid you are an american grad that went to a Caribbean medical school.
Then you are really behind the eight ball.... and if you match to FM... it will be @ LEAST 10-20 years before you get out of the hole if you don't have loan forgiveness behind you and have a family + house and expenses.
You feel me?
Seroiusly, 'lil G: You don't know what you are talking aobut.
Sevo, what fielid is your wife in? If people are coming out NOW with 350-400K loans, then I would expect in 6-7 years we will start seeing tons of people with 500K loans. Already, over on the dental forum, a guy posted who got into NYU dent that he would have 500K (after interest) at graduation. He ultimately decided not to go.
300-400k medical/school loans? Really?? Come on!! Be more realistic, please. Why go to an expensive private school which makes you pay out of your a**? Here's a solution. Why not choose an in-state public institution instead? There are plenty of great medical schools that are a lot less expensive than Harvard or Yale.
I see you have not posted here in awhile, probably because you realize you don't know what you're talking about, but I've gone to a state school for all of undergrad and med school (and a reasonably priced one at that) and I will owe roughly $250,000 when I get done in a year. Check your facts, chief. Going the state school route doesn't mean you're graduating with low debt that you can pay off in a few years - med school is a money suck and is only getting worse.
WORD.
Whatever specialties you're thinking about find mentors in that field, both academic and private. Try as best you can to gather information about that field and try to see if it's something you could do every day, day in and out for many years. This is probably the hardest thing to do as a medical student. At the end of the day, taking advice that will affect the rest of your life from a couple of anonymous internet posters is pretty ridiculous in my opinion
You are correct that this can be extremely difficult as a student. For example, I was at a medical school that did not have an academic anesthesia department and the PP guys were few and far between. With the inability to do aways until mid-late MS4 year, you are making a big decision with limited information. I think I have made the correct choice, but sometimes the "anonymous internet poster" is better than what you have access to as a medical student.
On a larger scale I think it is fairly obvious that everyone you come in contact with in relation to a certain specialty shapes and effects your perception of that specialty. The mean resident that made you hate OB third year or the random assignment with the great peds attending that everyone wants to be like, all mold your decision for better or worse. It is hard to isolate out the objective from the subjective.
I also am wondering about this...am currently doing an anesthesia rotation and will be applying in September.
If anesthesia is bound to doom, why are people still applying to the specialty??
It doesn't make sense to me. The graduating class at my school had about 12 students match into anesthesia...they matched at top programs like Stanford, Harvard, UCSF, Tufts...
Many of those who went into anesthesia had stellar step scores and were AOA...they could have gone into any other specialty yet they chose a specialty that is supposedly going down in the "competition" with CRNAs??
Because people tend to be reactionary not proactive. The herd mentality won't change until people start to see/hear about jobs disappearing and/or salaries going down. It can take years before it's evident. By then, you're deep into it and it's hard to change course.
What are the most protected specialties outside of surgery (or derm)? Just curious
What are the most protected specialties outside of surgery (or derm)? Just curious
absolutely. I strongly recommend a residency in either hospital administration or government bureaucracy. Those two specialties are at the top of the medical mountain and the only really 100% safe options.
If selling your soul isn't your thing, then just pick a field you like.
Come back in 13 years when you've matched his time spent in training. If you even have the will and ability to do it, that is.
Few things on this forum make me as bone-weary tired as pre-meds who pontificate about their noble willingness to sacrifice a paycheck they haven't even earned yet on the altar of taxes and the public good.
Think about this: if you are masturbating to a pornographic film basically you are a jag off, jagging off to some jag off, jagging off. Food for thought.....
Four new medical schools recently graduated their first classes, adding nearly 1,000 students to this year's residency matching pool. And medical schools are on track to increase enrollment by 30%, according to AAMC figures. But closing the doctor deficit takes time because students must spend between three and seven years training in a medical specialty, which can range from primary care to surgery.
Med school graduates who fail to find a match end up in a kind of professional no man's land. They can apply for one of the approximately 1,000 positions that are not filled in the official matching process, apply for a research grant or -- in the worst case -- abandon plans to become a doctor.
This year, nearly 17,500 graduates of U.S.-based medical schools applied to the National Resident Matching Program, which uses an algorithm that pairs student and hospital preferences with available openings at teaching hospitals around the country.
Some 1,100 U.S. graduates did not find a match this year -- and about half of those didn't land a spot in the informal period afterward. Medical groups say the disparity between students and slots will only grow in coming years and are urging Congress to make changes to assure that all applicants find training.
Blade,
I read the article that you posted from. This is scary. What the article says rings true for me and many of my classmates--that we may not get a spot, and it is getting worse each year.
What are your personal opinions on the issue? Do you think congress will actually authorize funding for more spots? Or will the excess be absorbed by private hospitals (and private funding) providing money for trainees? (I've heard of this already happening in a number of places).
It's just going to make matching that much harder for....everyone.
This is something I'm also very curious about.
As more students go unmatched, I think it is highly likely that the government will provide funding for more spots.
But in that case, what specialties will receive extra funding? Any besides FM?
If specialties receive extra funding, would increased output be balanced relative to demand? There's probably a delicate balance between providing increased access to care through more physicians, and decreasing the leverage that physicians have due to increased supply/decreased demand.
L2D and others have speculated that the legislators/AMA will use the current "residency crunch" to their advantage in order to force more students into primary care. I wouldn't put it past them.
With NP's and PA's making 150+ in some areas, I have to wonder: WTF is the point of going to medical school and paying 400K+ in loans? Only to *hope* to get a spot in...FP? Seriously?
This is something I'm also very curious about.
As more students go unmatched, I think it is highly likely that the government will provide funding for more spots.
But in that case, what specialties will receive extra funding? Any besides FM?
If specialties receive extra funding, would increased output be balanced relative to demand? There's probably a delicate balance between providing increased access to care through more physicians, and decreasing the leverage that physicians have due to increased supply/decreased demand.
Why would they fund more spots? Why should they care about a politically powerless group of people trying to 'get rich'?
Why would they fund more spots? Why should they care about a politically powerless group of people trying to 'get rich'?
Medical students and premeds have no idea what's coming down the line at 90mph.
It's been noted on these boards several times that ideas are being floated around to reallocate training funds from specialties to primary care, and any thoughts about expanding specialty training funding (unless it's grossly undermanned) are almost certainly fantasy. Still want to do plastics or derm for no income during residency? That is a possibility.
Students line up to take ridiculously high interest loans for medical school. Graduating well over 200k in debt will be the norm. In my day the interest was 1/2 as much, a significant amount could be subsidized, and 100k of debt was a lot. Massive debt when income will almost certainly decline, good plan. They're betting on IBR to save them, all the while forgetting IBR will soon find itself a target for gov't cost savings. I wonder what group of students could be excluded? Professional students? Great idea Senator!
How about generous loan repayment bonuses? Nope. Increased competition for jobs and decreased reimbursement will eliminate them, if they haven't already. We don't offer a signing bonus anymore. We have many applicants for every opening, and the last couple years have had a 100% acceptance rate for our offers. They recognize a fair and secure job offer in a nice location doesn't come along every day anymore. No need for a signing bonus.
They're in big trouble.
I get soo sick of hearing all the complaining from student on this site. You got into medical school hopefully for the reasons. Good for you. You'll get way more money than the average American and have prestige. There are thousands of people who wish they could be doctors who will never be able to. So STOP complaining about who gets payed how much and who deserves how much and who thinks the profession is going down hill just because they think they might be making 300,000 a year instead of 320,000. In the end, even doctors die so who cares? You cant spend money when you are dead Just focus on being the best doctor you can be.
I wonder at what point it no longer makes sense. There aren't many alternatives out there that offer the job security and "basement-level" compensation that medicine does. In the end I figure these are sacrifices that are necessary to do what I want to be doing, but it really is a bitter pill to swallow when I allow myself to think about it too much...
Yeah, see, that's what I'm worried the perception of medicine is. I think powers that be actually like the residency crunch because it is how they are going to force people into primary care. So much for having a choice.
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/April/02/Quinnipiac-medical-school-primary-care.aspx
Michael Ellison has a tough assignment.
He's the associate dean of admissions choosing the first class of a brand new medical school, the Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University in Connecticut. Its a school with a very specific mission: minting new doctors who want to go into primary care practice....
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/April/02/Quinnipiac-medical-school-primary-care.aspx
Michael Ellison has a tough assignment.
He's the associate dean of admissions choosing the first class of a brand new medical school, the Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University in Connecticut. Its a school with a very specific mission: minting new doctors who want to go into primary care practice....