Michigan Pediatrician Refuses to Treat Lesbian Couple's Baby

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It's ok to enforce your opinion on others, but as soon as someone else does you're on the charge of the moral light brigade.
Time for you practice that tolerance you want others to submit to.
What are you talking about? All of medical professionalism is an opinion then. It's still enforced by state medical boards. I think you're attributing motivations and opinions to me that I don't hold.

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What are you talking about? All of medical professionalism is an opinion then. It's still enforced by state medical boards. I think you're attributing motivations and opinions to me that I don't hold.
kitteninshoe-meme-generator-i-have-no-idea-what-you-re-talking-about-so-here-s-a-picture-of-a-kitten-in-a-shoe-d50590.jpg
 
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While I do love the cute picture, my point is what she did to that family after they interviewed and filtered thru many pediatricians , both accepted eachother, had a prenatal pediatrician visit, and then suddenly drop them the day of the 6 day visit to suddenly be stuck with someone else they didn't want, was unprofessional. It hits at the core of medical professionalism - that u wouldn't treat and evaluate a 6 day old baby, who u interviewed with and accepted, bc her parents happen to be lesbians. It is the action here.

The family had to then call around and directly ask each provider if it's ok that they're lesbians, even though medical care is for their daughter.
 
While I do love the cute picture, my point is what she did to that family after they interviewed and filtered thru many pediatricians , both accepted eachother, had a prenatal pediatrician visit, and then suddenly drop them the day of the 6 day visit to suddenly be stuck with someone else they didn't want, was unprofessional. It hits at the core of medical professionalism - that u wouldn't treat and evaluate a 6 day old baby, who u interviewed with and accepted, bc her parents happen to be lesbians. It is the action here.

The family had to then call around and directly ask each provider if it's ok that they're lesbians, even though medical care is for their daughter.

In your opinion - as you stated earlier. Again, you fail to consider others and their beliefs only being satisfied that yours is the only moral compass to guide decisions.
If you're going to preach, then you'd better start practicing.....
 
In your opinion - as you stated earlier. Again, you fail to consider others and their beliefs only being satisfied that yours is the only moral compass to guide decisions.
If you're going to preach, then you'd better start practicing.....
I stated that it is my opinion, to be nice, and not get attacked. You can test out this scenario with a complaint to the medical board under medical professionalism and let me know which side they rule on.
 
No thanks. The board or society doesn't need to be involved.

/mic drop
Is that your answer? Your meme made more sense. Do u really not see any ethical, moral, or professionalism concern in this case?
 
Is that your answer? Your meme made more sense. Do u really not see any ethical, moral, or professionalism concern in this case?

What is it that you think medical boards do? File your complaint with the board in this case. They are not going to do anything to this physician. Bring awkward in communication is not the same as unprofessional. There wasn't a single medical ethical violation in this case anywhere.

I know this case drives the social justice warriors nuts. Punish her. She must be punished. But for what? Because she has an opinion you don't like. That's it.
 
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No thanks. The board or society doesn't need to be involved.

/mic drop

The Michigan board's mailbox is probably maxed out with complaints about the doctor from all over the world, and calls for board members to resign or be fired if they don't declare her a public menace and yank her license asap. There will be protests outside her office and residence. Haters must be destroyed as an example to others.
 
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My attention span is too short for following two threads.

TP, please PM me if y'all manage to solve this non-crisis.
 
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What is it that you think medical boards do? File your complaint with the board in this case. They are not going to do anything to this physician. Bring awkward in communication is not the same as unprofessional. There wasn't a single medical ethical violation in this case anywhere.

I know this case drives the social justice warriors nuts. Punish her. She must be punished. But for what? Because she has an opinion you don't like. That's it.
You think her error here is being awkward in communication?
 
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I think if she would have communicated with the parents better, we wouldn't be having this conversation
I disagree, the baker communicated and so did the florist...

If she was going to backout her error was admitting why (best case would be to not back out)
 
I disagree, the baker communicated and so did the florist...

If she was going to backout her error was admitting why (best case would be to not back out)
The baker was a complete dick. I mean communicate without being a complete dick.
 
I think if she would have communicated with the parents better, we wouldn't be having this conversation
Yes, by not accepting in the first place. She knew they were lesbians when they interviewed her and she accepted.
 
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I'm not sure it's possible to "communicate" in these situations without the release of the outrage hounds.

I think if you're honest you'll agree.
I've given a script about 6 different times about a way the doc could have communicated that wouldn't be as inflammatory as what she did. I'm getting sick of repeating myself
 
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I've given a script about 6 different times about a way the doc could have communicated that wouldn't be as inflammatory as what she did. I'm getting sick of repeating myself

and your prescription for the florist that got sued after doing years of business for a man and then politely turning down his wedding...only to get sued?
 
and your prescription for the florist that got sued after doing years of business for a man and then politely turning down his wedding...only to get sued?
Honestly I know essentially nothing about the florist case so I can't speak to that
 
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I've given a script about 6 different times about a way the doc could have communicated that wouldn't be as inflammatory as what she did. I'm getting sick of repeating myself
I think you're missing the point. The doc could have handled this better, but telling the parents that she couldn't treat the child because the parents are lesbians would result in outrage no matter how nicely you say it.
 
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I think you're missing the point. The doc could have handled this better, but telling the parents that she couldn't treat the child because the parents are lesbians would result in outrage no matter how nicely you say it.
Well duh, that's why you don't say that.
 
I think you're missing the point. The doc could have handled this better, but telling the parents that she couldn't treat the child because the parents are lesbians would result in outrage no matter how nicely you say it.
So then why accept them post-interview and do a prenatal visit? She knew from the very beginning they were gay.
 
Honestly I know essentially nothing about the florist case so I can't speak to that

You keeping assigning calm and logic to people as though they won't get mad and sue if they get turned away because of their orientation as long it's polite.....we both know that's ridiculous
 
If say I didn't want to treat someone because they were a christian fundamentalist (I wouldn't refuse, but whatever) I sure as shet wouldn't say, "I'm not going to be your kid's doc because of your religion"

If I did you bet your arse they would be going to the papers saying this and my face would be on Fox News
 
You keeping assigning calm and logic to people as though they won't get mad and sue if they get turned away because of their orientation as long it's polite.....we both know that's ridiculous
No, what I'm saying is that you can refuse politely without saying the exact reason why.
 
I've given a script about 6 different times about a way the doc could have communicated that wouldn't be as inflammatory as what she did. I'm getting sick of repeating myself

I'm not suggesting you repeat yourself. I'm suggesting it really would not have really mattered *how* it was said.
 
No, what I'm saying is that you can refuse politely without saying the exact reason why.

I think we were speaking past each other....when you said if "she communicated better" and then said the baker got into trouble for being a dick, it really seemed you thought niceities would have solved this. It seems like you agree with jdh that the only way to maybe survive turning down service in this case would be to lie 100% through your teeth and never let the real reason be remotely hinted at
 
Annnnnnddd.

I think my point stand soundly unrefuted.

Ugh. Do you always have to do this?
I think we agree. You don't have to be a cock about it
 
I think we were speaking past each other....when you said if "she communicated better" and then said the baker got into trouble for being a dick, it really seemed you thought niceities would have solved this. It seems like you agree with jdh that the only way to maybe survive turning down service in this case would be to lie 100% through your teeth and never let the real reason be remotely hinted at
You never lie 100%
You tell 75 % of the truth and just leave out a few critical details.
 
If say I didn't want to treat someone because they were a christian fundamentalist (I wouldn't refuse, but whatever) I sure as shet wouldn't say, "I'm not going to be your kid's doc because of your religion"

If I did you bet your arse they would be going to the papers saying this and my face would be on Fox News

you absolutely would end up on the news...which proves my point that the market can address these issues. I wouldn't support a religious couple suing you
 
you absolutely would end up on the news...which proves my point that the market can address these issues. I wouldn't support a religious couple suing you

I agree. Although a religious couple would have more grounds because religion is an actual protected class.
But I would never say that to someone because I'd be smart enough to cover my bum
 
I agree. Although a religious couple would have more grounds because religion is an actual protected class.
But I would never say that to someone because I'd be smart enough to cover my bum

I get that the religious would have legal grounds, but they shouldn't have legal grounds. protect class legislation is a bad idea, it's more thought police mess
 
I get that the religious would have legal grounds, but they shouldn't have legal grounds. protect class legislation is a bad idea, it's more thought police mess
Eh... that I disagree with, because too many people are dinguses basically. But I get why you think that way
 
So then why accept them post-interview and do a prenatal visit? She knew from the very beginning they were gay.
That part has kinda confused me as well. As best I can tell, after the prenatal visit she prayed on it and decided she couldn't care for the kid after all but that's pure conjecture on my part.
 
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That part has kinda confused me as well. As best I can tell, after the prenatal visit she prayed on it and decided she couldn't care for the kid after all but that's pure conjecture on my part.
And thats the issue. That is why i am shaking my head that this is bc of her opinion and not action. There are several "checkpoints" in which she could have said no in which there would not have been a problem. The prenatal visit established a relationship with this family. She was a devout Christian before this and knew they were gay. The family went thru all that trouble so that they wpuldn't have the situation that ended up happening anyways.
 
And thats the issue. That is why i am shaking my head that this is bc of her opinion and not action. There are several "checkpoints" in which she could have said no in which there would not have been a problem. The prenatal visit established a relationship with this family. She was a devout Christian before this and knew they were gay. The family went thru all that trouble so that they wpuldn't have the situation that ended up happening anyways.

So you're seriously blaming her for giving them a chance? She initially tried to be their doctor and realized eventually that she couldn't do it. I would never have done what she did, but she has every right to do what she did.
 
So you're seriously blaming her for giving them a chance? She initially tried to be their doctor and realized eventually that she couldn't do it. I would never have done what she did, but she has every right to do what she did.
Yeah I'm sure they tried to use gay voodoo on her during the prenatal visit. There were certain checkpoints where she would have been fine. She missed those checkpoints.
 
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Yeah I'm sure they tried to use gay voodoo on her during the prenatal visit. There were certain checkpoints where she would have been fine. She missed those checkpoints.

A doctor or a patient does not have any "checkpoint" when it comes to ending a relationship. Any time that either party feels the relationship cannot continue, it is the best interest of both parties to end it. Like I said, I disagree with what she did, but you cannot mandate a person's beliefs.
 
A doctor or a patient does not have any "checkpoint" when it comes to ending a relationship. Any time that either party feels the relationship cannot continue, it is the best interest of both parties to end it. Like I said, I disagree with what she did, but you cannot mandate a person's beliefs.
There are specific procedures in place to ending that relationship properly. detailed by the AMA's Code of Ethics.
 
From the AMA website, the only thing I could find. Not that the AMA is the end all and e all organization for physicians, as a lot are not necessarily even members. I'm not sure that there is a specific list of checkpoints at which time she's ok and not ok to terminate a relationship with the parents. All I can see is that she did everything written on the AMA website that was required of her.


"
Patient Relationship - Termination
How can I "terminate" a patient from my practice?

In order to terminate a patient/physician relationship, it is recommended that you notify the patient in writing of your decision and give the patient their recommendations for physicians who can be contacted. If the patient is currently being treated by the physician for an acute illness, it is recommended that the physician wait to discharge the patient until the patient has completed treatment and is stable.
"
 
From the AMA website, the only thing I could find. Not that the AMA is the end all and e all organization for physicians, as a lot are not necessarily even members. I'm not sure that there is a specific list of checkpoints at which time she's ok and not ok to terminate a relationship with the parents. All I can see is that she did everything written on the AMA website that was required of her.


"
Patient Relationship - Termination
How can I "terminate" a patient from my practice?

In order to terminate a patient/physician relationship, it is recommended that you notify the patient in writing of your decision and give the patient their recommendations for physicians who can be contacted. If the patient is currently being treated by the physician for an acute illness, it is recommended that the physician wait to discharge the patient until the patient has completed treatment and is stable.
"

@charmiedermie might want to read something before you cite it as a source to make sure that it doesn't completely contradict what you said
 
I'm not sure if you're just making things up in your mind to support your personal beliefs about what the doctor should've done. Maybe there is some code of ethics that she's supposed to follow from some organization that she may not even be a part of, I haven't seen you offer any proof. Just seen you get into a little bit of righteous indignation because you don't like discrimination at all, despite the fact that it's a spectrum with no clear demarcating points on when it's ok and not ok to see a patient (with EM being the only exception I know as it is federally mandated you see everyone who shows up and treat any acute conditions regardless of pretty much anything). I mean, sure, you can make up a demarcation point of what's ok and what's not ok, but I'm not sure there is a cut off that exists. I'm personally appalled at the doctor's decision, but that's emotions, not professional guidelines.
 
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I'm not sure if you're just making things up in your mind to support your personal beliefs about what the doctor should've done. Maybe there is some code of ethics that she's supposed to follow from some organization that she may not even be a part of, I haven't seen you offer any proof. Just seen you get into a little bit of righteous indignation because you don't like discrimination at all, despite the fact that it's a spectrum with no clear demarcating points on when it's ok and not ok to see a patient (with EM being the only exception I know as it is federally mandated you see everyone who shows up and treat any acute conditions regardless of pretty much anything). I mean, sure, you can make up a demarcation point of what's ok and what's not ok, but I'm not sure there is a cut off that exists. I'm personally appalled at the doctor's decision, but that's emotions, not professional guidelines.
I didn't say the AMA had checkpoints. I said in this specific case there were, where she would not have gotten the blowback she did.
 
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