MBA vs JD vs ???

[cooldreams]

ok, so if you had the chance to do either or none at all, what choice would you make and why?

i am leaning towards saying JD because it is like a key to unlock doors basically, whereas a MBA is just knowledge - you dont have to have an MBA to do something. I am wanting to have my own medical practice but am wondering with all of the legal stuff going if have a JD with an emphasis in business would be better than an MBA ????? or maybe doing either one is just a waste of time ?? any thoughts??

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[CaptainJack02]

ok, so if you had the chance to do either or none at all, what choice would you make and why?

i am leaning towards saying JD because it is like a key to unlock doors basically, whereas a MBA is just knowledge - you dont have to have an MBA to do something. I am wanting to have my own medical practice but am wondering with all of the legal stuff going if have a JD with an emphasis in business would be better than an MBA ????? or maybe doing either one is just a waste of time ?? any thoughts??

halo from a fellow EE

it all depends on what you want out of your second degree. if you want to go into estabilishing/running non profit health orgs/ngo's, pharm consulting, hosp management, i-banking, or something to that effect, obviously go for the mba(and i plan to do this a little later in my career to establish an international public health consulting type organization).

if you want to go the health policy/counsel to fellow doc's/pharm/hmo's, etc, go for the JD. plus, you'll be sharp as hell on your feet and you'll develop some incredible crit. thinking skills.

mba opens more doors, IMO, since md/mba's have a larger role in the direct delivery of healthcare and you can jump into vastly different industries, whereas jd's tend to go farther away from the hospital and more into the law realm.

 

[doctor7]

ok, so if you had the chance to do either or none at all, what choice would you make and why?

i am leaning towards saying JD because it is like a key to unlock doors basically, whereas a MBA is just knowledge - you dont have to have an MBA to do something. I am wanting to have my own medical practice but am wondering with all of the legal stuff going if have a JD with an emphasis in business would be better than an MBA ????? or maybe doing either one is just a waste of time ?? any thoughts??

if you like to read and the extra time (i.e. opportunity cost) is of no concern: JD with emphasis on business is more valuable than an MBA any day. business just isn't that complicated. your average investment bank will offer a JD more pay to take on the same associate position as an MBA. both end up going through the bank's mini-MBA training program anyways. for matters of entrepreneurship and healthcare-related careers, a JD will serve you better because (again) business is pretty easy to pick up whereas the qualifications associated with a JD are as difficult to come by as those of an MD.

also, don't go for either unless you have an natural inclination for law or business. you're just wasting money and everyone else's time.

fyi...i went with an MBA

 

[cooldreams]

if you like to read and the extra time (i.e. opportunity cost) is of no concern: JD with emphasis on business is more valuable than an MBA any day. business just isn't that complicated. your average investment bank will offer a JD more pay to take on the same associate position as an MBA. both end up going through the bank's mini-MBA training program anyways. for matters of entrepreneurship and healthcare-related careers, a JD will serve you better because (again) business is pretty easy to pick up whereas the qualifications associated with a JD are as difficult to come by as those of an MD.

also, don't go for either unless you have an natural inclination for law or business. you're just wasting money and everyone else's time.

fyi...i went with an MBA

well when i started electrical engineering undergrad, i also researched the laws and started my own computer repair and retail business. ive made a profit on it, though not much because of a general lack of time. but im very interested in it for sure. i have tried to set the basis for doing something like this and learn as i go, but i feel like im doing it the long way... i dunno... i would really like to do one or the other and im leaning towards the jd just so i have more law background for doing it. the law seemed to me to be the hardest thing to pick up because you had to learn the ling better to fully understand how things worked. i guess this was something i wasnt sure that an mba would prepare me for. dunno.....

 

[banner]

well when i started electrical engineering undergrad, i also researched the laws and started my own computer repair and retail business. ive made a profit on it, though not much because of a general lack of time. but im very interested in it for sure. i have tried to set the basis for doing something like this and learn as i go, but i feel like im doing it the long way... i dunno... i would really like to do one or the other and im leaning towards the jd just so i have more law background for doing it. the law seemed to me to be the hardest thing to pick up because you had to learn the ling better to fully understand how things worked. i guess this was something i wasnt sure that an mba would prepare me for. dunno.....

Why waste your time getting an MD?

 

[cooldreams]

Why waste your time getting an MD?

because i want to do the business stuff IN medicine.

 

[mshheaddoc]

because i want to do the business stuff IN medicine.

You don't need an MD for that ... I know quite a few that have clinical background but aren't MD's ...

 

[banner]

because i want to do the business stuff IN medicine.

Speaking as someone who's been through the whole darn thing, I would consider other routes. Medical school is super expensive (both in direct cost and in time that you are not working and investing) and is tons of work. Also, as an entrepreneureal (sp. ?) type as you seem to be, I think that you'll be quickly frustrated by the culture of medicine with its lack of imagination and risk taking and too much theoretical focus on the needs of the patient vs. one's goal to make money. Whether they are right or wrong is up for debate, but that is the way it is.

A nursing degree is another way to go. For you with your engineering backgroud may want to consider getting a master's in medical technology.

 

[cooldreams]

Speaking as someone who's been through the whole darn thing, I would consider other routes. Medical school is super expensive (both in direct cost and in time that you are not working and investing) and is tons of work. Also, as an entrepreneureal (sp. ?) type as you seem to be, I think that you'll be quickly frustrated by the culture of medicine with its lack of imagination and risk taking and too much theoretical focus on the needs of the patient vs. one's goal to make money. Whether they are right or wrong is up for debate, but that is the way it is.

A nursing degree is another way to go. For you with your engineering backgroud may want to consider getting a master's in medical technology.

this is all encompassing for a FP type of doc which i want to be. i dont want to do so much engineering work anymore. it is really boring, the results are seldom seen, and i have a very small part in the final product.

i would like to operate my own practice as an FP someday, and am wondering if a Jd or MBA would be better suited. tht was all...

 

[mshheaddoc]

this is all encompassing for a FP type of doc which i want to be. i dont want to do so much engineering work anymore. it is really boring, the results are seldom seen, and i have a very small part in the final product.

i would like to operate my own practice as an FP someday, and am wondering if a Jd or MBA would be better suited. tht was all...

MBA would help you more than JD in running a practice ... actually a MPA might help you as well with concentration in healthcare mgmt.

 

[dentite001]

What you want to acquire depends a lot on the scope of what your trying to accomplish. The MBA generally speaking, tends to be useful for employment in very large corporations.
If your goal is to be running several private hospitals, then an MBA might be just what you need. In the extreme, a hospitals might hire someone who has a combined MBA/JD or executive MBA over someone with the MBA/MD. The medical details cease to be important when you start making large scale decisions. For example, the president of my university has a JD, not a Phd.
If your starting up your own business, simply taking some basic courses in accounting, finance, and marketing may be all you need to develop a basic business sense to grow. It should be considered that many successful entrepreneurs have no education at all.

 

[japhy]

as everyone here has already said, it depends. i am getting a jd at penn and am (mostly) happy with my decision. i am looking at getting into national health care policy. while this is possible with just a md, or perhaps a mpp, i wanted the credibility and knowledge that comes with a law degree.

this legal knowledge will also certainly be beneficial in running a hospital, practice, etc. anyway, if you are more interested in creating new products, starting a company, etc, a mba may be a better route.

sorry for the shameless plug, but a great option would be to come to penn and get either degree. as a law student you can get a business certificate from wharton (they have a phenomenal health management group), or you could take other classes (i am getting a masters in bioethics). i think roughly 10% of the class graduates with the certificate from wharton. the law school strongly encourages students to use these 4 classes outside of the law school.

anyway, if you have questions, send me a pm.

 

[DOJDEE]

go for the jd, become more well rounded. you will basically have nothing that you cannot touch just for the simple reason of degree qualifications. mathematical/engineering types tend to do better in law anyways, so maybe it is something you should look into.

 

[brotherbloat]

Speaking as someone who has a JD and is now applying to med school, I can tell you that a JD is pretty much useless if you don't practice. Your three years of law school are spent learning theory. When you graduate you have pretty much nothing in terms of concrete, usable skills--that comes with being out there in the working world and practicing. So I'd have to say that I don't think a JD in itself, without the practice experience is very useful. I don't think you have a whole lot of options to learn about business in law school, either. There's courses like corporations or business law, but there aren't many, and I don't know anyone who has concentrated in business. I don't think a JD will help me at all in the med school admissions process, in fact I think it hurts. Plus, it also hurts you when applying for non-law jobs because employers think you're overqualified and will cost too much. This is what happened to me when I was applying for glide year jobs this year. No one would hire me until I removed the JD from my resume. Then I got offers.

Don't go for the JD! It's a total waste of time and money. I regret doing it.

 

[DOJDEE]

Speaking as someone who has a JD and is now applying to med school, I can tell you that a JD is pretty much useless if you don't practice. Your three years of law school are spent learning theory. When you graduate you have pretty much nothing in terms of concrete, usable skills--that comes with being out there in the working world and practicing. So I'd have to say that I don't think a JD in itself, without the practice experience is very useful. I don't think you have a whole lot of options to learn about business in law school, either. There's courses like corporations or business law, but there aren't many, and I don't know anyone who has concentrated in business. I don't think a JD will help me at all in the med school admissions process, in fact I think it hurts. Plus, it also hurts you when applying for non-law jobs because employers think you're overqualified and will cost too much. This is what happened to me when I was applying for glide year jobs this year. No one would hire me until I removed the JD from my resume. Then I got offers.

Don't go for the JD! It's a total waste of time and money. I regret doing it.

well at some law schools you actually do internships and other things can many times do actual work at law firms. i here tell that med students are in high demand at law firms... though i would never work for a prosecution to get a client a ton of money from a doc, there are times to take licenses away from bad docs... you could also help in the defense of docs a lot too.

as for the pricing yourself out of the market, that is complete rubbish. maybe you put on your resume that the salary was negotiable and they saw all of your highlights so assume you wnat a lot without ever talking to you... sound familiar?? perhaps state what you are looking for on there too, or get some face time with your potential employer and talk about it. im sure they would like to have a lawyer on staff for a lot less than what ppl assume they make... if you find yourself priced out of a market, it is because you let yourself look like you wanted too be priced out... what do you think an employer would rather?? - a history major or a history major with a law degree?? they would think wow that would be nice but no way we could afford that... dont let them think that.......

 

[japhy]

i have to say, i find brotherbloat's account quite suspect (but maybe that is just the lawyer in me). to say that the jd is worthless is ******ed. yes, law school is more about teaching you how to think about and approach different problems, but to say that there are no hard skills taught is absurd. people focus in different areas of the law all the time whether it be corporate or health law, etc. a law degree is one of the most fungible degrees out there. unless of course, you went to ****ass u. and then your degreee wouldnt get you very far.

furthermore, more and more schools (penn, harvard, etc) strongly encourage their students to take classes outside of the law school. penn has a great business school and law students can get a certificate from wharton. there are several other md/jd students on this board (juddson and one other who i can't recall), who can offer more insight. the biggest drawback about law is the time.

 

[dentite001]

Getting a JD definately won't make you, but like anything it can often open possibilities down the road that you never even considered. Take a look at who runs America. They may not necessarily be using their law degree directly, but it likely helped them attain positions of power. An example off the top of my head are the key players in the Carlyle Group.

 

[brotherbloat]

I stand by my post that the law degree is pointless if you want to be a practicing doctor, like I do. I wish I hadn't done it, because I can honestly say that I don't remember one thing I learned in law school. At my school, which was in the first tier, but certainly not a Penn or Yale, we really didn't learn any hard skills. If a client walked into my apartment right now I wouldn't have the foggiest idea of where to begin. I couldn't draft a will, file a complaint, or even write a memo. And my summer law jobs were useless--all I did was do legal research or write memos. That, to me, isn't really hard skills.

And as for the pricing yourself out of the market, yes, that happened to me. I was looking for a glide year job, and I couldn't get any interviews. I applied everywhere--universities, banks, retail, hospitals, research. Then I took the JD off my resume and I started getting interviews. My resume and cover letter did mention the job I was seeking but said nothing about the salary being negotiable. I wasn't even offered interviews, and I blame that on the JD pricing me out of those jobs, since I have a BA in history from a top 5 liberal arts college, and had great GPAs and good work experience.

So, all in all, I do think the JD is useless and worthless. I also hate the perennial question I get asked at least 5 times a week: "so why didn't you want to practice law?" Arggghhhhhh!

-BB

 

[japhy]

i get the fact that a law degree may not be the most applicable if all you are going to be exclusively doing is practicing medicine. of all the people i know working on both degrees, few if any, are planning on only practicing medicine. some are working for firms, others are in hospital administration and others are doing health care policy.

i have to wonder though bb, did you do any clinics or externships during law school? certainly most classes do not give you practical skills. i could say the same thing about the first two years of medical school. if that is all i had, i certainly wouldn't know what to do when a patient walked in the room.

 

[doc luv]

hey cooldreams,
i've been reading all the posts on here, and from what i understand you want to get a second degree to run a practice. neither degree is necessary to run a practice, and it is a probably a waste of your time to get a second degree for that purpose. before trying to get one of these degrees i would make sure that ure not just in this for what the dean of our school likes to call "accumulating degrees". medicine is a long enough process as it is, so there's no point in getting an mba or jd if you don't plan on using it for something aside from practicing medicine. hope this helps.

 

[japhy]

also, one of the law schools in the chicago area has a master of laws degree with health professionals in mind. it can be either a 1 year full time or 2 year part time program.

it is at loyola

http://www.luc.edu/law/academics/graduate/mj/mj_health.shtml

 

[dentite001]

One word for the applicability of a combined MD-JD: Merck

 

[japhy]

lol,

there was a conference at penn yesterday over at the med school on drug reimportation. they had a representative from merck there and was simply amazed at the public relations bs that was constantly spewing from his mouth.

he had the audacity to claim that the underlying reason merck was opposed to reimportation was safety! as if vioxx wasn't responisble for numerous deaths. i realize that we are talking about different safety issues here, but seriously...