Loma Linda class of 2013.

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1John5vs7

1John5vs7

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Greetings to everyone reading this!

My cursory examination of the search results for "Loma Linda" show me that the only 'class of 2013' thread for Loma Linda is for the pre-dents (and congrats to them if they wander into this thread par accident! :D).

As such, I thought I would start one specific for this purpose. I saw some posts about acceptance in the secondary thread and the interview cycle thread.

However, the thread that I'm starting is specifically for people who HAVE been accepted, as well as any questions other people might have (i.e. What time of day did Dr. Nyirady call? (to which I would answer around 2pm Central on Friday).

I am starting this thread because I have had an interesting week, and I figured I'd share a good story with you wonderful folks.

So on Friday, I was laid off from my job. Ouch. Long story short, the economy caused the local home-care management organization to consolidate a bunch of other organizations. When that happened, they decided they were going to stop paying my company every other week (as they had been doing for years) and would start paying every other MONTH.

Well, my boss didn't have the cash for a 60 day float period, so he made some cuts, and I was the newest hire, unfortunately. The last in is the first out, as they say. I went home at around 10:30 thinking to myself, "I could swear there was some superstition about Friday the 13th being unlucky..." briefly before dismissing it as a silly notion.

Fortunately my wife was home, and greeted me with the good news that she had been accepted to La Sierra University, which is a sister school to Loma Linda. This was great news, because it meant that as soon as I got into Loma Linda (which, due to certain Providencial events in my life, I was assuming was a fait accompli despite my best efforts to stuff my foot in my mouth) she could transfer and finish her undergraduate degree without us having to be geographically insulated from one another by the plains states...and as an afterthought the Rocky Mountains (which are aptly named, by the way).

Despite this news, I was feeling understandably dejected about the loss of gainful employment, especially in light of the inflationary depression in which our nation (and much of the rest of the world, alas) is presently gridlocked.

I immediately made a phonecall to a friend who got me set up to get another job, albeit one that has nothing to do with medicine. I immediately left the house to go interview for this position (successfully! Huzzah!), leaving my cell phone at home because I did not want to deal with it during an interview (bulging pockets look unprofessional according to my self-assessment).

When I got home, there was the cell phone sitting there on my table as I had left it. It didn't beep. It didn't flash. It didn't do anything. I checked it and it had no missed calls or new voicemails. "Darn, another week without an acceptance from Loma Linda," I thought.

It wasn't until Saturday night after the close of Sabbath, when my friends and I were going to the store, that suddenly my cell phone said "Hey guy, you missed a call!" Splendid! Well done, AT&T Mobility, you clever devil. And let me spread the (un)love around to Motorola Razor phones, too. You keep this up and you're going to get a good hard glaring at!

I check the voicemail, and sure enough it's Dr. Nyirady. But all he says on the phone is "I'd like to talk with you when you have a moment. Please call me at XXX-XXX-XXXX." In the words of Charlie Brown, "AUUUUUGH!"

I've got to assume that he was calling to say I'm accepted, but I don't want to get my hopes up in case it was just something about a glitch with my application. But then I immediately think "Well it's not like he's going to call every person who is NOT accepted because the poor fellow would never get off the phone from January straight through until June!" And I'm not ragging on Loma Linda, I'm saying ALL medical schools get orders of magnitude more applications than they have positions to fill. The unfortunate result is that many brilliant people do not get to realize their dream of being a doctor, at least not at a U.S. school anyway.

At any rate, I have tried to remedy this situation by calling today, but it seems either Loma Linda is not answering phones (unlikely) or they have taken Priesdent's Day off (likely). I'll have to sit on a bed of coals for another 24 hours.

SO, the moral of this story is tripartite:

1.) Make sure your phone is charged and on (if it's a cell phone and not a land line) and that you are within audible distance of it on Friday afternoons.

2.) Dr. Nyirady is *KILLING* me!!!!!!!!! :scared::laugh:

3.) You *can* get a job in the middle of a depression, you just have to know how to sell your skill set and be personable. If any of you are unemployed at the moment and would like to stop, just think of a job interview as a great opportunity to practice your bedside manner! It worked for me :)

I wish each of you the best of luck, and I will certainly update this thread as SOON as I have a tete a tete with the good doctor. Which, if I had my 'druthers, would be approximately 5 minutes ago! :laugh: May God keep you always near to the light of His grace and love. Amen.

David Stratton
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Congrats on the acceptance and new job and thanks for starting this thread. I was afraid that I was going to have to start it myself. I even wrote myself a reminder note. I will try to add some valuable LLU area/rental info as well as book info as soon as I update my spreadsheets to reflect recent visits/discussions.

Current students, please post anything you wish you had known/helpful advice here.

2010 class thread:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=250981&highlight=loma
2011 class thread:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=355634&page=5&highlight=loma
2012 class thread:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=510996


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777
 
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Summary.
Areas that made my wife a little uncomfortable:
1) Colton
2) most of the apartments/rentals in Loma Linda proper

Areas that seemed nice/pretty/safe/etc:
1) Most of Redlands
2) Loma Linda SOUTH of Barton Road

LLU rental office: 909.558.4374

LLU Trading Post (rental classifieds): www.llu.edu/news/tp

For results of my research/visits regarding LLU area rentals, see the attached spreadsheet.

<><

777
 

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Current students, if you have the time/motivation, I (and probably others) would love to hear your take on this subject.

TIA

777

a previous compilation ( I will modify to include info posted in the 2012 thread when I get the time):
 

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Congrats on your acceptance. When did you interview if I might ask? I interviewed on Feb 3, 2009 so i was hoping to get a phone call tomorrow (Feb 20).
 
No, LLU doesn't record their lectures but most classes set up a system where soemone brings a recorder in and then puts the mp3 up on the internet. My class even video records some lectures. I'm not sure why the admin won't just do it for us, but they don't mind you setting up your own system as a class or individually.
 
Is the health coverage good for spouses? I remember reading somewhere that it was about $145/month to insure a spouse through Loma Linda's plan. Is this reasonable for health insurance, or would we be better off looking elsewhere?

Also, as far as the cost of living loans are concerned, do they operate like credit lines or do you receive a lump sum of money? If it is a lump sum, do you receive it monthly, annually, or some other time period?
 
Congratulations to all of you that have been or will be accepted to LLUSOM! I love it here, and can't imagine being happier any other place.

Financial Aid is disbursed just before each semester begins. This is intended to provide you with the tuition and living expenses you will need until the next semester begins.

LLU's health care plan for spouses is very good if you can afford it ($440 for 3 months). They cover everything including maternity care.

DoctaJay is a man with some great advice. I am towards the end of my first year and nearly all the info I gathered from him has been solid.
 
Lanvin said:
Financial Aid is disbursed just before each semester begins. This is intended to provide you with the tuition and living expenses you will need until the next semester begins.
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By "disbursed" do you mean I will literally be written a check for the full amount of tuition and living expenses? Or does the school get the tuition fees directly, and I get a check for the living expenses?
 
strongboy2005 said:
By "disbursed" do you mean I will literally be written a check for the full amount of tuition and living expenses? Or does the school get the tuition fees directly, and I get a check for the living expenses?
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The school gets all of the money (tuition costs and living expenses). Once they receive the money you can have them write you a check for the amount awarded for living expenses.
 
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strongboy2005 said:
By "disbursed" do you mean I will literally be written a check for the full amount of tuition and living expenses? Or does the school get the tuition fees directly, and I get a check for the living expenses?
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To add onto what Lanvin wrote:

Each quarter you'll receive X amount of financial aid. It goes first to student finance and you can choose to get the balance as a check or by direct deposit into your bank account. You can go online and request a direct deposit of any amount. Personally I just request however much I need every few months to be deposited in my account. That way if you can save some money through the year you'll have a little more in the summer.

Congrats all; first year is sweet, look forward to it! :-D.
 
coldweatherblue said:
To add onto what Lanvin wrote:

Each quarter you'll receive X amount of financial aid. It goes first to student finance and you can choose to get the balance as a check or by direct deposit into your bank account. You can go online and request a direct deposit of any amount. Personally I just request however much I need every few months to be deposited in my account. That way if you can save some money through the year you'll have a little more in the summer.

Congrats all; first year is sweet, look forward to it! :-D.
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Okay that's starting to make more sense now.

What if you choose not to receive any cost of living money? Does the school just not distribute the money to you, or does the school actually not receive whatever money you don't need?

Also, if you choose to have the school hold on to some of the money for you, is that money collecting interest?
 
What if you choose not to receive any cost of living money? Does the school just not distribute the money to you, or does the school actually not receive whatever money you don't need?

If you choose not to receive the money, then it gets sent back to the loan company (if they already sent it), or the loan company just keeps it, and that is basically less money that you have borrowed.

Also, if you choose to have the school hold on to some of the money for you, is that money collecting interest?

If you choose to have the school hold onto your money, it basically sits in their account/drawer/magic safe (whatever it is, its not a bank I don't think), and I don't think it gains interest. But you can have the school do direct deposit so that it goes to a savings/checking account that gains interest
 
I got accepted a few weeks ago, went apartment shopping today around the area. found some decent places in Grand Terrace and Redlands (on barton road 2 miles East of LLU). the catch: I will need a room mate to make it affordable (2bed 2bath). any body else know a good place/good room mate? also, I am new to the SDN so maybe there is a better place to ask.
 
er1c said:
I got accepted a few weeks ago, went apartment shopping today around the area. found some decent places in Grand Terrace and Redlands (on barton road 2 miles East of LLU). the catch: I will need a room mate to make it affordable (2bed 2bath). any body else know a good place/good room mate? also, I am new to the SDN so maybe there is a better place to ask.
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Loma Linda, Grand Terrace, and Redlands are all great places to live while going to school here. My wife and I are renting an apartment in the relatively quiet community of Grand Terrace and we can't really complain.

Two communities to AVOID (local real estate agent told me to avoid these areas due to crime/safety concerns):
1) Cooley Ranch area of Colton
2) Van Leuven west of Mtn. View.

The Loma Linda University Trading Post (google "llu trading post" to find it) is a great source to find roommates and apartments/houses for rent.

Congratulations and welcome!
 
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Hey to all of you accepted to Loma linda University and are new to the area I would like to invite you to the sabbath school that most medical/dental students and residents and attendings go...it's at Burden Hall....Advent Hope...they have great Vegan/Vegetarian potlucks...really great for students on tight budgets and they have great sermons especially geared to incorporating good principles in your career.....medical missions......also on friday nights there's a vespers that's open for everyone if you want to hang out and study the bible (free good food is included) at West Hall.....starts at 7 PM until around 9 PM......I think any student will enjoy it.....Well, congratulations and to those whose spouses are going to La Sierra University....Congrats.........it's a great school.........othewise I wouldn't have done my undergrad and masters there....
 
Hey guys,

So how far is too far to commute to LLU? My best friend is thinking of buying a house in Moreno Valley ( http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=moreno+valley&daddr=25040+Stewart+St,+Loma+Linda,+CA+92354+(Loma+Linda+University)&hl=en&geocode=%3BFayeBwIdqsUC-SGjFP9x44amlg&mra=ls&dirflg=h&sll=33.997458,-117.262573&sspn=0.150857,0.315857&ie=UTF8&ll=33.978101,-117.322998&spn=0.142635,0.315857&z=12 ) and it seems that it's about 20 miles south of LLU. He can offer me really sweet deal on rent since he can trust me to not wreck his investment. Basically he can offer me a 3 bed/2 bath house for $800-1000/month. Do you guys think it's worth it or should I just live close to campus? I don't know how much housing costs around LLU or how bad the commute is, so I'd appreciate any comments.
 
I was going to post this in http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=612011 but I figured this would hit more of the people who have gotten into LLU.

Or all those people on the left could be people who didn't match considering it was 24 people this year and only 10 of those people were able to scramble. I bet loma linda didn't tell you that when you were applying. Also I bet loma linda didn't tell you that they are on probation with LMCE and are at risk of loosing their accreditation based on their match rate. They didn't tell you that did they? Well you see what happened is that 19 people didn't match in the class of 2008 and so when LMCE came in to give us an accreditation in august they told loma linda that they would give them a 1 year accreditation and to turn around their match rate. Well obviously that didn't happen. Will loma linda loose their accreditation? Probably not. But this is all stuff that I wish I had known about when I was applying to schools.

I really regret coming to loma linda and here are a few things I wish I had known.

1. It is a lot more difficult to match into a competitive specialty coming from loma linda. Yes it is possible to get into whatever you want but you are going to have to be above the mean and apply more broadly than students who are coming from better-known schools. Just ask some fourth year students about their experiences on the interview trail (When they were routinely asked is LLU where is that? Is that a DO school?)

2. If you were at all annoyed by the forced worships you had to go to in undergrad (mostly talking to kids who went to Adventist undergrad) then seriously think twice about how much time religion classes and chapels will suck out of your life. Time is a precious commodity in med school and I for one would rather spend it studying or relaxing than in some religion class or chapel where I am getting preached at about stuff I have heard 1000x before.

3. One of the reasons I choose to come to LLU over a top research 25 school is because I thought, "I don't want to get too involved in research or academic medicine I want to be a clinical doctor and be involved with patients and LLU is supposed to have a good reputation for making good clinicians." I still want to focus on clinical medicine I didn't realize just how important research is in getting into a competitive residency. Even if you want to be primarily involved in clinical medicine, to get into something competitive the majority of people matching have done research. How does this relate to llu? Well it is a lot more difficult to find research at llu compared to other schools, since there are only a couple NIH funded departments. There is a program set up for the summer between 1st and 2nd year where you can do research, it just might not be the type of research you want to do, in the specialty you want to go into, and what research you get is based on class rank.

4. If it sounds like I'm bitter, well that’s because I am. That’s what med school will do to you and that’s what being in the Adventist education system my whole life has done to me. But that being said loma linda is a good school academically. If you work hard you will get a good education, can do good on STEP1, get research published, and get into a competitive residency. Basically it is just harder to do all this at loma linda compared with other schools.

This probably doesn’t apply to most of the people who are coming to loma linda. Most of the kids at llu want to be missionaries or do primary care, which is great if that’s what you want. But that’s not what I want to do and I didn't realize how coming to llu was going to make it that much harder for me to get into something competitive.
 
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Hello

I actually live in Moreno Valley and commute to Cal State University San Bernardino, which is just a few freeway exits after LLU. Traffic can get a little heavy during the morning (6-8am) and evening (4-6pm) commute. Without traffic it takes about 15 minutes to get from Moreno Valley to LLU on the freeway. With traffic, if you take "the canyon," it takes about 30 minutes and you never have to enter the freeway. Rent in the Moreno Valley/Loma Linda/San Bernardino area is somewhat expensive ~$750 single/$1000 2 bedroom. If you get the entire house for the 800-1000 and get some roomates, it would be worthwile since if you split the rent three ways each person would only need to pay around 300.

CyanideDN said:
Hey guys,

So how far is too far to commute to LLU? My best friend is thinking of buying a house in Moreno Valley ( http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=moreno+valley&daddr=25040+Stewart+St,+Loma+Linda,+CA+92354+(Loma+Linda+University)&hl=en&geocode=%3BFayeBwIdqsUC-SGjFP9x44amlg&mra=ls&dirflg=h&sll=33.997458,-117.262573&sspn=0.150857,0.315857&ie=UTF8&ll=33.978101,-117.322998&spn=0.142635,0.315857&z=12 ) and it seems that it's about 20 miles south of LLU. He can offer me really sweet deal on rent since he can trust me to not wreck his investment. Basically he can offer me a 3 bed/2 bath house for $800-1000/month. Do you guys think it's worth it or should I just live close to campus? I don't know how much housing costs around LLU or how bad the commute is, so I'd appreciate any comments.
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dr med said:
Hello

I actually live in Moreno Valley and commute to Cal State University San Bernardino, which is just a few freeway exits after LLU. Traffic can get a little heavy during the morning (6-8am) and evening (4-6pm) commute. Without traffic it takes about 15 minutes to get from Moreno Valley to LLU on the freeway. With traffic, if you take "the canyon," it takes about 30 minutes and you never have to enter the freeway. Rent in the Moreno Valley/Loma Linda/San Bernardino area is somewhat expensive ~$750 single/$1000 2 bedroom. If you get the entire house for the 800-1000 and get some roomates, it would be worthwile since if you split the rent three ways each person would only need to pay around 300.
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Thanks. Would it be advisable to live close to campus for med school though? Cost isn't a huge issue if living closer would save me some time in getting to classes and such. Can a current med student offer some insight?
 
CyanideDN said:
Thanks. Would it be advisable to live close to campus for med school though? Cost isn't a huge issue if living closer would save me some time in getting to classes and such. Can a current med student offer some insight?
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I live about 5 minutes from the school which has been great. For me personally I wouldn't want to live any farther away but that is mostly due to the fact that I probably go back and forth between home and school around 2x a day on average (for lunch, let out the dog, dinnner, etc.) If you don't care about coming to school in the morning for class and then staying all day it probably wouldn't be a problem living farther away. There are some days when you are going to have to stay at school until five, you may have a few hour break in the after noon, so I often run home to eat lunch and study at home. If you don't mind packing a lunch or eating in one of the cafe's (which can get expensive) then you'll probably be alright. Also there are going to be times when you have to come back in the evening (review sessions, studying for anatomy lab, etc) but this isn't really that often.
 
I was wait-listed for my #1 choice, a top 25 research school in CA, and I ended up passing when they asked me if I was still interested when summer came around. While I am still only MS1, I am very happy with the overall atmosphere of Loma Linda. My classmates are awesome, generous, and helpful. When I hear how cutthroat the education is elsewhere, I can only thank God that I am here. However, there are upsides and downsides to LLU, just like anywhere/thing else in life.

I would agree that the closer to campus the better. Some of my classmates live 30 minutes away and I don't know how they do it. The less time I spend driving, the more time I have to relax.
 
VirgilCaine said:
I was going to post this in http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=612011 but I figured this would hit more of the people who have gotten into LLU.

Or all those people on the left could be people who didn't match considering it was 24 people this year and only 10 of those people were able to scramble. I bet loma linda didn't tell you that when you were applying. Also I bet loma linda didn't tell you that they are on probation with LMCE and are at risk of loosing their accreditation based on their match rate. They didn't tell you that did they? Well you see what happened is that 19 people didn't match in the class of 2008 and so when LMCE came in to give us an accreditation in august they told loma linda that they would give them a 1 year accreditation and to turn around their match rate. Well obviously that didn't happen. Will loma linda loose their accreditation? Probably not. But this is all stuff that I wish I had known about when I was applying to schools.

I really regret coming to loma linda and here are a few things I wish I had known.

1. It is a lot more difficult to match into a competitive specialty coming from loma linda. Yes it is possible to get into whatever you want but you are going to have to be above the mean and apply more broadly than students who are coming from better-known schools. Just ask some fourth year students about their experiences on the interview trail (When they were routinely asked is LLU where is that? Is that a DO school?)

2. If you were at all annoyed by the forced worships you had to go to in undergrad (mostly talking to kids who went to Adventist undergrad) then seriously think twice about how much time religion classes and chapels will suck out of your life. Time is a precious commodity in med school and I for one would rather spend it studying or relaxing than in some religion class or chapel where I am getting preached at about stuff I have heard 1000x before.

3. One of the reasons I choose to come to LLU over a top research 25 school is because I thought, "I don't want to get too involved in research or academic medicine I want to be a clinical doctor and be involved with patients and LLU is supposed to have a good reputation for making good clinicians." I still want to focus on clinical medicine I didn't realize just how important research is in getting into a competitive residency. Even if you want to be primarily involved in clinical medicine, to get into something competitive the majority of people matching have done research. How does this relate to llu? Well it is a lot more difficult to find research at llu compared to other schools, since there are only a couple NIH funded departments. There is a program set up for the summer between 1st and 2nd year where you can do research, it just might not be the type of research you want to do, in the specialty you want to go into, and what research you get is based on class rank.

4. If it sounds like I'm bitter, well that’s because I am. That’s what med school will do to you and that’s what being in the Adventist education system my whole life has done to me. But that being said loma linda is a good school academically. If you work hard you will get a good education, can do good on STEP1, get research published, and get into a competitive residency. Basically it is just harder to do all this at loma linda compared with other schools.

This probably doesn’t apply to most of the people who are coming to loma linda. Most of the kids at llu want to be missionaries or do primary care, which is great if that’s what you want. But that’s not what I want to do and I didn't realize how coming to llu was going to make it that much harder for me to get into something competitive.
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I like LLU, but I'm by no means a LLU fanboy. However, there are some things here that I hope I can make a little bit clearer. I'm not sure what year VirgilCaine is, but I'm a 2nd year about to take Step 1 in 1 month and 25 days (lol yeah I have a countdown).

Yes it is true that around 25 people in the class of 2009 did not match and they had to scramble. Of those 24 people 9-10 of them didn't scramble into anything and therefore have no job for next year. Now if you read that at face value, like I'm sure many of you did in VirgilCaine's post you probably got some palpitations. Did you make a huge mistake in applying to LLU? Not at all, here are some more details:

*I have talked to numerous 3rd and 4th year medical students, as alot of other LLU students have because we all heard about the rough match, and the general consensus was that the reason why many of those 24 people didn't match was because they just didn't use their common sense in the application process. Many of these people were not at the bottom of the class. One of the students I believe was an AOA student, some had Step 1 scores in the 240s, etc. But what you had with many of these students is that they didn't:
1) apply to enough programs. Some only ranked like 6 programs in crazy competitive fields like neurosurgery or orthopedic surgery (of which it is advised that you rank 15+ schools)​
2) They didn't put enough effort into matching into their prelim year but they matched into their categorical residency. You see, some residencies like Ophthalmology or Anesthesiology require that you do a prelim year in surgery or medicine before you start their residency. So some students put in all the hard work to interview and match into the Ophthalmology residency, but they slacked off and didn't put in the work to match into the prelim part that has to come first​
3) They were too cocky with their numbers and didn't seek council as to which residencies they could actually apply to and get into. Some felt that their 230 Step 1 score made them a shoe in for a neurosurgery residency, which is truly laughable.​
4) Some were actually just did not have the scores to get into a residency other than primary care but they applied only to non-primary care specialties. So as you can see, there are a variety of reasons why those 24 didn't match this year (and the same thing goes for last year).​

And also remember guys that the match is just truly getting harder and harder every year: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=613083 . Medical schools are increasing their class size but the residency spots are not increasing, so you can see the problem. Also less and less medical students want to go into primary care so its not that there were not spots for these students, it that they refused to scramble into the numerous free spots in Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Pediatrics, etc.
​

*Yes it is true that the LCME accredited LLU for 1 additional year upon review of how they implemented the changes that the LCME suggested. But VirgilCaine made it seem like it was only because of the # of people that didn't match. That was a small part of it. The LCME really mostly had a problem with how much time LLU kept their students in lecture (and I do too). They demanded/suggested that LLU cut out a significant amount of lecture time and replace that with PBL or self-study time. I can say with confidence that LLU is doing that (cause our class is the guinea pig for some of the PBL meetings). They couldn't do it much for this years freshman class, but your class will certainly have much less lecture time. So on that front, LLU is meeting the LCME demands. Yes, the LCME did have a problem with the number of people that didn't match, but as you can see from my previous paragraph, it isn't the school's fault, but the LCME doesn't care. So I think that LLU is going to have to do is force each and every student to meet with the Academic Deans about their interviews and the match to make sure that each student is 1) applying to residencies that they are actually competitive for 2) applies to enough programs to actually make their chances of matching feasible 3) uses their bloody common sense. Also don't let anyone scare you about losing accreditation. The LCME tried to pull Georgetown or GWs accreditation a couple years back for some reason or the other, and you know why it didn't work, because the school sued the LCME. And the LCME has never won a case against a school that sued them over accreditation. So in reality, very little schools ever lose their accreditation and I can be pretty certain that LLU won't be losing theirs anytime in the near future.​

*Yes it is true that LLU students primarily go into primary care specialties. But this is not because they have to...its because they want to. But that does not mean that you are damned to be a primary care doctor. You are what you make yourself. There are lots of opportunities to do research on campus. I didn't do research after my freshman year (instead I went on a mission trip) but I decided during my 2nd year that I wanted to get some research experience, so all it took was a call to the LLU surgery research dept. and I was on a project. Honestly guys, your career is what you make it, and all the opportunities you need are here if you put in the work...and its really not that much work​

*Yes it is true that many East Coast schools have never year of Loma Linda. that is not true when it comes to the West Coast, which is good because the majority of students at LLU are from Cali. I am not, but it doesn't matter because you make up for it with good board scores, good evaluations, and away rotations at the institutions you want to match at. If you applied to LLU, you already know that they aren't even ranked in USNEWS because they refuse to send in a report. The dean of admissions said that you can't really describe LLU in a ranking like that, and I agree. So you already you know that you weren't matriculating at an official top 10 medical school, but I truly believe you get a better education there, medically and spiritually. Like I said, I'm not a fan boy, and I will honestly tell you all the gripes I have with the school, but the gripes are seriously overshadowed by the good parts​

*I have been in the Adventist education system since kindergarten, and at times I wished I could go into the real world, but here I still am, lol. I say all that to say that you can go to any medical school in the US, and randomly pick any medical student, and chances are they will be somewhat jaded and cynical of their school and the profession overall. Its just what happens under the constant stress. But remember, this is not just limited to LLU; and I still honestly believe that you will have less of that cynicism here than at other schools just because of the great environment.​

I really should get back to studying my 68 pharm cards that I have not learned so I'll have to end my response but if you guys have any more questions please PM me or post in here.
 
I completely agree with DoctaJay.
 
As a 4th year medical student who went through the match this year I would like to give you some insight on why seniors were unsuccessful this year. It is true that 24 seniors went unmatched for pgy 1 positions and the list gets larger when you take into account the seniors that matched pgy 1 positions (prelim year) but did not match pgy 2 positions (advanced) such as rads/gas/derm/etc. This number is very alarming because it means that almost 15% of the senior class did not match. The following is a brief list of observations (in no particular order) for the high unmatch rate according to a sampling of 4th years and faculty members.

1. Not going to enough interviews/ranking enough programs - This without a doubt a sure fire way not to match regardless of the choice of specialty.

2. Poor career counseling regarding on the steps to land a residency - The Dean's Office although very supportive and helpful does a poor job on career counseling, especially in the preclinical years. They do not assign faculty mentors to students early on, meet with each student to discuss career choices during medical school, or explain how to make yourself a desirable residency candidate until late in 3rd year or early 4th year. This leads to students being unprepared for the match, not knowing how they stack up against the competition, and consequently developing unrealistic expectations.

3. Weak emphasis on research - Let's face it, if you decided on coming to LLU, you are not choosing it based on the NIH dollars. But just because LLU is not a research powerhouse it does not mean you should neglect research in medical school, especially for the competitive specialties that are research driven and the residencies at research driven academic centers. Unfortunately, the faculty that you encounter during the preclinical years does not place a premium on research. Some students are advised to relax, vacation, and enjoy their last summer between 1st and 2nd year instead of doing research. While it is true that research is not a prerequisite for some residencies, it is for the competitive ones, and looks better on a CV for residency than Habitat for Humanity.

4. Not being a well know med school outside the SDA network and CA - Several seniors had to explain to interviewers that LLU was not a DO school (no offense to osteopaths) and not located in South America or Mexico. While LLU does offer a solid clinical training, the fact remains that some residency programs would rather take a student from a "brand name" school than LLU with all things relatively equal. This is because the "brand name" school has "big wigs" that will vouch for a student, is nationally recognized, and looks better on their match list. This info was given to me discretely by members of residency committees and residents that participate in the ranking process.

5. Weak emphasis on board preparation - While it is difficult to comment on the caliber of didactics when you only attend one med school, you can make an observation on how it correlates to board prep. I must admit that some professors at LLU do a poor job on making clinical correlations in their lectures and do not write board type questions. In addition, LLU does not emphasize the importance of doing well on boards in order to get through the interview screening cutoffs. Many of my classmates did not understand that a poor board score could possibly knock them out of the running for a desired specialty and did not know the average score for a successful matcher. To further compound this problem is the lack of prep time LLU offers between 2nd and 3rd year. I believe it is around 4 weeks total, which does not offer a lot of time to adequately prep and unwind before starting clinicals for most students. I personally believe decreasing the 6 weeks of clinicals first year and transferring it to board prep time would provide better results.

6. Silver spoon/sheltered education phenomenon - One of the faculty members cited the relatively natural transition for most SDA's from SDA academy to SDA college to LLU could but them at a disadvantage to the competition that exists in the outside world. His hypothesis is that since the SDA students did not have to really compete during premed education to the extent that non SDAs did (i.e. apply to double digit colleges and medical schools) they are not as comfortable on the interview circuit as outside students. In addition, because of the comfort level with the SDA educational system and the incestuous nature of the LLU medical center these students sometimes falsely assume a residency spot would be available at LLU and place all their eggs in one basket. This consequently leads back to problem #1 listed above.

BTW even if you do everything right i.e. good board scores, grades, research, and LoR's, it does not gaurantee that you will match. There were a number of unmatched seniors with marks competitive for their desired specialty including a handful that had 240s/250s/260s, AOA, research, and good evaluations. But this phenomenon happens at many medical schools and will continue to occur every year.

As a disclaimer I would like to state that the observations above in no way reflect my opinion regarding the standard of education LLU provides because I believe it does produce excellent physicians. It should just serve as a warning to future students on the pitfalls of applying for residency.

Congrats to all of those who made it to medical school. I wish you good luck in your future endeavors and believe you will be successful if you are diligent, plan for the future, and seek counsel early and often. And do not get discouraged if everything does not work out the first time around. Medicine is a lifetime of learning and none of us all born doctors. An extra year of training is not a set back but rather another building block in becoming a great physician.
 
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VirgilCaine said:
Also I bet loma linda didn't tell you that they are on probation with LMCE and are at risk of loosing their accreditation based on their match rate. They didn't tell you that did they? Well you see what happened is that 19 people didn't match in the class of 2008 and so when LMCE came in to give us an accreditation in august they told loma linda that they would give them a 1 year accreditation and to turn around their match rate. Well obviously that didn't happen. Will loma linda loose their accreditation? Probably not. But this is all stuff that I wish I had known about when I was applying to schools.
Click to expand...

Actually, LLU is not on probation. If they were on probation, they'd be required to notify newly accepted students and those seeking enrollment, and I certainly was not notified. However, from what you and DoctaJay write (and from looking at this website), it's clear that they did not receive full 8 year accreditation, and will have a limited, focused survey conducted in the upcoming year. (On a side note, GW is on probation, as indicated on the linked site.) This is still troubling, and I'm glad it's been brought to my attention. I'm not sure how troubled I should be, though. Is this a common thing to happen? Is there anywhere else I could gather more information about this? I'm considering contacting an LLUSOM administrator (not sure which one?) and/or the LCME (who probably wouldn't give me any specific info) to to get more specifics and get a feel for the progress and what the future has in store, but I'm not sure if this would be appropriate. What is the recourse if your school loses accreditation a year or two after enrollment? I imagine you'd just be out a lot of money. Even if the chances of LLU losing accreditation are slim, the prospect is still a bit worrisome.
 
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Someone above mentioned the high number of hours of classtime at LLU. Can any current students tell me how many hours of class/labs they have each week? Also, does anyone know if this number is for sure decreasing for next year's class?
 
I have compiled some lender info for anyone who cares. I gathered info off the respective websites. Then I called each lender and asked questions. I called back at a later date and asked a different rep the same questions. I have arranged the lenders according to my (subjective) assessment of their customer service.
 

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if my math is correct/if LLUSOM tuition increases ~2k per year as it did last year/if you take out only loans to cover tuition, books, fees (no living expense)/if you take out the max subsidized Stafford and the rest in unsubsidized Stafford loans then:

You will need to borrow around 191K
you will accumulate 27K in interest while in school
you will have 218K in debt at repayment.
you will accumulate another 83k in interest while paying off the loan over ten years
the cost of your education (tuition, books, fees) will be 302K
your monthly payment after school will be 2.5K

Paying the interest on the unsub loans while in school will save you ~10K over the long run.

A rate of 6.55% (vs 6.8%) will save you ~5K over the long run

no origination fees and no default fees would save you ~3.8K over the long run.

:eek:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

777
 
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According to the LCME, Yale (of all places), UMDNJ, and Michigan State are also being watched/scrutinized in addition to LLU! George Washington is the only one that is actually on probation, and it is a pretty prestigious school!

Since many of the facilities on LLU's campus are relatively antiquated and are artifacts of bygone eras that facilliated smaller class sizes than they are now accepting, the growing number of admitted students was a concern for the LCME. The ratio of student body size to resources and facilities available is a major, major issue in LCME accreditation (see http://www.lcme.org/classsizeguidelines.htm); and it is my understanding that it was the issue with LLU. This problem should be mostly resolved after the Centennial Complex is finished. LLU is just being given a "focused" survey again this year to maticulously ensure they are implementing all of the plans they submitted to the LCME to accommodate their growing number of admissions and satisfy their requirement for the "student/resources available" balance.

The student/resources ratio may be a factor in the fail rate of the current class (as they are currently still using the strained and cramped facilities), but there are probably other more nominal factors that account for this phenomenon, as noted above by actual LLU students.

Aside from whatever bureaucratic issues that have arisen or will arise though, I wouldn't worry about LLU's accreditation if you keep it in your prayers and trust God; I know that is what I am going to do :)
 
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taborkid said:
According to the LCME, Yale (of all places), UMDNJ, and Michigan State are also being watched/scrutinized in addition to LLU! George Washington is the only one that is actually on probation, and it is a pretty prestigious school!

Since many of the facilities on LLU's campus are relatively antiquated and are artifacts of bygone eras that facilliated smaller class sizes than they are now accepting, the growing number of admitted students was a concern for the LCME. The ratio of student body size to resources and facilities available is a major, major issue in LCME accreditation (see http://www.lcme.org/classsizeguidelines.htm); and it is my understanding that it was the issue with LLU. This problem should be mostly resolved after the Centennial Complex is finished. LLU is just being given a "focused" survey again this year to maticulously ensure they are implementing all of the plans they submitted to the LCME to accommodate their growing number of admissions and satisfy their requirement for the "student/resources available" balance.

The student/resources ratio may be a factor in the fail rate of the current class (as they are currently still using the strained and cramped facilities), but there are probably other more nominal factors that account for this phenomenon, as noted above by actual LLU students.

Aside from whatever beuracratic issues that have arisen or will arise though, I wouldn't worry about LLU's accreditation if you keep it in your prayers and trust God; I know that is what I am going to do :)
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for the info. Just out of curiosity, where'd you get the info about LCME's specific issues with LLU?
 
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How much do I love that you're keeping up with the incoming freshman Jayss! You are the best. Next year's, ahem, starting in July's going to be fun. I've been meaning to check in on and start getting to know next year's freshmen, but alas I have been quite the slacker.

As a side note, can you believe how we KILLED PathoPhys??! Craziness.

If there's any help this, soon-to-be, junior med student can be to you freshman, just drop me note. Oh and if y'all could say a prayer for us we've got the NBME Path and BioChem tests at the beginning of the week, the comprehensive NBME Basic Science exam at the end of the week and then Step 1! All the best 2013 and see you in August.

-Lauren, they call me "Bob"
 
Ivorytink said:
How much do I love that you're keeping up with the incoming freshman Jayss! You are the best. Next year's, ahem, starting in July's going to be fun. I've been meaning to check in on and start getting to know next year's freshmen, but alas I have been quite the slacker.

As a side note, can you believe how we KILLED PathoPhys??! Craziness.

If there's any help this, soon-to-be, junior med student can be to you freshman, just drop me note. Oh and if y'all could say a prayer for us we've got the NBME Path and BioChem tests at the beginning of the week, the comprehensive NBME Basic Science exam at the end of the week and then Step 1! All the best 2013 and see you in August.

-Lauren, they call me "Bob"
Click to expand...
You were my tour guide on interview day Bob. One of my interviewers got quite confused when I tried to describe you to him (Lauren/Bob). Anyway, do you have access to the info I asked about two posts up? Semester schedule for next year perhaps? A freshmen med student course schedule would really really rock.

777
 
XT777 said:
Anyway, do you have access to the info I asked about two posts up? Semester schedule for next year perhaps? A freshmen med student course schedule would really really rock.
Click to expand...

Maybe the school bulletin archives for the School of Medicine might give you a bit more info: http://www.llu.edu/llu/academics/catalog.html

I clicked on the most recent SOM bulletin (2003-2005) and there's quite a detailed calendar for those years starting on pg.13. You can also find some curriculum information, especially starting on pg. 30 and up.

It might not be a specific and updated freshman course schedule per say, but I hope it helps!

MS Is and current students input please? :)
 
Does anyone know when the first day of orientation is?
 
How fun and lucky of me to have gotten to spend time with you on the tour!

As far as the schedule goes, there's a rough, general outline of things that you've either gotten as part of your packet of info and such or could be in the handbook/on the SOM website. BUT, that being said...I don't think any of us could give you a course schedule with any accuracy yet. They're probably still working on your lecture schedule and tweaking how they're teaching things.

What I can say is that after orientation, before lectures really start, you'll have 2 weeks of "wards" - on rotation, likely hanging with one of us juniors or perhaps a senior if you're lucky. Then, historically - ie. the last three years - the first year lectures begin with everything "normal." So, you'll have Gross Anatomy/Embryology, (say hi to Drs. Escobar, Nava and Wright for us) Cell Structure and Function - otherwise known as Histo (with some cell bio thrown in for good measure), Physical Diagnosis (everything about taking a history and doing a thorough physical), Evidence Based Medicine (otherwise known as EBM - a lil biostats, a lil research methods, etc.), and then Biochemistry, Physiology and Neuroscience. After EBM ends, which I think is in the Fall, you'll get Understanding Your Patient (UYP). At the very end of the year, you'll have something like 6 intro to Pathology lectures to help you have a clue what you're doing when you get to second year's "abnormal" everything.

After your Spring finals are done, plus your NBME subject exams or "mock boards" too, you'll get to do 2 x 2 week rotations. Those you'll have actually have some input in choosing and this time you'll be expected to take a few histories and do a few directed physicals and such. All in all, good times. The ward experience is called "Orientation to Medicine" or some such thing and it has 2-3 small group meetings over the 6 weeks and a couple of short essays to write, but it's a class that if you show up and do the work you'll be fine. Does that help any?

With the exception of EBM and UYP, most of your classes go all year. Neuro starts in the Winter typically, but that's the only other wierd one. You'll have labs for Phys, Histo, Anatomy, EBM small group once a week, PDX, and Neuro case studies. Lectures are in the morning 8-12 with labs in the afternoon on a rotation depending on when your small group/lab group is scheduled.

FREE tutoring by upper classmen is provided by the Deans office and both upperclassman-freshman and physician-student mentorship is also available. If any more questions pop feel free to ask and I hope this helped.

Welcome LLU SOM 2013!!!! See you in August!:)
 
Ivorytink said:
How fun and lucky of me to have gotten to spend time with you on the tour!

As far as the schedule goes, there's a rough, general outline of things that you've either gotten as part of your packet of info and such or could be in the handbook/on the SOM website. BUT, that being said...I don't think any of us could give you a course schedule with any accuracy yet. They're probably still working on your lecture schedule and tweaking how they're teaching things.

What I can say is that after orientation, before lectures really start, you'll have 2 weeks of "wards" - on rotation, likely hanging with one of us juniors or perhaps a senior if you're lucky. Then, historically - ie. the last three years - the first year lectures begin with everything "normal." So, you'll have Gross Anatomy/Embryology, (say hi to Drs. Escobar, Nava and Wright for us) Cell Structure and Function - otherwise known as Histo (with some cell bio thrown in for good measure), Physical Diagnosis (everything about taking a history and doing a thorough physical), Evidence Based Medicine (otherwise known as EBM - a lil biostats, a lil research methods, etc.), and then Biochemistry, Physiology and Neuroscience. After EBM ends, which I think is in the Fall, you'll get Understanding Your Patient (UYP). At the very end of the year, you'll have something like 6 intro to Pathology lectures to help you have a clue what you're doing when you get to second year's "abnormal" everything.

After your Spring finals are done, plus your NBME subject exams or "mock boards" too, you'll get to do 2 x 2 week rotations. Those you'll have actually have some input in choosing and this time you'll be expected to take a few histories and do a few directed physicals and such. All in all, good times. The ward experience is called "Orientation to Medicine" or some such thing and it has 2-3 small group meetings over the 6 weeks and a couple of short essays to write, but it's a class that if you show up and do the work you'll be fine. Does that help any?

With the exception of EBM and UYP, most of your classes go all year. Neuro starts in the Winter typically, but that's the only other wierd one. You'll have labs for Phys, Histo, Anatomy, EBM small group once a week, PDX, and Neuro case studies. Lectures are in the morning 8-12 with labs in the afternoon on a rotation depending on when your small group/lab group is scheduled.

FREE tutoring by upper classmen is provided by the Deans office and both upperclassman-freshman and physician-student mentorship is also available. If any more questions pop feel free to ask and I hope this helped.

Welcome LLU SOM 2013!!!! See you in August!:)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Bob! I was lucky to have you as a tour guide. You hooked me up with some helpful info! Just like you did above. Thanks for that. Good luck on step 1!

777
 
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that esthat estimate overshoots big time. you will need about $700 for medical supplies from Welch Allyn and probably $500 for books tops. you can use the rest of the money for living expenses. make sure you talk to a upper classmen before you buy anybooks. i didnt do this and i wasted alot of money on books that i barely opened.
 
DoctaJay said:
that esthat estimate overshoots big time. you will need about $700 for medical supplies from Welch Allyn and probably $500 for books tops. you can use the rest of the money for living expenses. make sure you talk to a upper classmen before you buy anybooks. i didnt do this and i wasted alot of money on books that i barely opened.
Click to expand...

will it be around $1200 per year for books and supplies or would you consider this to be a onetime cost? 3,200 each year for four years is a significant number of dollars.

only 12 days until step 1. Good luck Doctajay!
 
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