My mind was fully set to anesthesia before I read this forum..

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F that. I spent 12+ years training to do a job a very small minority of people can do in this country and will pay near 3/4 million in loan repayments (400k over 25 years) and what I do make Uncle Sam is gonna take 50% of, apparently me already paying more taxes by paying 25% on 250k while you pay 15% on 50k isn't enough, I need to pay 10x the taxes despite making only 5x the income.

US autoworkers make 50$ an hour with a 6 month training certificate. I make 120$ an hour after 12 years of higher education that will cost me 750,000 to payback and 3 years as an indentured servant (residency), and I save lives. The average high end restaurant manager in NyC makes the same salary as the average first year FP attending in PP. now you tell me who is more valuable to society. We traverse a road to our career like no other. I deserve my salary and much more than that.
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On a side note, thanks Hawthorne I was wondering what my loan repayments would be, the time is coming soon. I have about 400k and was planning a 25 year repayment and was hoping to be just under 3k if possible. I have 5 kids my wife wants a house can't afford to pay in 10 years even if that means I pay a lot more in the end (both loans and mortgage will still be paid off at 54 if I do them over 25 years)
 
geronamo26 said:
I understand wanting compensated fairly, but why the 400,000 500,00 600,000 salaries? Why the disrespect toward mid-levels? What do mid-levels have to do with school loans and salaries?. I just want to know why everyone is so upset about paying 200,000 medical school loans when they will be making 300,000 to start as an anesthesiologist? Its not as hard as people seem to like to make it out to be. Just don't buy the million dollar home and 50,000 dollar car. Live simply. Live off of 100,000 a year. Thats all I'm saying. There is no reason for 400,000, 500,000 600,000 dollor salaries.
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My 300k salary over 30 years is 10 million. Tiger made that last weekend playing a game. Lawyers spending their days suing me frivolously despite me spending my life helping sick people can make that in 2 years. Wall Street businessman make 10x that trading stocks with the sole purpose of making money for themselves and their companies. Why are you ok with them working their ass off and living in a 600,000 house but I work my ass off, pay ungodly loans that they don't have, and spend my days trying to keep your 80 year old gomer grandfather from dying, whom your beloved president wants allow to die because he's too old for the government insurance to support, but I can't live in the same 600,000 house. Maybe it would be good if they cut the salaries to #s you think we should make. The shortage of doctors would reach the 100,000 mark so fast your head would spin and your daddy will be waiting 3 years to get that elective hernia repaired after he waits 24 hours in the ER waiting room to be seen for his abdominal pain. STFU you witless idiot.
 
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geronamo26 said:
I understand wanting compensated fairly, but why the 400,000 500,00 600,000 salaries? Why the disrespect toward mid-levels? What do mid-levels have to do with school loans and salaries?. I just want to know why everyone is so upset about paying 200,000 medical school loans when they will be making 300,000 to start as an anesthesiologist? Its not as hard as people seem to like to make it out to be. Just don't buy the million dollar home and 50,000 dollar car. Live simply. Live off of 100,000 a year. Thats all I'm saying. There is no reason for 400,000, 500,000 600,000 dollor salaries.
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why is a pre-health douche still commenting in this thread with misinformation and no real perspective on anything?

STFU and GTFO.
 
geronamo26 said:
I understand wanting compensated fairly, but why the 400,000 500,00 600,000 salaries? Why the disrespect toward mid-levels? What do mid-levels have to do with school loans and salaries?. I just want to know why everyone is so upset about paying 200,000 medical school loans when they will be making 300,000 to start as an anesthesiologist? Its not as hard as people seem to like to make it out to be. Just don't buy the million dollar home and 50,000 dollar car. Live simply. Live off of 100,000 a year. Thats all I'm saying. There is no reason for 400,000, 500,000 600,000 dollor salaries.
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My house, my car, my salary, my anything, is none of your business.

As for the rest, read "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell, then come back here.
 
geronamo26 said:
CRNAs are stupid? How the hell did you get into medical school with that kind of disrespect? If only the public could see what pre-med/doctors say in this forum. Makes me sad that there are people like you becoming doctors.
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I missed this. Did you just throw down Burnett's Law here? :laugh:

Typical pre-med move.
 
Bostonredsox said:
On a side note, thanks Hawthorne I was wondering what my loan repayments would be, the time is coming soon. I have about 400k and was planning a 25 year repayment and was hoping to be just under 3k if possible. I have 5 kids my wife wants a house can't afford to pay in 10 years even if that means I pay a lot more in the end (both loans and mortgage will still be paid off at 54 if I do them over 25 years)
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No problem! I hadn't thought about it yet since I do not graduate med school until May 2014 but man that guy is annoying. I really love Anesthesia and hope it has a bright future for me. Second place in my heart is Ob/Gyn but seriously I love my daughter and think Anesthesia offers a much better balance of work vs. family life. I hope I don't have to witness this awesome field die.
 
Bostonredsox said:
My 300k salary over 30 years is 10 million. Tiger made that last weekend playing a game. Lawyers spending their days suing me frivolously despite me spending my life helping sick people can make that in 2 years. Wall Street businessman make 10x that trading stocks with the sole purpose of making money for themselves and their companies. Why are you ok with them working their ass off and living in a 600,000 house but I work my ass off, pay ungodly loans that they don't have, and spend my days trying to keep your 80 year old gomer grandfather from dying, whom your beloved president wants allow to die because he's too old for the government insurance to support, but I can't live in the same 600,000 house. Maybe it would be good if they cut the salaries to #s you think we should make. The shortage of doctors would reach the 100,000 mark so fast your head would spin and your daddy will be waiting 3 years to get that elective hernia repaired after he waits 24 hours in the ER waiting room to be seen for his abdominal pain. STFU you witless idiot.
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I never said that I agree with Tiger Woods making millions and millions of dollors for hitting a ball around, or the same for any other celebrity. I also know that lawyers aren't all trying to sue the pants off doctors all the time. If they are, there is probebly a good reason for it. Also, finding a decent job as a lawyer these days is very hard. Military men and women risk their lives every day for all of us, yet you never hear them complaining about pay. There will always be selfless people willing to help the poor, needy, sick etc., believe it or not. People do it everyday. BTW, our president has been and continues to do an excellent job! I'm sorry you feel like he's letting you down.
 
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IlDestriero said:
Yeah, just pay it off over 30 years. What's the big deal.
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HUH?

Dest, that's BAD ADVICE to give man.

Students get lulled into this comfort zone:

"Yeah, I owe Two Hundred LARGE (gasp) but over thirty years the payment isn't that bad."

Ummmmm........

HELLO.....WTF???

Do you guys realize how much INTEREST you're gonna pay on your student loans if you don't make it a priority to pay it off FIRST,

BEFORE BUYING YOUR 7 SERIES BMW?

Gimme a break.

I don't care what your MILF financial-aid lady said.

I don't care what you've heard from your financially savvy friends/partners.

I don't care what you've read on this website from other posters.

WANNA KNOW WHAT I KNOW AND WHAT I CARE ABOUT?

DEBT IS AN ANCHOR.

THAT, UNLESS IT'S A MORTGAGE ON A HOUSE, YOU NEED TO

PAY OFF ASAP.

Jesus Christ man!!!! The rationalization I hear about paying off one's Student Loan Debt over 20-30 years AMAZES ME.

DUDES...that's a significant amount of money you borrowed... DO YOU REALIZE HOW MUCH IN INTEREST YOU WILL PAY OVER A 20-30 YEAR PERIOD?

WAKE UP PEOPLE

DO NOT

finance your student loans over a 20-30 year period while you

MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE

buying big houses and expensive cars, and of course your kids haffta go to the

most expensive schools, right?

STOP THE CYCLE BEFORE IT BEGINS.

Trust me.

If you're carrying a sizable Student Loan Debt,

When you financially hit the Big Time,

LIVE MODESTLY FOR A WHILE. FUNNEL ALL THOSE

EXTRA BENJAMINS TOWARDS

PAYING OFF YOUR STUDENT LOAN DEBT.

I don't care what anybody says man.

People can say "Yeah! I've got a really really low interest loan so I'll ride it out since it's such a LOW INTEREST!!!"

Such bu ll **** man.

You are always better off paying off student loans FIRST in the long run.

DEBT IS AN ANCHOR.

Don't ever forget that.
 
geronamo26 said:
I never said that I agree with Tiger Woods making millions and millions of dollors for hitting a ball around, or the same for any other celebrity. I also know that lawyers aren't all trying to sue the pants off doctors all the time. If they are, there is probebly a good reason for it. Also, finding a decent job as a lawyer these days is very hard. Military men and women risk their lives every day for all of us, yet you never hear them complaining about pay. There will always be selfless people willing to help the poor, needy, sick etc., believe it or not. People do it everyday. BTW, our president has been and continues to do an excellent job! I'm sorry you feel like he's letting you down.
Click to expand...

Military men and women knowingly sacrifice their bodies. They also get a lot of indirect income in the form of free education, books, housing allowance, moving allowance, insurance, benefits, etc. I'm sorry, but going out to fight for your country shouldn't mean you ought to get a high income on top of the benefits the military provides to you and your family. They aren't completely selfless, either. It's a nice trade-off.

The president is doing an excellent job? What brand of weed are you and the president sharing these days?
 
IlDestriero said:
Yeah, just pay it off over 30 years. What's the big deal.
Click to expand...

I assume this is tongue in cheek, otherwise I've got to wholeheartedly agree with Jet.

Maybe back in the day when student loans could be consolidated at a couple % it made sense to repay them over 30y. Maybe. But these days ... at 6.8% + when your income is high enough to eliminate the interest tax deduction? What a crippling, stiflying anchor.
 
pgg said:
I assume this is tongue in cheek, otherwise I've got to wholeheartedly agree with Jet.

Maybe back in the day when student loans could be consolidated at a couple % it made sense to repay them over 30y. Maybe. But these days ... at 6.8% + when your income is high enough to eliminate the interest tax deduction? What a crippling, stiflying anchor.
Click to expand...

sounded facetious to me.
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
Military men and women knowingly sacrifice their bodies. They also get a lot of indirect income in the form of free education, books, housing allowance, moving allowance, insurance, benefits, etc. I'm sorry, but going out to fight for your country shouldn't mean you ought to get a high income on top of the benefits the military provides to you and your family. They aren't completely selfless, either. It's a nice trade-off.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Where else, but the military, can a high school grad with no other prospects sign up for that kind of job security, training, education, even career/pension opportunities? Nowhere. 4 years of service followed by college on the post-9/11 GI Bill and anyone can live the American Dream, debt free.

They earn it though. Every morning when I walk from my little dormitory to the hospital here, I pass the same group of guys loading up the MRAPs to go cruise the city or countryside. Sometimes I see them again before the day's over. I wouldn't trade places for 2x my pay.
 
jetproppilot said:
HUH?

Dest, that's BAD ADVICE to give man.

DEBT IS AN ANCHOR.

Don't ever forget that.
Click to expand...

You missed the sarcasm.
I probably should have used one of these. :rolleyes:
Paying down 3-400k of education debt is no joke and 300k take home won't pay that off easily if you have a family.
Though geronimo would have us believe it's no problem at all. F'ing rich doctors with their Mercedes and their millions.

(BTW, Sometimes I think you need a xanax.)
 
BTW, we all probably need a Xanax now and then. But what fun would that be?!??

I say we keep the FUN in dysfunctional!
 
A friend of mine told me about this thread so I joined so i can comment.

Anesthesiology is DEAD field. Ive been at this 17 years and i made more my third year than i do now and i work 30 percent more. More and more ORs are staffed with CRNAs and that is what they are requesting which leaves very little for us. The demand for our services has declined significatntly and will continue to do so. At the same time, our leaders are seliing us out and not being very effective at helping our cause.

I read Jetproppilots position. Some people have great jobs. If you are the owner of one of the national management companies and you never go to the OR. Thats a great job. If you are the chairman of a big academic department. THats a great job. The majority us have tolerable and more often than not not so tolerable jobs. Im lucky because i can get out at any time and not do this anymore. Who i feel bad for are the current residents or the incoming residents.

ON top of that, the ABA has implemented stricter requirements for bd certification. IN 2014, they will require TWO written exams and an applied (oral) exam sort of like your osce in medical school. I just dont understand the purpose of that. Maybe it is a money making scheme
 
IlDestriero said:
You missed the sarcasm.
I probably should have used one of these. :rolleyes:
Paying down 3-400k of education debt is no joke and 300k take home won't pay that off easily if you have a family.
Though geronimo would have us believe it's no problem at all. F'ing rich doctors with their Mercedes and their millions.

(BTW, Sometimes I think you need a xanax.)
Click to expand...

300-400k medical/school loans? Really?? Come on!! Be more realistic, please. Why go to an expensive private school which makes you pay out of your a**? Here's a solution. Why not choose an in-state public institution instead? There are plenty of great medical schools that are a lot less expensive than Harvard or Yale.
 
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I honestly think this thread should be locked--turned in to a flame fest and very negative overall tone that does a disservice to anyone interested in the field.
 
there is no moderator presence on this board

We sold a family house, I took the money and paid off my 160K and am FREE! Plopped down an additional 160k on wifes loan and she STILL owes 60k
 
geronamo26 said:
300-400k medical/school loans? Really?? Come on!! Be more realistic, please. Why go to an expensive private school which makes you pay out of your a**? Here's a solution. Why not choose an in-state public institution instead? There are plenty of great medical schools that are a lot less expensive than Harvard or Yale.
Click to expand...

You really are a fool. :)
Your ignorance is showing.
 
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geronamo26 said:
300-400k medical/school loans? Really?? Come on!! Be more realistic, please. HEre's the solution. Why go to an expensive private school which makes you pay out of your a**? Why not choose an in-state public institution instead? There are plenty of great medical schools that are a lot less expensive than Harvard or Yale.
Click to expand...

That is very realistic. I came out with 275K. My wife came out with 350K+ in debt.

God forbid you are an american grad that went to a Caribbean medical school.

Then you are really behind the eight ball.... and if you match to FM... it will be @ LEAST 10-20 years before you get out of the hole if you don't have loan forgiveness behind you and have a family + house and expenses.

You feel me?

Seroiusly, 'lil G: You don't know what you are talking aobut.
 
geronamo26 said:
300-400k medical/school loans? Really?? Come on!! Be more realistic, please. Why go to an expensive private school which makes you pay out of your a**? Here's a solution. Why not choose an in-state public institution instead? There are plenty of great medical schools that are a lot less expensive than Harvard or Yale.
Click to expand...

You are so naive it hurts. I went to a public state school, still have 350+ in loans. Also, how about people with limited options. You say just go to a school X because it's cheaper, as if you can just pick which schools accept you.
 
geronamo26 said:
300-400k medical/school loans? Really?? Come on!! Be more realistic, please. Why go to an expensive private school which makes you pay out of your a**? Here's a solution. Why not choose an in-state public institution instead? There are plenty of great medical schools that are a lot less expensive than Harvard or Yale.
Click to expand...

Really? Have you even applied to med school? It is ridiculously competitive. Most people do not even have a choice to stay in there home state for med school. Give me a break.
 
Millergold said:
A friend of mine told me about this thread so I joined so i can comment.

Anesthesiology is DEAD field. Ive been at this 17 years and i made more my third year than i do now and i work 30 percent more. More and more ORs are staffed with CRNAs and that is what they are requesting which leaves very little for us. The demand for our services has declined significatntly and will continue to do so. At the same time, our leaders are seliing us out and not being very effective at helping our cause.

I read Jetproppilots position. Some people have great jobs. If you are the owner of one of the national management companies and you never go to the OR. Thats a great job. If you are the chairman of a big academic department. THats a great job. The majority us have tolerable and more often than not not so tolerable jobs. Im lucky because i can get out at any time and not do this anymore. Who i feel bad for are the current residents or the incoming residents.

ON top of that, the ABA has implemented stricter requirements for bd certification. IN 2014, they will require TWO written exams and an applied (oral) exam sort of like your osce in medical school. I just dont understand the purpose of that. Maybe it is a money making scheme
Click to expand...

Why did millergold get banned after one innocent post?
 
geronamo26 said:
300-400k medical/school loans? Really?? Come on!! Be more realistic, please. Why go to an expensive private school which makes you pay out of your a**? Here's a solution. Why not choose an in-state public institution instead? There are plenty of great medical schools that are a lot less expensive than Harvard or Yale.
Click to expand...

Lol I forgot, I chose to go to the school I went to instead of my local state university because I wanted to double my debt purposely. Or. there is the last time I check, 500+ people applying for every one medical school seat in this country (MD and DO). Most are lucky to even get a seat. I know I feel lucky that I did.

That said, almost 120k of my total debt was taken out to support me and my family during medical school. NYC-LI area is expensive. 30k was undergrad, 200k was medschool itself. 50k is capitalized interest since med residency started. Had I been single, I probably would be down about 75k less. But thats still 300k+. the numbers down lie.
 
I have to say if I had read this forum before I committed to anesthesia, I would probably not have went into it either.

There are a lot of aholes, racists, and overly try-hard cynicals and wanna-be tough guys on this forum.

Luckily not everyone in the profession is like this in real life. Some but not all.

Blade, JPP and a few others are the reason I browse it occasionally.
 
pgg said:
Few things on this forum make me as bone-weary tired as pre-meds who pontificate about their noble willingness to sacrifice a paycheck they haven't even earned yet on the altar of taxes and the public good.
Click to expand...

Best post in this thread. :thumbup:
 
Bostonredsox said:
F that. I spent 12+ years training to do a job a very small minority of people can do in this country and will pay near 3/4 million in loan repayments (400k over 25 years) and what I do make Uncle Sam is gonna take 50% of, apparently me already paying more taxes by paying 25% on 250k while you pay 15% on 50k isn't enough, I need to pay 10x the taxes despite making only 5x the income.

US autoworkers make 50$ an hour with a 6 month training certificate. I make 120$ an hour after 12 years of higher education that will cost me 750,000 to payback and 3 years as an indentured servant (residency), and I save lives. The average high end restaurant manager in NyC makes the same salary as the average first year FP attending in PP. now you tell me who is more valuable to society. We traverse a road to our career like no other. I deserve my salary and much more than that.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you are getting your info, but it's not that high. Maybe some of the senior skilled trades dudes, with overtime. But, not the average hourly worker on the line.

Anyway, I hear you. We make some big sacrifices. Eight f.cking years AFTER undergrad. Not much compares.

But, a word of caution using your line of reasoning as pertains to "value". Value is whatever society is willing to pay for your services. If more plumbers went into plumbing, then they wouldn't make as much. Supply/Demand.

Of course there's more to it than that (lobbying for example), but if you use the whole "i did 12 years of training for my job" thing, then you'll forever be disappointed and very very bitter. Nobody made you do this.
 
geronamo26 said:
300-400k medical/school loans? Really?? Come on!! Be more realistic, please. Why go to an expensive private school which makes you pay out of your a**? Here's a solution. Why not choose an in-state public institution instead? There are plenty of great medical schools that are a lot less expensive than Harvard or Yale.
Click to expand...
Okay punk......I go to a state school, thank you, and I will still graduate with close to 400000 in loans. So please since you obviously have never gone to medical school and have no clue what you are talking about.....stop talking!
 
IlDestriero said:
You missed the sarcasm.
I probably should have used one of these. :rolleyes:
Paying down 3-400k of education debt is no joke and 300k take home won't pay that off easily if you have a family.
Though geronimo would have us believe it's no problem at all. F'ing rich doctors with their Mercedes and their millions.

(BTW, Sometimes I think you need a xanax.)
Click to expand...

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

LOLLLLL

Dude that's funny man!

You made me laugh out loud in front of my computer with that one. :thumbup:
 
pgg said:
There is, but we do as little as possible, and most of what we do is not visible at all.
Click to expand...

I'm a beneficiary of that style. Please know that "I know,"

and

I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE "LAX" STYLE OF THIS FORUM.

DEAR READERS PLEASE READ THIS:

Quite honestly and quite literally,

Had the moderation on this forum not been VERY accepting and VERY "we'll look the other way,"

JET WOULD'VE BEEN BANNED AND HUGGING A DIRT PILLOW LONG AGO.

Please don't EVER complain about the moderation of this forum.
 
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Thank you all for royally scaring the **** out of me (MS0).

The titanic analogy was epic, btw.

Brb check SDN.
Brb anxiety attack.
 
BLADEMDA said:
You can do it. Develop a 10-15 year plan of loan repayment. Or, get a job in BFE and pay it off in 3 years flat.
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I WORKED IN BFE FOR THAT EXACT REASON!

MY LOANS ARE PAID OFF.

:thumbup::thumbup:

(3 years is a stretch even in BFE...took me 7)

Nice post, Blade.
 
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