"Man" pregnant - would you be his Ob?

[Pinki]

Toooo much freetime, but watched Oprah yesterday and caught this "ahem" interesting topic - a 34 year old man pregnant in Oregon. He is a transgendered man, formerly a woman, legally now a man. Short of it is he had breast reduction, took bimonthly testosterone, legally became a man. When he and his wife, who had a hyst years ago, decided to have a baby, he went off his hormones and they played the home insemination game, so to speak.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=abu67tOtj7M&feature=related


How would you guys feel if he approached you to be his Ob? NINE other docs turned him down before he finally found a physician.

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[dreammerchants]

Well if a woman walked in with breast implants and was taking OCP (ie estrogen) but had gotten pregnant while on the pill I would take her and tell her stop taking the OCP.

In this case WOMAN (YES genetically and to a large part anatomically she is still a woman) walks in who has had a breast reduction instead of enhancement and is taking testosterone....I would take her and again tell her to stop taking the testosterone. I wouldn't see an issue if anything she'll be one heck of a case...imagine just the educational value.

 

[Global Disrobal]

I would take it in a heart beat. The interesting issue is what variation of transgender surgery he has had. Generally a male to female is the easier surgery with the best outcomes. Female to male entails lenghtening of the clitoris to form the shaft and implanting the labia to look like testicles. I wonder if there was any modifications made to the vagina inhibiting access to the cervix. Nonetheless, good case.

 

[foxycleop]

whose semen did they use?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I would take it in a heart beat. The interesting issue is what variation of transgender surgery he has had. Generally a male to female is the easier surgery with the best outcomes. Female to male entails lenghtening of the clitoris to form the shaft and implanting the labia to look like testicles. I wonder if there was any modifications made to the vagina inhibiting access to the cervix. Nonetheless, good case.

I was under the impression that he has not had genital surgery; just the bilateral mastectomies.

 

[Global Disrobal]

You are absolutely right Winged Scapula! I stand corrected.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/03/earlyshow/health/main3991687.shtml

It does look like that aside from the breast surgery, he did the medical route. In that case, its even more straight forward than one thinks. The major issue is protecting the couple socially.

 

[Winged Scapula]

It really is fascinating from a sociocultural standpoint. I wonder if previous health care providers refused service because of fear that it would stigmatize their practice because, as you point out, it should be relatively straightforward.

I also find myself wondering, since he is choosing natural childbirth, if as a man, he will be less likely to tolerate it (since we all know women tolerate pain better than men)!

 

[THP]

I would not take on this patient. I think he is a selfish a-hole. It is so wrong on so many levels that I could not be an objective and empathetic physician for this patient.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I would not take on this patient. I think he is a selfish a-hole. It is so wrong on so many levels that I could not be an objective and empathetic physician for this patient.

Why? Care to expand on your thoughts? Its a genetic female who is in a stable relationship choosing to have a child. What do you find wrong with it?

(not trying to start any flamewars, I am really curious)

 

[Ypo.]

I was wondering if he was refused by so many OBGyns because they were afraid his case would be too complicated (I don't know where in Oregon they live, but in the cities it's pretty liberal!). Let's face it; there aren't going to be too many doctors experienced in a situation like this.

That said; medically, I don't know what would be so complicated about it. He's still anatomically female. He does has the past history of use of steroids, but I'm assuming he quit taking them before he got pregnant.


Anyways, if they showed up to the practice, I don't think anyone would look twice. He looks like a guy with a beer belly. People would just assume his wife wasn't showing yet.

It's pretty despicable if they were turned away simply because of prejudice.

 

[Global Disrobal]

I would not take on this patient. I think he is a selfish a-hole. It is so wrong on so many levels that I could not be an objective and empathetic physician for this patient.

"Selfish A-Hole???"
I am respectful of everyone's opinions, just curious about the logic! From what I've read and seen, the baby will be going to a good home with what appears to be loving parents... care to elaborate?

YPO, I agree with you that there appears to be no gross difficulties with her pregnancy other than the social circumstances. You must respect the Provider's wishes if they don't want the publicity around their practice, but if the reason for the refusal was medical, I would love to hear it.

 

[Comfortdoc]

According to the interview on Oprah, he was rejected by other physicians because of the social reasons. People were afraid of the publicity and the stigma. He stopped taking testosterone 2 years before he tried to get pregnant, so I don't think that plays a big role. He was inseminated at home with a syringe, but all of the rest is perfectly natural. He's just a female with no breasts and an enlarged clitoris (due to the steroids). Not at all a complicated case except for the social issues.

 

[fab4fan]

It really is fascinating from a sociocultural standpoint. I wonder if previous health care providers refused service because of fear that it would stigmatize their practice because, as you point out, it should be relatively straightforward.

I also find myself wondering, since he is choosing natural childbirth, if as a man, he will be less likely to tolerate it (since we all know women tolerate pain better than men)!

Maybe he/she will slap herself during labor! "Get away from me! You did this to me!"

 

[THP]

Why? Care to expand on your thoughts? Its a genetic female who is in a stable relationship choosing to have a child. What do you find wrong with it?

(not trying to start any flamewars, I am really curious)

A-hole was clearly over the top - I don't know the individual. I do think he is being selfish however. This is going to create all sorts of social problems for this child. Especially going on Oprah. If you do something as weird as this why would you want it publicized on national TV. He is being an attention *****. Bringing a child into the world is of the utmost importantce and he is making a mockery of it.

I understand that some women feel like they should have been born men. Whatever, we should be sensitive to that. I am sure this person has faced both ridicule and an amazingly positive support system to make the transition from a woman to a man. After all of the surgery, hormones, and change of lifestyle to become a man he goes and does the most quintessentially female thing possible - have a baby. We are supposed to take him seriously?

Some people are just dealt a ****ty deck of cards and have to do the best they can (ie feeling you are a man when you are actually a woman). If they wanted a baby so bad then they should adopt of become foster parents. Maybe I am old fashioned but this bothers me on a visceral level which is why I couldn't be his doctor.

 

[Ypo.]

I do think he is being selfish however. This is going to create all sorts of social problems for this child. Especially going on Oprah. If you do something as weird as this why would you want it publicized on national TV. He is being an attention *****. Bringing a child into the world is of the utmost importantce and he is making a mockery of it.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

This showed poor insight and it was what I condemned more than anything else. Just a bad move. It would be better to work through an LGBT organization if they want to educate people/support their cause. Daytime talk show is good for gossip, selling books and gawking at freak shows and not much else.

 

[smq123]

I do think he is being selfish however. This is going to create all sorts of social problems for this child. Especially going on Oprah. If you do something as weird as this why would you want it publicized on national TV. He is being an attention *****. Bringing a child into the world is of the utmost importantce and he is making a mockery of it.

After all of the surgery, hormones, and change of lifestyle to become a man he goes and does the most quintessentially female thing possible - have a baby. We are supposed to take him seriously?

Some people are just dealt a ****ty deck of cards and have to do the best they can (ie feeling you are a man when you are actually a woman). If they wanted a baby so bad then they should adopt of become foster parents. Maybe I am old fashioned but this bothers me on a visceral level which is why I couldn't be his doctor.

Huh. I'd never thought of it in that light - but I can see what you're saying.

I guess I didn't think of adoption, but you're right - it's a wonderful way of giving a child a home, and always a great option. And it is going to be tough going to high school if you're that kid and your classmates get wind of this.

I know that some transgendered people choose to wait to transition, specifically because they're worried about their kids. They wait until their kids are grown up, and in the meantime suffer the emotional difficulty of being the "incorrect" gender - just so that their kids don't have to go to high school and face taunts and insensitive questions from their classmates.

I don't know - that wo/man is free to do as s/he pleases. But I can definitely see your point.

 

[Global Disrobal]

Point well made THP. I think that "going on Oprah," the child's future social dilemmas, along with the adoption options are very valid. Thanks for the clarification.

On a side note, I would still take the case. Call me an attention ***** wanting publicity for my practice

 

[Winged Scapula]

Valid points THP.

Its hard to understand people's motives for going on talk shows. Its not Jerry Springer, but its still exposing yourself, your family and your future child to ridicule (and given the nature of some of this country's viewers, potential threats). They are paid and get a free trip to Chicago, but I cannot imagine the relatively small sum would be the reason for appearing.

But I find it hard to believe that even if they hadn't appeared that this would not have gotten publicity. All it takes is one of their trailer park neighbors to spill the beans..perhaps they wanted to be the first to tell the story and to tell it in their own fashion. And for me, that's a legitimate reason to go on Oprah. I'm sure they preferred to have some control over how the information was imparted an Oprah allowed that.

The number of children in foster homes and up for adoption in this country and the number of couples spending their life's savings for fertility treatments tells me that many do not want to consider non-biological children. I can't fault them anymore than I can the couples populating this world with multiples.

 

[nykka3]

Doesn't his wife have a uterus as well as natural female genitalia including breasts ? I wonder why she didn't sign up for this instead? Just my opinion, but I think the wifey should have had the baby instead or they should of adopted. I think he just wanted attention b/c it seems as if he chose to ignore or not pursue these other options.

 

[Xandie]

I think his wife had a hyst...

And hooray to the person above who suggested foster care, although I do want to point out the reality of the system: as a person who grew up very intimately associated with foster care, I will say that it's not the picnic people portray it to be, for the kids or the families who open their homes.

 

[MaddieMay]

1. The wife had a previous hysterectomy due to severe endometriosis.

2. They used donor sperm.

3. Years ago everyone thought having two mommies or two daddies would ruin the children's lives. Never happened, not even to the very first child of two same sex parents. This child will be just fine.

4. I don't think there's anything selfish or weird about wanting to have your own biological child. It's not true that it's impossible for a man to wish he could give birth.

5. They contacted every national LGBT organization in the country for guidance and they were turned away by every single one.

6. No one gets paid to be on Oprah. Only their plane and hotel are paid for.

I'm not sure going on Oprah is such a bad way to go. You can inform everyone at the same time, yourselves, in your own words.

I'm surprised people would make so many assumptions and judgement calls without at least reading an article on it, or even the OP's post.

 

[nykka3]

I'm surprised people would make so many assumptions and judgement calls without at least reading an article on it, or even the OP's post.

well this is a quasi anonymous internet chat site so ....assumptions and judgements are freely made all the time. it only becomes a problem when you personally insult another member (TOS violation). Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether it is educated or not. Thanks for the info though. I agree with you Xandie, adoption and foster care sound like great ideas. Rearing children that are naturally yours or not is never a picnic anyway but it is still wonderful.

 

[Ypo.]

Doesn't his wife have a uterus as well as natural female genitalia including breasts ? I wonder why she didn't sign up for this instead? Just my opinion, but I think the wifey should have had the baby instead or they should of adopted. I think he just wanted attention b/c it seems as if he chose to ignore or not pursue these other options.

Is this a double standard? Do you think all people who are biologically incapable of having a child without help from modern medicine should also adopt/foster?

Apparently if you think they are capable enough to adopt, then you think they can be good parents. So why should this be any different from all the REI couples we see these days?

 

[nykka3]

Is this a double standard? Do you think all people who are biologically incapable of having a child without help from modern medicine should also adopt/foster?

Apparently if you think they are capable enough to adopt, then you think they can be good parents. So why should this be any different from all the REI couples we see these days?

Actually, I also think ppl who are biologically capable of having children should also adopt or at least consider that. This is just my opinion though.

 

[Comfortdoc]

He said that the reason he went on Oprah was because he knew that when the news about what he was doing got out, there would be a lot of gossip and false information floating around. He wanted to tell the world about what they were doing on their own terms and not have to battle the rumors. It was not a publicity stunt.

I really don't understand why anyone would say that they should adopt any more than any other couple. It's such a personal choice. You can say that the kids will be teased or whatever, but people have said that about same sex couples and so far it looks like they turn out ok.

 

[Xandie]

I didn't mean to come across as saying that this couple should adopt more than any other--I think everyone should come to their own terms about child rearing and then run with it. I'm just generally pro-adoption and pro-foster care.

 

[nykka3]

I'm just generally pro-adoption and pro-foster care.

Me too!

 

[SiRi707]

Why shouldn't you take it? I would take it in a heartbeat. Interesting case. Odd and awkward? Yes. But definitely interesting. Who knows it might even give you some recognition of sorts (so yes, there is a bit of a selfish motivation there).

 

[OBGirlie]

Well if a woman walked in with breast implants and was taking OCP (ie estrogen) but had gotten pregnant while on the pill I would take her and tell her stop taking the OCP.

In this case WOMAN (YES genetically and to a large part anatomically she is still a woman) walks in who has had a breast reduction instead of enhancement and is taking testosterone....I would take her and again tell her to stop taking the testosterone. I wouldn't see an issue if anything she'll be one heck of a case...imagine just the educational value.

I agree. Biologically, this lady is a woman. Kinda like Rue Paul, just b/c he says he's a she, we all still know he's a man. Same case here. I would refer to this woman as a "man" and respect her wishes to be treated as a "man", but it would still be your standard baby catching procedure. I think I would have had a more difficult time being the one to perform IVF on her, but that's a whole other bag of worms.

 

[Cologist]

I am very disapointed by the lack of knowledge of some of my colleagues here at SDN. Calling an unknown person an "*******" is very concerning. I sure wouldn't like you to be my doc!

Some people can be "genetically" one gender but identify with the opposite gender. Would you call a woman with androgen insensitivity a man simply because she is XY? What about an infant girl with CAH who has a virilized clitoris? Would you call her a man because despites being XX, what she has between her legs looks like a small phallus?

Gender identity goes much further than chromosomes and genitals. Some papers are showing more and more data on the fact that transsexuals have a problem at the level of the brain's sexual differentiation. There's much more work to be done on this in order to pull the gender identity disorder out of the DSM-IV and give it a proper medical diagnosis but in the meantime getting educated on the reality of transgendered individuals should be part of any medical curriculum.

LGBT (that's stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered) folks have been having children way before this guy showed up on Oprah. There will always be people who think that kids with LGBT parents will end up messed up but research shows that those fears end up not being true. My children (for example) are well adapted, doing great in school, have many friends despites being in a LGBT family.

As for this guy not being a real guy because he decided to get pregnant. I think that some transman (female-to-male transsexual) are confident enough in their masculinity yet smart enough to recognize that they have to deal with the cards they were handed, especially if they want biological children. Adoption and foster care sounds like a great idea...but in certain states, they may be still considered like a lesbian couple and thus are barred from adoption.

As a future OB/GYN (I'm MS4 now), I am really looking forward to include the transgender community in my practice.

 

[OBGirlie]

I am very disapointed by the lack of knowledge of some of my colleagues here at SDN. Calling an unknown person an "*******" is very concerning. I sure wouldn't like you to be my doc!

Some people can be "genetically" one gender but identify with the opposite gender. Would you call a woman with androgen insensitivity a man simply because she is XY? What about an infant girl with CAH who has a virilized clitoris? Would you call her a man because despites being XX, what she has between her legs looks like a small phallus?

Gender identity goes much further than chromosomes and genitals. Some papers are showing more and more data on the fact that transsexuals have a problem at the level of the brain's sexual differentiation. There's much more work to be done on this in order to pull the gender identity disorder out of the DSM-IV and give it a proper medical diagnosis but in the meantime getting educated on the reality of transgendered individuals should be part of any medical curriculum.

LGBT (that's stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered) folks have been having children way before this guy showed up on Oprah. There will always be people who think that kids with LGBT parents will end up messed up but research shows that those fears end up not being true. My children (for example) are well adapted, doing great in school, have many friends despites being in a LGBT family.

As for this guy not being a real guy because he decided to get pregnant. I think that some transman (female-to-male transsexual) are confident enough in their masculinity yet smart enough to recognize that they have to deal with the cards they were handed, especially if they want biological children. Adoption and foster care sounds like a great idea...but in certain states, they may be still considered like a lesbian couple and thus are barred from adoption.

As a future OB/GYN (I'm MS4 now), I am really looking forward to include the transgender community in my practice.

Again, for me, I still look at him as a her because he was born a female and later decided to alter his body image to look as a male. Having androgen insensitivity is a medical condition, so I am not sure that should even be compared or thought of in this situation. (Gender preference is NOT a medical condition).

I look forward to including the transgender community in my practice as well, however, I still will work in the boundaries that I feel comfortable and not try to get caught up in the political hoopla oneway or the other.

 

[Cologist]

Again, for me, I still look at him as a her because he was born a female and later decided to alter his body image to look as a male. Having androgen insensitivity is a medical condition, so I am not sure that should even be compared or thought of in this situation. (Gender preference is NOT a medical condition).

I look forward to including the transgender community in my practice as well, however, I still will work in the boundaries that I feel comfortable and not try to get caught up in the political hoopla oneway or the other.

Again, some studies shows that GID (Gender Identity Disorder) may well be in fact a medical condition, with an etiology based on brain sexual differentiation. For female to male transexuals, a mutation of CYP17 gene has been identified as a potential susceptibility marker and an older research based on the number of somatostatin in the nucleus of the stria terminalis showed that male to female transsexuals have an equal number of those neurons than women. Needless to say, those are small studies and much more work needs to be done in order to confirm this (I can't imagine justifying the risks of brain biopsies on living people just for research) but there is a growing trend here.

I attended a trans conference last year where I met parents who knew that from a very young age, their child was "different" (asking to be called a different name, only wearing underwears or pull-ups from the opposite gender and so on). Gender identity (not gender preference), just like sexual orientation, is not a choice and even the DSM-IV recognizes that surgery and hormone replacement is the only relief for GID.

This guy transitionned later in life but one must understand that transitioning, just like any other coming out of the closet, is a personal process. I do not believe that this guy "decided" to take hormones and go under the knife because he just "felt" more like a man. He is a man and underwent transition to present himself to the world this way after facing hurdles that were placed in his way solely because of our own prejudices and ignorance. Society doesn't look at someone's brain in order to decide if somebody is male or female...we look between the two big toes. 99.9% of the time, we are right...but sometimes, we are wrong and we need to look deeper than somebody's genitals and chromosomes before making a final call of male vs female.

Boston Children's Hospital has a wonderful clinic for children with GID if anyone is interested in checking their website up.

 

[OBGirlie]

Again, some studies shows that GID (Gender Identity Disorder) may well be in fact a medical condition, with an etiology based on brain sexual differentiation. For female to male transexuals, a mutation of CYP17 gene has been identified as a potential susceptibility marker and an older research based on the number of somatostatin in the nucleus of the stria terminalis showed that male to female transsexuals have an equal number of those neurons than women. Needless to say, those are small studies and much more work needs to be done in order to confirm this (I can't imagine justifying the risks of brain biopsies on living people just for research) but there is a growing trend here.

I attended a trans conference last year where I met parents who knew that from a very young age, their child was "different" (asking to be called a different name, only wearing underwears or pull-ups from the opposite gender and so on). Gender identity (not gender preference), just like sexual orientation, is not a choice and even the DSM-IV recognizes that surgery and hormone replacement is the only relief for GID.

This guy transitionned later in life but one must understand that transitioning, just like any other coming out of the closet, is a personal process. I do not believe that this guy "decided" to take hormones and go under the knife because he just "felt" more like a man. He is a man and underwent transition to present himself to the world this way after facing hurdles that were placed in his way solely because of our own prejudices and ignorance. Society doesn't look at someone's brain in order to decide if somebody is male or female...we look between the two big toes. 99.9% of the time, we are right...but sometimes, we are wrong and we need to look deeper than somebody's genitals and chromosomes before making a final call of male vs female.

Boston Children's Hospital has a wonderful clinic for children with GID if anyone is interested in checking their website up.

Just curious as to whether the LBGT community is recognizing GID as a disorder. If I recall, back in the 80s when there was investigation into whether or not being "gay" was a mental disease or defect it didn't go over to well. . . Interesting though, but unfortunately, I just don't view sexual choice or gender selection as a "condition". That's just me, not saying its right or wrong, but that's how I'll base my opinions.

 

[Cologist]

Just curious as to whether the LBGT community is recognizing GID as a disorder. If I recall, back in the 80s when there was investigation into whether or not being "gay" was a mental disease or defect it didn't go over to well. . . Interesting though, but unfortunately, I just don't view sexual choice or gender selection as a "condition". That's just me, not saying its right or wrong, but that's how I'll base my opinions.

Sexual orientation = no need for medical treatment, not a disorder, not a mental disease, not a condition and not a choice.

GID = need for medical treatment, hence, need diagnosis. Sadly, right now it is a psychiatric diagnosis but a lot of activism is going on right now to remove GID from DSM-IV and put it as a medical diagnosis (just like CAH, androgen insensitivity, Kleinfelter, and other "disorders of sexual differentiation"). GID is not a mental disease and not a choice.

Signing off....

 

[generica]

Cologist, I would echo your sentiment of disappointment and embarrassment at the lack of knowledge and understanding of the ob/gyn community and, here, of future ob/gyns. Calling this patient an "a-hole" is ridiculously unprofessional. Calling him "selfish" for choosing to have biological children is absurd as an Ob, whose job it is to help people through their biological pregnancies (REI is a booming business for both straight and queer couples, and no one would question a straight male-born-male for wanting to have biological children either). To refuse to correct pronouns or continually referring Mr. Beatie as a "woman" shows a complete lack of respect for the patient in general. And it's even more enraging to hear people say you'd be his doctor because "it's a great case," albeit "awkward." Patients are not sideshows to be fascinated or bewildered by.

While GID may in fact prove to have a biological basis (I haven't yet read those studies--I will), I think it's irrelevant. Gender (how one identifies along the spectrum of masculinity/femininity) is separate from genital/phenotypical sex, which is sometimes also distinct from chromosomal sex (as in AIS). Even if gender identity (in this case, acting masculine in character and identifying as male) is chosen/performed/constructed and not a "medical condition," and even if a person chooses to take surgical/medical means to align their sexual phenotype (testosterone, top surgery)---it doesn't and shouldn't preclude them from wanting to have biological children within their means. Indeed, arguing that gender is "chosen" (even when rigidly adhered to through sex-reassignment surgery) implies fluidity...and allows for fluidity in its expression. If he is comfortable being pregnant, he has the right to do so--regardless of his wife's fertility, his deepened voice, or his androgenic hair patterns.

I understand this in new and strange for most people (the lay public and docs alike), but would hope that all of us learn how to compassionately treat all of our patients, no matter how bizarre or unsettling we might find them at first. Our concern should be for the patient's health and well-being--and that starts by understanding them and meeting them where they're at, even if that's confusing or difficult. It's our responsibility as physicians to learn about our patients when we, at first, don't understand. The fact that many of the first impulses of people here was to be disgusted or angry or self-righteous makes me lose faith in my future colleagues.

 

[OBGirlie]

Cologist, I would echo your sentiment of disappointment and embarrassment at the lack of knowledge and understanding of the ob/gyn community and, here, of future ob/gyns. Calling this patient an "a-hole" is ridiculously unprofessional. Calling him "selfish" for choosing to have biological children is absurd as an Ob, whose job it is to help people through their biological pregnancies (REI is a booming business for both straight and queer couples, and no one would question a straight male-born-male for wanting to have biological children either). To refuse to correct pronouns or continually referring Mr. Beatie as a "woman" shows a complete lack of respect for the patient in general. And it's even more enraging to hear people say you'd be his doctor because "it's a great case," albeit "awkward." Patients are not sideshows to be fascinated or bewildered by.

While GID may in fact prove to have a biological basis (I haven't yet read those studies--I will), I think it's irrelevant. Gender (how one identifies along the spectrum of masculinity/femininity) is separate from genital/phenotypical sex, which is sometimes also distinct from chromosomal sex (as in AIS). Even if gender identity (in this case, acting masculine in character and identifying as male) is chosen/performed/constructed and not a "medical condition," and even if a person chooses to take surgical/medical means to align their sexual phenotype (testosterone, top surgery)---it doesn't and shouldn't preclude them from wanting to have biological children within their means. Indeed, arguing that gender is "chosen" (even when rigidly adhered to through sex-reassignment surgery) implies fluidity...and allows for fluidity in its expression. If he is comfortable being pregnant, he has the right to do so--regardless of his wife's fertility, his deepened voice, or his androgenic hair patterns.

I understand this in new and strange for most people (the lay public and docs alike), but would hope that all of us learn how to compassionately treat all of our patients, no matter how bizarre or unsettling we might find them at first. Our concern should be for the patient's health and well-being--and that starts by understanding them and meeting them where they're at, even if that's confusing or difficult. It's our responsibility as physicians to learn about our patients when we, at first, don't understand. The fact that many of the first impulses of people here was to be disgusted or angry or self-righteous makes me lose faith in my future colleagues.

Okay I am signing off after this. Just because not everyone agrees with what this guy is doing doesn't mean that they are wrong. We have our own belief systems period. When someone ask me if I believe in Darwin's Evolution, I say no, even though I am a scientist. I am a human being with my own belief systems. I feel that I have in no way disrespected this individual by saying that I would not do REI on him. I wouldn't. I also am not going to participate in abortions or selective embryo reduction. Why? Because it goes against my value system. Would I help them find a physician that would? Yes, and that is what I am required to do. Just because I am a physican doesn't mean I have to do everything for everyone at the expense of my own moral discomfort.

That is my stance on the issue, I don't apologize. If I ever meet him or someone else like him, I will provide care in the realm that I feel morally comfortable (including gynecology care, etc). I don't feel the need to change this in order to be viewed as PC by the masses. I treat all that I meet with respect and I will continue to do so. Everyone deserves respect and to receive care, it is our job to make sure that patients end up in a practice that can fulfill their needs, if we are unable to do so.

 

[OBandWifey]

Me personally...i wouldn't take the case. And that's because of personal and religious reasons. But putting that aside I have a major problem with someone screaming that they want to be recognized as they truely are...which in this case she feels she's a man...and then do the opposite. MEN DON'T HAVE BABIES!!! They don't....never have and never will. So if you want me to view you as a man then act like a man...if your "wife" is infertile then adopt like the other thousands of couples that can't have children naturally. It just pisses me off they she/he wants both. And then to say that it's human nature to want a baby so it's ok...no it's not ok. Humans do have the urge to have babies...but men don't want to carry the baby...they just want to have children...so I hated that she/he made it seem that all men wanted to give birth to their child...I'm 300% sure that my fiance is ok with me carrying our future kids LOL.
Besides the fact that I'm grossed out by it. I'm more bothered by the fact that this person wants it both ways and wants society to accept it...like it's ok...like it's the new black. And then this poor child. They took pictures of "daddy pregnant"...went on TV and paraded it. Can you imagine. It was hard for me being the darkskinned kid in the class...i can only imagine what this child is going to go through. I think it was a selfish choice. Even if she/he wanted their biological kid then get a surrogate to carry the baby. Plain and simple YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

 

[THP]

Me personally...i wouldn't take the case. And that's because of personal and religious reasons. But putting that aside I have a major problem with someone screaming that they want to be recognized as they truely are...which in this case she feels she's a man...and then do the opposite. MEN DON'T HAVE BABIES!!! They don't....never have and never will. So if you want me to view you as a man then act like a man...if your "wife" is infertile then adopt like the other thousands of couples that can't have children naturally. It just pisses me off they she/he wants both. And then to say that it's human nature to want a baby so it's ok...no it's not ok. Humans do have the urge to have babies...but men don't want to carry the baby...they just want to have children...so I hated that she/he made it seem that all men wanted to give birth to their child...I'm 300% sure that my fiance is ok with me carrying our future kids LOL.
Besides the fact that I'm grossed out by it. I'm more bothered by the fact that this person wants it both ways and wants society to accept it...like it's ok...like it's the new black. And then this poor child. They took pictures of "daddy pregnant"...went on TV and paraded it. Can you imagine. It was hard for me being the darkskinned kid in the class...i can only imagine what this child is going to go through. I think it was a selfish choice. Even if she/he wanted their biological kid then get a surrogate to carry the baby. Plain and simple YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

Thank you! I knew there were other people who agreed with me. Obviously, they had to try several OBs before they could find a doc.

By the way, I already noted that calling him an a-hole was over the top.

 

[crazy4OB]

I just want to weigh in as a graduating MS4 entering the specialty. I would not feel comfortable assuming her care. I was confused by her comments about viewing pregnancy solely as a process which is not uniquely female or male. I think that to truly identify with the male identity, i agree with OBandWifey that men do not have babies. It is a wonderful beautiful female experience and she has the innate right to want to bear children but it raises doubts in my mind if she is does not have penis envy rather than gender identity disorder. I am by no means an expert in GID but it was contrary to the idea of being born in the wrong body compared to feeling more comfortable in male clothing and liking how males are treated by society. If she wants to be identified as a male than she has to agree that she is still a woman having a baby and that is what would be in contradiction to my beliefs. I think dialogue is great but let's respect each other right to our own opinion.

 

[crazy4OB]

P.S Just want to clarify what I mean by "Penis envy" I took this from a websearch:

Penis envy does not consist in wanting to change sex but fits into the narcissistic continuity: the girl would like to have the narcissistic and social advantages linked with the possession of a penis, rather than the organ itself (Horney, 1922), especially if she has the experience of her father and mother putting more value on the male child.

 

[KHE]

I would take it in a heart beat. The interesting issue is what variation of transgender surgery he has had. Generally a male to female is the easier surgery with the best outcomes. Female to male entails lenghtening of the clitoris to form the shaft and implanting the labia to look like testicles. I wonder if there was any modifications made to the vagina inhibiting access to the cervix. Nonetheless, good case.

Screw the surgery....when I want to get in touch with my femine side, I'll just wear a set of my wife's lingerie.

KIDDING!!! I'M KIDDING!!

or am I?

 

[nykka3]

I guess our forum is not the only forum discussing and giving our opinions on this topic.

http://drslounge.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=511101