Low GPA, 2 MCAT attempts, aiming DO WAMC?

[ratscientist]

I graduated from a UC school last June 2018, majored in Physiology and came out with a 3.43 cGPA and 3.21 sGPA, with an a steady upward trend throughout the 4 years (I started at a 2.92 my first quarter). I've taken the MCAT twice now, 1st attempt 504 (124/124/128/128) and 2nd attempt 507 (130/121/130/126). I am a CA resident and ORM. I have 200 hours of clinical volunteering, 100 hours non-clinical volunteering, 300 hours of researching and in the process of getting a paper published, I had leadership positions in my fraternity, co-founded a pre-health club, I do not have any MD/DO shadowing hours but I am currently in the process of getting that done in the next 3 months.

I was originally planning on applying this coming cycle to matriculate in 2020, but with the recent release of my latest MCAT score (507) I'm concerned if I should wait, retake the MCAT for a 3rd time to raise that CARS score, and maybe even do a postbacc program to raise my GPA up a bit (I know the GPA won't be raised by that much since I already have lots credit/units accumulated). Taking the MCAT a 3rd time worries me b/c I know taking it more than twice will negatively impact my application. Since my GPA is on the lower end, I aiming to attend a lower-tier MD school or DO school. I know that the avg matriculating GPA and MCAT score for DO schools are roughly around ~3.5-3.6 and ~500-505, which I am not too far off from. I feel like I have solid ECs (but please critique and be honest with me if I'm lacking something).

I would really like your guys' honest opinions about what you think I should do. Should I wait and improve my application by retaking the MCAT and doing postbacc, or should I just go for it and apply this cycle? I am completely okay with attending DO school as I'm aiming for primary care either way. I just know that while retaking my MCAT for a 3rd time to raise that CARs and doing a postbacc will increase my chances of getting accepted, I just don't know if it is absolutely necessary if I just need to get into 1 DO or lower-tier MD school. Waiting to retake the MCAT and doing a postbacc will take another year and another ~$30,000 depending on the program I apply for and I would really like to save that time and money and put it to better use. I know that if I want to increase my chances I should apply early and broadly. For the people who think I should just apply, how many schools do you recommend me applying to? 20? 30? If you could give me names of specific schools I would also appreciate that very much. If adcoms could provide their 2-cents as well that would be extremely helpful in making my decisions.

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[ThrowawayShmoaway]

IMO, chances are probably very, very low for MD given the GPA/MCAT(s) combo and being ORM and a CA resident. Find a DO physian ASAP and get some meaningful shadowing hours in (enough that you feel comfortable asking for an LOR) then apply heavily to DO. Can’t hurt to apply to the CA state MD schools and maybe a few low yield ones if you have the money, too, but DO is your best shot.
I think a third MCAT retake is risky for you and not worth it. Applying after a year of post-bacc work would probably improve your chances for DO.

 

[Faha]

You are competitive for most DO schools with your current stats. You may need a DO LOR for some schools. Apply broadly to at least 12 schools and you should receive interviews.

 

[ratscientist]

IMO, chances are probably very, very low for MD given the GPA/MCAT(s) combo and being ORM and a CA resident. Find a DO physian ASAP and get some meaningful shadowing hours in (enough that you feel comfortable asking for an LOR) then apply heavily to DO. Can’t hurt to apply to the CA state MD schools and maybe a few low yield ones if you have the money, too, but DO is your best shot.
I think a third MCAT retake is risky for you and not worth it. Applying after a year of post-bacc work would probably improve your chances for DO.

Thank you for the advice! what are some of the low-yield MD schools would you be referring to?

 

[ratscientist]

You are competitive for most DO schools with your current stats. You may need a DO LOR for some schools. Apply broadly to at least 12 schools and you should receive interviews.

Do you know which DO schools I'll have the best chances of matriculating into? I still haven't figured out which DO schools are considered higher tier and lower tier, if such a hierarchy exists.

 

[Faha]

I suggest these schools:
Western U
TUCOM
TUNCOM
ACOM
ATSU-SOMA
BCOM
UIWSOM
ACOM
PCOM (all schools)
MU-COM
VCOM (all schools)
LECOM (all schools)

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

I graduated from a UC school last June 2018, majored in Physiology and came out with a 3.43 cGPA and 3.21 sGPA, with an a steady upward trend throughout the 4 years (I started at a 2.92 my first quarter). I've taken the MCAT twice now, 1st attempt 504 (124/124/128/128) and 2nd attempt 507 (130/121/130/126). I am a CA resident and ORM. I have 200 hours of clinical volunteering, 100 hours non-clinical volunteering, 300 hours of researching and in the process of getting a paper published, I had leadership positions in my fraternity, co-founded a pre-health club, I do not have any MD/DO shadowing hours but I am currently in the process of getting that done in the next 3 months.

I was originally planning on applying this coming cycle to matriculate in 2020, but with the recent release of my latest MCAT score (507) I'm concerned if I should wait, retake the MCAT for a 3rd time to raise that CARS score, and maybe even do a postbacc program to raise my GPA up a bit (I know the GPA won't be raised by that much since I already have lots credit/units accumulated). Taking the MCAT a 3rd time worries me b/c I know taking it more than twice will negatively impact my application. Since my GPA is on the lower end, I aiming to attend a lower-tier MD school or DO school. I know that the avg matriculating GPA and MCAT score for DO schools are roughly around ~3.5-3.6 and ~500-505, which I am not too far off from. I feel like I have solid ECs (but please critique and be honest with me if I'm lacking something).

I would really like your guys' honest opinions about what you think I should do. Should I wait and improve my application by retaking the MCAT and doing postbacc, or should I just go for it and apply this cycle? I am completely okay with attending DO school as I'm aiming for primary care either way. I just know that while retaking my MCAT for a 3rd time to raise that CARs and doing a postbacc will increase my chances of getting accepted, I just don't know if it is absolutely necessary if I just need to get into 1 DO or lower-tier MD school. Waiting to retake the MCAT and doing a postbacc will take another year and another ~$30,000 depending on the program I apply for and I would really like to save that time and money and put it to better use. I know that if I want to increase my chances I should apply early and broadly. For the people who think I should just apply, how many schools do you recommend me applying to? 20? 30? If you could give me names of specific schools I would also appreciate that very much. If adcoms could provide their 2-cents as well that would be extremely helpful in making my decisions.

If you delay your application by a year, and simply use that time to gain a whole bunch of community service/volunteering hours with Habitat for Humanity, Peace Corps/AmeriCorps, some volunteer with the homeless, somehow aiding disadvantaged youths etc. You will be competitive for almost all the mission heavy schools. 507 isn’t bad at all, and several of my classmates have your score. However, your lackluster 100 hours of non-clinical volunteering (sorry if that comes out mean) definitely won’t cut it.

I’m not completely positive, but I think one of the only reasons myself and a few others were accepted with ~500 scores is because we were VERY community service heavy. I’m talking thousands of hours.

 

[ratscientist]

If you delay your application by a year, and simply use that time to gain a whole bunch of community service/volunteering hours with Habitat for Humanity, Peace Corps/AmeriCorps, some volunteer with the homeless, somehow aiding disadvantaged youths etc. You will be competitive for almost all the mission heavy schools. 507 isn’t bad at all, and several of my classmates have your score. However, your lackluster 100 hours of non-clinical volunteering (sorry if that comes out mean) definitely won’t cut it.

I’m not completely positive, but I think one of the only reasons myself and a few others were accepted with ~500 scores is because we were VERY community service heavy. I’m talking thousands of hours.

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate the honesty and that's what I am really here for. I just got a volunteer position at my local church community service center that helps out with the homeless as well as youth centers. My plan is that I have these next three months (March, April, and May) be dedicated to fulfulling those non-clinical hours, and then I should be able to accumulate another 100+ hours by the time I apply in June/July. Do you think if I follow this plan I'll have a decent shot? Or should I still wait and keep volunteering for another year?

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate the honesty and that's what I am really here for. I just got a volunteer position at my local church community service center that helps out with the homeless as well as youth centers. My plan is that I have these next three months (March, April, and May) be dedicated to fulfulling those non-clinical hours, and then I should be able to accumulate another 100+ hours by the time I apply in June/July. Do you think if I follow this plan I'll have a decent shot? Or should I still wait and keep volunteering for another year?

I mean nothing is impossible. And a 507 really isn’t a bad score. The problem is the timing of your volunteer hours. If they’re mostly clustered towards the end (as in when you plan to apply), they may not be taken as genuine. I did this my first cycle and was rejected...harshly. Then again, my MCAT score wasn’t a 507. Maybe try it out, can’t hurt any if you have the spare change

 

[JimBone905]

Man that CARS score... I feel u there.

 

[deleted807068]

If you delay your application by a year, and simply use that time to gain a whole bunch of community service/volunteering hours with Habitat for Humanity, Peace Corps/AmeriCorps, some volunteer with the homeless, somehow aiding disadvantaged youths etc. You will be competitive for almost all the mission heavy schools. 507 isn’t bad at all, and several of my classmates have your score. However, your lackluster 100 hours of non-clinical volunteering (sorry if that comes out mean) definitely won’t cut it.

I’m not completely positive, but I think one of the only reasons myself and a few others were accepted with ~500 scores is because we were VERY community service heavy. I’m talking thousands of hours.

This is to advise is in response to admission to an MD school, right? I think OP has a good application for most DO schools.

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

This is to advise is in response to admission to an MD school, right? I think OP has a good application for most DO schools.

Yeah for MD schools. At this point, going to a DO school is a hassle if you want to do anything outside of primary care, gen surg, path, or anesthesiology.

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

If you’re going to try to gun for MD, then you probably really need to do post-bacc coursework. A 507 is not a terrible score, but paired with your GPAs, you will be going up against more competitive applicants that may have just as much volunteering (assuming you take an additional gap year for service activities), but with better stats in one or both metrics. (Even at more mission-based schools)

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

If you’re going to try to gun for MD, then you probably really need to do post-bacc coursework. A 507 is not a terrible score, but paired with your GPAs, you will be going up against more competitive applicants that may have just as much volunteering (assuming you take an additional gap year for service activities), but with better stats in one or both metrics. (Even at more mission-based schools)

Lol I think you overestimate how little volunteering applicants do. The average is between 100-200 hours, which doesn’t show squat in my opinion. If OP takes a year off and shows that he’s dedicated to provide care to the disadvantaged (perhaps volunteering + 1 yr MPH), I can almost guarantee he will get in.

I came from a 1 yr MPH, and had classmates with lower stats getting into some impressive schools. They were all ORM

 

[ratscientist]

Hey guys, OP here, I really appreciate the feedback I've been getting!

Just wanted to clear some things up. So I do have consistent community service hours throughout my undergrad years. They're mainly from the volunteering events my fraternity did and from my school's Colleges Against Cancer club that organized Relay for Life for my school every year. I attended all these events, which always occur around the same time of the year, every year. Its just I didnt have too many hours accumulated since there'd be about 1 event/ month and 2-6 hours/ event. I'm also working on getting more community service hours through my local church shelter and will be committed to that for a while. So based on this update, do you guys think consistency matter more or number of hours matter more? From the comments it seemed that consistency mattered more? Do you guys still think I should take a year off just to devote myself to community service?

I was also wondering if anyone knows how reapplying to DO schools will affect my chances the 2nd time I apply. As of now I was planning on attending a postbacc, applying to DO schools at the same time, while still keeping up with volunteering and shadowing, and seeing where that takes me. My initial thought process was that if I can get in this cycle, I get in. If I don't, I'd have the grades from the postbacc and the extra hours to show schools what I did to make myself more competitive. Do you guys think I'd have a good shot if I were to apply this cycle? I'm aiming to have 100 hours of shadowing and an extra 80-100 hours of community service by the time I apply in June. I also live in a rural place in CA, so some of the doctors I've been shadowing are practicing rural medicine.

 

[ratscientist]

I suggest these schools:
Western U
TUCOM
TUNCOM
ACOM
ATSU-SOMA
BCOM
UIWSOM
ACOM
PCOM (all schools)
MU-COM
VCOM (all schools)
LECOM (all schools)

After talking to a few of my friends currently in DO schools, I was advised that it might be a bad idea to apply to all schools for a certain program? They said that it may come off as me shotgunning for a program as opposed to actually thinking about where I want to go. I was just wondering what you're thoughts on applying to multiple campuses for the same school and why that may be a better strategy?

 

[Faha]

It is not a problem at all. It gives you more options.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Yeah for MD schools. At this point, going to a DO school is a hassle if you want to do anything outside of primary care, gen surg, path, or anesthesiology.

How difficult is it to land a psych residency from a DO school?

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

How difficult is it to land a psych residency from a DO school?

Feel better about yourself bro?

 

[ratscientist]

Man that CARS score... I feel u there.

do you think its worth another retake?

 

[JimBone905]

do you think its worth another retake?

Even though your overall score is relatively high, I would say so just to be safe. Some schools superscore subsections so even if u get a lower score as long as your CARS is higher by a few points you could have like a 510 superscored. But if you're fine with DO, I think you're very competitive in terms of the MCAT. @Goro has stated before that CARS gets the most leeway for DO at least and you have very high science subsections. If you don't want to you don't have to. I think you'll be fine for DO.

EDIT: sorry didn't notice your first score. Superscored, you have a 510 so I wouldn't retake for DO and you could apply to some MD's that take superscored MCATs. Although, your sGPA is very low. maybe take a 1 semester post-bacc to raise it? Just some food for thought.

 

[ratscientist]

Even though your overall score is relatively high, I would say so just to be safe. Some schools superscore subsections so even if u get a lower score as long as your CARS is higher by a few points you could have like a 510 superscored. But if you're fine with DO, I think you're very competitive in terms of the MCAT. @Goro has stated before that CARS gets the most leeway for DO at least and you have very high science subsections. If you don't want to you don't have to. I think you'll be fine for DO.

EDIT: sorry didn't notice your first score. Superscored, you have a 510 so I wouldn't retake for DO and you could apply to some MD's that take superscored MCATs. Although, your sGPA is very low. maybe take a 1 semester post-bacc to raise it? Just some food for thought.

Thanks for the feedback. I just got accepted into a postbacc program within my state, I'm pretty set on attending it but just was unsure if I should go for the 3rd attempt. Would DO schools view a 3rd attempt negatively?

 

[deleted807068]

Yeah for MD schools. At this point, going to a DO school is a hassle if you want to do anything outside of primary care, gen surg, path, or anesthesiology.

I would include Internal medicine as well. But regardless, with the specialties you listed, OP or anyone in DO has great career options for themselves.

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

I would include Internal medicine as well. But regardless, with the specialties you listed, OP or anyone in DO has great career options for themselves.

You guys are a little too anal retentive. I wasn’t making a comprehensive list, more so letting OP know that DO is great for non-competitive specialties. Unless he or she wishes to go into ENT, neurosurgery (direct route), plastic surgery (direct route), urology, orthopedics, rad onc, derm, etc. Why should it matter?

I was in a similar situation as OP, except I knew exactly what I wanted to do...and it was in one of the specialties I mentioned up above. So I fought like hell to get into an MD despite people trying to bully me into going DO

 

[deleted807068]

You guys are a little too anal retentive. I wasn’t making a comprehensive list, more so letting OP know that DO is great for non-competitive specialties. Unless he or she wishes to go into ENT, neurosurgery (direct route), plastic surgery (direct route), urology, orthopedics, rad onc, derm, etc. Why should it matter?

I was in a similar situation as OP, except I knew exactly what I wanted to do...and it was in one of the specialties I mentioned up above. So I fought like hell to get into an MD despite people trying to bully me into going DO

Relax a little G - I'm not disagreeing with you.

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Relax a little G - I'm not disagreeing with you.

This wasn’t only addressed to you

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Hello, do you really think I am a young man? I would practice what you preach. You might get kicked out!

I’m not playing this game. You need to take some time to grow up