Medicaid

[FarscapeGirl]

Also, SHC, I think you've outdone yourself in this thread. Are you really this sheltered? Are you pulling our leg? To sit and say that mentally ******ed people or whoever should just not live is absurd. You are making the most ridiculous assertions that I am starting to wonder if you are unwell.

I hope SHC exaggerates or is pulling our leg, but she's just so consistent.

I don't think it's wrong to not want to continue to live with severe brain damage (that's what living wills are for, by the way). But we shouldn't expect everyone to feel that way about themselves or their loved ones.

Oh, and those of you who think the Medicaid patients are wasting all our money, what about the patients that are on life-support and should have been let go a long time ago? I don't know what the answer to this is, but this might be a bigger problem than 'welfare queens' getting their cholesterol meds or their kids' antibiotics for free.

See this post by Dr. Grumpy: http://drgrumpyinthehouse.blogspot.com/2010/03/checkout-time.html

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[chubsley2000]

I value those three things in myself. In other people I just value intelligence and productivity. I do not see the point of a mentally ******ed person being around. I am not saying it is their fault that they are mentally ******ed, but I feel that they do not contribute to society in anyway, shape or form so why have them around? To triple the national debt?

Maybe they're alive because they were simply born and have a basic human right to live. It's unfortunate that they can't grow up to wait on you hand and foot, cooking your food or cleaning your hotel rooms once you're a well-to-do pharmacist with cash to blow

 

[SHC1984]

Have you every had close contact with a mentally handicapped person? .

No I haven't. I have only seen them on the streets at times, but never had any contact with anyone like that.

 

[SHC1984]

I hope SHC exaggerates or is pulling our leg, but she's just so consistent.

I do not lie on here or in real life. I have said the same stuff in real life and on this forum several times. Like I say...women's studies class do not like me too well...I don't fit in with religious people generally...oh well.

It's been a very fun discussion on here, but I have to call it a night now. I'll be back tommorrow. Good night.

 

[Liberty2010]

.... We can't help everyone, but there's still something wrong with a person working full-time and not making enough to live on. I don't care what it does to yours or anyone else's shares. I could make lots of money by stealing it from people, too, but that doesn't make it right.

Economic baby-talk. If someone's work isn't worth "x" amount of dollars, you really think the rest of use should "chip in" to make up for the difference? Hasn't this type of collectivism been tried before? Weren't the results disasterous?

Student loans are loans, but I don't think all of them do get paid back. What about all those people who get hundred of thousands of dollars to get degrees where they won't get jobs that pay any more than minimum wage?

That's the risk the lender assumes, and this is certainly factored into the loan's interest rate. No such thing as a free lunch.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

Economic baby-talk. If someone's work isn't worth "x" amount of dollars, you really think the rest of use should "chip in" to make up for the difference? Hasn't this type of collectivism been tried before? Weren't the results disasterous?

So you think what CEOs do is worth the millions of dollars they get? The ones that run their company into the ground and end up with golden parachutes? We should be chipping in for that? I don't think so.

I don't have an answer to our economic issues, but I still think it's not right for someone to work full time and not get paid a living wage. Or have health care.

You're implying I'm talking about USSR. I'm not. They had a few rich jerks living off the rest of the people. That's not good for anyone, except for the rich jerks.

Today, most European countries have a system set up where people make at least enough to live and have health care. Sure, they have problems; no country is perfect.

Personally, I'd love to live in a country where I can leave my job and not worry about losing my health insurance. I'd also love not to bill 18 zillion different insurance plans every day and have everyone ask me how much their med will cost like I have all those plans memorized. But that's just me.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

I posted this over a year ago (surprisingly, in response to one of SHC's posts!), but here I go again (edited to match the content of this thread):

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on StudentDoctor.net about how taxes are evil and everyone on medicaid is a fraud because the government can't do anything right.

Here is the libertarian/objectivist response I woke up to an alarm clock powered by a monopoly, I have no choice in provider, because electricity is "too precious" for the free market.

I use well water for my shower or would be willing to pay a private company, but they were beaten out by a heavily subsidized municipality.

I put on TV and watch a privately owned television channel, my choices are limited as the FCC limits freedom of expression, I use AccuWeather to check the weather.

I eat my breakfast, knowing that a brand acting in its rational self-interest is likely to be fine and that the USDA doesn't adequately inspect anything and take my pills knowing that the FDA is almost useless in certifying them as safe.

I look at my watch, the time system we use was devised by private corporations, the rail roads. I go get into my car, which was made safer by the fact that in private markets there is an incentive to innovate. I drive onto a potholed road, knowing that if this was a privately owned toll road it would be in better shape. I buy gasoline knowing that companies like to protect their reputation and provide quality fuel. I pay using worthless fiat currency.

I use UPS or Fedex for my mail as it is fast and reliable and send my kids to prep school, knowing that they will better educated there than in our failing public schools.

I walk into work, I'm not maimed or killed due to the threat of lawsuits and lost productivity driving up costs, my company decides it's cheaper to be safe. I drive on the pot holed roads again, back to my home. It hasn't burnt down because I paid to build it right the first time and which hasn't been plundered because I believe in the second amendment.

I use the internet, which DARPA had a small role in creating, but was largely created by individuals in universities and content providers, to post on how useless government is.

 

[Dr Wario]

Here is the libertarian/objectivist response I woke up to an alarm clock powered by a monopoly, I have no choice in provider, because electricity is "too precious" for the free market.

I use well water for my shower or would be willing to pay a private company, but they were beaten out by a heavily subsidized municipality.

I put on TV and watch a privately owned television channel, my choices are limited as the FCC limits freedom of expression, I use AccuWeather to check the weather.

I eat my breakfast, knowing that a brand acting in its rational self-interest is likely to be fine and that the USDA doesn't adequately inspect anything and take my pills knowing that the FDA is almost useless in certifying them as safe.

I look at my watch, the time system we use was devised by private corporations, the rail roads. I go get into my car, which was made safer by the fact that in private markets there is an incentive to innovate. I drive onto a potholed road, knowing that if this was a privately owned toll road it would be in better shape. I buy gasoline knowing that companies like to protect their reputation and provide quality fuel. I pay using worthless fiat currency.

I use UPS or Fedex for my mail as it is fast and reliable and send my kids to prep school, knowing that they will better educated there than in our failing public schools.

I walk into work, I'm not maimed or killed due to the threat of lawsuits and lost productivity driving up costs, my company decides it's cheaper to be safe. I drive on the pot holed roads again, back to my home. It hasn't burnt down because I paid to build it right the first time and which hasn't been plundered because I believe in the second amendment.

I use the internet, which DARPA had a small role in creating, but was largely created by individuals in universities and content providers, to post on how useless government is.

Digging this.

 

[spacecowgirl]

So we move people up to "better" jobs, who's going to be the janitors? Who's left to do the jobs no one wants? If people got paid living wages for working full time, we wouldn't have this problem. But that would eat into corporations' profits. Guess we can't have that.

I was going to say the same thing. Not everyone can (financially or intellectually) "better" themselves. Should they? Someone has to flip your burger, clean your hotel room (or hospital room), cook your nursing home food, ring up your groceries, etc. People who don't have the ability to work a "higher" level job should make a living wage.

Single payer healthcare. That's my answer. How much money would we save without having to pay all of the people needed to support billing and reimbursement? How many people work in the insurance industry? What is the overhead of administering a health plan? Why is healthcare so expensive? Coders, billing, compliance, formulary development - all of that is $$$. I worked for a very small non-profit health plan that employed enough people to fill an 11-story building.


I'd rather my tax dollars go towards healthcare than war. Which costs a heck of a lot more than what we spend on healthcare.

 

[rxlea]

The underlying problems here are that the left and right will never agree and humans are inherently greedy/selfish..

 

[pharm B]

There were some real gems in this thread. I've gutted a deer before, but it didn't make me as sick to my stomach as some of the things posted.

The deer was tasty by the way.

 

[R2pharmD2]

There were some real gems in this thread. I've gutted a deer before, but it didn't make me as sick to my stomach as some of the things posted.

The deer was tasty by the way.

Yeah, I think this thread has dropped my opinion of humanity a few points...

And deer steak = delicious

 

[WVUPharm2007]

You people are all sorts of ****ing stupid.

First, to even tackle this issue, you have to understand the complex issue of poverty. Which is something you probably weren't exposed to in the suburbs, nor something you probably care to know anything about. And trying to understand about the plights of others is just too much effort. Which I understand. Caring about other people is soooo 20th century.

Let's just talk in terms your pea-sized brains can comprehend.

What makes you people REALLY ****ing stupid is that medicaid/medicare is a major contributor to the financial coffers of our collective profession. Each time this hypothetical welfare queen that drives a hypothetical Escalade (in real life, those are called drug dealers' girlfriends/wives...if you think regular ass poor people can afford an Escalade, you are a ****ing idiot.) comes in for a bazillion dollars of meds...guess whose salary is affected by said prescriptions and work that requires the presence of a registered pharmacist. Yes, you. And you. And you over there.

So, yes, let's just end medicaid. I'm sure we'll be able to replace that lost market share via a more laissez-faire healthcare system. Everyone knows that poor people can afford healthcare. I'm sure the invisible hand of the market with extend to them a teaspoon of cough medicine.

You people have to be the stupidest bunch of capitalists I've ever seen in my life. And oblivious to the ills of others. Lacking empathy used to be grounds to be called a sociopath. Now its something that some people admire. We are all sorts of ****ed up here in the US of A.

Oh well...

 

[R2pharmD2]

Truth.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

SHC - does the government REALLY take 40% of your paycheck to give to other people? Do you believe that you receive NOTHING in exchange for the taxes that you pay?

****...they only take like 23% from me. I must be special...

 

[Rockinacoustic]

You people are all sorts of ****ing stupid.

First, to even tackle this issue, you have to understand the complex issue of poverty. Which is something you probably weren't exposed to in the suburbs, nor something you probably care to know anything about. And trying to understand about the plights of others is just too much effort. Which I understand. Caring about other people is soooo 20th century.

Let's just talk in terms your pea-sized brains can comprehend.

What makes you people REALLY ****ing stupid is that medicaid/medicare is a major contributor to the financial coffers of our collective profession. Each time this hypothetical welfare queen that drives a hypothetical Escalade (in real life, those are called drug dealers' girlfriends/wives...if you think regular ass poor people can afford an Escalade, you are a ****ing idiot.) comes in for a bazillion dollars of meds...guess whose salary is affected by said prescriptions and work that requires the presence of a registered pharmacist. Yes, you. And you. And you over there.

So, yes, let's just end medicaid. I'm sure we'll be able to replace that lost market share via a more laissez-faire healthcare system. Everyone knows that poor people can afford healthcare. I'm sure the invisible hand of the market with extend to them a teaspoon of cough medicine.

You people have to be the stupidest bunch of capitalists I've ever seen in my life. And oblivious to the ills of others. Lacking empathy used to be grounds to be called a sociopath. Now its something that some people admire. We are all sorts of ****ed up here in the US of A.

Oh well...

You're right, I can't relate to that lifestyle. But unfortunately there are far too many people who abuse the system as opposed to those who actually need the coverage. The golden days of charging poorly managed government run programs to America's credit card are over.

 

[Dr Wario]

Guess this is why many forums have rules against threads on politics, it is hard to have a simple discussion without it degrading into childish insults.

I guess I thought pharmacists would be better than this.

 

[pharm B]

Guess this is why many forums have rules against threads on politics, it is hard to have a simple discussion without it degrading into childish insults.

I guess I thought pharmacists would be better than this.

Better than what, exactly? A heated discussion isn't a bad discussion.

The initial post wasn't an invitation to a civil discussion, it was a hate post. I honestly thought the thread would die with no responses to such a dumb first entry.

Instead, some strong opinions came out and the thread took a turn in another direction. But then, most conversations in real life don't stay focused on a single topic for too long.

I'd say this was a train wreck, but it's a train wreck we all contributed to. No one was told to hush.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

Better than what, exactly? A heated discussion isn't a bad discussion.

The initial post wasn't an invitation to a civil discussion, it was a hate post. I honestly thought the thread would die with no responses to such a dumb first entry.

Instead, some strong opinions came out and the thread took a turn in another direction. But then, most conversations in real life don't stay focused on a single topic for too long.

I'd say this was a train wreck, but it's a train wreck we all contributed to. No one was told to hush.

Maybe afterwards we can talk about abortion and which religion is best.

 

[rxlea]

I really hope you guys get some sensitivity training at some point during your careers/schooling. I hope I am never, ever your patient.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

I really hope you guys get some sensitivity training at some point during your careers/schooling. I hope I am never, ever your patient.

So what ideals would you like your pharmacist to have? So far there has been everything from END MEDICAID to EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE IT to FIX IT AND THEN LET SOME PEOPLE HAVE IT. What would you prefer your pharmacist to believe?

 

[Jabberwocky12]

I would have them practice by the following quote from the founder of the institution I work for:

"The best interest of the patient is the only interest to be considered." - william mayo

And if I believed in God, I would thank him for making my health care providers give a damn about their patients more than their precious 23% of tax dollars.

Glad to hear it. For many people it's very hard to follow that money isn't the most important thing in the world when everything they know is governed by it.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

You're right, I can't relate to that lifestyle. But unfortunately there are far too many people who abuse the system as opposed to those who actually need the coverage. The golden days of charging poorly managed government run programs to America's credit card are over.

Do you really think the MAJORITY of Medicaid recipients abuse the system or shouldn't be on Medicaid? Would it surprise you to know that the majority of Medicaid expenditures are for the care of the elderly and the disabled?

 

[Liberty2010]

So you think what CEOs do is worth the millions of dollars they get? The ones that run their company into the ground and end up with golden parachutes? We should be chipping in for that? I don't think so.

I don't have an answer to our economic issues, but I still think it's not right for someone to work full time and not get paid a living wage. Or have health care.

You're implying I'm talking about USSR. I'm not. They had a few rich jerks living off the rest of the people. That's not good for anyone, except for the rich jerks.

Today, most European countries have a system set up where people make at least enough to live and have health care. Sure, they have problems; no country is perfect.

Personally, I'd love to live in a country where I can leave my job and not worry about losing my health insurance. I'd also love not to bill 18 zillion different insurance plans every day and have everyone ask me how much their med will cost like I have all those plans memorized. But that's just me.

I wrote out a big response to this... and my internet cut off while I was submitting.... Sign from God that this discusssion has out-lived it's usefullness?

 

[Liberty2010]

I really hope you guys get some sensitivity training at some point during your careers/schooling. I hope I am never, ever your patient.

You know... there seems to be a perception amongst some of you that those of us who are generally against government ran health care are somehow callous and uncaring. I don't know how you get from "I don't think the government can run this sucessfully" to " I hate people." Please stop making this association, it doesn't apply to all of us.

 

[rxlea]

You know... there seems to be a perception amongst some of you that those of us who are generally against government ran health care are somehow callous and uncaring. I don't know how you get from "I don't think the government can run this sucessfully" to " I hate people." Please stop making this association, it doesn't apply to all of us.

Looks like you're making the assumption here... and no, it doesn't apply to everyone. I am commenting in response to the callous and uncaring posts made.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

You're right, I can't relate to that lifestyle. But unfortunately there are far too many people who abuse the system as opposed to those who actually need the coverage. The golden days of charging poorly managed government run programs to America's credit card are over.

So you are now claiming that more people abuse the system than legitimately need it?

Well...you're wrong.

 

[favoredchild]

Also, SHC, I think you've outdone yourself in this thread. Are you really this sheltered? Are you pulling our leg? To sit and say that mentally ******ed people or whoever should just not live is absurd. You are making the most ridiculous assertions that I am starting to wonder if you are unwell.

Well said.

 

[pharmschooler]

Have you every had close contact with a mentally handicapped person? It can be quite the amazing experience. The way they look at the world; their naivety can be quite refreshing. My band director in high school had a son who had Down's syndrome. I had the opportunity to spend time with him, and he was a really cool guy. He had many great qualities independent of his intelligence level...friendliness, love of life...mad skillz driving a golf cart.

My point is, you are taking people and turning them into statistics. Everyone is different...that is what makes life interesting. I don't think it's right to judge a person because they are in the category of being mentally handicapped. This is coming from a person who has a sister-in-law who is borderline mentally handicapped and two brother-in-laws with learning disabilities.

I really think you just need to think about that for awhile and relate it to yourself too. You say that you would rather be dead if you weren't productive, but if you were truly in that situation...would you really want to die?

Also, please don't put money above people. Money may make the world go round, but people are what makes life worth living. Remember, that we Americans enjoy one of the highest standards of living on the planet. If you own just one car, that makes you richer than 96% of the world. Sure, your paycheck might be a little smaller, but you still have a roof over your head, means of transportation, food on the table, money in the bank, health insurance, the internet, a cell phone, video games, television, air conditioning, a 40 hour workweek, domestic security....

I know I digressed, and sure "maybe I'm super-religious (although the term religious is a pretty vague term....)", but I'd much rather live in a world where basic human rights are an assumption vs. a place where it's every man and his/her genome to him/herself.

Well said! I agree with everything here. There's nothing in this that I see as super religious; I'm not religious and I think you're 100% right.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Here is the libertarian/objectivist response I woke up to an alarm clock powered by a monopoly, I have no choice in provider, because electricity is "too precious" for the free market.

I use well water for my shower or would be willing to pay a private company, but they were beaten out by a heavily subsidized municipality.

I put on TV and watch a privately owned television channel, my choices are limited as the FCC limits freedom of expression, I use AccuWeather to check the weather.

I eat my breakfast, knowing that a brand acting in its rational self-interest is likely to be fine and that the USDA doesn't adequately inspect anything and take my pills knowing that the FDA is almost useless in certifying them as safe.

I look at my watch, the time system we use was devised by private corporations, the rail roads. I go get into my car, which was made safer by the fact that in private markets there is an incentive to innovate. I drive onto a potholed road, knowing that if this was a privately owned toll road it would be in better shape. I buy gasoline knowing that companies like to protect their reputation and provide quality fuel. I pay using worthless fiat currency.

I use UPS or Fedex for my mail as it is fast and reliable and send my kids to prep school, knowing that they will better educated there than in our failing public schools.

I walk into work, I'm not maimed or killed due to the threat of lawsuits and lost productivity driving up costs, my company decides it's cheaper to be safe. I drive on the pot holed roads again, back to my home. It hasn't burnt down because I paid to build it right the first time and which hasn't been plundered because I believe in the second amendment.

I use the internet, which DARPA had a small role in creating, but was largely created by individuals in universities and content providers, to post on how useless government is.

Yeah...but it's really all bull****.

Without the privilege of growing up in a society, none of that happens. Really, everything that happens is the result of countless hours of prior human achievement. The society that spawned you is just as responsible for your achievements as you are.

"Objectivism" amuses me.

It is this idiotic and infantile school of thought created by this stupid ass woman who created a life philosophy revolving around narcissism because she couldn't come to terms with the fact that she was a mentally defective sociopath.

Conveniently for the forces of stupidity, the world powers got into this sphere of influence battle thinly veiled as a"capitalism vs communism" pissing match...really it was a rational, mixed economy vs a crazy, irrational economy-as-a-religion...bother of which just wanted to have more control over the world...but that doesn't matter...what does is if you fast forward 50 years, we still haven't pulled ourselves away from this type of thinking that the Cold War started. People are still stupid enough to think that a singular economic ideology is the answer to everything, both practically and philosophically. And we've become so ******ed-polarized that people are actually going around reading Ayn Rand. As recently as like 10 years ago, everyone made fun of the stupid wench because it was *inconceivable* that anybody was insane enough to take her ramblings and poorly written short stories about architects up against the big, bad evil strawman-government seriously. Yet here we are...a country of ****ing idiots.

****, I don't even remember the last time I heard someone that isn't me say "mixed economy." Where the hell are the rational people at? They still exist?

 

[FutureCTDoc]

The underlying problems here are that the left and right will never agree and humans are inherently greedy/selfish..

We are greedy and selfish, however that's a good thing. Consider many of the technologies we have, they were made by "selfish" people out to make money. "Greedy" corporations and individuals work together in their own rational self-interest that's how our economy functions. When you go to any business are the people there providing services out of the good of their own hearts? No, they do it for money. Pharmaceuticals make these great advances motivated by profit, if there were none, no innovation would occur.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

So you are now claiming that more people abuse the system than legitimately need it?

Well...you're wrong.

Agree. The myth of the "Welfare Queen" has been pretty much disproven. Over and over.

And WTF are these people talking about when they say the poor have it better than us? That welfare benefits make up a "deluxe package?" If people are stupid enough to believe that, then maybe they should just GO on welfare. Enjoy your $100 to $200 a month in Food Stamps, because that's the average amount received by beneficiaries. You'll eat GREAT on that. Enjoy having to decide between wiping your ass and brushing your teeth because all of those NONfood groceries are expensive and not covered by any government assistance program. Enjoy waiting in line all day at the public health clinic and then getting a pap smear from a pimple faced medical student who couldn't find the cervix if it glowed in the dark. Enjoy heading to the community ministry multiple times a month to hit up the food pantry or to apply for LIHEAP or other utility assistance program so you don't get your power cut off. Enjoy living in public housing, where you can get your exercise dodging bullets and chasing bugs and rats out our your third floor walk up apartment. If you are lucky enough to be able to live in private or Section 8 housing, enjoy coming home to new locks on the door and your **** set out by the curb b/c you paid your rent a bit late or maybe the landlord is just tired of you and your kids and wants to rent the apartment to his brother's wife's uncle's cousin.

Yes, the life of the poor is LUSH. Where do I sign up?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

We are greedy and selfish, however that's a good thing. Consider many of the technologies we have, they were made by "selfish" people out to make money. "Greedy" corporations and individuals work together in their own rational self-interest that's how our economy functions. When you go to any business are the people there providing services out of the good of their own hearts? No, they do it for money. Pharmaceuticals make these great advances motivated by profit, if there were none, no innovation would occur.

Tell that to the Amish.

....

You are what you are conditioned to be.

Unfortunately, America conditions narcissists.

 

[rph3664]

Amish people have been arrested in my area for puppy mills, meth manufacture, and child molestation. They aren't as different from us as you might think.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Amish people have been arrested in my area for puppy mills, meth manufacture, and child molestation. They aren't as different from us as you might think.

People are people and there will always be unscrupulous elements in any society. WVU's point was that innovation DOES often exist absent a profit motive and the Amish are one example. It is fair to say that the Amish (in general) are less motivated by the accumulation of wealth than other segments of our society. Of course there are outliers. Your exception does not disprove WVU's point, at all. And although I can see where you were going with puppy mills and making meth (because those things are about $$$), I'm not sure how child molestation is relevant to the economics of the Amish community.

And while I'm on the subject of innovation and profit, I think it's fair to say that some of the most stunning advances in medicine have been made, not for profit, but for the good of humanity. I can think of quite a few examples.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Tell that to the Amish.

....

You are what you are conditioned to be.

Unfortunately, America conditions narcissists.

2 points.

1. I hardly consider the Amish to be great innovators.

2. This kind of thing only works in a community where you help each other out without needing immediate payment, just the understanding that if you ever need help then the others will do the same for you.

 

[R2pharmD2]

2 points.

1. I hardly consider the Amish to be great innovators.

2. This kind of thing only works in a community where you help each other out without needing immediate payment, just the understanding that if you ever need help then the others will do the same for you.

The point wasn't that the Amish are great innovators. The original comment was that greed and profit are the sole reason we have innovation, and this example refutes that. Greed and profit certainly do lead to innovation, but they are by no means the only source. The old saying "necessity is the mother of invention" comes to mind. People will always seek better solutions for our problems, and money isn't always the motivating factor.

Edit: Your signature is awesome!

 

[FarscapeGirl]

I eat my breakfast, knowing that a brand acting in its rational self-interest is likely to be fine and that the USDA doesn't adequately inspect anything and take my pills knowing that the FDA is almost useless in certifying them as safe.

I buy gasoline knowing that companies like to protect their reputation and provide quality fuel.

Wait, you are in healthcare and think that the FDA is almost useless in certifying medications as safe?? Pick up a book and read about the history of medicine! Medicines used to be adulterated with all sorts of junk (kind of like a lot of illegal drugs today). Pick up a newspaper and find out about all the awful things in herbal medicines that have hurt people because the FDA doesn't have the authority to regulate them until they're deemed to be unsafe. Examples: Hyland's teething tablets and Zicam 'homeopathic' cold nasal swabs with so much zinc that people lost their sense of smell. I won't even get into the amount of drugs the FDA has pulled off the market to protect people from risks greater than the benefits of the drug.

The USDA has seemed to be doing a pretty decent job to me tracing food recalls after food-borne illnesses, and their inspections help prevent a lot. Granted, they don't do nearly enough inspections, but that's because they aren't given a lot of money because of people like you.

And gasoline companies like to protect their reputation?? That whole oil spill in the gulf a few months ago was because the gas company didn't follow the right regulations, because money now is more important than a potential risk to your reputation later. More inspections and a greater amount of fines from the government for not doing things correctly likely would have prevented it.

I could go on (wells suck and are very expensive to drill, not guaranteed, and it's not very much fun when they run out of water), but I think you get my point.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

So you are now claiming that more people abuse the system than legitimately need it?

Well...you're wrong.

How come none of us pharmacy students and former pharmacy students complain about people getting student loans and abusing the system by taking that money and using it to buy expensive toys, designer clothes, and trips to Hawaii?

Granted, we'll most likely pay it back, but we're getting the loan at a reduced fixed rate (and sometimes free grants) for the express purposes of funding our education. And by taking that loan money, there's less for those that truly need it (like students supporting families, for instance).

Note: Playing devil's advocate here... I by no means think that being on student loans means you should only buy the absolute necessities... but it's something to think about if you complain that Medicaid recipients are gaming the system and taking advantage of it.

 

[meister]

Economic baby-talk. If someone's work isn't worth "x" amount of dollars, you really think the rest of use should "chip in" to make up for the difference? Hasn't this type of collectivism been tried before? Weren't the results disasterous?

The only "baby-talk" is yours. If you think there is some objective arbiter of worth that assigns everyone a salary based on their usefulness you are an idiot. If you don't think that, your post doesn't make any sense. In either case, you're very wrong and short-sighted. Hope this helps!

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Wait, you are in healthcare and think that the FDA is almost useless in certifying medications as safe?? Pick up a book and read about the history of medicine! Medicines used to be adulterated with all sorts of junk (kind of like a lot of illegal drugs today). Pick up a newspaper and find out about all the awful things in herbal medicines that have hurt people because the FDA doesn't have the authority to regulate them until they're deemed to be unsafe. Examples: Hyland's teething tablets and Zicam 'homeopathic' cold nasal swabs with so much zinc that people lost their sense of smell. I won't even get into the amount of drugs the FDA has pulled off the market to protect people from risks greater than the benefits of the drug.

The USDA has seemed to be doing a pretty decent job to me tracing food recalls after food-borne illnesses, and their inspections help prevent a lot. Granted, they don't do nearly enough inspections, but that's because they aren't given a lot of money because of people like you.

And gasoline companies like to protect their reputation?? That whole oil spill in the gulf a few months ago was because the gas company didn't follow the right regulations, because money now is more important than a potential risk to your reputation later. More inspections and a greater amount of fines from the government for not doing things correctly likely would have prevented it.

I could go on (wells suck and are very expensive to drill, not guaranteed, and it's not very much fun when they run out of water), but I think you get my point.

Lots of drugs with issues have been approved by the FDA COX2 inhibitors come to mind. It does a really bad job of taking care of drug safety.

The USDAs inspections are a joke, that's why you routinely hear of E. Coli, Salmonella et al. outbreaks. This would be easy to take care of if everyone just used radiation to eradicate the pathogens prior to sending the food out.

The gulf spill was so horrendous because simpler and safer near shore drilling is verboten. Instead technically difficult and more risky offshore drilling has become the norm thanks to Uncle Sam. Also nuclear power hasn't happened on a wide scale due to the difficulty in getting plant licensure.

 

[owlegrad]

Lots of drugs with issues have been approved by the FDA COX2 inhibitors come to mind. It does a really bad job of taking care of drug safety.

Do you think we would be better off without the FDA? The FDA does a great job - that's why unsafe products are pulled off the shelf. COX2 inhibitors are a perfect example of how the FDA works. Could they be better? Sure, everything on earth could be better.

The USDAs inspections are a joke, that's why you routinely hear of E. Coli, Salmonella et al. outbreaks. This would be easy to take care of if everyone just used radiation to eradicate the pathogens prior to sending the food out.

Again, would we be better off without the USDA? No.

The gulf spill was so horrendous because simpler and safer near shore drilling is verboten. Instead technically difficult and more risky offshore drilling has become the norm thanks to Uncle Sam. Also nuclear power hasn't happened on a wide scale due to the difficulty in getting plant licensure.

You are not very consistent. The problem with the FDA and USDA is they are too lax and not effective, but the problem with increasing nuclear power is that it's too hard to get a license? Do you think it should be easier to get a license a nuclear power plant?

 

[SHC1984]

I really hope you guys get some sensitivity training at some point during your careers/schooling. I hope I am never, ever your patient.

Are you implying that just because a person is religious, loves medicaid and love ******ed people etc. that alone will make them the best pharmacist?

What makes the best pharmacist? An intelligent person that rarely if ever make any mistakes on the job. That person is the best and that person is the person I want as a pharmacist. I could careless what they believe in, how they feel about medicaid or whether they believe in rights for the ******ed folks. As long as the pharmacist is intelligent and doesn't ever make any work related mistakes, then by definition that is a good pharmacist!

It doesn't matter how caring and loving you are...if you are dumb as a brick and make 100000000000 mistakes everyday...then that would be the pharmacist that I would want to avoid. Your believes have nothing to do with how good or bad of a pharmacist you are...it pretty much depends mainly on your error rate/intelligence.

 

[Liberty2010]

The only "baby-talk" is yours. If you think there is some objective arbiter of worth that assigns everyone a salary based on their usefulness you are an idiot. If you don't think that, your post doesn't make any sense. In either case, you're very wrong and short-sighted. Hope this helps!

The post I was replying to seemed to imply that people who didn't make enough money to reach some arbitrary stardard of living ("x" dollars) should have their income supplemented by gov money. Any yes, by using the word "worth" I'm implying some relationship between their value to their employer and their income. I wouldn't say someone's income is always a direct and accurate assessment of their value to the company, but you have got to admit there is a relationship there.

 

[ucrx]

Yeah...I am techincially not converted yet...have you read the book Skinny Bitch? I am going to follow that book when I finish school and have more time to cook and monitor my diet. I am going to go all organic and no more animal products. If you read that book you would want to do the same.

I read it. I felt like I was reading propaganda the whole time. I still love my steak.

 

[confettiflyer]

I really hope you guys get some sensitivity training at some point during your careers/schooling. I hope I am never, ever your patient.

The funny thing is...bet you most of the people posting these "insensitive remarks" are probably the people you would least expect when interacting on a regular basis.

The internet/SDN lets everyone air out their true feelings and say things they wouldn't say out of politeness. Bet you SHC is gracious/polite to Medicaid customers in the retail setting. Disdain is pretty easy to hide when your paycheck depends on it.

In fact I commend her on her candidness, bet you there are a lot of people out there that think like her (but even trying to measure the sentiment will fail, I'm sure people don't want to admit those beliefs even in an anonymous poll).

 

[SHC1984]

The funny thing is...bet you most of the people posting these "insensitive remarks" are probably the people you would least expect when interacting on a regular basis.

The internet/SDN lets everyone air out their true feelings and say things they wouldn't say out of politeness. Bet you SHC is gracious/polite to Medicaid customers in the retail setting. Disdain is pretty easy to hide when your paycheck depends on it.

In fact I commend her on her candidness, bet you there are a lot of people out there that think like her (but even trying to measure the sentiment will fail, I'm sure people don't want to admit those beliefs even in an anonymous poll).

I usually don't talk at all when I am at work. So I guess that is keeping the down low...even if someone tries to talk to me...I give one word answers and that would be it. LOL...

Now that you mentioned it one time in undergrad we had a discussion on doing research and testing out new drugs and stuff. A guy in my class, he was most likely the smartest guy in the class and was fairly attractive too. He raised his hands and said to the professor,"we should just test these new drugs on the mentally ******ed people. That way the results would be more accurate than testing on mice." I swear those were his exact words!!! And he is one of the smartest guys in our class and I think he is cool.

I really do not understand why anyone would want to live or think there is a point to life if they are just sitting at home like a vegetable everyday. I don't think I am being mean...I just have a very productive way of thinking.

 

[SHC1984]

I read it. I felt like I was reading propaganda the whole time. I still love my steak.

You don't believe that book is accurate or truthful? I mean I will do whatever it takes to stay skinny forever and I prefer to be healthy too. I don't want to eat like a slop...so I always try to find ways to improve in that area.

 

[confettiflyer]

We can't help everyone, but there's still something wrong with a person working full-time and not making enough to live on.

Well the solution to that is market correction. Too many janitors? People will leave the profession, supply will drop, wages will rise for everyone else. No way I'd want goverment messing with wages/supply/etc... Imagine if government mandated our salaries as pharmacists (at a higher than "normal" level). Great for us, not so great for our employers, who then have to make cuts in other areas. Too much meddling, I don't like it.

I don't care what it does to yours or anyone else's shares.

So when you dutifully sock money away in your 401k, you want all those companies to be irresponsible with your money? If I wanted to support social causes, I'd rather donate money vs be deceived by some company pretending to make money but in fact is trying to save the world.

But what's the difference between helping someone who's working for a non-living wage or even unemployed for more than five years and helping someone who's disabled? Where do you draw the line? What if that person has mental disabilities? In fact, with your logic, why do we support people dying of cancer? It's not like they're going to improve, and any money we spend on them isn't worth it.

End of life care in the US is out of control, but I do acknowledge the values of this country dictates that we *should* spend money on terminal cancer patients, even if the evidence shows a few months improvement.

I do personally think that we're better off spending the money on vaccinating kids or other basic/easy things, but again, stepping back, government should reflect the values of the people it represents. So, in my world of single payer "confettiflyer as dictator" government, I would have to cut off the treatments you're talking about and channel it to other areas.

Student loans are loans, but I don't think all of them do get paid back.

Then that's a grant, not a loan. But I think I know what you're talking about (loan forgiveness?) Government subsidizing non-profits by getting high debt professionals into their generally lower paying positions....not anything I like, but I think it's better than government just running its own stuff. I would greatly benefit from the program, but still makes you go "hmmmm"

What about all those people who get hundred of thousands of dollars to get degrees where they won't get jobs that pay any more than minimum wage?

That's called stupidity, or lack of foresight. Like that idiot who got like $200k in debt to get a photography degree. I'd like to bring back debtors prisons for just that one person.

 

[confettiflyer]

I usually don't talk at all when I am at work. So I guess that is keeping the down low...even if someone tries to talk to me...I give one word answers and that would be it. LOL...

Now that you mentioned it one time in undergrad we had a discussion on doing research and testing out new drugs and stuff. A guy in my class, he was most likely the smartest guy in the class and was fairly attractive too. He raised his hands and said to the professor,"we should just test these new drugs on the mentally ******ed people. That way the results would be more accurate than testing on mice." I swear those were his exact words!!! And he is one of the smartest guys in our class and I think he is cool.

I really do not understand why anyone would want to live or think there is a point to life if they are just sitting at home like a vegetable everyday. I don't think I am being mean...I just have a very productive way of thinking.

Okay that guy was just dumb...being smart includes having a social filter. Kanye West is a good musician, but he's a ******* with no filter.

And did you watch my video on page 2? Please please please watch it for me.