Michael Moore's SIKCO

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WOW. And YOU Want become a doctor? Hopefully the med-school will recondnize you for what you are.

Relax, pal. This isn't a fantastical, magical profession where everybody has the same opinion. Some people don't enjoy big government. Anything beyond that is a value argument, which is a personal choice.

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WOW. And YOU Want become a doctor? Hopefully the med-school will recondnize you for who you are, camapasion is a part of job description. Clearly you lack it.
Explain to me how you can tell how compassionate I am based on me presenting a simple fact about healthcare? Is there something untrue about what I said?
 
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Probably not in texas, but in states where they adequetely fund the school system, yes, public schools are every bit as good as, and usually better, than private schools

oh no. :bullcrap: i went to both, in new england, which is known for its school systems. private is MUCH better.

that being said, from what little i've seen, people have a lot of disposable income. if they do institute a gov't program, i'd hope they penalize people who have the newest sneakers, cellphones, TVs and still use the ER as their primary.
 
oh no. :bullcrap: i went to both, in new england, which is known for its school systems. private is MUCH better.

Maybe, but it seems like you came to that conclusion based on your personal experiences.

My public school had a very rigorous curriculum and a lot of people go to ivies and other great schools from it. A nearby private school that my friends went to however, did nothing but teach new-age BS. Nobody I know who went there broke 1000 on their SATs because the school did such a crappy job keeping up w/ educational standards. They taught one of my friends that AIDS is a conspiracy and that HIV doesn't exist. Despite it all, the school still costs a fortune.

My point is that you can't make a blanket statement about all public schools based on personal experiences (just like you shouldn't make a decision on how you feel about healthcare based on a few anecdotes from a Michael Moore movie :D )
 
WOW. And YOU Want become a doctor? Hopefully the med-school will recondnize you for who you are, camapasion is a part of job description. Clearly you lack it.

oh ****... we have our latest premed newbie to break out the SDN "you'll be a bad doctor" cliche...

/don't let reality hit you too hard once you get here.
 
Maybe, but it seems like you came to that conclusion based on your personal experiences.

My public school had a very rigorous curriculum and a lot of people go to ivies and other great schools from it. A nearby private school that my friends went to however, did nothing but teach new-age BS. Nobody I know who went there broke 1000 on their SATs because the school did such a crappy job keeping up w/ educational standards. They taught one of my friends that AIDS is a conspiracy and that HIV doesn't exist. Despite it all, the school still costs a fortune.

My point is that you can't make a blanket statement about all public schools based on personal experiences (just like you shouldn't make a decision on how you feel about healthcare based on a few anecdotes from a Michael Moore movie :D )

Ironically enough we had plenty of kids from Michael Moore's district in my HS... (moore went to public school... ;))
 
It's still a fact, isn't it?

Facts are emotionless. You can't tell if I agree or disagree with something if I'm simply stating facts.

I think in the original context, it didnt seem like a "fact" but your opinion.

If you say that you said that as a "fact", then I guess it is a "fact".
 
I think in the original context, it didnt seem like a "fact" but your opinion.

If you say that you said that as a "fact", then I guess it is a "fact".
Take it however you want. Someone said healthcare "should be a right," and I rebutted that it was a right, but the issue is with paying for service, not with getting permission to use the system.

If knowing that makes me a heartless pre-med, I'm guilty.
 
you both are working at polar extremes...

govt programs exist to assist the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder already, no one is saying get rid of those (unless armybound is one of those extreme libertarian types...who knows...) but to switch to a completely government run system would be kinda like the government suddenly saying "everyone is now required to get thier education from their local public school district"... If you think the system is bad now, just wait for the red tape headaches and the underfunding that is to come. Even Canada is moving more and more private. The supreme court ruled against a Quebec law preventing private insurers from opening up shop in the province.

and btw, for whaever naive person said it... "not for profit" in no way guarantees a better system than private insurance. Once the system starts spending more money than it recieves (which will probably be day 1), you'll see the same 'sicko-style' problems you saw with the privates.

/Davision HS still sucks.
//Go Chargers.
 
you both are working at polar extremes...

govt programs exist to assist the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder already, no one is saying get rid of those (unless armybound is one of those extreme libertarian types...who knows...) but to switch to a completely government run system would be kinda like the government suddenly saying "everyone is now required to get thier education from their local public school district"... If you think the system is bad now, just wait for the red tape headaches and the underfunding that is to come. Even Canada is moving more and more private. The supreme court ruled against a Quebec law preventing private insurers from opening up shop in the province.

and btw, for whaever naive person said it... "not for profit" in no way guarantees a better system than private insurance. Once the system starts spending more money than it recieves (which will probably be day 1), you'll see the same 'sicko-style' problems you saw with the privates.

/Davision HS still sucks.
//Go Chargers.

Please elaborate...
 
Speaking on free healthcare. Perhaps not having free healthcare is a trade off we have to make here in the US for all the bustling economy, military prowess, and freedom of this, freedom of that.

I mean, all those nations or states with free healthcare do not rank as high in the world power as the US. Hope I have made some sense.
 
Speaking on free healthcare. Perhaps not having free healthcare is a trade off we have to make here in the US for all the bustling economy, military prowess, and freedom of this, freedom of that.

I mean, all those nations or states with free healthcare do not rank as high in the world power as the US. Hope I have made some sense.

That doesn't explain why we spend more per capita than any other country in the world on health care yet we don't insure all Americans at the same time...it's a problem with wasteful spending as a result of a fee-for-service payment system we've grown to love.
 
I agree. With a few exceptions, like some cosmetic surgeries, access to medical care should be a right, not a privilege.

edit: even if one in need of such care has no money. For example, a homeless person with a broken leg and no money should be treated.


Based on the ideas behind our constitution, healthcare can never be a right because it is dependent on a service from another human being. Thus it has the potential to infringe on someone else's rights. Anything that infringes on another's rights cannot be your right.

But, while it can't be a right, that doesn't mean that it is not ethically sound to provide a base level of health care for everyone.

You seem to oppose access to free, universal, public health care. How do you feel about access to free, universal, public education? Would you say that these two issues are similar? Why or why not?

You are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Compulsory education is not about giving people education for their benefit; it is much larger than that. Our education system it is about educating the public so that they can participate in and CONTROL their gov't. Education wasn't meant to be a hand out from gov't but a check and balance for their power.

WOW. And YOU Want become a doctor? Hopefully the med-school will recondnize you for who you are, camapasion is a part of job description. Clearly you lack it.

Ha

Probably not in texas, but in states where they adequetely fund the school system, yes, public schools are every bit as good as, and usually better, than private schools

With the exception of the Governor's schools and the New age Private schools, private schools in Va generally give you a better education than their public counterparts.
 
i don't think i've ever seen the word "compassion" spelled wrong so many times...geez!
 
The best thing that we, as future healthcare practitioners, can do is independently evaluate healthcare research reports, present them to each other in an objective manner, and refrain from offering our subjective opinions about what we need to fix the system. It is our obligation to critique the system together through a collective discussion of mutual exchange of the various reports that no one person can investigate alone. It is rather ignorant to say that X will fix the system. Rather, because it is not the responsibility of you and I to fix the system at present, drawing such conclusions is a conversation killer.

With that said, here is a little bit of history I read in A Call to Action, concerning the beginning of employee paid healthcare as we know it today. Pre-WWII, health insurance was non-existant. During the war, as is always the case, the US sent millions of its laborers to the frontlines, and America faced a massive labor shortage. In an attempt to control wages from sky rocketing, the government initiated a wage freeze on all employers. In response to this freeze, employers began offering competitive benefits to entice employees to work for them, the company with the greatest employee benefits recieved the most amount of employees in the labor shortage. Makes sense, right? When employee paid healthcare was introduced during this period, the US government viewed it favorably, subsidized the employers who offered healthcare benefits, and thus began the modern employee paid healthcare system.


I will add that in Sicko, Michael Moore made it clear that he was for universal healthcare and his evidence was based on a rather limited number of cases involving access within the US, systems external to the US, corruption within the insurance industry, and patient satisfaction overall. I found his movie compelling, but wanting for a more rigorous and scientific approach to assessing managed healthcare.

I would be interested in knowing whether USC does, in fact, partake in relocating uninsured patients to skid row hospital on a regular basis and under what premises. Anyone read about this?
 
Wow, I've never heard of that. That's pretty cool. Quite frankly, I don't think that is true.

As far as stance, I'm still thinking. I believe everyone should receive minimum healthcare when needed. I have yet to determine what minimum means though.


The fact that many physicians will provide care for free or at a reduced price is COMPLETELY true. I worked for a physician billing service for 3 years and I can't even count the number of times entire bills were written off by both the physicians and hospital if the patient just sent in a hardship letter explaining his/herself. These needed to be legitimate, but not neccessarily desparate. For example, a man who couldn't afford his medical bills because of his million dollar mortgage and yacht payments was denied write-off, but an independent college student working three jobs just to pay tuition was granted full write-off. The system is not that evil if you just become educated. Also, I think that more people need to be aware of the fact that no emergency room (at least in OH and KY, but I think in the entire country) can turn someone away for not being able to pay. They are required by law to treat you!
 
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