Let's Quit

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Work for large hospital system. Pay is at lower end of non-denver/nyc/cali EM market at ~$200/hr. They just announced what amounts to a paycut after inflation/taxes. Meanwhile, midlevels and nurses get raises. I can't really geographic arbitrage cause my kid is here, and the thought of doing another residency/fellowship makes me cringe. I guess I'll ride it out till I really wanna quit. At least I don't have an insane lifestyle, only 1 kid, no wife to spend my money frivolously. What a slap in the face.

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[SeekerOfTheTree]

That sucks...I hear ya. We have nurses getting bonuses that are larger than our sign on bonuses were.

 

[bravotwozero]

Are they the only game in town? If not, see what the competition is willing to offer you…

 

[turkeyjerky]

Get used to it. Everyone. The next decade is going to be a rude awakening to most of us, as to the realities of being a wage-laborer in capitalist system.

 

[sylvanthus]

Get your online NP degree?

 

[thegenius]

That sucks...I hear ya. We have nurses getting bonuses that are larger than our sign on bonuses were.

yea we have traveling nurses making upwards to 250/hr

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

yea we have traveling nurses making upwards to 250/hr

This is the power of saying no acting like a hero. An online NP degree means that you can still work as a nurse.

NP degrees are only looked down on physician forums you see prestigious programs offering them training.

 

[namethatsmell]

yea we have traveling nurses making upwards to 250/hr

So when are the HCAs / CMGs of the world going to create "nursing staffing solutions" and have 1 RN "collaborate" with 4 techs to work at the "top of their training?" Serious question.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

So when are the HCAs / CMGs of the world going to create "nursing staffing solutions" and have 1 RN "collaborate" with 4 techs to work at the "top of their training?" Serious question.

They can but you get a nursing license you are licensed in every state so it makes it harder for management teams.

Also there are traveling groups that make half of what they take but nurses are often employees so they are under the hospital.

There isn’t also a months long credentialing process so a nurse can just put in a two weeks notice or call off for any reason.

They absolutely will not take more crap like doctors do and with NP there is a shortage of nurses and an ER nurse can be an ICU/PACU/Med Floor unlike a physician.

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

Get used to it. Everyone. The next decade is going to be a rude awakening to most of us, as to the realities of being a wage-laborer in capitalist system.

Id prolly rephrase that as a wage laborer in a ever evolving socialist system where prices are controlled by centralized systems, and a select few (not the market) is controlling your compensation!!!

The rest of your comment though I agree with 100%… the next decade is gonna be ruffffff!!!

 

[WilcoWorld]

Id prolly rephrase that as a wage laborer in a ever evolving socialist system where prices are controlled by centralized systems, and a select few (not the market) is controlling your compensation!!!

The rest of your comment though I agree with 100%… the next decade is gonna be ruffffff!!!

CMG's are Socialist? Seems more like a Plutocracy to me.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Id prolly rephrase that as a wage laborer in a ever evolving socialist system where prices are controlled by centralized systems, and a select few (not the market) is controlling your compensation!!!

The rest of your comment though I agree with 100%… the next decade is gonna be ruffffff!!!

Please please please medical students reading this: stay away from EM. I know you think it's the "only specialty" you can see yourself doing, and I know the lies your medical school faculty are selling. I know you think all the attendings on here are just burnt out crusties and that it'll be different for you You have the ability to avoid this disaster. Ortho (joints and spine esp), rads, Cards/GI, neuro (there are dual boarded NICU+EEG docs out there making 1 mil / yr), whatever. Just don't do EM. I'll be ok since I have just one kid and a very nice, but not ridiculous lifestyle - I have no idea what the docs I work with who have 3-4 kids are gonna do. I feel so bad for our residents - they are walking into a slaughter.

 

[DeadCactus]

CMG's are Socialist? Seems more like a Plutocracy to me.

Socialism isn't a real concept anymore, it's just a boogeyman you call up whenever something isn't working the way you want economically.

The free market is a profession where your training is subsidized by the government and your income base is heavily supported by government payments, laws require your services to be used before patients can buy what they want, and foreign competition is kept out by cumbersome regulatory processes.

Socialism is corporations coming in and mass producing a cheaper product that the general public is happy to consume and driving down physician salaries through increased supply.

 

[EctopicFetus]

So when are the HCAs / CMGs of the world going to create "nursing staffing solutions" and have 1 RN "collaborate" with 4 techs to work at the "top of their training?" Serious question.

No money there and nurses have unions who prevent them from bein screwed. Nurses have the aanp pushing them and Congress. We have acep on its knees blowing CMG execs for 🍤 and crappy booze 🥃 🍺

 

[namethatsmell]

They can but you get a nursing license you are licensed in every state so it makes it harder for management teams.

Also there are traveling groups that make half of what they take but nurses are often employees so they are under the hospital.

There isn’t also a months long credentialing process so a nurse can just put in a two weeks notice or call off for any reason.

They absolutely will not take more crap like doctors do and with NP there is a shortage of nurses and an ER nurse can be an ICU/PACU/Med Floor unlike a physician.

No money there and nurses have unions who prevent them from bein screwed. Nurses have the aanp pushing them and Congress. We have acep on its knees blowing CMG execs for 🍤 and crappy booze 🥃 🍺

You guys are right that RNs will take less crap than us, and the more options they (or anybody) have...the more power they have to walk away from a crappy job.

But now they're getting $250/hr and 10k a week? That's definitely money on the table for hospitals to "contain." If these RN rates keeps up, watch what happens...

 

[Rekt]

You guys are right that RNs will take less crap than us, and the more options they (or anybody) have...the more power they have to walk away from a crappy job.

But now they're getting $250/hr and 10k a week? That's definitely money on the table for hospitals to "contain." If these RN rates keeps up, watch what happens...

It has to collapse soon. Our hospital has been slowly ending all the travel contracts and now there's a bunch of new grad nurses that are perm positions. Once the traveling dries up, the nurses will have nothing to come back to.

 

[aafisahar]

Id prolly rephrase that as a wage laborer in a ever evolving socialist system where prices are controlled by centralized systems, and a select few (not the market) is controlling your compensation!!!

The rest of your comment though I agree with 100%… the next decade is gonna be ruffffff!!!

There is nothing socialist about our Healthcare system unless you are military or at the VA and that's more appropriate to say single payer than anything else.

 

[GeneralVeers]

There is nothing socialist about our Healthcare system unless you are military or at the VA and that's more appropriate to say single payer than anything else.

It's actually a mixture of socialism and crony capitalism. It's socialist in that a huge proportion is made up of Medicare/Medicaid which is centralized control of the means of production. Anyone who doesn't think there is centralized control hasn't experienced a CMS evaluation at a hospital. Capitalism is involved to the extent that corrupt corporations lobby the centralized authority to provide the government-controlled services. They are private to a degree, but not in any way resembling free-market capitalism.

 

[EctopicFetus]

It has to collapse soon. Our hospital has been slowly ending all the travel contracts and now there's a bunch of new grad nurses that are perm positions. Once the traveling dries up, the nurses will have nothing to come back to.

More nps. The only way that changes is if pay lines up between the 2. The life of an np no matter how dumb and incompetent they are is better than the ass wiping and turning and dealing with patients in the ed.

 

[Fox800]

Ready to be done with the stupidity and low staffing. Travel nurses are lazy, no urgency to get things done. They'll let labs sit outstanding for 2-3 hours and don't check on them unless I prompt them. What are we paying them bank for again?

I'm ready to look at a 1 year fellowship to do something else.

 

[wareagle726]

Its so sad because I loved it so much in residency. Still love the occasional patient that is actually sick. Otherwise it is no longer a dream. FYI I'm barely out of residency for the students reading this. Saw one of our NPs switch to ortho in a 3 week time period just because he wanted to. Must be nice.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Nurses can always do NP and then go back to travel nursing to make bank. While we get pushed out with little career flexibility

 

[thegenius]

Ready to be done with the stupidity and low staffing. Travel nurses are lazy, no urgency to get things done. They'll let labs sit outstanding for 2-3 hours and don't check on them unless I prompt them. What are we paying them bank for again?

I'm ready to look at a 1 year fellowship to do something else.

+1

 

[Fox800]

So, strongly thinking about fellowship. Pain vs HPM vs sports med vs EMS vs....????

Critical care seems fascinating but I don't want to be on call 6 days a week for the next 2 years.
EMS fellowship sounds fun but job market seems tiny. Don't want to have to take a job in a city I hate.
HPM: low pay, cush, rewarding. No call.
Sports medicine: TBH don't really care about pro sports but event medicine is cool + could own your own clinic and do non-op ortho stuff. Could be a team physician. No call.
Pain: Procedures are cool. Job market seems to be in flux somewhat. No call.

I have a side gig that's pulling in decent money...about 1.25x fellow salary annually (on top of the fellow salary). I'd be able to handle my loan payments. You can do anything for a year.

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

Pain medicine is gonna get gang-banged with all these burnt-out EM attendings who are early in their careers, along with large swaths of residents not even considering attending level EM practice.

 

[GeneralVeers]

The guy I was working with last night asked me about my retirement. I told him I was done after 13 years. He said he's only been out for 2 and already to quit. That's how bad things have gotten.

 

[Torsion]

I'm curious about what the career opportunities are for EM trained docs with a sports med fellowship. Is this something you do in addition to EM and can transition to full time if you tire of the ER or does this represent a necessary full-time commitment to clinic-based medicine from the get go?

 

[Febreeze]

I'm curious about what the career opportunities are for EM trained docs with a sports med fellowship. Is this something you do in addition to EM and can transition to full time if you tire of the ER or does this represent a necessary full-time commitment to clinic-based medicine from the get go?

I'm applying for Sports right now, finishing up residency this year. You can really do whatever you want. You can do a split of EM and sports (it requires a place that is able to do both or do part time for one and full for the other, but is do-able and people do it). You can also do just EM after with some coverage on weekends for teams. You can also just do full sports if you want after. All depends on what you want to do and locations and situations you are open to working in.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I'm curious about what the career opportunities are for EM trained docs with a sports med fellowship. Is this something you do in addition to EM and can transition to full time if you tire of the ER or does this represent a necessary full-time commitment to clinic-based medicine from the get go?

I met an EM/sports med trained doc at my former facility when I was a patient. She did a mix of both, could have done just one or the other but she wanted to do both. This was a big academic type place. I suspect options are varied and really depend on your employer.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

The guy I was working with last night asked me about my retirement. I told him I was done after 13 years. He said he's only been out for 2 and already to quit. That's how bad things have gotten.

Yet 1000s will willingly enter the Match this spring and sign up for this voluntarily. Crazy.

 

[Rekt]

Yet 1000s will willingly enter the Match this spring and sign up for this voluntarily. Crazy.

Within the next year it will be 3000 PGY1s entering EM. It was 1500-1600 less than 10 years ago.