Medicaid

[SHC1984]

Do you want to know how the fraud happens? I'll tell you how.

People sit down and take notes because they don't tell you this at the medicaid office. A4MD if you wanna delete or modify this then go ahead. I've been in the system and know some people who are that need it (and obtained legitimately), but if you want free gov't medicaid this is how to do it.

The system asks that you provide a dollar amount that you make by asking for the last month's wages. For people who work a variable-hour job then you just give them the checks with the least number of hours in a month (good for retail.) For the people who work 2+ jobs, they say they only work 1 job and give the hours with the least number of hours and say that is their primary job. For people who are unmarried they don't provide the income of the people who live with them such as boyfriends/girlfriends/babby daddys/mommas. If you have multiples of the aforementioned it gets lucrative since you have multiple SOs (although morally bankrupt in some circumstances.) If you REALLY want to get creative then you can get someone to write a letter on official looking letterhead saying you work for them and give wage amounts. The medicaid office is technically able to look at the board of labor and verify employment but they only do that really at renewal or if you give them reason to suspect fraud.

So yes there are ways to fraud the system, SHC. But look at the ways it happens; you work multiple jobs to survive, have multiple kids with multiple parents, are college students, etc. So the people trying to fraud the system are really people who could use the help more than others anyway; the government would have tried to assist them if they had more of a budget. The medicaid system has to reject people based on who is the poorest of the poor using a hierarchy/ranking system to check who makes the least and then work up from there.

Just don't tell anyone this; this i part of the medicaid crew and it's an exclusive club where even the top members are still struggling to survive.

EDIT: This is an honest-to-god thing. Not joking, this is how it happens. At least in my country and some surrounding counties. Also, the dollar amount they give for foodstamps is based on poverty levels for what it takes to eat nutritious food for families of certain sizes.

Thanks for the info! LOL...the point is the government should give out ITEMS that people need and therefore it would be harder to abuse.

I also know the unemployment benefits are easy to abuse too! I know a guy that has been on that for like 2+ years. He works for 2 weeks, quits and then file for unemployment...when his unemployment is almost out...he gets a new job works another 2 weeks and then quits again and applies again. They really need to limit that to 6 months IN YOUR LIFETIME.

I think the government give out too much, too easily.

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[All4MyDaughter]

Okay, maybe not 100K, but I have seen them drive nice cars like BMW, Corvette, Lexus, Land Rover, etc. These people obviously shouldn't be on medicaid. If you are on medicaid you should be really poor and unable to afford a car. If you can afford to drive a BMW, you can afford to pay for private health insurance and not be on medicaid.

You haven't seen medicaid patients drive BMW pull up at the drive thru? Look next time!!!!

You do not think the government is giving too much? you don't think the system is too easily abused and that they should find a way to make it harder to abuse?

I have to give you credit for pure gumption. You've been caught talking about stuff you know nothing about, not knowing the facts of how government programs work and exaggerating. Still you persist.

To answer your question, I would be in favor of measures that improve the integrity of the system. But I don't think that "abuse" is as rampant or as widespread as you suggest. I also don't think that from your limited experience (and VERY VERY biased viewpoint) you have the ability or objectivity to make any assertions about what works or doesn't work within the system. A few months in a pharmacy doesn't mean anything.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

Thanks for the info! LOL...the point is the government should give out ITEMS that people need and therefore it would be harder to abuse.

I also know the unemployment benefits are easy to abuse too! I know a guy that has been on that for like 2+ years. He works for 2 weeks, quits and then file for unemployment...when his unemployment is almost out...he gets a new job works another 2 weeks and then quits again and applies again. They really need to limit that to 6 months IN YOUR LIFETIME.

I think the government give out too much, too easily.

I don't know a whole lot about unemployment as a whole, whether it is state or nationally run or combined in some fashion. However, in NC the way it works is that you have to work for 90 days and then NOT be fired for a fault of your own. The only exception that can be with that I believe is if there are major lay-offs in the company, it was a temp job, etc. but the company has to explain why and that is more work than they usually want to do. (Again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I only have HR for a few companies to go off of with this). Also, according to the unemployment websites I looked at, the unemployment benefits is a percentage of what you made that year. So if you took a few ****y jobs every couple of weeks and then got laid off, I doubt you're rolling in the big bucks. You also had to be employed a certain amount out of X quarters (4 of the last 5 maybe?) in order to qualify. So there are failsafes for unemployment and the amount isn't a huge bit. But I will agree though that some people can abuse that, but that is a different system and the economy fluctuations changes how unemployment works IMO (no data off my head to back that up.)

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I also know the unemployment benefits are easy to abuse too! I know a guy that has been on that for like 2+ years. He works for 2 weeks, quits and then file for unemployment...when his unemployment is almost out...he gets a new job works another 2 weeks and then quits again and applies again. They really need to limit that to 6 months IN YOUR LIFETIME.

Stop. Just stop. You don't know anything. You can't QUIT a job and then file for unemployment. It doesn't work that way.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

The government tries to provide some semblance of a reasonable standard of living with the food. If people want to undercut that and make it last longer/spend it all at once on expensive items, then go ahead. Some people don't know how to budget. This is more of an observation for you SHC because I agree that some people suck at using the money they are given in a way that benefits them. I would personally budget down and make it last all month and if I had a few dollars left I would use it for food for the following month and keep a leg up. But that's me, and if one month I have a few dollars for a steak then I would buy it.

The average food stamp benefit is something like $100/month per recipient. It ain't much. If people really are eating steak and Papa Murphy's Pizza (as someone else suggested) then they are going hungry more days than they are eating large.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

The average food stamp benefit is something like $100/month per recipient. It ain't much. If people really are eating steak and Papa Murphy's Pizza (as someone else suggested) then they are going hungry more days than they are eating large.

I concur. However, from what social workers told me the foodstamps are allocated as a budget for the state and then they divide that by the projected "units" for the year (units mean number of people in the family being provided, etc.). The average is about 5 dollars per day for people who are unemployed or make too few per year. In some counties it might be closer to 6-8 dollars per day (closer to 240) but those are counties where the food stamp usage is low and then it will more than likely be decreased later.

I wish I had a friend who was a social worker who could let me know how this works. I plan to keep their numbers in my pharmacy along with free programs, clinics, brand assistant programs, and the like. I did it as a pharm. tech but the DM said I couldn't do it without a pharmacist's permission and it took too much time as a tech to educate a patient with our script count (*sigh*)

 

[confettiflyer]

FOR GODS SAKE. I am getting so tired of people making this point when it has been CLEARLY stated several times in this thread that TANF and Medicaid benefits ARE TIME LIMITED. Anyone who can work or go to school is expected to do so and they are entitled to a set number of years of benefits. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Okay maybe my google zen is not working here, but I've gone through about 3 states' medicaid websites and cannot find any type of school/work requirement imposed on non-disabled persons. I can only find income thresholds and the fact that you are "reassessed" every year roughly. I can't even find a time limit, I've been using these search terms: "medicaid work requirement" "medicaid time limit" "medicaid assistance limit" and "medicaid requirements" if that helps.

state specific, perhaps?

 

[Jabberwocky12]

Okay maybe my google zen is not working here, but I've gone through about 3 states' medicaid websites and cannot find any type of school/work requirement imposed on non-disabled persons. I can only find income thresholds and the fact that you are "reassessed" every year roughly. I can't even find a time limit, I've been using these search terms: "medicaid work requirement" "medicaid time limit" "medicaid assistance limit" and "medicaid requirements" if that helps.

state specific, perhaps?

Typically, yes. The trick is that it's relative. They compare the people and rank lowest income first (from what I understand.) So it's relative, hence the assessment. If you make some income but don't change in rank then you probably aren't going to change in benefits. Each state and county probably have requirements from the state and allocations.

 

[confettiflyer]

Typically, yes. The trick is that it's relative. They compare the people and rank lowest income first (from what I understand.) So it's relative, hence the assessment. If you make some income but don't change in rank then you probably aren't going to change in benefits. Each state and county probably have requirements from the state and allocations.

yes....but is there or is there not a work/school requirement if you're able bodied?

 

[Jabberwocky12]

yes....but is there or is there not a work/school requirement if you're able bodied?

to keep/maintain medicaid?

Typically the people who need it the most are the ones who aren't working. I believe you have to be actively looking but the problem is that people who are working make too much and the people going to school aren't able to work. I think some places have specific statutes for people going to school because they can't work to get off of it (and I would assume part of the reasoning is the ability to purchase health insurance while you are there via financial aid.)

I know when I was going to school and was unemployed I tried to get utility assistance but the place said I couldn't do it because I went to a school where I could have lived there so I wasn't eligible. I would assume other places might be like, too. This is probably just a way to weed out people who might not need the limited funds and assistance as others.

 

[confettiflyer]

Cars are a bad example, financially savvy people don't spend $75k on a depreciating asset.

However, I did see a lot of medicaid recipients fully decked out/dressed up/carrying expensive handbags and buying all sorts of random CVS non-essential crap balking at their $2 copay or something. It's like...you spent more on your manicure and hair, what the hell is your problem.

They also, on average, had the nastiest attitudes.

So really, it wasn't really abuse of the system...more along the lines of financial irresponsibility demonstrated that makes it appear to be a waste.

Bet you if kids in rags and dirt on their faces (a la A Christmas Carol or Oliver Twist) came in barefoot picking up their asthma meds with sally struthers herding them in and out...this wouldn't be so much an issue.

Attitude and image does play a part, and I admit it has colored my view on assistance programs in general...I'm only human.

 

[confettiflyer]

to keep/maintain medicaid?

Typically the people who need it the most are the ones who aren't working. I believe you have to be actively looking but the problem is that people who are working make too much and the people going to school aren't able to work. I think some places have specific statutes for people going to school because they can't work to get off of it (and I would assume part of the reasoning is the ability to purchase health insurance while you are there via financial aid.)

I know when I was going to school and was unemployed I tried to get utility assistance but the place said I couldn't do it because I went to a school where I could have lived there so I wasn't eligible. I would assume other places might be like, too. This is probably just a way to weed out people who might not need the limited funds and assistance as others.

Yes...All4 mentioned it and I was caught off guard a bit, I had never ever heard of a requirement like that for medicaid. I have for unemployment (you need to be actively looking and/or attend some retraining programs), but not for medicaid. As far as I know the system, it's purely need based w/ a few qualifiers depending on the state (ie you need to have kids/be pregnant, be completely disabled, etc...).

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Okay maybe my google zen is not working here, but I've gone through about 3 states' medicaid websites and cannot find any type of school/work requirement imposed on non-disabled persons. I can only find income thresholds and the fact that you are "reassessed" every year roughly. I can't even find a time limit, I've been using these search terms: "medicaid work requirement" "medicaid time limit" "medicaid assistance limit" and "medicaid requirements" if that helps.

state specific, perhaps?

No, it's federal and the key is how one becomes ELIGIBLE for Medicaid. Under current eligibility guidelines, there are limited ways an able bodied adult can even RECEIVE Medicaid. It does not cover EVERY poor person, despite commonly held misconceptions.

Did you look at that eligibility criteria I linked from CMS way upthread? The main eligibility groups are:

• Limited income families with children - must meet AFDC/TANF guidelines which have work requirements and time limits - the PARENTS are the "able bodied" adults I've been talking about
• SSI recipients - disabled, therefore no time limits and no work requirements - not considered "able bodied"
• Infants born to Medicaid eligible women - obviously not subject to work requirements
• Children under age 6 and pregnant women whose family income is at or below 133% of the Federal poverty level - obviously not limited for children (and no work requirement) but limited for the adult female by pregnancy status
• Recipients of adoption assistance and foster care under Title IV-E of the Social Security Act - children
• Certain people with Medicare - the indigent elderly
• Special protected groups who may keep Medicaid for a period of time - follow the link for more info on these groups - some able bodied adults would fall into this group but there are time limits

So (in general) able bodied adults can get into Medicaid if they are on TANF, but TANF itself is time limited and has work/school requirements. So it's not a "Medicaid work requirement." It's a TANF requirement and no TANF = no more Medicaid.

It's correct to say that the vast majority of Medicaid recipients have no work requirements and no time limits. I've never claimed otherwise. We're talking ELDERLY, DISABLED and CHILDREN. But for able bodied adults, who can only get Medicaid unless they have TANF or are members of a protected group, there are work requirements and time limits.
Hope that makes sense.

 

[rxlea]

Are you SURE they weren't knock off "designer" items? Because I saw plenty of that when I worked in retail. Have you ever lived in a ghetto? Everyone knows who sells the "knock off" items- and they are cheap. Why not do your best to dress up a bit? It may be their only pleasure in life. You have NO idea what their story is and if the highlight of their week is that they went and bought a bunch of little items at a CVS, then so be it.

As for the time limit/looking for work requirement for medicaid, it does exist. Why don't you give your DES a call and report back to us? The prejudice and outright lack of compassion for others in this thread is disturbing and it makes me sad that many of you with seemingly good heads on your shoulders are going to be out "advocating" for patients someday. Sad. You guys need to get a little bit more life experience before you pass these judgments. Who do you think supports your ass through school? Could you afford to pay out of pocket for your education? Or does the government subsidize you? Maybe you should be in rags instead of sucking off the government teat, then. Quit buying your iPods and Droid phones with our tax dollars!

 

[Jabberwocky12]

No, it's federal and the key is how one becomes ELIGIBLE for Medicaid. Under current eligibility guidelines, there are limited ways an able bodied adult can even RECEIVE Medicaid. It does not cover EVERY poor person, despite commonly held misconceptions.

Did you look at that eligibility criteria I linked from CMS way upthread? The main eligibility groups are:

• Limited income families with children - must meet AFDC/TANF guidelines which have work requirements and time limits - the PARENTS are the "able bodied" adults I've been talking about
• SSI recipients - disabled, therefore no time limits and no work requirements - not considered "able bodied"
• Infants born to Medicaid eligible women - obviously not subject to work requirements
• Children under age 6 and pregnant women whose family income is at or below 133% of the Federal poverty level - obviously not limited for children (and no work requirement) but limited for the adult female by pregnancy status
• Recipients of adoption assistance and foster care under Title IV-E of the Social Security Act - children
• Certain people with Medicare - the indigent elderly
• Special protected groups who may keep Medicaid for a period of time - follow the link for more info on these groups - some able bodied adults would fall into this group but there are time limits

So (in general) able bodied adults can get into Medicaid if they are on TANF, but TANF itself is time limited and has work/school requirements. So it's not a "Medicaid work requirement." It's a TANF requirement and no TANF = no more Medicaid.

Hope that makes sense.

Those are the official guidelines. I have found that exceptions can be made though. But that does sound about right. The hard thing to mention though is that they still rank the people who qualify and give them to the most needy first. At least from what I have been told from a social worker...

Another thing that can help speed the process is getting medicaid if you are in the hospital for a serious condition. then you would get an expedited assistance with medicaid and they would backdate to the date of service.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Those are the official guidelines. I have found that exceptions can be made though. But that does sound about right. The hard thing to mention though is that they still rank the people who qualify and give them to the most needy first. At least from what I have been told from a social worker...

Another thing that can help speed the process is getting medicaid if you are in the hospital for a serious condition. then you would get an expedited assistance with medicaid and they would backdate to the date of service.

I don't know. My father (age 58), who was completely disabled and waiting for benefits was in the hospital with a very serious condition was not eligible for Medicaid. Notice he does not fit into any of those mandatory eligibility groups... By a miracle/luck I was able to get him veterans benefits. He'd been turned down for those several times too. If there is an Easy Street out there, I've lost the directions to it.

Medicaid is NOT automatic if you are poor. At the homeless pharmacy where I worked a few months ago, about half of our patients had Medicaid, mostly because they were eligible for SSI. The other half did not qualify even though they were all almost totally indigent. The majority of those who did not qualify were single males.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

I don't know. My father (age 58), who was completely disabled and waiting for benefits was in the hospital with a very serious condition was not eligible for Medicaid. Notice he does not fit into any of those mandatory eligibility groups... By a miracle/luck I was able to get him veterans benefits. He'd been turned down for those several times too. If there is an Easy Street out there, I've lost the directions to it.

Medicaid is NOT automatic if you are poor. At the homeless pharmacy where I worked a few months ago, about half of our patients had Medicaid, mostly because they were eligible for SSI. The other half did not qualify even though they were all almost totally indigent. The majority of those who did not qualify were single males.

Yeah they definitely work to get it for families first. And being poor definitely doesn't work by itself, which is why people get mad that they don't know how to get insurance that others in similar boats managed to obtain.

 

[confettiflyer]

It's correct to say that the vast majority of Medicaid recipients have no work requirements and no time limits. I've never claimed otherwise. We're talking ELDERLY, DISABLED and CHILDREN. But for able bodied adults, who can only get Medicaid unless they have TANF or are members of a protected group, there are work requirements and time limits.
Hope that makes sense.

Ah thank you, this clears it up immensely. I was driving myself nuts looking for the link between requirements and medicaid and that little link is TANF (which i knew was time limited to begin with).

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Ah thank you, this clears it up immensely. I was driving myself nuts looking for the link between requirements and medicaid and that little link is TANF (which i knew was time limited to begin with).

Yeah, that's it. Healthy adults (and even some non-healthy people - see also...my father) can't get on Medicaid without TANF. I guess I'm just getting frustrated because people (not necessarily you) make it seem like it's super easy to get on Medicaid and once you do, it's a gravy train for life. That's so not true. There's so much misinformation, hyperbole and exaggeration in this thread that it obfuscates the otherwise legitimate discussion.

 

[rph3664]

There is no way for patients to take Medicaid payments to buy cocaine.

Actually, there is, but it's not for recreational use. If the patient had some kind of ENT procedure where the surgeon used cocaine, or a nosebleed and epinephrine failed, then Medicaid would indeed pay for it, but it's not being done for "fun".

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Actually, there is, but it's not for recreational use. If the patient had some kind of ENT procedure where the surgeon used cocaine, or a nosebleed and epinephrine failed, then Medicaid would indeed pay for it, but it's not being done for "fun".

Well, duh. But that's not what SHC was talking about, was it? She thought Medicaid gave patients cash and they could turn around and buy stuff with it. Of course, she also thought Medicaid had something to do with food.

I'd argue that having cocaine solution used in an ENT procedure is hardly analogous to "buying cocaine," but I'll give you credit for a decent attempt at nit picking/correcting me.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

There's so much misinformation, hyperbole and exaggeration in this thread that it obfuscates the otherwise legitimate discussion.

QFT!

I thought the whole part of being a scientist/learning science in college was about making informed decisions?

Part of what bothers me here the most is this: You are a medical professional whose entire job is making educated decisions and advising others. However, on this forum, people here are making close-minded decisions without all the facts and touting it as gospel. I'm bothered by the fact that you aren't willing to google some information about a public assistance program that provides a large fraction of the scripts you will be processing, yet you will be an authority figure allowing people to get medicines that could kill them. You could be wrong about something but not be willing to listen because you think it's right. Being able to take things with a grain of salt and researching to make an informed decision is what science is all about; if you have failed to learn that then I think we're missing a big point here.

 

[confettiflyer]

Are you SURE they weren't knock off "designer" items? Because I saw plenty of that when I worked in retail. Have you ever lived in a ghetto? Everyone knows who sells the "knock off" items- and they are cheap. Why not do your best to dress up a bit? It may be their only pleasure in life. You have NO idea what their story is and if the highlight of their week is that they went and bought a bunch of little items at a CVS, then so be it.

Fine, even if they were knock offs, I know hair/nails cost more than $10 even at the cheap asian places. If you're having issues affording a $2 copay, who cares if a manicure makes you feel better...you need to get your priorities in order. It's really more the attitude of entitlement that I saw in my time in retail...."i deserve this...and i'm gonna throw my manners out the window cuz you have to SERVE me."

I've lived in some strange places (some ghetto, some not), it's funny because a lot of these recipients will take the handout with one hand then criticize the government not doing anything right. Sounds like what I'm doing now, so really this is just fighting fire with fire.

As for the time limit/looking for work requirement for medicaid, it does exist. Why don't you give your DES a call and report back to us?

I fulfilled my "don't be a n00b" requirement by doing a google search and couldn't find the obscure TANF link that All4 pointed out

The prejudice and outright lack of compassion for others in this thread is disturbing and it makes me sad that many of you with seemingly good heads on your shoulders are going to be out "advocating" for patients someday. Sad. You guys need to get a little bit more life experience before you pass these judgments. Who do you think supports your ass through school? Could you afford to pay out of pocket for your education? Or does the government subsidize you? Maybe you should be in rags instead of sucking off the government teat, then. Quit buying your iPods and Droid phones with our tax dollars!

Difference is, I'm paying it back with interest, no such requirement exists for any other program. Student loans aren't student grants and aren't comparable to medicaid/TANF/etc... the former = an investment, the latter = a giveaway.

And I am being compassionate...I love my fellow countrymen/women and would rather see society progress by limiting our support for peoples' bad choices. The safety net should be drastically limited from its current scope and focus on the disabled/elderly/children because, well, we just can't afford it. While SHC's posts may be technically incorrect, I do see what she's hinting at when she says we should be handing out bags of rice, propane tanks, and tofu in lieu of any type of cash/cash-like benefit.

But anyway...it's called tough love, many of us subscribe to it and some form of SHC's ideas but like I mentioned before, you'll never know it interacting out there in the real world beyond SDN.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I fulfilled my "don't be a n00b" requirement by doing a google search and couldn't find the obscure TANF link that All4 pointed out

HEY! It wasn't that obscure! I posted it a long time ago. It was perfectly clear to ME...clearly I am superior!

EDIT: to be fair, I did assume that people understood basic stuff about Medicaid: that it's mostly for children, elderly and disabled and that there are limited ways that an able bodied adult can even obtain Medicaid benefits. But one thing this thread has taught me is that plenty of my fellow students don't know **** about ****. Not you specifically, confetti. Just a generalization.

 

[confettiflyer]

HEY! It wasn't that obscure! I posted it a long time ago. It was perfectly clear to ME...clearly I am superior!

EDIT: to be fair, I did assume that people understood basic stuff about Medicaid: that it's mostly for children, elderly and disabled and that there are limited ways that an able bodied adult can even obtain Medicaid benefits. But one thing this thread has taught me is that plenty of my fellow students don't know **** about ****. Not you specifically, confetti. Just a generalization.

Haha, well, I do know that medicaid is I think 80-85% children/elderly/disabled anyway. It's like when people argue about water conservation, I get annoyed because it's mostly agriculture/business that comprise ~80-90% of water use (back in CA at least).

Stepping back, I think "Medicaid" becomes the pejorative word for anyone on any type of government assistance that "shouldn't be." Lots of people fall into this trap (SHC's post above), especially now you mentioned the concurrent TANF & Medicaid link. Working retail, I had distinct populations/groups come in. The two that stood out were a) SCHIP parents picking up antibiotics/tylenol drops for their kids and b) patients with the entitlement attitude I mentioned above.

Sure, they probably legally qualified and all that jazz...but it puts a bitter taste in your mouth that "my tax dollars are giving that piece of work all this?"

 

[rxlea]

Fine, even if they were knock offs, I know hair/nails cost more than $10 even at the cheap asian places. If you're having issues affording a $2 copay, who cares if a manicure makes you feel better...you need to get your priorities in order. It's really more the attitude of entitlement that I saw in my time in retail...."i deserve this...and i'm gonna throw my manners out the window cuz you have to SERVE me."

I've lived in some strange places (some ghetto, some not), it's funny because a lot of these recipients will take the handout with one hand then criticize the government not doing anything right. Sounds like what I'm doing now, so really this is just fighting fire with fire.


I fulfilled my "don't be a n00b" requirement by doing a google search and couldn't find the obscure TANF link that All4 pointed out



Difference is, I'm paying it back with interest, no such requirement exists for any other program. Student loans aren't student grants and aren't comparable to medicaid/TANF/etc... the former = an investment, the latter = a giveaway.

And I am being compassionate...I love my fellow countrymen/women and would rather see society progress by limiting our support for peoples' bad choices. The safety net should be drastically limited from its current scope and focus on the disabled/elderly/children because, well, we just can't afford it. While SHC's posts may be technically incorrect, I do see what she's hinting at when she says we should be handing out bags of rice, propane tanks, and tofu in lieu of any type of cash/cash-like benefit.

But anyway...it's called tough love, many of us subscribe to it and some form of SHC's ideas but like I mentioned before, you'll never know it interacting out there in the real world beyond SDN.

Nobody is saying that the people you describe don't exist (the one's who buy a 12 pack of beer over their own child's cough medicine, for example-- and that's a true story I saw with my own eyes). But, are they the MAJORITY of people on medicaid/medicare? No. And to make such generalizations about people isn't fair.

 

[owlegrad]

Okay, maybe not 100K, but I have seen them drive nice cars like BMW, Corvette, Lexus, Land Rover, etc. These people obviously shouldn't be on medicaid. If you are on medicaid you should be really poor and unable to afford a car. If you can afford to drive a BMW, you can afford to pay for private health insurance and not be on medicaid.


You haven't seen medicaid patients drive BMW pull up at the drive thru? Look next time!!!!

You do not think the government is giving too much? you don't think the system is too easily abused and that they should find a way to make it harder to abuse?

I have not seen this. But the obvious answer is that the person in the car is committing fraud. Perhaps they have an illegal/unreported income source?

But there are legitimate reasons for that scenario anyway. Perhaps the person in the BMW is a foster parent picking up meds for one of the children. Perhaps he owned the car before losing his job. Perhaps you are talking out of the wrong anatomical end, because this is just not that common. The overwhelming amount of medicaid patients I have interacted with were driving modest cars, in modest clothing, and just trying to get in and out of the pharmacy as fast as possible - the only negative generalization I will make is, as a group, they do tend to be difficult to deal with. Rude, inpatient, unreasonable, etc. I will take them over the "rich" any day though - at least the poor have a reason to be grumpy.

What kills me about people who think the system is so easy to abuse or that "these people" have it so good - try it for yourself. Go ahead and give it a try. Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[SHC1984]

HEY! It wasn't that obscure! I posted it a long time ago. It was perfectly clear to ME...clearly I am superior!

EDIT: to be fair, I did assume that people understood basic stuff about Medicaid: that it's mostly for children, elderly and disabled and that there are limited ways that an able bodied adult can even obtain Medicaid benefits. But one thing this thread has taught me is that plenty of my fellow students don't know **** about ****. Not you specifically, confetti. Just a generalization.

I always understood medicaid to be for poor people and medicare/social security to be for the older folks. I never have a problem with medicare and social security b/c I think if a person work their entire life and was paying taxes for their entire life they should get some sort of help from the government when they are older.

Okay, why does an elderly person need medicaid if they are qualified for medicare? Isn't medicare enough? I always figure older people are the richest b/c they have been working their entire lives and therefore have a lot of $$$ saved up.

Also like confettiflyer said, I was mixing medicaid with all the welfare programs out there. Is there such a program where the government actually give out CASH for the poor? Is it called welfare? Do the government ever give out money to people? If they do, that was what I was mixing medicaid with b/c I don't know what it is called. Government Welfare?

Lastly, like confettiflyer said, it is very frustrating to work and have people come up and get their prescriptions for FREE while driving BMWs, carrying Louis Vuitton bags, etc. I just want to know HOW they could have possibly afford that while not be able to afford a .50 cent copay? Also where the heck does all that money come from?

 

[confettiflyer]

Also where the heck does all that money come from?

China.

 

[owlegrad]

Nobody is saying that the people you describe don't exist (the one's who buy a 12 pack of beer over their own child's cough medicine, for example-- and that's a true story I saw with my own eyes). But, are they the MAJORITY of people on medicaid/medicare? No. And to make such generalizations about people isn't fair.

Now that is just heart breaking. It is staggering when you see something like that.

 

[owlegrad]

Also like confettiflyer said, I was mixing medicaid with all the welfare programs out there. Is there such a program where the government actually give out CASH for the poor? Is it called welfare? Do the government ever give out money to people? If they do, that was what I was mixing medicaid with b/c I don't know what it is called. Government Welfare?

The only program I know of that is anything like that is food stamps and WIC, neither of which is cash. Food Stamps used to be widely abused to buy non-food products, but now those benefits are put on a credit-card like "EBT Card". All major retailers accept them and the register system differentiates between eligible and ineligible products.

WIC is extremely close to a system you would approve of - it's like a check that the front EXPLECITLLY spells out what products they may receive, and they may only purchase the cheapest brand in most cases (almost always the store brand). Formula, milk, cereal, cheese, eggs, ect. are the common products. VERY strict guidelines about size, brand, packaging, etc.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Okay, why does an elderly person need medicaid if they are qualified for medicare? Isn't medicare enough? I always figure older people are the richest b/c they have been working their entire lives and therefore have a lot of $$$ saved up.

I am really frustrated with you because I know you are a smart girl, yet you persist in talking **** about things you clearly have no clue about. But I will answer this question briefly for you and if you want more information you will need to look it up yourself.

There are different types of Medicare (check Google) that pay for different types of things including hospitalization, medical supplies and equipment and prescription drugs. Not every elderly person has every type of Medicare. Some parts require premiums and are very similar to private insurance.

One thing Medicare does not pay for is long term nursing home care. Despite your belief that the elderly should be the richest because they have money saved, there are many, many indigent elderly people in this country. For a variety of reasons, many people are never able to get ahead and save up money and when they become old and unable to work they have no savings to support themselves. Medicaid DOES pay for long term nursing home care and that care is in fact the LARGEST expenditure in the Medicaid budget.

So that is why an elderly person would need Medicaid and Medicare. There are other reasons that someone might have both but I'm not going to get into them here. They are not interchangeable programs. Please educate yourself. You are going to be a health care professional and should have SOME idea about these programs.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

The only program I know of that is anything like that is food stamps and WIC, neither of which is cash. Food Stamps used to be widely abused to buy non-food products, but now those benefits are put on a credit-card like "EBT Card". All major retailers accept them and the register system differentiates between eligible and ineligible products.

WIC is extremely close to a system you would approve of - it's like a check that the front EXPLECITLLY spells out what products they may receive, and they may only purchase the cheapest brand in most cases (almost always the store brand). Formula, milk, cereal, cheese, eggs, ect. are the common products. VERY strict guidelines about size, brand, packaging, etc.

AFDC/TANF is what people traditionally considered "welfare checks." These programs, along with Social Security Disability, SSI, Unemployment and Social Security provide monthly "checks" or electronic transfers of funds that are intended to be a person's primary income or a supplement. No program hands out CASH but some do provide money that people can spend as they choose. That's how people generally pay rent, utilities, put gas in their cars, etc.

 

[SHC1984]

I am really frustrated with you because I know you are a smart girl, yet you persist in talking **** about things you clearly have no clue about. But I will answer this question briefly for you and if you want more information you will need to look it up yourself.

There are different types of Medicare (check Google) that pay for different types of things including hospitalization, medical supplies and equipment and prescription drugs. Not every elderly person has every type of Medicare. Some parts require premiums and are very similar to private insurance.

One thing Medicare does not pay for is long term nursing home care. Despite your belief that the elderly should be the richest because they have money saved, there are many, many indigent elderly people in this country. For a variety of reasons, many people are never able to get ahead and save up money and when they become old and unable to work they have no savings to support themselves. Medicaid DOES pay for long term nursing home care and that care is in fact the LARGEST expenditure in the Medicaid budget.

So that is why an elderly person would need Medicaid and Medicare. There are other reasons that someone might have both but I'm not going to get into them here. They are not interchangeable programs. Please educate yourself. You are going to be a health care professional and should have SOME idea about these programs.

I see. Yeah, now that you mentioned it I actually remember talking about medicaid in high school classes, but whenever we got on that topic the entire class at my school would be giving off the same attitude that medicaid people are lazy asses. The high school I went to was 90% very rich kids, so I didn't remember much about it since people were all kinda against it in my high school classes. I remember having the SAME debate as the one in this thread in my high school except only maybe 2-3 people were okay with medicaid while the other 25 people were not.

In pharmacy school we had a class that taught us about insurance, medicaid and medicare..but I was busy with Biochemistry, Immunology etc. that I barely studied for that class. I don't remember much from it..but I still got an A in there b/c I did study the night before for the exams! lol...

 

[Clavulanic]

I must say, this is the most disappointing thread I have seen in a long time. It shows that the caliber of student that is admitted to professional schools is much lower than I anticipated. There is a complete lack of truthfulness and on a scale from 1-10 the moral compass appears to be set to -5.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. What you are not entitled to is your own facts. You are free to debate the wisdom of our welfare system and the efficiency of societies delivery of services to those less fortunate than us. What you are not free to do is supply anecdotal evidence of "abuse" without any factual data to back it up.

To those libertarians among us (and I have very strong libertarian tendencies myself) you must also recognize that it is privilege to live here. By accident of birth you were born here and not in Somalia. So, in reaping the benefits of the society you have a responsibility to the society that allows you to prosper financially. President Kennedy was correct when he said:
J.F.K. Inaugural Address

To those in this thread that worship at the alter of "The Market", you display a stunning lack of history. People will lie, cheat or steal in order to make money, if they think they can get away with it.
Look at the Ford Pinto or Truman's investigation into war time corruption in military procurement. Read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle to understand what capitalism, unchecked by government regulation can get you. And yes, DARPA did invent the Internet. That's what government does best. Basic research that has no immediate marketable purpose. Then the market takes what the government invents or discovers and improves or markets it. The university research quoted is greatly funded by government grants.

There is one person I will call out by name and that is SHC1984. You my friend are a sorry excuse for a person. I really find it astonishing you can be so blind and ignorant of history. We have just escaped the 20th century where more human beings have been killed than at any other time, by a factor of 10. You are a Nazi. You don't even know it. What allowed the Nazis to kill 6 million Jews was their ability to dehumanize the Jews. They were vermin, they were a drag on German society, so they should be exterminated. It is sickening you hold these views. Your ignorance knows no bounds. I would suggest you watch a movie called Conspiracy. It takes place here:

If you don't want to rent it, you can watch it on Youtube:

Part one is here.


[YOUTUBE]ZFYyLUtIVX8[/YOUTUBE]

Thank you, about time someone said something... about everything...
Unfortunately this is how it is, I'm sure there are students like this in my class too. I know damn well there are students not intelligent or committed enough to be in a PharmD program at the least, but I digress...
No the systems not perfect, and it would be nearly impossible to make it perfect. Yes there is a lot of fraud and what have you going on, but it also legitimately helps people also. No I don't have the numbers of the frauds it helps and the legitimate people it helps.

There are a bunch of sociopaths in this thread. So terribly sad that some of you are actually going to be health care providers. You talk about entitlement? Go look at yourselves.

Sickening that you would rather let people die on the street than fork up some tax dollars (from which you benefit too!) to help them out.

A bunch of heartless scumbags.

I pity you.

I pity a foo. But no, really, some of these statements are so ridiculous that they could be trolls, but somehow I don't think they all are... sadly.

They maybe deserving, however that doesn't mean I should have to pay for them. If you want to that is fine, however I don't want to.

And you are pre-med if I remember correctly? So why do you want to be a physician again? Just for big bank? Well hasn't physician reimbursement been going down and down lately? Perhaps you should find a career that pays better AND lets you be immoral.
It's quite disturbing that some people have this thought. Do you disagree that these people that need legitimate medical care should get it?

 

[Jabberwocky12]

So guys!

I went on careerbuilder a little bit ago and there are like, NO JOBS available for pharmacist in my area.

I thought I was going to get a free job coming out of school?

WTF happened? Isn't there a shortage?

 

[Jabberwocky12]

Going with the above post, will this change if I go to a top 20 school rather than one of these diploma mills everyone keeps talking about? Can someone help me identify them so I know which ones to avoid?

 

[Jabberwocky12]

Or maybe I should go to medical school instead? Why are pharmacists doctors, anyway? We can't prescribe, we can't diagnose, and it's not like people take us seriously as a profession. All we do is count by 5's and then lick and stick. Occasionally we know where the toilet paper is, and call doctors for refills or bad handwriting.

 

[rxlea]

Going with the above post, will this change if I go to a top 20 school rather than one of these diploma mills everyone keeps talking about? Can someone help me identify them so I know which ones to avoid?

See "Official Diploma Mill List Thread"

 

[type b pharmD]

When you say people should be denied healthcare because of their inability to pay, you are basically saying, x or y person without income who is sick, should basically just be left to die, when part of everyone's collective contribution to society could be taxed some small % to save the life of your fellow human being. It's sad to think this way.

It doesnt get more complicated than that. It doesnt matter if they're disabled, cant work, can work and cant get a job, can't get a job that provides health coverage, etc. Not treating them, is basically saying "leave them to fend for themselves (ie, possibly die). Would you leave someone to die if you had the option not to by sacrificing a small portion of your "luxuries" or "comfort" in life? No, you wouldnt do it if it was on the street, but yet people clamor to be able to do that all the time and try to masquerade it as some type of ideology (free market health care basically). BAD FORM!!! We are supposed to be the caregivers and protectors of our society's health, and we can get paid a reasonable wage to do it, and provide care to everyone if the health care system is set up right.

 

[litetigre]

An able adult can still be qualified for food stamp, cash aid Medicaid if they are parents of kids under 18 or 21 depending on states. The more money you make the less benefits you receive. That's where incentive becomes disincentives. These are people who choose to stay on the system as long as they can.

 

[xiphoid2010]

An able adult can still be qualified for food stamp, cash aid Medicaid if they are parents of kids under 18 or 21 depending on states. The more money you make the less benefits you receive. That's where incentive becomes disincentives. These are people who choose to stay on the system as long as they can.

Correct. It's ironic that Chinese are more capitalist than we are. And they are lending us the money which we use to fund our welfare state.

How the mighty has fallen.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Oh good. More posters spouting sound bytes unencumbered by facts! That will help this debate tremendously.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Would you leave someone to die if you had the option not to by sacrificing a small portion of your "luxuries" or "comfort" in life? No, you wouldnt do it if it was on the street...

I'm pretty sure some people who've posted in this thread WOULD step over a sick and dying person in the street (especially if they were ugly, fat, old or mentally ******ed) on their way into Louis Vuitton. Why should what is happening to someone else be their problem? They've got shopping to do!

 

[xiphoid2010]

Oh good. More posters spouting sound bytes unencumbered by facts! That will help this debate tremendously.

Hence this is called a forum, for everyone to speak up.

There is no denying that without the chinese finance, the country will not be able to support the spending spending pattern, a big part of which is on healthcare and welfare.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Idealism and high morals are great, but before we comes to that, it has be sustainable and practical.

To be financially sustainable, the logic is simple -- the system should prioritize the healthcare for those those who are currently sustaining it (the working/paying). The next in priority will be those who will be paying for it (the young). Then those who are have contributed into it (the elderly), then lastly those who will never be able to contribute to it.

Cruel? Yes. But it's logical and efficient. Survival of the fittest also cruel, but is what drove evolution.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Medicare fraud is rampant. Everyone knows that. But it's also mostly perpetuated by PROVIDERS. There is an abundance of information about that available online. But Medicare and Medicaid are different, in a number of ways. For one, Medicare has universal enrollment of all individuals over a certain age. For another, Medicare is a federally administered program while Medicaid is partially federally funded but administered by the states. And so on.

So, posting an article about Medicare fraud gets us nowhere towards actually proving or disproving your claim that (in case you need reminding of what I'm trying to get at here):

Then I stand corrected. There's a lot of brash chest thumping going on in this thread and perhaps I got caught up in it without thinking my thoughts out sufficiently.

I will say this however. I've see some unbecoming stuff at my job with regards to people on welfare, and yes it only takes a few rotten apples to spoil the bunch. But NEVER have my own political beliefs come between me and the service I provide currently as a tech, and nor will it my next four years as an intern or thereafter as a Pharmacist. My personal beliefs do not infringe on the rights of others.

But outside of work, I'm a citizen with a genuine interest in how Government plays a role in my life. I don't like how this thread has made it seem almost taboo for us as healthcare providers to disagree with some of the services we provide, and also labeled us as uncaring, greedy sociopaths.

See y'all in other threads.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

There is no denying that without the chinese finance, the country will not be able to support the spending spending pattern, a big part of which is on healthcare and welfare.

Maybe. But there is nothing capitalist about the Chinese economy. There is not a lot about the Chinese economy or way of life that is worth emulating in the US (massive overcrowding, strict limits to personal freedom, environmental devastation, etc) and most Americans would not want to live there. There was a fantastic post on SDN about that very topic recently, but I can't remember what thread it was in or who the author was so I can't search for it.

The other thing that you are claiming that is incorrect is that the "welfare state" is bankrupting this country. That's also not true. Our budget may be unsustainable (even this is debatable) but it's not spending on food stamps and welfare and Medicaid that will bankrupt us. They are just easy targets but they make up a relatively small part of the federal budget compared to other line items.

 

[owlegrad]

AFDC/TANF is what people traditionally considered "welfare checks." These programs, along with Social Security Disability, SSI, Unemployment and Social Security provide monthly "checks" or electronic transfers of funds that are intended to be a person's primary income or a supplement. No program hands out CASH but some do provide money that people can spend as they choose. That's how people generally pay rent, utilities, put gas in their cars, etc.

I am not famialar with AFDC/TANF so I will look that up later.

I must have been tired last night not to think of this. I guess the talk so far has focused so much on healthcare that I wasn't thinking along these lines. My mom received SSI after my dad died, so I am somewhat familiar with that one. Thankfully we have never needed unemployment benefits, but of course I know about them.

Speaking of which, I do have a real problem with unemployment. Not that it exists (who knows, I may need it one day), but like everything some do take advantage of it. I used to do interviews at WinnDixie, and I can tell you there are people who do everything they can to stay on it as long as they can (which I don't think is that long to begin with?). Some people would say the craziest things during their interview (like they think it's ok to steal as long as the boss doesn't find out ) or they would just sit their with their arms crossed and just stare at me without even answering a question until I ended the interview and then as they leave ask me to sign a form saying they interviewed and are trying to find a job.

 

[rxlea]

Idealism and high morals are great, but before we comes to that, it has be sustainable and practical.

To be financially sustainable, the logic is simple -- the system should prioritize the healthcare for those those who are currently sustaining it (the working/paying). The next in priority will be those who will be paying for it (the young). Then those who are have contributed into it (the elderly), then lastly those who will never be able to contribute to it.

Cruel? Yes. But it's logical and efficient. Survival of the fittest also cruel, but is what drove evolution.

"We are borg."

There is a great Star Trek episode that addresses this very topic.

Star Trek is a great show- social commentary, controversy, testing your morals, etc...

Logic and compassion can actually go together, believe it or not. You could actually argue that compassion is logical but that is an entirely different debate...