List of AOA programs that went unfilled?

[NghtSky04]

I remember the day after the match, there was a big list that showed programs that weren't filled. Does anyone have access to that list right now? The only thing I can find is a list showing programs that are unfilled now (which obviously will be different from that match day).

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[explorertx]

If they re-post the 2017 match results, you'll be able to tell which one did not filled. For some reason the AOA removed the match results from their 2017 AOA Match Results


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[hallowmann]

I think I saved the list somewhere. If I find it I'll post it. It's weird that they took it off. In the past that list has stayed up for most of the year. This year they changed a lot of the ways they organized this stuff though.

 

[NghtSky04]

I think I saved the list somewhere. If I find it I'll post it. It's weird that they took it off. In the past that list has stayed up for most of the year. This year they changed a lot of the ways they organized this stuff though.

That would be awesome if you could do that!

 

[hallowmann]

That would be awesome if you could do that!

Here you go. Not the best format, but its all I got.

 

[NghtSky04]

Thanks a ton man! Been looking for this forever.

 

[738177]

Noob question from an outsider. What exactly could be the reason why these went unfilled?
Lack of quality applicants or the programs aren't as "good" as the others? Or is it a different reason altogether.

 

[Moose A Moose]

Here you go. Not the best format, but its all I got.

I'm also curious: thoughts on why some of these went unfilled, and regarding the handful of competitive specialties and surgery residencies on this list: do you think they were slammed with scramblers?

Thoughts on the process overall, Hallowmann?

 

[Moose A Moose]

Double post.

 

[explorertx]

Most of those positions filled right after the acgme match. Some programs save some spots that they know can be filled with "better" candidates who failed to match in the MD match.


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[hallowmann]

Noob question from an outsider. What exactly could be the reason why these went unfilled?
Lack of quality applicants or the programs aren't as "good" as the others? Or is it a different reason altogether.

Lots of reasons. Some could be inherent to the program (i.e. problems with it), it could just be a bad location (pretty much main reason people rank residencies), it could be that this year they didn't have as many applicants as they are used to, or it could be that the programs are new and applicants are hesitant to rank them or rank them highly.

One thing you have to remember about this is that in the AOA match there are almost equal number of positions as applicants, and many applicants only rank 1 or a couple of their top AOA choices, because they also applied ACGME.

I will also say though that just because a program is unfilled this year, doesn't mean its always unfilled. Some are like that, but I know numerous programs that were unfilled last year that filled in the match. Its hard to predict because their strategies of recruitment may have changed and its hard to know what a specific class will be going for from year to year.

I'm also curious: thoughts on why some of these went unfilled, and regarding the handful of competitive specialties and surgery residencies on this list: do you think they were slammed with scramblers?

Thoughts on the process overall, Hallowmann?

They definitely were slammed by scramblers. Most likely filled like that. Some programs even hold out for post-ACGME match DOs, but from what I heard, this is rare.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Here you go. Not the best format, but its all I got.

Is this list complete? I heard rumor that Desert Regional in CA only matched 1 out of 4 neurology spots.

 

[NghtSky04]

Most of those positions filled right after the acgme match. Some programs save some spots that they know can be filled with "better" candidates who failed to match in the MD match.


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Doesn't that only apply to dually accredited programs? A lot of these programs on the list are still going through pre-accreditation or initial accreditation for ACGME.

 

[hallowmann]

Is this list complete? I heard rumor that Desert Regional in CA only matched 1 out of 4 neurology spots.

This is what I saved the next night after the match. I guess it's possible some places came off the list in that time, but from what I remember, they were really slow in updating the list. I just wish I saved the one from the AOA website, which was definitely complete but I didn't and they took out down.

 

[explorertx]

Doesn't that only apply to dually accredited programs? A lot of these programs on the list are still going through pre-accreditation or initial accreditation for ACGME.

Of top of my head I can mention Palmetto IM program in South Florida, they usually match all their spots but this year the only match 10/18 and the spots stay open until the end of SOAP and filled right away.


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[explorertx]

The site is up again. The natmatch list is the same as the first day, it has not change. The AOA post match website was updated and reflex the programs that are still open.


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[explorertx]

If there were 824 applicants who did not match into the AOA match and 657 who did not match into the MD match (total of 1481 DOs who failed to match) and there were 895 unfilled positions post AOA match. How come there are still 20 IM spots, 55 FM spots, 88 traditional spots, and 4 NMS/OMT spots open? Did some of those students decided to postponed graduation or the programs rather not fill the spots?


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[GUH]

If there were 824 applicants who did not match into the AOA match and 657 who did not match into the MD match (total of 1481 DOs who failed to match) and there were 895 unfilled positions post AOA match. How come there are still 20 IM spots, 55 FM spots, 88 traditional spots, and 4 NMS/OMT spots open? Did some of those students decided to postponed graduation or the programs rather not fill the spots?

A lot of individuals didn't match both AOA and ACGME, so it's not like 1481 separate individuals didn't match.
Some of those programs are probably still working to take DOs in through the scramble.
My own program had one or more slots open on the list but I think that was intentional.

 

[hallowmann]

Doesn't that only apply to dually accredited programs? A lot of these programs on the list are still going through pre-accreditation or initial accreditation for ACGME.

They're talking about DOs that only participate in the MD match and then fail to match and have to scramble into an AOA program.

If there were 824 applicants who did not match into the AOA match and 657 who did not match into the MD match (total of 1481 DOs who failed to match) and there were 895 unfilled positions post AOA match. How come there are still 20 IM spots, 55 FM spots, 88 traditional spots, and 4 NMS/OMT spots open? Did some of those students decided to postponed graduation or the programs rather not fill the spots?


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You have to remember that there are many people that fail to match in both matches. You're counting them twice. We're almost at parity right now with unfilled AOA spots and scrambling DOs.

Also, keep in mind that just because a program has spots doesn't necessarily mean they'll fill them with absolutely anyone.

 

[explorertx]

They're talking about DOs that only participate in the MD match and then fail to match and have to scramble into an AOA program.



You have to remember that there are many people that fail to match in both matches. You're counting them twice. We're almost at parity right now with unfilled AOA spots and scrambling DOs.

Also, keep in mind that just because a program has spots doesn't necessarily mean they'll fill them with absolutely anyone.

824 were students who failed to match into a PGY-1 position in the AOA match and did not participate in the MD match as per the stats in the NMRP website, 2017 Summary by Program Type.
The 657 were the ones who did not match in the MD match and unless I am mistaken they did not or could not participate in the AOA match, so they are not being counted twice. Very few of those that did not match found a spot during SOAP as there were only 400+ spots that went unfilled and close to 8k applicants who failed to match into a PGY-1 position in the MD match (US students, DO students, IMG, AMG, and re-applicants from previous yrs.), http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Advance-Data-Tables-2017.pdf.
I agree that they may not fill their programs with absolutely anyone and that leaves a good number of graduates who did not find a spot ~10%-13% of all DOs participating this year (6727 as per the AOA Match stats).



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[hallowmann]

824 were students who failed to match into a PGY-1 position in the AOA match and did not participate in the MD match as per the stats in the NMRP website, 2017 Summary by Program Type.
The 657 were the ones who did not match in the MD match and unless I am mistaken they did not or could not participate in the AOA match, so they are not being counted twice. Very few of those that did not match found a spot during SOAP as there were only 400+ spots that went unfilled and close to 8k applicants who failed to match into a PGY-1 position in the MD match (US students, DO students, IMG, AMG, and re-applicants from previous yrs.), http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Advance-Data-Tables-2017.pdf.
I agree that they may not fill their programs with absolutely anyone and that leaves a good number of graduates who did not find a spot ~10%-13% of all DOs participating this year (6727 as per the AOA Match stats).

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You are mistaken.

The NMS (i.e. AOA) match does not make any mention of whether or not those individuals participated in the NRMP match. All it states is that 824 individuals failed to match in the NMS match.

As I mentioned above those individuals either (1) only ranked their top AOA program because their next ranked programs are ACGME, (2) applied to a competitive AOA field and a non-competitive ACGME one so they are using the NRMP as a backup match, (3) failed to match AOA, but also applied ACGME and are waiting for the NRMP match, or (4) just applied AOA, failed to match and likely scrambled post-NMS match.

Some of those individuals that are participating in both matches will have failed to match AOA and then failed to match ACGME. By you counting every DO that failed to match in the NMS match and adding that number to every DO that failed to match in the NRMP match, you're counting those people twice. In addition, you're counting people that failed to match AOA, but subsequently matched ACGME, in turn further inflating the number that you claim need to scramble.

You are able to participate in both matches as a DO. The AOA match occurs earlier, so as a matter of strategy, many people will apply to both types of programs, and use the NRMP match as a backup. They can do this by applying to a competitive field in the NMS match or by only ranking (similar to suicide matching) their top choice in the NMS match, knowing that the rest of their programs are in the NRMP match.

As far as the SOAP, historically 100-200 DOs manage to find spots in it each year, so that still usually leaves 500+ DOs that scramble at the end. Most are able to find spots, which is why DOs have a national GME placement rate of >99.5%.

 

[explorertx]

You are mistaken.

The NMS (i.e. AOA) match does not make any mention of whether or not those individuals participated in the NRMP match. All it states is that 824 individuals failed to match in the NMS match.

As I mentioned above those individuals either (1) only ranked their top AOA program because their next ranked programs are ACGME, (2) applied to a competitive AOA field and a non-competitive ACGME one so they are using the NRMP as a backup match, (3) failed to match AOA, but also applied ACGME and are waiting for the NRMP match, or (4) just applied AOA, failed to match and likely scrambled post-NMS match.

Some of those individuals that are participating in both matches will have failed to match AOA and then failed to match ACGME. By you counting every DO that failed to match in the NMS match and adding that number to every DO that failed to match in the NRMP match, you're counting those people twice. In addition, you're counting people that failed to match AOA, but subsequently matched ACGME, in turn further inflating the number that you claim need to scramble.

You are able to participate in both matches as a DO. The AOA match occurs earlier, so as a matter of strategy, many people will apply to both types of programs, and use the NRMP match as a backup. They can do this by applying to a competitive field in the NMS match or by only ranking (similar to suicide matching) their top choice in the NMS match, knowing that the rest of their programs are in the NRMP match.

As far as the SOAP, historically 100-200 DOs manage to find spots in it each year, so that still usually leaves 500+ DOs that scramble at the end. Most are able to find spots, which is why DOs have a national GME placement rate of >99.5%.

Thank you for the detail explanation and correction



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[Lostfoundinthematch]

Hello,
I have 480 level 1 comlex score
Passed level PE on second attempt
Failed level 2 CE and scheduled to take it again with 6 days study time ...
Can I scramble into a position with failed CE and not a score until earliest March ?
No failed classes as medical student just personal stuff at end of 3rd year affected my life?