US DO vs Caribbean MD

[Angus Avagadro]

Would you all say though in the long run Carribbean MD is better than DO? esp if one can make it through school to match day?

If you can be a rock star in the Caribbean, you can be a rock star at a DO school. Many more doors would be open to you as a rock star DO. The only small problem is , are you a rock star?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Isoval]

Would you all say though in the long run Carribbean MD is better than DO? esp if one can make it through school to match day?

in no world is that even remotely true.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Would you all say though in the long run Carribbean MD is better than DO? esp if one can make it through school to match day?

You are still making the assumption that an MD has more doors open to them in the medical world as opposed to a DO. This is only partly true... What we are saying is that a US medical education is better than an international medical education when it comes to practicing in the US, despite the initials at the end of your name.

 

[Goro]

NO, If you can make it to match day in the Caribbean, you're more likely to match into primary care programs at undesired locations and/or IMG malignant sweatshops. At least with DO you can also match some programs outside of primary care, and primary care programs in better locations.

This is a reality that is often lost upon people fixated upon the Carib in their lust for the MD initials.

 

[Whysoez]

Would you all say though in the long run Carribbean MD is better than DO? esp if one can make it through school to match day?

The best thing that will happen to you is you will be viewed as equal to US DO and MD when you are an attending since no one cares where you went to med school.

 

[deleted831695]

Would you all say though in the long run Carribbean MD is better than DO? esp if one can make it through school to match day?

Poor man's MD or Level 2 Bone Wizard, brah?

 

[Isoval]

Poor man's MD or Level 2 Bone Wizard, brah?

I actually finally beat level 2 this morning.

That last chapman's point was really giving me some trouble, but I beat the somatic dysfunction right out of it.

 

[hallowmann]

Would you all say though in the long run Carribbean MD is better than DO? esp if one can make it through school to match day?

No.

 

[DO2015CA]

I actually finally beat level 2 this morning.

That last chapman's point was really giving me some trouble, but I beat the somatic dysfunction right out of it.

I passed level 3 earlier this month and I can not explain how happy I am to be done with Chapman’s points forever

 

[iamdamiancray]

Well only because currently I got accepted to one of the newer DO schools where their graduating class is waiting for a match (so they don't have their stats yet). In avg they say DO match rate is ~80%. But SGU has 93% match rate.

The SOMA VP went to Burrell, a newer DO school. He matched to Ophthalmology this year. As they say, US Anything>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> International.

 

[Goro]

The SOMA VP went to Burrell, a newer DO school. He matched to Ophthalmology this year. As they say, US Anything>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> International.

Burrell hasn't graduated a class yet. Has the SF match occurred already for Othal? Regular macth day isn't until March.

 

[iamdamiancray]

Burrell hasn't graduated a class yet. Has the SF match occurred already for Othal? Regular macth day isn't until March.

Opthalmology match happens earlier. It usually goes military, then ophtho, and then others.

 

[sab3156]

I've been doing research and asking current MD and DO doctors and even current med students and I really don't know which route to go. Can anyone please help me by giving me some advice?

They're both not desirable routes. But Caribbean is without a doubt a terrible idea. At least DOs have a strong chance of matching somewhere in the US even with bad board scores.

Caribbean medical schools are basically a joke. Good luck if you choose that option.

Would you all say though in the long run Carribbean MD is better than DO? esp if one can make it through school to match day?

Even if this were true (and who knows, this may be true for certain hospitals just flat out don't hire DOs), the risk of going there in the first place is likely to run you into catastrophe during the match and not worth it at all.

 

[deleted480308]

Would you all say though in the long run Carribbean MD is better than DO? esp if one can make it through school to match day?

No. Because the only benefit to “MD” is better residency options than DO......which literally only applies to US MD programs. Carrib MD doesn’t get that benefit

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Burrell hasn't graduated a class yet. Has the SF match occurred already for Othal? Regular macth day isn't until March.

Yes. So has the match for Urology.

 

[iamdamiancray]

Yes. So has the match for Urology.

You are right. Another Burrell soon to be DO just matched to Urology. I saw his post like 2 days ago. Burrell is having a great year, man. So are the other DOs. Post-2020 merge is working out.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You are right. Another Burrell soon to be DO just matched to Urology. I saw his post like 2 days ago. Burrell is having a great year, man. So are the other DOs. Post-2020 merge is working out.

Two good matches do not make a good year. We’ll see what the rest of the list looks like before making any claim on BCOM.

 

[iamdamiancray]

Two good matches do not make a good year. We’ll see what the rest of the list looks like before making any claim on BCOM.

I can only know so many people. The two Burrell people that I knew who participated on Ophtho and Uro have rocked it. You are right that we have to see how they do overall in March.

 

[gonnif]

Would you all say though in the long run Carribbean MD is better than DO? esp if one can make it through school to match day?

This is like saying what doesnt kill me makes me stronger?
1) the path from Carib to Residency to practice is littered with the corpses of those who dint make it and now need to pay back possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars and never practice clinical med
2) The success rate of starting a "good" Carib school, graduating, and actually matching into a residency is under 50%. the "best" school SGU reports that nearly 30% of their successful graduates place (ie non match mechanism) into residency (see my analysis of SGU own numbers earlier in this thread).
3) There is no way of knowing the real number of students who drop out before graduation or those who do not rank (ie no residency program wanted them) or withdraw from match (usually due to not passing STEP II). These no rank and withdraw are dropped from the totals in matching rates so effectively inflates the matching rates
4) There is no way to know how many match into specialties they really didnt want but it was all they could get (purely speculative on my part)
5) Lastly, completing residency and getting board certified still may mean a weak CV for attending positions. The real world example I have for this is a very large corporate practice I have had to deal with having about 400 MD/DO. I was quite surprised to see more than 1/2 were FMG. While FMG represent a 25% of all docs in the US, and represent 40% in primary care, it was this place that had lower salaries with more than 50%. This would suggest that they couldnt get higher paying positions and that IMG may overall have a harder time in the marketplace for hire.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

5) Lastly, completing residency and getting board certified still may mean a weak CV for attending positions. The real world example I have for this is a very large corporate practice I have had to deal with having about 400 MD/DO. I was quite surprised to see more than 1/2 were FMG. While FMG represent a 25% of all docs in the US, and represent 40% in primary care, it was this place that had lower salaries with more than 50%. This would suggest that they couldnt get higher paying positions and that IMG may overall have a harder time in the marketplace for hire.

Wow I was completely unaware that this happened, more of a reason to steer clear of the Carribean programs.

 

[DO2015CA]

This is like saying what doesnt kill me makes me stronger?
1) the path from Carib to Residency to practice is littered with the corpses of those who dint make it and now need to pay back possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars and never practice clinical med
2) The success rate of starting a "good" Carib school, graduating, and actually matching into a residency is under 50%. the "best" school SGU reports that nearly 30% of their successful graduates place (ie non match mechanism) into residency (see my analysis of SGU own numbers earlier in this thread).
3) There is no way of knowing the real number of students who drop out before graduation or those who do not rank (ie no residency program wanted them) or withdraw from match (usually due to not passing STEP II). These no rank and withdraw are dropped from the totals in matching rates so effectively inflates the matching rates
4) There is no way to know how many match into specialties they really didnt want but it was all they could get (purely speculative on my part)
5) Lastly, completing residency and getting board certified still may mean a weak CV for attending positions. The real world example I have for this is a very large corporate practice I have had to deal with having about 400 MD/DO. I was quite surprised to see more than 1/2 were FMG. While FMG represent a 25% of all docs in the US, and represent 40% in primary care, it was this place that had lower salaries with more than 50%. This would suggest that they couldnt get higher paying positions and that IMG may overall have a harder time in the marketplace for hire.

5.) or that’s pure speculation. This could be nepotism such as the CMO is IMG and if someone applies they get the job. My take is also speculation. I have never heard of primary care jobs denying IMG because they are hurting for any BE/BC physician. I have only heard of Uber competitive specialties in Bay Area/Beverly hills/nyc care about the school you went to. These practices aren’t taking DOs either.

That practice has lower pay but does it also have lower hours. For FMGs that have a lower debt burden, they could be more likely to take this position because they aren’t dropping thousands on loans in a month. If they are IMG then idk. Alllll theories

 

[gonnif]

5.) or that’s pure speculation. This could be nepotism such as the CMO is IMG and if someone applies they get the job. My take is also speculation. I have never heard of primary care jobs denying IMG because they are hurting for any BE/BC physician. I have only heard of Uber competitive specialties in Bay Area/Beverly hills/nyc care about the school you went to. These practices aren’t taking DOs either.

That practice has lower pay but does it also have lower hours. For FMGs that have a lower debt burden, they could be more likely to take this position because they aren’t dropping thousands on loans in a month. If they are IMG then idk. Alllll theories

Hence my wording

This would suggest that they couldnt get higher paying positions and that IMG may overall have a harder time in the marketplace for hire.

 

[DO_or_Die]

I've been doing research and asking current MD and DO doctors and even current med students and I really don't know which route to go. Can anyone please help me by giving me some advice?

I'm a nurse matriculating US DO and would choose DO any day over Caribbean. I work pediatric trauma as an RN and work alongside multiple DO's that consult DO's in cards, GI, pulm all the time. I got into my state DO school and would rather stay in the country that I am comfortable with. I don't believe being a DO will hinder me in any way and am not gunning for orthopedics or surgery.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I'm a nurse matriculating US DO and would choose DO any day over Caribbean. I work pediatric trauma as an RN and work alongside multiple DO's that consult DO's in cards, GI, pulm all the time. I got into my state DO school and would rather stay in the country that I am comfortable with. I don't believe being a DO will hinder me in any way and am not gunning for orthopedics or surgery.

Even surgery and ortho are much much more doable as a DO(ortho is hard) because of the former DO programs

 

[laricb]

I've been doing research and asking current MD and DO doctors and even current med students and I really don't know which route to go. Can anyone please help me by giving me some advice?

If you choose SGU and don't Graduate you probably wouldn't have made it to Residency anyway. If your a good student you shouldn't have any issues. I am a PG-3 in Diagnostic Radiology who graduated from SGU in 2017. I had plenty of interviews. Don't be persuaded by anyone on this forum you need to make your own choice.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

If you choose SGU and don't Graduate you probably wouldn't have made it to Residency anyway. If your a good student you shouldn't have any issues. I am a PG-3 in Diagnostic Radiology who graduated from SGU in 2017. I had plenty of interviews. Don't be persuaded by anyone on this forum you need to make your own choice.

Was Caribbean your only choice or did you have offers to any U.S. schools?

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

If you choose SGU and don't Graduate you probably wouldn't have made it to Residency anyway. If your a good student you shouldn't have any issues. I am a PG-3 in Diagnostic Radiology who graduated from SGU in 2017. I had plenty of interviews. Don't be persuaded by anyone on this forum you need to make your own choice.

The 2024 match will be nothing like the 2017 match, there will 1000’s more of DO and MD students in the match, Radiology is already very very competitive for IMG’s and it might be borderline impossible by then, so OP listen to us and exhaust your option for US DO and MD especially if you want anything even mid competitive, such as Rads or Anesthesia.
Look at page 66 on the pdf below:

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-IMGs.pdf

Even a 240 only gives you about a 70% chance to match in rads(not very good)

 

[laricb]

Was Caribbean your only choice or did you have offers to any U.S. schools?

I applied to just SGU

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I applied to just SGU

Folks don’t be THIS guy, do the work and go to a school here in the US!

 

[Whysoez]

I applied to just SGU

 

[laricb]

Folks don’t be THIS guy, do the work and go to a school here in the US!

Don't be this guy. Do whatever you feel comfortable with. Make your own choice. If your motivated and can handle being on an island for 2 yrs SGU will get you to where you want to go, and have an MD Degree.

 

[laricb]

I'm a nurse matriculating US DO and would choose DO any day over Caribbean. I work pediatric trauma as an RN and work alongside multiple DO's that consult DO's in cards, GI, pulm all the time. I got into my state DO school and would rather stay in the country that I am comfortable with. I don't believe being a DO will hinder me in any way and am not gunning for orthopedics or surgery.

Good Luck with that

 

[laricb]

Folks don’t be THIS guy, do the work and go to a school here in the US!

Me and 3 of my friends graduated in 2017 from SGU 2 are anesthesiologists, I am in radiology and the other is internal medicine.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Me and 3 of my friends graduated in 2017 from SGU 2 are anesthesiologists, I am in radiology and the other is internal medicine.

Again 2017 match and 2024 are gonna be worlds apart.

 

[laricb]

Again 2017 match and 2024 are gonna be worlds apart.

They have been saying that for 20 yrs I had you guys discouraging me in 2014

 

[DrStephenStrange]

They have been saying that for 20 yrs I had you guys discouraging me in 2014

Don't believe what THEY say just look at the numbers.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

They have been saying that for 20 yrs I had you guys discouraging me in 2014

All these new US schools (MD and DO) had or will have graduation dates after 2017, so their grads went or will go into the match after your cycle. Meanwhile the number of residency spots added every year is pretty much insignificant. Last year, we had a record number of US graduates that didn't match. Now answer me honestly, how long do you think the Caribbean route can remain relevant without residency expansion?

New MD schools and their first class (usually anywhere from 50 to over 150 seats each):
Western Michigan University in 2014
California Northstate in 2015
CUNY in 2016
U. of texas Rio Grande Valley in 2016
Dell in 2016
Washington state in spokane in 2017
Mayo clinic scottsdale in 2017
University of Nevada in Las Vegas in 2017
California University of science in 2018
Nova southeastern university in 2018
Hackensack Meridian in 2018
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign in 2018
TCU and UNTHSC in 2019
Indiana University at Evansville in 2020

New DO schools and their first class (usually 150 students per class except some rare exceptions):
LUCOM in 2014
WCUCOM in 2014
VCOM-Auburn in 2015
VCOM-Spartanburg in 2015
Western U.-Lebanon in 2015
BCOM in 2016
NYIT-Jonesboro in 2016
ARCOM in 2017
UIWSOM in 2017
RVUCOM-Ivins in 2017
Touro-Middletown in 2018
ICOM in 2018
CHSU in 2020
Sam Houston State in 2020

Developing Medical Schools both MD and DO shows a list of 24 schools (12 MDs and 12 DOs) seeking accreditation right now.
source: List of medical schools in the United States - Wikipedia

 

[DO2015CA]

They have been saying that for 20 yrs I had you guys discouraging me in 2014

You are the best outcome what everyone could hope for. How many littered corpses of hopeful MDs are there along the way? How many people you started school with in 2014 are now in residency

 

[laricb]

All these new US schools (MD and DO) had or will have graduation dates after 2017, so their grads went or will go into the match after your cycle. Meanwhile the number residency spots added every year is pretty much insignificant. Last year, we had a record number of US graduates that didn't match. Now answer me honestly, how do you think the Caribbean route can remain relevant without residency expansion?

New MD schools and their first class (usually anywhere from 50 to over 150 seats each):
Western Michigan University in 2014
California Northstate in 2015
CUNY in 2016
U. of texas Rio Grande Valley in 2016
Dell in 2016
Washington state in spokane in 2017
Mayo clinic scottsdale in 2017
University of Nevada in Las Vegas in 2017
California University of science in 2018
Nova southeastern university in 2018
Hackensack Meridian in 2018
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign in 2018
TCU and UNTHSC in 2019
Indiana University at Evansville in 2020

New DO schools and their first class (usually 150 students per class except some rare exceptions):
LUCOM in 2014
WCUCOM in 2014
VCOM-Auburn in 2015
VCOM-Spartanburg in 2015
Western U.-Lebanon in 2015
BCOM in 2016
NYIT-Jonesboro in 2016
ARCOM in 2017
UIWSOM in 2017
RVUCOM-Ivins in 2017
Touro-Middletown in 2018
ICOM in 2018
CHSU in 2020
Sam Houston State in 2020

Developing Medical Schools both MD and DO shows a list of 24 schools (12 MDs and 12 DOs) seeking accreditation right now.
source: List of medical schools in the United States - Wikipedia

I am not saying it isnt much harder going the carib route and I would only choose SGU and ROSS, because of there connections on the East coast. But if you can score well on your steps and finish in the top 25% of your class you wont have any issues matching.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I am not saying it isnt much harder going the carib route and I would only choose SGU and ROSS, because of there connections on the East coast. But if you can score well on your steps and finish in the top 25% of your class you wont have any issues matching.

That’s terrible, you have to finish in the TOP 25% to just match fam Med or community IM? once again folks, DONT be this guy and give up any shot you had at becoming a practicing physician , do the work, get >500 mcat and go to a DO school , any DO school but don’t even think about the carribean as existing, you rather just donate $300,000 to your preferred charity.

 

[laricb]

That’s terrible, you have to finish in the TOP 25% to just match fam Med or community IM? once again folks, DONT be this guy and give up any shot you had at becoming a practicing physician , do the work, get >500 mcat and go to a DO school , any DO school but don’t even think about the carribean as existing, you rather just donate $300,000 to your preferred charity.

Can you not read I am a Radiologist and my 2 friend are anesthesiologists

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Don't be this guy. Do whatever you feel comfortable with. Make your own choice. If your motivated and can handle being on an island for 2 yrs SGU will get you to where you want to go, and have an MD Degree.

I am not saying it isnt much harder going the carib route and I would only choose SGU and ROSS, because of there connections on the East coast. But if you can score well on your steps and finish in the top 25% of your class you wont have any issues matching.

SGU will get you where you want to go and have an MD degree, but hey, as long you are top 25% of your class you will match. LMAO dude.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Can you not read I am a Radiologist and my 2 friend are anesthesiologists

I CAN READ but dude let’s be honest you and your friends were prbly in the very top of you class the vast majority of your class matched fam Med and IM at no name spots(atleast the ones that made it to 4th year) the fact that you were at the top of your class and only got anesthesia and radiology just shows how limited your options are once your at a carribean school, average DO and MD applicants can match radiology and anesthesia and this is a known fact. So as I said before, go DO /USMD or go home.

 

[DO2015CA]

I am not saying it isnt much harder going the carib route and I would only choose SGU and ROSS, because of there connections on the East coast. But if you can score well on your steps and finish in the top 25% of your class you wont have any issues matching.

The other 3/4s of the class thought they would be top 25% too. Who would bet 300k on that?

 

[Mass Effect]

Me and 3 of my friends graduated in 2017 from SGU 2 are anesthesiologists, I am in radiology and the other is internal medicine.

They have been saying that for 20 yrs I had you guys discouraging me in 2014

Is SGU 3 years?

 

[DO2015CA]

Is SGU 3 years?

maybe he was an already MS1 when he stumbled upon sdn

 

[laricb]

maybe he was an already MS1 when he stumbled upon sdn

its 4 yrs 2 on the island 2 in the states

 

[deleted831695]

You can be bottom 5% at a DO school and still match in FM/community IM/Peds/Path. You can have multiple red flags and still probably match.

That’s a kiss of death in the islands though.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Don't be this guy. Do whatever you feel comfortable with. Make your own choice. If your motivated and can handle being on an island for 2 yrs SGU will get you to where you want to go, and have an MD Degree.

It’s ok to want to be proud of your background, But this is not good advice.

 

[DO_or_Die]

Good Luck with that

My state DO school has an excellent match list, I will be okay.