My daughter is completely devastated. Please help her in making a decision!

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sasasa

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My daughter is about to graduate from a top undergrad school (within top10 in the nation) with 3.7 cumulative GPA, about 3.5 science GPA and 36 MCAT. She is planning to apply for MD schools this summer ( she is taking a gap year).

Until yesterday, we were pretty confident that she would get into at least 2-3 med schools. She met her advisor today and she really scared her off saying that her science GPA is very low and she has almost no chances of getting in anywhere. She suggested my daughter to either retake MCAT or look into SMP (Special Masters Program) for her gap year.We are not sure if we can pay $20,000-30,000 for one more year. She can retake MCAT, but what if she gets lower than 36? My daughter is really devastated now and is not able to concentrate on anything.

Just FYI, she has some very good extra curriculars---paper getting published from NIH, research, volunteering in South Africa, shadowing, working in a lab etc.

Please help her in making the decision and please chance her.
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sasasa said:
My daughter is about to graduate from a top undergrad school (within top10 in the nation) with 3.7 cumulative GPA, about 3.5 science GPA and 36 MCAT. She is planning to apply for MD schools this summer ( she is taking a gap year).

Until yesterday, we were pretty confident that she would get into at least 2-3 med schools. She met her advisor today and she really scared her off saying that her science GPA is very low and she has almost no chances of getting in anywhere. She suggested my daughter to either retake MCAT or look into SMP (Special Masters Program) for her gap year.We are not sure if we can pay $20,000-30,000 for one more year. She can retake MCAT, but what if she gets lower than 36? My daughter is really devastated now and is not able to concentrate on anything.

Just FYI, she has some very good extra curriculars---paper getting published from NIH, research, volunteering in South Africa, shadowing, working in a lab etc.

Please help her in making the decision and please chance her.
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The adviser is batsh@t crazy. She will be be fine if she applies broadly and interviews decently. There are no guarantees in med school admissions, but check the charts at the top of the page and you will see that she has a better than 50% chance at acceptance just based on uGPA and MCAT. The sGPA is not awesome, but it should be good enough to get in somewhere especially with the high MCAT's.
 
The adviser is flat out wrong. Yes a sGPA of 3.5 is on the lower side, but the 36 mcat more than makes up for it. And if your daughter has as good extracurriculars as you say, then she should have an excellent chance. Just make sure to apply broadly and not too top-heavy.
 
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Thank you very much for your responses! That's what i have been trying to comfort her.
She had 3 or 4 B-'s in her first year science classes, but had a very good upward trend for the last 3 yrs (A- average). The advisor said, since those B-'s were pre med requirements, it would affect her badly.
We are not looking at top med schools. Her main focus is state schools where they take up to 80% residents. So, we thought she will have a pretty good chance. Now, we are not so sure anymore :(
 
Her advisor is wrong, unless there is some mark on her record we don't know about.
As long as she isn't one of those top 10 med school or bust applicants she should get in to a great school. I would recommend applying to about 20 schools, 5 reaches, 10 in the wheelhouse, and 5 well selected safeties.
Find the lizzy m spreadsheet on here, it's helpful.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using SDN Mobile
 
I got in to one of my top top choices with lower stats than hers across the board (including 3.2 sGPA) and even am on the waitlist at a Top 15 school. Her upward trend will definitely lessen the blow of the lower sGPA.

Advisers at top schools often try to discourage applicants to protect the undergrad school's successful placement rates. It's BS and it happened to me too, but I powered through! :)
 
Honestly, I am really glad you came here with your advice. The pre-health advisor at my school was the worst and she knew absolutely nothing. After learning of SDN and talking to people on here, I found that most of the things she said were wrong and her advice was terrible. If your daughter applies broadly, has some decent extra curriculars, and isn't socially awkward then she will def score some acceptances.
 
Her numbers are fine, maybe not for Stanford or the Ivies, but her advisor is definitely ignorant.

She should be fine with any mid-tier school, and depending upon where you live, her public school as well. Her cGPA and MCAT are both above avg for matriculants. The sGPA is slightly below, but not a detriment. Retake the MCAT? Only a ***** would suggest that....a 36 is up >90th %ile. An SMP would only be appropriate if her cGPA and sGPA were down in the low 3's, or less.

So tell her to quit fussing and start applying! My school would take her in a heartbeat!

sasasa said:
My daughter is about to graduate from a top undergrad school (within top10 in the nation) with 3.7 cumulative GPA, about 3.5 science GPA and 36 MCAT. She is planning to apply for MD schools this summer ( she is taking a gap year).

Until yesterday, we were pretty confident that she would get into at least 2-3 med schools. She met her advisor today and she really scared her off saying that her science GPA is very low and she has almost no chances of getting in anywhere. She suggested my daughter to either retake MCAT or look into SMP (Special Masters Program) for her gap year.We are not sure if we can pay $20,000-30,000 for one more year. She can retake MCAT, but what if she gets lower than 36? My daughter is really devastated now and is not able to concentrate on anything.

Just FYI, she has some very good extra curriculars---paper getting published from NIH, research, volunteering in South Africa, shadowing, working in a lab etc.

Please help her in making the decision and please chance her.
Click to expand...
 
I can relate... my advisor did the same to me when I asked for a committee letter. I had to do my homework and bring in all the stats from med schools. Your daughter is fine! She will be an M.D.! I really think the advisors need a clue!
 
Yeah wtf what kind of advisor tells you to retake a 36 MCAT? Does she even know what kind of score that is?

The MCAT wasn't something crazy unbalanced like a 14-14-8 was it? I mean even if it was it wouldn't be a big deal but that's the only thing I can think of that would make someone say that unless they were completely stupid...

Just apply to a bunch of schools (don't rely only on your state schools weird stuff happens). You'll spend a lot less than 20K and she'll start medical school next year.
 
Hah. I had the same GPA breakdown and lower MCAT, not nearly as prolific of a list of ECs. I got into medical school.

Eff that advisor. Your daughter will do fine!
 
Great stats. Most pre-med advisors know absolutely nothing about getting into medical school (all mine were worthless). Apply EARLY and broadly. She will definitely get interviews.
 
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Thank you all so much for your responses. I'm really glad I came here for the advise. All your responses gave us a lot of confidence. I'll definitely pass on this messages to my daughter. So, are you suggesting 'no retaking MCAT'?
 
sasasa said:
Thank you all so much for your responses. I'm really glad I came here for the advise. All your responses gave us a lot of confidence. I'll definitely pass on this messages to my daughter. So, are you suggesting 'no retaking MCAT'?
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DO NOT RETAKE THE MCAT.

This pre-med adviser needs to be fired.
 
sasasa said:
Thank you all so much for your responses. I'm really glad I came here for the advise. All your responses gave us a lot of confidence. I'll definitely pass on this messages to my daughter. So, are you suggesting 'no retaking MCAT'?
Click to expand...

What was the breakdown?
If all sections were over 8 DO NOT Retake. Despite what you will hear from her friends and occasionally this forum, I only ever met one person that actually scored a 36, and one that scored a 40, every other US MD matriculant I know was 29-34.I would venture to say she is a lock for a few mid tier schools and has a good chance at a few more holistic top 20s (look at the ones that are more into MCAT and research, you can tell by MSAR) . What is her state school.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using SDN Mobile
 
After I got my MCAT score back, I told my brother (MSTP at Top 10 school) that some of my friends with similar scores (36-37) were considering retaking, and he gave me a death glare and said "Your friends are crazy. DO NOT RETAKE THE MCAT." He explained it as, "Look, you already scored in the 90-whateverth percentile. Didn't you have anything better to do with your time? It's not going to help your application, it's just going to look like your ego couldn't take being in the 95th instead of 98th percentile and you wanted that number for its own sake."

Your daughter sounds like a solid applicant all around. Give her lots of encouragement from all of us who have been through the process! :love:
 
So because this person claims to be a parent nobody smells troll?
 
Temperature101 said:
This advisor is worthless....
Click to expand...

Totally agree. This is what happens when an adviser is only looking out for him/herself and not the best interests of the student. Its ******ed. If she was at my school my adviser would tell her she has a great chance at most places, and a decent chance at upper tier schools if she rocks her PS and interviews, thats the truth.
 
sasasa said:
My daughter is about to graduate from a top undergrad school (within top10 in the nation) with 3.7 cumulative GPA, about 3.5 science GPA and 36 MCAT. She is planning to apply for MD schools this summer ( she is taking a gap year).

Until yesterday, we were pretty confident that she would get into at least 2-3 med schools. She met her advisor today and she really scared her off saying that her science GPA is very low and she has almost no chances of getting in anywhere. She suggested my daughter to either retake MCAT or look into SMP (Special Masters Program) for her gap year.We are not sure if we can pay $20,000-30,000 for one more year. She can retake MCAT, but what if she gets lower than 36? My daughter is really devastated now and is not able to concentrate on anything.

Just FYI, she has some very good extra curriculars---paper getting published from NIH, research, volunteering in South Africa, shadowing, working in a lab etc.

Please help her in making the decision and please chance her.
Click to expand...

All my advisers told me I would not be able to get into medical school and discouraged me from doing so. I was a freshman when my adviser told me I had no chance of getting into medical school with a starting GPA of 3.4. I was devastated. I started doubting my dream, and from there on out anyone who told me I shouldn't go to medical school made a bigger impact on me than those who encouraged me.

I got into medical school. Maybe it was a clerical error. I'm still trying to convince myself that it wasn't. But after gaining numerous acceptances, I realize that the people who told me I COULDN'T were WRONG.

Tell your daughter that she has no reason to doubt her dream even if she had a 3.3 GPA/29MCAT. There is a medical school out there that is looking for a young woman who is passionate about healthcare.

Statistics are on your side. Just look at the data. The evidence is there, and it says that your daughter has a decent shot at getting into a good medical school. She may or may not go Ivy league, but that doesn't mean she can't get into an excellent medical institution. Your daughter still needs to work hard and make her decisions wisely, but there's no reason to get down on yourself. Just keep moving forward.

I take everything my academic adviser tells me with a giant grain of salt (aka I rarely listen to my academic adviser). Talk to a doctor. They're doctors and not advisers for a reason.

In summary:

DO NOT RETAKE THE MCAT. GO WORK ON YOUR PRIMARY APPLICATION. SUBMIT EARLY. A 3.5sGPA IS MORE THAN FINE ESP. WITH A 36 MCAT.

IF IN DOUBT: APPLY D.O. IN ADDITION TO M.D. DO NOT BOTHER WITH SMP PROGRAMS.
 
Sometimes advisors are so detached from reality it is quite comical. My advisor told me that I should take all my pre-reqs over two semesters and a summer so I could take the MCAT in August and apply by the October deadline. Yes, for a little while I was that person that thought oh my application isn't due until October...I am totally fine!

She sounds like she has fantastic stats and ecs. I wish her the best of luck!!
 
sasasa said:
Thank you very much for your responses! That's what i have been trying to comfort her.
She had 3 or 4 B-'s in her first year science classes, but had a very good upward trend for the last 3 yrs (A- average). The advisor said, since those B-'s were pre med requirements, it would affect her badly.
We are not looking at top med schools. Her main focus is state schools where they take up to 80% residents. So, we thought she will have a pretty good chance. Now, we are not so sure anymore :(
Click to expand...

This scenario sounds alot like the one I am currently in, but my pre-medical advisor did not share the same advice. He was weary of my freshmen/sophomore year Chemistry/Organic Chemistry grades (B- to B), but I have had a very strong upward trend since my junior year as well. In addition, he told me that my MCAT will help balance out my rather low science GPA.

In the end, he basically told me I should apply broadly (at least 17-20 schools), and as long as they are not all Top 50 schools, I would be in good shape. He was not guaranteeing any results, but he wasn't pessimistic either. He is actually the assistant dean to Pre-Medical studies at my university, and so his words actually gave me hope. He is the kind of advisor who likes to be pretty blunt, and so if there was a significant problem, he most likely would have told me.

P.S. My Stats are almost identical to your daughter's. 36 MCAT/3.65 cGPA/3.5 sGPA. I think any sane advisor would have given your daughter similar advice. Best of luck with this application cycle! :thumbup:
 
I would purchase the MSAR. It is a publication from the AAMC that lists averages and ranges for accepted applicants at every medical school in the U.S. You will see from this concrete evidence that she can definately get into the majority of schols with a 3.5 science GPA!
 
You sure your daughter met with the actual advisor and not a strung-out homeless man on the street? Because I don't know who else would recommend a retake on a 36 MCAT. That's a fantastic score and certainly makes up for the average-ish GPA. I'd say she's an above-average candidate. And you should make calls about getting that advisor/hobo fired.
 
sasasa said:
My daughter is about to graduate from a top undergrad school (within top10 in the nation) with 3.7 cumulative GPA, about 3.5 science GPA and 36 MCAT. She is planning to apply for MD schools this summer ( she is taking a gap year).

Until yesterday, we were pretty confident that she would get into at least 2-3 med schools. She met her advisor today and she really scared her off saying that her science GPA is very low and she has almost no chances of getting in anywhere. She suggested my daughter to either retake MCAT or look into SMP (Special Masters Program) for her gap year.We are not sure if we can pay $20,000-30,000 for one more year. She can retake MCAT, but what if she gets lower than 36? My daughter is really devastated now and is not able to concentrate on anything.

Just FYI, she has some very good extra curriculars---paper getting published from NIH, research, volunteering in South Africa, shadowing, working in a lab etc.

Please help her in making the decision and please chance her.
Click to expand...

Stress the following point loud and clear: premed advisors are incompetent

1. Advisors aren't smart (and 99% of them have no idea what they are talking about)
2. Completely ignore whatever the advisor preaches (because she proved her incompetence).
3. Use SDN to post questions (we have adcoms here).
4. Never take an SMP (waste of money and the GPA is good).
5. The high MCAT score offers a solid reason for her success in medical school.
6. EC's are solid.
7. Your daughter has a strong chance in medical school.

:luck:
 
Relevant.
+1 what everyone said. Advisers usually don't know what they're talking about. Your daughter will be fine! :)
 
Thank you all so much! you guys have given us so much hope :) .As parents,We are going to help her in every way we can.
Also, what would you suggest for her gap year and summer after graduation? She already applied for some research and internships and waiting to hear from them. She wants to do EMT this summer. Would that be helpful? I'm sorry for too many questions.
 
sasasa said:
My daughter is about to graduate from a top undergrad school (within top10 in the nation) with 3.7 cumulative GPA, about 3.5 science GPA and 36 MCAT. She is planning to apply for MD schools this summer ( she is taking a gap year).

Until yesterday, we were pretty confident that she would get into at least 2-3 med schools. She met her advisor today and she really scared her off saying that her science GPA is very low and she has almost no chances of getting in anywhere. She suggested my daughter to either retake MCAT or look into SMP (Special Masters Program) for her gap year.We are not sure if we can pay $20,000-30,000 for one more year. She can retake MCAT, but what if she gets lower than 36? My daughter is really devastated now and is not able to concentrate on anything.

Just FYI, she has some very good extra curriculars---paper getting published from NIH, research, volunteering in South Africa, shadowing, working in a lab etc.

Please help her in making the decision and please chance her.
Click to expand...

Some observations...

You used the word "top" twice in the first sentence.

Your daughter is a senior in college and this is the first time she has met with a pre med advisor to discuss her chances? That is odd. Either way, purchase the MSAR and look at the data.

Consult the AAMC acceptance rate chart for her numbers. She has well over a 75% chance of acceptance.
 
Tell your daughter not to listen to *****s. I will wager nearly anything that if she's personable and applies broadly, she will get in.
 
sasasa said:
Thank you all so much! you guys have given us so much hope :) .As parents,We are going to help her in every way we can.
Also, what would you suggest for her gap year and summer after graduation? She already applied for some research and internships and waiting to hear from them. She wants to do EMT this summer. Would that be helpful? I'm sorry for too many questions.
Click to expand...

All those options are good. Whatever she does, just tell her it's important that she does something that she feels makes her grow, not just that it looks cute on resume.
 
Agent B said:
Stress the following point loud and clear: premed advisors are incompetent

1. Advisors aren't smart (and 99% of them have no idea what they are talking about)
:luck:
Click to expand...

nice sweeping generalization of an entire profession.

This is what you are advocating:
"all advisors are stupid, so your best option is to turn to anonymous people on the Internet"
 
Mt Kilimanjaro said:
nice sweeping generalization of an entire profession.

This is what you are advocating:
"all advisors are stupid, so your best option is to turn to anonymous people on the Internet"
Click to expand...

yep. that sums it up nicely. SDN is a more reputable source than these so-called advisors. the only exception is physician advisors. they know what they are talking about
 
Agent B said:
yep. that sums it up nicely. SDN is a more reputable source than these so-called advisors. the only exception is physician advisors. they know what they are talking about
Click to expand...

My pre med adviser is a former adcom at a top twenty... So.... I'd like to think that she's reliable.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using SDN Mobile
 
Doctor Strange said:
My pre med adviser is a former adcom at a top twenty... So.... I'd like to think that she's reliable.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using SDN Mobile
Click to expand...

i'll clarify. Only advisors who were physicians or adcom members are reliable. The rest are not. However, only a small portion, say 5%, falls under the exception. Feel free to dispute with this point. Most advisors are distrustful.
 
Agent B said:
yep. that sums it up nicely. SDN is a more reputable source than these so-called advisors. the only exception is physician advisors. they know what they are talking about
Click to expand...

My advisor was pretty solid

At a Top10 university, a premed committee is probably under a lot of pressure to make sure their acceptance rate is near or at 100%. This is probably why they try to dissuade premeds with slightly low gpas of 3.5 just because they are slightly less likely to get in. This is probably why they give completely idiotic advice like retaking 1 36.

To the OP....you're daughter is fine. She needs to apply broadly (i.e. not just to top 20 schools - include state schools and make sure her application fits the schools' missions), and write good, interesting responses to secondary questions and her personal statment.
 
Agent B said:
i'll clarify. Only advisors who were physicians or adcom members are reliable. The rest are not. However, only a small portion, say 5%, falls under the exception. Feel free to dispute with this point. Most advisors are distrustful.
Click to expand...

Most advisors are suspicious or unwilling to trust? Sounds like they should see a psychologist....I believe the word you were looking for was "untrustworthy." Anyyyywhoooooo......

What's the source of your 5% estimate? Based on your personal experience with one pre-medical admission office?

I see a lot of sweeping generalizations here and not a lot of data.
 
Mt Kilimanjaro said:
Most advisors are suspicious or unwilling to trust? Sounds like they should see a psychologist....I believe the word you were looking for was "untrustworthy." Anyyyywhoooooo......

What's the source of your 5% estimate? Based on your personal experience with one pre-medical admission office?

I see a lot of sweeping generalizations here and not a lot of data.
Click to expand...

Sorry to offend you for improper use of semantics. There's no need to prove myself further regarding this. This may seem like a generalization, but 5% of all premed advisors who are actually competent is a pretty large number. You can convince yourself otherwise, but my point stands. I made my point so you can disprove me with your sources
 
Agent B said:
i'll clarify. Only advisors who were physicians or adcom members are reliable. The rest are not. However, only a small portion, say 5%, falls under the exception. Feel free to dispute with this point. Most advisors are distrustful.
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to agree with this. I've met with many pre-med advisors and none of them knew a thing about the medical school application process. Honestly, SDN helped me tremendously when applying. Much more than any advisor I had met with.
 
Geebeejay said:
My advisor was pretty solid

At a Top10 university, a premed committee is probably under a lot of pressure to make sure their acceptance rate is near or at 100%. This is probably why they try to dissuade premeds with slightly low gpas of 3.5 just because they are slightly less likely to get in. This is probably why they give completely idiotic advice like retaking 1 36.

To the OP....you're daughter is fine. She needs to apply broadly (i.e. not just to top 20 schools - include state schools and make sure her application fits the schools' missions), and write good, interesting responses to secondary questions and her personal statment.
Click to expand...

I am actually surprised by this thread. I go to a top 10 school and the premed advisors do the opposite. They encourage everyone to apply regardless of stats. My friend got an 8 on the VR reasoning and wanted to retake; the advisor told her that her appilcation was fine and she should apply.

Anyways, the advisor in the first post is an idiot. Who would retake a 36? I just looked it up the percentile (2012); a 36 = 97.4 percentile. lol
 
Last edited:
@Twizzlers713 and @Mt Kilimanjaro---I'm not a troll. I'm just a helpless parent who wants to help her daughter to get out of depression.
She met her advisor before taking her MCAT
 
Imagine all the kids who don't have a parent like this and are taking the adviser's advice...
 
Hi there,

I don't think your daughter has anything to worrry about given her stats. Sure, they aren't in the highest tier (true), but certainly won't be barred from admission given that she has a very well-rounded application.

I think your daughter is going to benefit HEAVILY from being "involved" a lot after school, NOT from an SMP. Lots of volunteering, and research, or community activities. I applied with a lower GPA and still managed to get through. It's not impossible.

The biggest problem I usually see with premeds is that they cannot derive any meaning from the activities they are involved in. Meaning, they just clock hours and that's it. I can assure you that many schools will ask about volunteering experiences and what they got away from it. As much as being premed is jumping through hoops and going through a checklist, the more you get away from that mentality, the stronger applicant you will be come interviews, etc.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
 
As others have said, she will get in somewhere as long as she applies somewhat broadly and barring any red flags. I have to agree that the majority of pre-med advisors don't have a clue. It's really sad that their opinion is having such an effect on potential students. Honestly the best advice I have found has been through this website as long as you can weed through the BS.

Survivor DO
 
Just wanted to jump on this train and agree with everyone. However, don't be too confident and apply to a few med schools--apply to a variety. The worst thing that could happen is that you have 10 schools to choose from. GL :)
 
Firstly, if MCAT>33 do not retake.

Secondly, and I know people will hate me for saying this, but shouldn't your daughter be looking into this stuff instead of her mother?
 
Pretty sure around 80% of applicants with a 3.7 GPA & 36 MCAT got into an allopathic medical school. A research publication and clinical volunteer experience in Africa sounds like above average extracurriculars to me also.

That said, don't be shy about applying to a healthy number of schools. I have a 3.64 cGPA, 3.45 science GPA, 36 MCAT and I was rejected from 25 schools last year. Only received 1 interview this year out of 18 schools. I have clinical experience at a local hospital, hospice, and free health clinic. Hoping to generate a 1st author publication out of my current basic science research experience. Couldn't help but post my experience due to my similar qualifications. Best of luck to your daughter!
 
sasasa said:
Thank you all so much! you guys have given us so much hope :) .As parents,We are going to help her in every way we can.
Also, what would you suggest for her gap year and summer after graduation? She already applied for some research and internships and waiting to hear from them. She wants to do EMT this summer. Would that be helpful? I'm sorry for too many questions.
Click to expand...

That's what SDN is for. We are here to help.

For her gap year, anything is fine, as long as its relevant to medicine (research, volunteering, pretty much any EC). If she is lacking in any area (clinical volunteering/experience, shadowing, non clinical volunteering) she should try her best to pursue that.
 
TwinnyVinny said:
Pretty sure around 80% of applicants with a 3.7 GPA & 36 MCAT got into an allopathic medical school. A research publication and clinical volunteer experience in Africa sounds like above average extracurriculars to me also.

That said, don't be shy about applying to a healthy number of schools. I have a 3.64 cGPA, 3.45 science GPA, 36 MCAT and I was rejected from 25 schools last year. Only received 1 interview this year out of 18 schools. I have clinical experience at a local hospital, hospice, and free health clinic. Hoping to generate a 1st author publication out of my current basic science research experience. Couldn't help but post my experience due to my similar qualifications. Best of luck to your daughter!
Click to expand...

with your stats, i am surprised that you didnt get in last cycle and isnt getting a lot of love this cycle.
 
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