Low Steps, feeling insecure

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lorian99

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I’m an M4 at my state school in the Midwest applying to psych and I'm feeling rattled after speaking with my school's advisers this week. They want me to strongly consider applying to FM as a backup because my step scores are on the lower end - step 1 206 and step 2 229. The only thing is it's probably too late to get the LOR's, PS, and whatever else prepared by September 29. I was surprised by their recommendations because they gave me the impression that I would have trouble even getting interviews in psychiatry. I'm sure they're recommending this because they don't want me to go unmatched, but at the same time I can't imagine myself doing anything other than psych.

I'm planning on applying to all the psych programs in the Midwest, which comes out to ~60 programs. Should I add more community programs outside the Midwest? Should I also apply to FM as a backup?

If it helps any, on my core rotations I got an O on psych, 2 HP’s and 3 P’s. No failures or red flags.

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I am not sure if I can answer your question directly, but let me offer my experience which may help. I am a newly graduated resident from a school I would consider somewhat prestigious in terms of psychiatry training. My scores were very similar to yours when I applied and as a result I applied to around 30 schools netting only 9 interviews. I matched to my first rank program.

Now the field of psychiatry has changed since I applied, and from what I have seen and heard from my colleagues it has gotten a lot more competitive. If I were to apply again, with the knowledge I have from seeing 4 cycles of residency interviews, I would approach the application process in two separate ways. 1) Get interviews 2) Be genuine.

The first is that I would apply to as many psychiatry programs as I could (dependent on your financial situation). What you want are interviews, the more the better. At my program once you were offered in interview, it was a signal from the department that yes "on paper" you would be a good fit for our program. They did not offer many interviews in comparison to the applications they received. I applied to 30 programs or so and received 9 interviews. Although there were some "strong applicants of interest" prior to the interview, our program genuinely compared everyone at the end of the interview process fairly. Many times those strong applicants were not so strong in person, and other times there were some strong surprises from other applicants.

The interview itself was a test in which residents and faculty would get a feel for who you were. They were looking for residents who would compliment their program. I cannot tell you how many times residents during the final review process were put to the side because someone (faculty or other residents) determined that their might be a red flag. A red flag will be highly dependent on where you are applying. In other words 2-3 drinks on the west coast may not seem like a red flag, but ordering 2-3 drinks in the midwest may seem like one (true story!). The best bet, is to be genuine. You will match at a program in the end that will truly value who you are as a person. It is pretty easy as psychiatrists (even as residents) to see if a person is faking who they are. And plus you don't want to act fake and match at a program that won't mesh well with who you are.

In summary, if it were me I would apply to all the psych programs I could. I myself don't like FM and would never apply for it even if it was my last choice. I would then go to all the interviews I could and try to just be normal. In the end, if I didn't match (and I know plenty who haven't) I would do an extra year in school (work with your medical school) and reapply the following year. Try to get to know people at your home institution's psych department. Then reapply. I know some of my colleagues that matched into FM because they were not competitive in other specialties because admin told them to. And you know what? They hate it, it wasn't their passion. They are all trying to figure a way back to what they wanted to do. If Psych is what you want to do, then do it. Don't let one decision dictate your life.

Hope this helps! BTW of course this is just my experience, and others out there may have different ones. Good luck!
 
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To my mind, because the average step scores still look fairly similar between FM and Psych, I think the rec from your advisor to apply to FM as a back-up is purely due to the "numbers game" aspect of a play-it-safe strategy. There are many more FM programs than psych programs, and so likely there is a longer tail on the "less competitive" side of the normal distribution curve, in terms of where you can match.

However, the other way to play the numbers game is just to apply very broadly in psychiatry. I think that yes, if you apply to more community psychiatry programs outside of your region, you will be sufficiently playing it safe. If you don't have any Step failures and you're from a US MD school, I don't think you need to enlist the further insulation of applying to community FM programs.

Only caveat is if matching in your region is a bigger deal to you than matching in Psychiatry; in that case it would be better to apply to community FM programs in your region.

But really, I think you will get psych interviews in your region anyways. Prepare well for those - have good questions ready that are specific to the programs.
 
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Im a current psych PGY1 who applied last year and my scores are comparable to yours. I got a 216 on step 1 and a 226 on step 2. I also went to a state school in the Midwest. Psych might be getting more competitive in some sense, but I don’t think test scores are the most important factor for matching psych. I’d say you have as much of a shot as I had last year, and it worked out for me. I wish you luck.
 
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Thank you all for your thoughts, they're reassuring to read. I'll stick with applying only to psych. I'm willing to go anywhere so I'll apply more broadly in addition to all the programs in the Midwest.
 
If I knew I would be unhappy with FM, and my goal was truly psych, I would take a chance at some of the many brand new programs. Some of them my be fairly good, some of them probably not so good, but I would rather risk an unknown and take a chance than I would want to get stuck at a known "not so good" program or find myself delivering babies on a FM rotation. You will get a chance to interview and you can always black ball them.
 
I had 10+ interviews including big academic programs and matched to my #1 academic program with Step scores lower than yours. My application did have considerable psych background (research, volunteer work, professional experience) and many commented on my personal statement.
 
I didn't do well on Step 1 but improved a bunch to average ish for step 2. Good evals but nothing spectacular. No red flags. But I believe that I rocked the interviews and had a stellar essay. For interviews, I felt like I got along with almost everyone but was myself, often got into really interesting convos with residents and we seemed to enjoy each other's company. I was also able to leverage my mental health related EC's and explain my interest in a way that did make some of the interviews take time to comment about how they thought I was an impressive candidate (I was still insecure about my chances lol). For my essay, my advisor wanted to use it as a model for future med students.

The above is not to play myself up at all but to admit my Step shortcomings and put it out there that if you have a nice genuine personality, an interesting and relevant story, and the ability to advocate your strengths both verbally and in the essay, you'll likely be fine. I said hell no to a backup specialty and applied broadly as well.
 
Again, going for the verified worst psych programs is probably worse than FM back up plans, but going for some of the just born new programs at least could go either way and only you can decide how willing you are to do FM vs. psych in a potentially not disappointing program.
 
If you were dead set on going to the northeast or california, I might agree.... but if you're hoping to match at the midwest, I'd be shocked if you didn't match tbh.

No one wants to do it, but odds are you'd be able to soap either psych or FM in the same geographical area if push came to shove.
 
I think you'll be fine applying to just psych with that profile and a goal of staying in the Midwest. If you had your heart set on California, we'd be having a different convo.
 
If you were dead set on going to the northeast or california, I might agree.... but if you're hoping to match at the midwest, I'd be shocked if you didn't match tbh.

No one wants to do it, but odds are you'd be able to soap either psych or FM in the same geographical area if push came to shove.
SOAPing family med maybe but there have been VERY few psych spots in SOAP recently, so I certainly wouldn't count on there being anything in a particular region. But as I said above I agree with you I don't think this poster needs to be worried.
 
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SOAPing family med maybe but there have been VERY few psych spots in SOAP recently, so I certainly wouldn't count on there being anything in a particular region. But as I said above I agree with you I don't think this poster needs to be worried.

Fair enough! I know a few people that did last cycle but it was into newer programs that got accredited late and may not have been in the actual match. I forget the actual details.

But yeah, I think geography and 'origin story' are the important things here. Scores check the box. No red flags. Good letters. If you come across as someone that they think would work well in the program, I don't think they're going to punt you because your step 1 score was low. You passed step 2 fine and aren't really a danger for failing step 3 or boards. They're really the most worried about someone failing step 3 when it comes to scores. I don't think community programs get into pissing contests about how to inflate their step 1 score average lol.
 
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Apply widely and have 4 LORs in psych. You will be good!
 
I don't think community programs get into pissing contests about how to inflate their step 1 score average lol.
Don't be so sure. soon, there aren't step II scores, this will become more of a thing. All programs have to report our average scores on FRIEDA every year and applicants do look at these averages. USMLEs are the only thing that is objective and a ruler that measures applicants independent of their schools. It is far from the end all of an applicant, but it is unique and something.
 
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I've finalized my program list and I'm feeling better about my chances, thank y'all. I'm still targeting the Midwest but added many community programs in the rest of the country, including the brand new ones. It comes out to ~100 programs, which is probably too many, but I'm willing to spend the money if it means I'm more likely to match.

For the rest of my app, I've got solid letters, psych-related EC's, and some great comments on my MSPE, but probably the most compelling thing about me is my story, which I detail in my PS. If programs can see past my scores, I'm sure that my narrative can get me some interviews.
 
Hey y'all,

I'm a month into the interview season and wanted to share that I got 9 interviews! They're from a surprising mix of academic and community programs and 8 of them are programs in the Midwest. There were a couple programs I was hoping to hear from by now, but I'm happy with the invitations I have.
 
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Hey y'all,

I'm a month into the interview season and wanted to share that I got 9 interviews! They're from a surprising mix of academic and community programs and 8 of them are programs in the Midwest. There were a couple programs I was hoping to hear from by now, but I'm happy with the invitations I have.

Congratulations!

I would reach out to some of those programs that you want to go to in the next couple of weeks. A few targeted letters could be helpful as long as they're compelling. A lot of people (like you) have shotgunned applications, so if you can tell someone why you'd actually want to go there, that might get you an interview.

I'd do this judiciously though.
YMMV.
 
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Hey y'all,

I'm a month into the interview season and wanted to share that I got 9 interviews! They're from a surprising mix of academic and community programs and 8 of them are programs in the Midwest. There were a couple programs I was hoping to hear from by now, but I'm happy with the invitations I have.
after seeing your initial post I was 99% sure you would. Im confident you will match as well. American MD with no red flags and you're applying to reasonable programs, odds are definitely in your favor. Congrats!
 
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Hey gang! Wanted to thank y'all for your guidance and give you the update that I matched at my #2, a university psych program in a large Midwestern city that I'm from. I was hoping to experience a new city with my #1, but after seeing friends and family back home, I'm glad I'll be returning to the area.

I ended up getting 12 interviews mostly from universities with 3 or 4 from community programs. I had just one interview from a program outside the Midwest, which was a bit of a bummer because of all the cash I dropped to cast my net wider, but it worked out. I could tell that my steps got me screened out of the bigger name programs and even my home program. But of the programs I interviewed at, I would've been happy at any of them. They all seemed to be solid, well-established programs with happy residents. At the end of this (virtual) interview season, location was often the primary factor in sorting my rank list.

Anyway, I'm not sure what programs found appealing enough about my application to extend interviews despite my low steps and other shortcomings, but perhaps being a USMD with no red flags is enough.
 
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Hey gang! Wanted to thank y'all for your guidance and give you the update that I matched at my #2, a university psych program in a large Midwestern city that I'm from.
Great update. Almost every large midwestern city has a really good university psychiatry residency so just playing the numbers the odds are you are ending up at a great spot!
 
Yeah, I feel like I am going to be in the same boat. Pass for step 1, all clinical rotations were Pass, practice step 2 scores were in the 220s. Am taking a research year, so that might show commitment. I’d be thrilled if I matched psych anywhere that wasn’t terrible - I’d be happy with a community program in South Dakota. Psych was really the only thing I was interested in when I started medical school to be honest.
 
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