Lords of COVID Quackery

[CetiAlphaFive]

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FLCCC is The Frontline COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance: Dedicated to COVID prevention & treatment, empowering individuals for better health.

covid19criticalcare.com

These quacks have a bunch of bull**** pseudoscience on this website aimed at fueling our terminally stupid Karens.

They even have a section dedicated to helping Karens harass pharmacy staff hahahahha

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Overcoming-Pharmacy-Barriers.pdf

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[Rockinacoustic]

 

[mustang sally]

Some days I feel like if I hear one more person mention the word invermectin I'm going to lose it.

 

[DagS132]

the disclaimer at the bottom should give it away but it somehow doesnt....

 

[Pronounce Doxazosin]

In all seriousness, what’s the risk of filling an ivermectin script for a patient? (assuming it’s not being prescribed at crazy high dose)

I just don’t see how this is any different than any other drug being prescribed for an off-label use (which we all know happens quite often)

PS I’m not supporting using ivermectin for Covid

 

[sfachine]

In all seriousness, what’s the risk of filling an ivermectin script for a patient? (assuming it’s not being prescribed at crazy high dose)

I just don’t see how this is any different than any other drug being prescribed for an off-label use (which we all know happens quite often)

PS I’m not supporting using ivermectin for Covid

We fill Tamiflu and you can argue that does as little as Ivermectin does.Look at all the Airbornes and the Cold Eezeas and other OTCs with ephedrine.Christ.Two thirds of the OTC section is a joke.

 

[Seriously Serious]

Pharmacist's who deny ivermectin scripts are only doing it for their fragile egos, they will never admit it. In a profession where we are paid six-figures a year to essentially be a doormat to patients & providers, you have to milk the small victories.

100 years from now this will be viewed as the Salem witch trials of medicine. Where MDs/DOs are having their creditability & licenses targeted for merely stepping out from this current political groupthink (sponsored by Pfizer).

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Pharmacist's who deny ivermectin scripts are only doing it for their fragile egos, they will never admit it.

Or...I don't know...because it doesn't work...

 

[Seriously Serious]

Or...I don't know...because it doesn't work...

Yet, you do not apply that thought process to other prescribed drugs? There is an obvious bias, and that it my point.

 

[projektreverb]

Yet, you do not apply that thought process to other prescribed drugs? There is an obvious bias, and that it my point.

Except this is the crowd that will literally avoid anything that’s actually on label indicated for covid just to pwn the libs.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Yet, you do not apply that thought process to other prescribed drugs? There is an obvious bias, and that it my point.

I think a lot of pharmacists would refuse to fill prescriptions based on mass internet hoax based therapies.

I guess I don't know that for sure, though. I've never seen anything quite like this before. Where laymen read nonsense studies that have already been retracted.

It's pretty weird.

 

[RxPreceptor]

So with EUA Molnupiravir and PAXLOVID available commercially at select locations (my current store)...can we finally stop beating this dead horse with baseball bats?

Employees leaving at all time record high for getting tired of putting up with **** fits & temper tantrums from grown @$$ "adults".
Pharmacy is no place for demonstrating political beliefs (vs. evidence based medicine)

 

[footfairy]

Yet, you do not apply that thought process to other prescribed drugs? There is an obvious bias, and that it my point.

I turned down hydroxychloroquine when that was used as well?
Also turned down methadone at retail for substance abuse disorder and buprenorphine for pain when it's obviously for SAD.
I've turned down daily MTX despite 3 people at the oncology clinic saying it was their standard treatment (It wasn't. They were all MA/RNs that just read the escribe and assumed their doctor was right).
I've turned down Fentantly 100mcg patches as the patients previous opioid therapy was only Norco 5 qid.
I've turned down lamictal 150mg because their was no ramp up.

Do you know why I turned these all down? Because the evidence based medicine and governing bodies of medicine and pharmacy all have said these therapies were inappropriate.

You're correct though, there is an obvious bias. Except the bias is the one YOU have in favor of this nonsense therapy.

 

[Seriously Serious]

Except this is the crowd that will literally avoid anything that’s actually on label indicated for covid just to pwn the libs.

If you spent 5 min to read the preface, you would understand these protocols are designed for poorer countries that are not privileged with the resources of the US.

"While vaccination is part of the solution, it will take many months if not years to vaccinate 70-85% of the world’s population of 7.8 billion people required for “herd immunity”. We believe that the I-MASK+ protocol provides a bridge to universal vaccination. Furthermore, we have developed the I-MASS protocol for a MASS Distribution campaign to lessen the impact of COVID-19 in resource-poor countries"

Heck, if you can even call it privilege. We're literally being experimented on.

Remdesivir	WHO recommends against the use of remdesivir in COVID-19 patients Association of Remdesivir Treatment With Survival and Length of Hospital Stay Among US Veterans Hospitalized With COVID-19
mAb	Federal allocations of monoclonal antibody treatments paused
Molnupiravir	When molnupiravir was given to pregnant animals, molnupiravir caused harm to their unborn babies

 

[Seriously Serious]

So with EUA Molnupiravir and PAXLOVID available commercially at select locations (my current store)...can we finally stop beating this dead horse with baseball bats?

Employees leaving at all time record high for getting tired of putting up with **** fits & temper tantrums from grown @$$ "adults".
Pharmacy is no place for demonstrating political beliefs (vs. evidence based medicine)

We can't stop beating the horse until science says otherwise (a large RCT). Every single published paper, whether pro-ivermectin or not, is inconclusive due to "larger trials may be needed"... the fact that triggers some professionals just tells you how deeply corrupted people are by their political beliefs.

I'm optimistic with the newer outpatient agents. However, it is way too soon to dismiss potentially safe alternatives that are affordable by all socioeconomic backgrounds.

Sorry if that triggers you. Actually, I am not.

 

[RxPreceptor]

We can't stop beating the horse until science says otherwise (a large RCT). Every single published paper, whether pro-ivermectin or not, is inconclusive due to "larger trials may be needed"... the fact that triggers some professionals just tells you how deeply corrupted people are by their political beliefs.

I'm optimistic with the newer outpatient agents. However, it is way too soon to dismiss potentially safe alternatives that are affordable by all socioeconomic backgrounds.

Sorry if that triggers you. Actually, I am not.

PAXLOVID & Molnupiravir are zero co-pays regardless of insurance bro...

 

[projektreverb]

If you spent 5 min to read the preface, you would understand these protocols are designed for poorer countries that are not privileged with the resources of the US.

"While vaccination is part of the solution, it will take many months if not years to vaccinate 70-85% of the world’s population of 7.8 billion people required for “herd immunity”. We believe that the I-MASK+ protocol provides a bridge to universal vaccination. Furthermore, we have developed the I-MASS protocol for a MASS Distribution campaign to lessen the impact of COVID-19 in resource-poor countries"

Heck, if you can even call it privilege. We're literally being experimented on.

So your solution to all of this is to skip the vaccine, and any of the treatments that were studied for covid and go with ivermectin to treat, even tho you said more studies are needed for that? Please walk me thru that logic

 

[sfachine]

So with EUA Molnupiravir and PAXLOVID available commercially at select locations (my current store)...can we finally stop beating this dead horse with baseball bats?

Employees leaving at all time record high for getting tired of putting up with **** fits & temper tantrums from grown @$$ "adults".
Pharmacy is no place for demonstrating political beliefs (vs. evidence based medicine

PAXLOVID & Molnupiravir are zero co-pays regardless of insurance bro...

They will probably work just as well as Tamiflu did and Tamiflu went through the entire approval process.Roche made out like a bandit.

 

[Seriously Serious]

PAXLOVID & Molnupiravir are zero co-pays regardless of insurance bro...

For now.... to US citizens...... which is PAID for by another entity..... you think India is going to dish out 1 billion doses of Paxlovid to its citizens for free? Keep dreaming.

 

[Seriously Serious]

So your solution to all of this is to skip the vaccine, and any of the treatments that were studied for covid and go with ivermectin to treat, even tho you said more studies are needed for that? Please walk me thru that logic

Where did I say to skip the vaccine?....

ANY new COVID treatment available in the US is under severe LIMITED supply.... paxlovid is literally distributed to a handful of pharmacies nationwide every two weeks.... mAb treatment is either under limited supply or strictly not distributed....

What about the large majority of patients who have been vaccinate, contract COVID w/ worsening symptoms with NO AVAILABLE treatment?... Even worse, what about countries that still do not have access to vaccine? Do they sit around and wait to be hospitalized or do they take a chance on a promising, low cost, readily available treatment, that has a less adverse profile than a snickers bar.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Where did I say to skip the vaccine?....

ANY new COVID treatment available in the US is under severe LIMITED supply.... paxlovid is literally distributed to a handful of pharmacies nationwide every two weeks.... mAb treatment is either under limited supply or strictly not distributed....

What about the large majority of patients who have been vaccinate, contract COVID w/ worsening symptoms with NO AVAILABLE treatment?... Even worse, what about countries that still do not have access to vaccine? Do they sit around and wait to be hospitalized or do they take a chance on a promising, low cost, readily available treatment, that has a less adverse profile than a snickers bar.

Sure PAXLOVID might be out of stock/difficult to come by, but I have a MOUNTAIN of Molnupiravir. Molnupiravir having significantly fewer interactions and Liver function to worry about.

I'm done/have met my quota for responding to @Seriously Serious & nonsense in general for the time being, good night!

 

[Seriously Serious]

Sure PAXLOVID might be out of stock/difficult to come by, but I have a MOUNTAIN of Molnupiravir. Molnupiravir having significantly fewer interactions and Liver function to worry about. I'm done/have met my quota for responding to @Seriously Serious & nonsense in general for the time being, good night!

You have a mountain of molnupiravir for a reason......... Nobody wants the teratogenic risk. You literally HAVE to counsel on that when you dispense it to the patient......

How many times have you had providers call in paxlovid and rather call other pharmacies than prescribe that?

 

[owlegrad]

…or do they take a chance on a promising, low cost, readily available treatment, that has a less adverse profile than a snickers bar.

Are we still talking about ivermectin?

 

[Sparda29]

Ivermectin is a neurotoxin. Why would you want to fk around with that?

 

[projektreverb]

You have a mountain of molnupiravir for a reason......... Nobody wants the teratogenic risk. You literally HAVE to counsel on that when you dispense it to the patient......

How many times have you had providers call in paxlovid and rather call other pharmacies than prescribe that?

Good sir, have you heard of Accutane?

No medicine is without risk. It’s about balancing risk versus benefit. You seem to want to avoid any medical risk with using treatment or a vaccine and would rather let the disease take its course, if I’m gathering your responses right.

Is letting covid run its course really a risk free endeavor in your opinion?

 

[MatCauthon]

This just shows the US. needs to make a new department and funding that studies off patent drugs and non prescription items for health conditions. An office that takes no funding from big pharma. There is too much bias against these types of therapies in our current healthcare setup. The organization would have to be structured independent of pharma funding or people with ties to the pharma industry. So many other potential anti viral therapies to study beyond ivermectin/hydroxychloroquine.


Molnupiravir shouldn't have ever even been allowed to be approved due to teratogenic concerns in mice. Rick Bright brought a whistle blower suit against this 1.5 years ago. Alot of potential corruption behind the scenes with hedge funds and what not. There were other promising antivirals in the same class as molnupiravir that didn't have teratogenic effects but never even made it out of phase 1 trials for covid because NIAID killed the study. Why molnupiravir was allowed to go forward is a great mystery.

 

[projektreverb]

This just shows the US. needs to make a new department and funding that studies off patent drugs and non prescription items for health conditions. An office that takes no funding from big pharma. There is too much bias against these types of therapies in our current healthcare setup. The organization would have to be structured independent of pharma funding or people with ties to the pharma industry. So many other potential anti viral therapies to study beyond ivermectin/hydroxychloroquine.


Molnupiravir shouldn't have ever even been allowed to be approved due to teratogenic concerns in mice. Rick Bright brought a whistle blower suit against this 1.5 years ago. Alot of potential corruption behind the scenes with hedge funds and what not. There were other promising antivirals in the same class as molnupiravir that didn't have teratogenic effects but never even made it out of phase 1 trials for covid because NIAID killed the study. Why molnupiravir was allowed to go forward is a great mystery.

So because the system is corrupt, we should skip the vaccine, get infected with COVID and take ivermectin?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

This just shows the US. needs to make a new department and funding that studies off patent drugs and non prescription items for health conditions. An office that takes no funding from big pharma. There is too much bias against these types of therapies in our current healthcare setup. The organization would have to be structured independent of pharma funding or people with ties to the pharma industry. So many other potential anti viral therapies to study beyond ivermectin/hydroxychloroquine.


Molnupiravir shouldn't have ever even been allowed to be approved due to teratogenic concerns in mice. Rick Bright brought a whistle blower suit against this 1.5 years ago. Alot of potential corruption behind the scenes with hedge funds and what not. There were other promising antivirals in the same class as molnupiravir that didn't have teratogenic effects but never even made it out of phase 1 trials for covid because NIAID killed the study. Why molnupiravir was allowed to go forward is a great mystery.

You realize we use teratogenic drugs literally all time time, right?

Heck, I probably wrote for them a dozen times yesterday. ACE inhibitors.

 

[projektreverb]

You realize we use teratogenic drugs literally all time time, right?

Heck, I probably wrote for them a dozen times yesterday. ACE inhibitors.

Don’t tell this guy that, he’d rather have people stroke out based on his previous response.

 

[RxPreceptor]

I am just baffled by the illogical argument and statements made about drugs not being used/avoided simply for being teratogenic

 

[JustFillIt]

Look - I have a very open position to all proposed/hypothesized treatments. I will treat anyone with the respect that they deserve that wants to use IVM, or whatever the hell else they want to use to attempt treatment. As long as it is under the advisement of a level headed healthcare professional.

However - at this point, I will take this much more seriously if your first line of defense is to just get the vaccine. Let’s talk/consider those things after you took your first 2 vaccines.

I tested positive for COVID about 8 days ago and I was doing great until last night. It Kicked my a$$ bigtime. I had a blood pressure if 180/115 average for about 3 hours. I was all messed up and dizzy - I could not think or move right. I almost went to the hospital but I had some hydralazine in my medicine cabinet (previous bp issues) which I took. I have had 3 covid shots since their inception.

 

[owlegrad]

I will treat anyone with the respect that they deserve that wants to use IVM…

I am probably splitting hairs here, but I suspect everyone here can say that. The disagreement lies in how much respect they deserve.

I don’t blame patients for being misinformed though, I blame prescribers and pharmacists who are willing to go along with whatever has caught the publics attention even after there is clear evidence against it. If the medical community is willing to do that, what is even the point of us? If patients are capable of weighing the risks and benefits of medications on their own, what is the point of us? We should be the safety net in place to prevent the misuse of medications imo even when that role isn’t pleasant.

Sorry you got so sick and glad you recovered!

 

[mustang sally]

If ivermectin were some kind of miracle cure, you can bet Merck would be capitalizing the sh$t out of it, not posting statements on their website about how it shouldn't be used for the treatment or prevention of Covid-19.

Also, if I am choosing between putting ivermectin and a Snickers bar in my body, the Snickers bar is definitely going to win out.
Though I do not believe that Snickers should be used for the treatment or prevention of Covid-19. It is for my personal satisfaction only.

 

[JustFillIt]

If ivermectin were some kind of miracle cure, you can bet Merck would be capitalizing the sh$t out of it, not posting statements on their website about how it shouldn't be used for the treatment or prevention of Covid-19.

I heard a new one the other day. I was told that the new oral drugs are re-purposed ivermectin formulations which are being touted as anti-virals.

I didn’t know how to take a compassionate point of view on that one. I just gave them the, “oh really” response and kinda just moved on.

 

[mustang sally]

I heard a new one the other day. I was told that the new oral drugs are re-purposed ivermectin formulations which are being touted as anti-virals.

I didn’t know how to take a compassionate point of view on that one. I just gave them the, “oh really” response and kinda just moved on.

Yeah, I get kind of sick of the whole "medical deep state" ideas that are going around. Had a patient's son tell me the other day that he knew we were only treating his Mom's PE with enoxaparin because I have to push the "big money" medications for hospital profit . Try rationalizing and explaining standard of care to someone like that.

 

[JustFillIt]

Yeah, I get kind of sick of the whole "medical deep state" ideas that are going around. Had a patient's son tell me the other day that he knew we were only treating his Mom's PE with enoxaparin because I have to push the "big money" medications for hospital profit . Try rationalizing and explaining standard of care to someone like that.

I feel like the internet has made “medical experts” out of everyone.

 

[MatCauthon]

You realize we use teratogenic drugs literally all time time, right?

Heck, I probably wrote for them a dozen times yesterday. ACE inhibitors.

Don’t tell this guy that, he’d rather have people stroke out based on his previous response.

Molnupiravir is not just teratogenic it is also mutagenic. The mutagenic properties are what make it a highly questionable drug, especially when there were other drugs in the future same class being studied by the NIAID for other RNA viruses such as yellow fever.

It is not illogical to question the safety of a mutagenic drug which itself has limited benefit for covid. Molnupiravir also has a complicated history where it was resurrected by a hedge fund Ridgeback before being hawked to Merck. Many scientists did protest this to the FDA. Paxlovid is a much better bet as an antiviral for covid.

 

[projektreverb]

Molnupiravir is not just teratogenic it is also mutagenic. The mutagenic properties are what make it a highly questionable drug, especially when there were other drugs in the future same class being studied by the NIAID for other RNA viruses such as yellow fever.

It is not illogical to question the safety of a mutagenic drug which itself has limited benefit for covid. Molnupiravir also has a complicated history where it was resurrected by a hedge fund Ridgeback before being hawked to Merck. Many scientists did protest this to the FDA. Paxlovid is a much better bet as an antiviral for covid.

Except his sole rationale was “it’s teratogenic”. Ok so is Accutane.

Let’s be real, if this weren’t such a political topic. No one would give any of this a second look.

 

[owlegrad]

Except his sole rationale was “it’s teratogenic”. Ok so is Accutane.

Let’s be real, if this weren’t such a political topic. No one would give any of this a second look.

You keep bringing up Accutane but seem to be forgetting that it treats a very serious medical condition, unlike Molnupiravir. You have to weigh risk vs benefit.

 

[projektreverb]

You keep bringing up Accutane but seem to be forgetting that it treats a very serious medical condition, unlike Molnupiravir. You have to weigh risk vs benefit.

I guess you don’t have to worry about acne if you’re dead right?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Molnupiravir is not just teratogenic it is also mutagenic. The mutagenic properties are what make it a highly questionable drug, especially when there were other drugs in the future same class being studied by the NIAID for other RNA viruses such as yellow fever.

It is not illogical to question the safety of a mutagenic drug which itself has limited benefit for covid. Molnupiravir also has a complicated history where it was resurrected by a hedge fund Ridgeback before being hawked to Merck. Many scientists did protest this to the FDA. Paxlovid is a much better bet as an antiviral for covid.

Mutagenic you say?

Prove it.

 

[DH1987]

The main reason I refuse ivermectin scripts is because of the dosing it requires to be therapeutic. I don't know of any major studies that outline the safety of these treatment doses that are being prescribed. On top of that, the Infectious Disease Society of America does recommend against the use of ivermectin for COVID-19 treatment or prevention. And if the prescriber is out of state without a reasonable explanation for logistics, there's a pretty much zero chance I will fill it.

And if Karen wants to try to get me fired or my license removed, I will wish her the greatest luck. I am so burned out and tired of people's **** that I almost hope they succeed.

 

[MatCauthon]

Mutagenic you say?

Prove it.

This is well known, and was discussed heavily during the FDA proceedings. Molnupiravir is not a drug we should get too excited about, especially with its limited benefit.


Molnupiravir: long-term safety questions linger as approvals approach

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

This is well known, and was discussed heavily during the FDA proceedings. Molnupiravir is not a drug we should get too excited about, especially with its limited benefit.


Molnupiravir: long-term safety questions linger as approvals approach

Ah, you meant mutagenic to the virus. I thought you meant to humans.

 

[MatCauthon]

Ah, you meant mutagenic to the virus. I thought you meant to humans.

did you finish the article? it discusses human mutagenic potential as well. This drug was shelved for many years for mutagenic findings in animals

 

[owlegrad]

This is well known, and was discussed heavily during the FDA proceedings. Molnupiravir is not a drug we should get too excited about, especially with its limited benefit.


Molnupiravir: long-term safety questions linger as approvals approach

Why do they spell it foetus? I tried to use Google but all I got were results telling me to spell it fetus 😂

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

did you finish the article? it discusses human mutagenic potential as well. This drug was shelved for many years for mutagenic findings in animals

Potential being the key word

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Why do they spell it foetus? I tried to use Google but all I got were results telling me to spell it fetus 😂

It's the common UK spelling.

foetus - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.m.wiktionary.org

 

[Old Timer]

There is NOT one single RCT of any decent power that shows Ivermectin works. The larger studies that showed efficacy were retracted due to fraud. The data was faked. The original study that showed it worked in vitro is hobbled by the fact it wuld be impossible to produce systemic levels comparable in humans based in Ivermectin kinetics.
So, THERE IS NO DATA, NONE, THAT SUPPORTS IVERMECTIN TO TREAT OR PREVENT COVID-19.

 

[Old Timer]

P.S. Medicare and private insurance wasted 129 million dollars on Ivermectin in the last year.