I quit, and it's awesome

[alpinism]

I will say a huge benefit of EM is that its still very easy to pick up PRN rural shifts.

It's definitely possible to make 100K+ and work shifts one weekend a month.

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[miacomet]

Have you thought about just doing telehealth? There are PRN, full time, and part time jobs avail I believe. If money was not a big issue, and just need 100K spending money and something to do, that would be like working 20 hrs/wk in your pajamas at a low end $100/hr.

I know tele med can suck and a script mill but they typically are low risk pts who just want a script or work note.

Lifestyle would be fantastic. Work as much as you need/want to pay for travels.

Also, If I were single, I would do Cruise medicine and get free traveling.

OMG I know people who do cruise medicine. It's a hellstorm. Have you ever looked at their pay and working conditions? Like most things, it's GREAT for nurses, and terrible for physicians. Terrible.

 

[miacomet]

I work mostly weekends and all but one weekend each month, so every month I have a 8-10 day gap in shifts - by the end of my gap I am fairly keen to go back to work even though work kind of sucks - I have a lot of hobbies and four kids and I like my husband, so I don’t think it’s just boredom per se , but I wonder if you feel anything like that? Or just glad to be out of the situation? Do you miss any part of your job?

Well, I wish my job had worked out for me. So there's a weird feeling about that. But it...just wasn't working for me, and it was getting worse, not better.
I wish I had more money and I wish that my old job would stop screwing up accessing my pension, which is a nightmare and which feels like a continuation of the abuse...I may never get it, which will be problematic.

Work mostly weekends? That sounds yikes.

 

[NYEMMED]

OMG I know people who do cruise medicine. It's a hellstorm. Have you ever looked at their pay and working conditions? Like most things, it's GREAT for nurses, and terrible for physicians. Terrible.

Wow, I always thought it would be a chill job with lots of on board benefits

 

[emergentmd]

When I was a cruise doc 20 yrs ago, it was cushy. 1 hr am and 1 hr pm clinic. Prob saw 3-4 pts/dy. Pay was terrible but I got to leave the boat often. It would fit someone who wants a cheap vaca, do alittle work.

Since covid, I hear it is real work but the pay quoted to me was like 30k/month cruise.

Truthfully, I rather do telemed and make the 5K to take a nice cruise

 

[miacomet]

When I was a cruise doc 20 yrs ago, it was cushy. 1 hr am and 1 hr pm clinic. Prob saw 3-4 pts/dy. Pay was terrible but I got to leave the boat often. It would fit someone who wants a cheap vaca, do alittle work.

Since covid, I hear it is real work but the pay quoted to me was like 30k/month cruise.

Truthfully, I rather do telemed and make the 5K to take a nice cruise

Very chill colleague did it a few years ago, pre Covid. Pay was really poor (same as nurses) rarely got to leave the boat, on call constantly, a few really sick patients (many elders), at least one or two deaths. Just sounded terrible.

 

[bravotwozero]

Very chill colleague did it a few years ago, pre Covid. Pay was really poor (same as nurses) rarely got to leave the boat, on call constantly, a few really sick patients (many elders), at least one or two deaths. Just sounded terrible.

Did you happen to find any disability review gigs in your area?

 

[WorkNoteEmergency]

You have a financial advisor managing your finances? Has that been good I’m your experience?

In this case, it's a rent an adviser. I have all my investments with Schwab and I paid a $300 fee and he's gathered all my info, crunching the numbers and will provide advice on retirement outlook. I've managed my own money for years, other than using an accountant for taxes (definitely a good experience). I've always felt that I could manage my own investments at least as well as a pro + the typical 1% AUM fee. I've been on the fence about this more lately as markets have become more complicated.

 

[forchinet121]

In this case, it's a rent an adviser. I have all my investments with Schwab and I paid a $300 fee and he's gathered all my info, crunching the numbers and will provide advice on retirement outlook. I've managed my own money for years, other than using an accountant for taxes (definitely a good experience). I've always felt that I could manage my own investments at least as well as a pro + the typical 1% AUM fee. I've been on the fence about this more lately as markets have become more complicated.

How many years have you been practicing and approx what’s your net worth?

 

[emergentmd]

Very chill colleague did it a few years ago, pre Covid. Pay was really poor (same as nurses) rarely got to leave the boat, on call constantly, a few really sick patients (many elders), at least one or two deaths. Just sounded terrible.

Yeah this would be a big no go. I only did 3x1wk cruises and always summer typical healthy young. NEVER would I do winter and have a URI clinic.

 

[Apollyon]

I tried to keep it really amicable. I mean, they threw me a huge, fancy party at a resort so I hope so. Filling my shifts wasn't an issue, but they might have taken it personally, I don't know. There were over 35 applicants for my position, so that was not an issue at all.

I called my director and let him know. He was SHOCKED as I'd been there 12 years, which is...a lifetime in EM. I basically said it's me, not you, and asked him what would work for the group regarding with my last day, and he said whenever you want, so I just kept all my shifts so as not to leave them in the lurch for Thanksgiving. I would have stayed a few more weeks but I decided it was safer just to work my assigned shifts due to the concerns you listed re: nights and weekends. It was about 120 days notice. There was no notable hostility, although some jealousy and confusion.

The sad thing is there just isn't much of a market for burnt out ER doctors. I'd like to work in something, but we aren't NPs, retraining is hard.

This weekend? Snowshoeing, maybe skiing, we will see. Sleeping for sure. I think I will be OK financially, but wow not getting free food, health insurance, and gift certificates is cutting into the bottom line, and well winter activities are pricey, as is the equipment. We'll see.

Your burnout and my burnout look remarkably different. Like, day and night.

 

[miacomet]

Your burnout and my burnout look remarkably different. Like, day and night.

??? tell me more

 

[Apollyon]

??? tell me more

UPMC fired me on 19 December, 3 years ago, and made sure I got the letter at noon on Christmas Eve.

 

[Fox800]

Thought about cruise ship medicine, but they tend to use sketchy locums companies and most of them were wanting to send me on a 120 day deployment...you can't really do one month on at a time any more.

I wouldn't want to be away from S/O, family, and friends for 60+ days.

 

[miacomet]

UPMC fired me on 19 December, 3 years ago, and made sure I got the letter at noon on Christmas Eve.

Yikes, I'm so sorry. I hope you managed to find other employment and this didn't cause long-term career damage.

UPMC? I had no idea, Why? Replacing the group?

 

[Apollyon]

Yikes, I'm so sorry. I hope you managed to find other employment and this didn't cause long-term career damage.

UPMC? I had no idea, Why? Replacing the group?

I'm finally almost to something new in medicine. My career was totally decimated.

UPMC pays pi$$-ball wages in rural sites, understaffs with literal incompetents (one guy I called the "walking lawsuit"), and provides zero support if you're not in Pittsburgh proper or Erie. People that say "go rural - it's slow and easy and pays well" aren't working there.

 

[bravotwozero]

right now isn’t a bad time to do locums for someone in a position to do it. Lots of jobs that will pay a reasonable flat rate, which would take the pressure off the new documentation rules.

 

[Fox800]

I wouldn't mind finding a cush VA or IHS place (west coast or Alaska) to do some locums, but I'm not sure how to start. Or if there's a locums agency that specializes in that stuff.

 

[miacomet]

I'm finally almost to something new in medicine. My career was totally decimated.

UPMC pays pi$$-ball wages in rural sites, understaffs with literal incompetents (one guy I called the "walking lawsuit"), and provides zero support if you're not in Pittsburgh proper or Erie. People that say "go rural - it's slow and easy and pays well" aren't working there.

Yikes, I'm so sorry. It's awful they destroyed your career in EM- that's just malicious. I'm glad you found something else!

 

[Splenda88]

If you are <46 yrs old with a paid off house (no outstanding debts) and have 1 mil invested in the market, you can definitely semi retire with no issues. By the time you are 65, your investment will be at 6+ mil if the S&P500 return is ~10%/yr on average, which it has historically been.

The good thing about medicine is that you can make 100k+/yr working part time. It's even better for EM docs because you guys/gals can work 6 shifts/month and still make ~150k/yr.

Medicine seems to be more tolerable when one work part time. I am a hospitalist with an ok job where I can literally watch 2 soccer games (which I did during the world cup) back to back and still get out by 6:30pm. And even with that degree of freedom, I still don't think I can work medicine FT for > 12 yrs.

I am just at the beginning of yr 2 of my career and as soon as reach the above target (1mil plus a paid off home), which might take me another 6 yrs, I will cut my shifts from 1 wk on/off to 1 wk on and 3 wks off.

I certainly feel bad for my EM colleagues who can't even sit for 30 mins in the physicians dinning room to have a meal.

 

[miacomet]

If you are <46 yrs old with a paid off house (no outstanding debts) and have 1 mil invested in the market, you can definitely semi retire with no issues. By the time you are 65, your investment will be at 6+ mil if the S&P500 return is ~10%/yr on average, which it has historically been.

The good thing about medicine is that you can make 100k+/yr working part time. It's even better for EM docs because you guys/gals can work 6 shifts/month and still make ~150k/yr.

Medicine seems to be more tolerable when one work part time. I am a hospitalist with an ok job where I can literally watch 2 soccer games (which I did during the world cup) back to back and still get out by 6:30pm. And even with that degree of freedom, I still don't think I can work medicine FT for > 12 yrs.

I am just at the beginning of yr 2 of my career and as soon as reach the above target (1mil plus a paid off home), which might take me another 6 yrs, I will cut my shifts from 1 wk on/off to 1 wk on and 3 wks off.

I certainly feel bad for my EM colleagues who can't even sit for 30 mins in the physicians dinning room to have a meal.

I worked part time, but the constant "I have to talk to you about a patient" on a Sunday after a night shift was...too much. 50-100k a year would be great and would REALLY decrease my stress, but not sure if I can do it anymore.

Agreed on the physicians dining room. EM leaves no space for that.

 

[WilcoWorld]

That's the neat part; you don't.

Pretty tough to get falsely accused of putting a telehealth patient in a headlock - so that's a plus.

 

[RustedFox]

Pretty tough to get falsely accused of putting a telehealth patient in a headlock - so that's a plus.

Yeah, there's that.
I can't believe I still have to go to a committee to tell them that this is a confabulation.

 

[Splenda88]

I worked part time, but the constant "I have to talk to you about a patient" on a Sunday after a night shift was...too much. 50-100k a year would be great and would REALLY decrease my stress, but not sure if I can do it anymore.

Agreed on the physicians dining room. EM leaves no space for that.

Maybe you should try telemedicine. You probably can easily make 70-80k doing that.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

If you are <46 yrs old with a paid off house (no outstanding debts) and have 1 mil invested in the market, you can definitely semi retire with no issues. By the time you are 65, your investment will be at 6+ mil if the S&P500 return is ~10%/yr on average, which it has historically been.

The good thing about medicine is that you can make 100k+/yr working part time. It's even better for EM docs because you guys/gals can work 6 shifts/month and still make ~150k/yr.

Medicine seems to be more tolerable when one work part time. I am a hospitalist with an ok job where I can literally watch 2 soccer games (which I did during the world cup) back to back and still get out by 6:30pm. And even with that degree of freedom, I still don't think I can work medicine FT for > 12 yrs.

I am just at the beginning of yr 2 of my career and as soon as reach the above target (1mil plus a paid off home), which might take me another 6 yrs, I will cut my shifts from 1 wk on/off to 1 wk on and 3 wks off.

I certainly feel bad for my EM colleagues who can't even sit for 30 mins in the physicians dinning room to have a meal.

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable relying on 10%+ returns but, as you mentioned, EM allows us to work 4-6 shifts and make an income that can still support a good life. You won't have the same house as the neurosurgeon still working at 70 with 3 ex-wives but you'll enjoy your life a lot more.

 

[Splenda88]

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable relying on 10%+ returns but, as you mentioned, EM allows us to work 4-6 shifts and make an income that can still support a good life. You won't have the same house as the neurosurgeon still working at 70 with 3 ex-wives but you'll enjoy your life a lot more.

Even 7% with put one close to 4 mil...

S&P 500 Average Return and Historical Performance

See the historical performance of the S&P 500 Index. Learn more about the factors that affect the S&P 500 average return.

www.investopedia.com

I guess physicians should start being a little bit more conservative on how they spend their $$$. Regardless, there is no reason that most physicians can't be semi retired after working for 15 years unless they are stupid with money or they went thru divorce(s) etc...

 

[JacobMcCandles]

I guess physicians should start being a little bit more conservative on how they spend their $$$. Regardless, there is no reason that most physicians can't be semi retired after working for 15 years unless they are stupid with money or they went thru divorce(s) etc...

100%. The issues with physicians is that most don't live reasonably within their means, they don't invest as much as the should for the retirement life they want, or they think they're smarter than the market and end up underperforming their entire career which significantly cuts into their nest egg.

 

[Groove]

I quit and it's awesome. Yes, I wish I had more money, mainly because I'm not a huge fan of my house, but the lack of work stress, the regular hours, the freedom...intoxicating and relaxing.

Giving myself three to six months of R&R and then we will see if locums/new job appeals.

Way to go dude. I'm sure you needed the break. Enjoy it and get some R & R. Maybe try a cush part time travel locums assignment where you only have to work 6-8 shifts a month?

 

[Fox800]

Way to go dude. I'm sure you needed the break. Enjoy it and get some R & R. Maybe try a cush part time travel locums assignment where you only have to work 6-8 shifts a month?

Seriously. Go somewhere cool like Alaska, Guam, Saipan, etc. Work a week then play for the rest of the month.

Oh wait, that's my plan.

 

[emergentmd]

EM is great for someone who never wants kids and single.

Your cost of living is low. work 5 dys a month and make close to 200K. Travel for 2 wks every month for 5-10k/trip. This is what I would do. 2 wks is about the right time for me to visit a new country.

I would also take a 3-6 month world cruise to touch on places and find out if I want to go back for 2 wks.

That would be an amazing lifestyle if marriage/kids is not your thing.

 

[WorkNoteEmergency]

How many years have you been practicing and approx what’s your net worth?

20 years total, 12 years EM, Navy GMO before that. I'm a late bloomer and was Navy line officer before all that. Net worth about 2.7M right now. If I had another 1M in the bank I'd have quit last winter. I will still need to work some but I'm at the point now where playing my guitar on the street corner sounds like a viable option.

 

[Splenda88]

20 years total, 12 years EM, Navy GMO before that. I'm a late bloomer and was Navy line officer before all that. Net worth about 2.7M right now. If I had another 1M in the bank I'd have quit last winter. I will still need to work some but I'm at the point now where playing my guitar on the street corner sounds like a viable option.

With that net worth, you should be able to cut your hrs to part time (~6 days every month). Hopefully, 150k/yr is enough to maintain your current lifestyle.

 

[miacomet]

20 years total, 12 years EM, Navy GMO before that. I'm a late bloomer and was Navy line officer before all that. Net worth about 2.7M right now. If I had another 1M in the bank I'd have quit last winter. I will still need to work some but I'm at the point now where playing my guitar on the street corner sounds like a viable option.

2.7 investable or with house?
Agreed that around 4 mm plus house is retirement time.

 

[bravotwozero]

filling out surveys, if you're diligent, can also bring money that's not insignificant. Could easily bring in $1k a month, especially if one has time for it. Not enough to live off of, but not nothing.

 

[miacomet]

filling out surveys, if you're diligent, can also bring money that's not insignificant. Could easily bring in $1k a month, especially if one has time for it. Not enough to live off of, but not nothing.

What surveys?

 

[WorkNoteEmergency]

2.7 investable or with house?
Agreed that around 4 mm plus house is retirement time.

Doesn't include house which isn't paid off and that's the rub. My wife, god bless her, I told her it's time to make a change and her immediate reply was "OK, should we get a smaller house?"

 

[GassYous]

Doesn't include house which isn't paid off and that's the rub. My wife, god bless her, I told her it's time to make a change and her immediate reply was "OK, should we get a smaller house?"

How big is it

 

[PianoMedic]

What surveys?

Medical surveys. Some of the FI physician blogs have links to sponsors so you and they get a slight incentive for going through their links, but gives some ideas as to which companies to use.

 

[miacomet]

Doesn't include house which isn't paid off and that's the rub. My wife, god bless her, I told her it's time to make a change and her immediate reply was "OK, should we get a smaller house?"

Nice! How much mortgage do you have left?

 

[xaelia]

2.7 investable or with house?
Agreed that around 4 mm plus house is retirement time.

Also depends how old/expensive your kids are.

And health status and need for non-government insurance.

The employer-based health insurance – and just overall individual healthcare cost risk – in the U.S. makes it tremendously difficult to slow down/transition careers.

 

[miacomet]

Also depends how old/expensive your kids are.

And health status and need for non-government insurance.

The employer-based health insurance – and just overall individual healthcare cost risk – in the U.S. makes it tremendously difficult to slow down/transition careers.

I made the mistake of taking Cobra (there were reasons at the time, and if I pick up any work this year, it will work out financially due to an HSA).

But my ACA premium would have been $32 a month.

 

[WorkNoteEmergency]

Nice! How much mortgage do you have left?

Ahem, ahhh, 750k.

I've been paying extra principal so will be paid off in 16 yrs current rate. I met with the financial guy today and was very pleasantly surprised. We modeled 100k pretax income for next 5 yrs before full stop with wifey continuing her part time job (and health insurance for us) for the same amount of time. I'm confident I can generate the 100k whether it's seeing patients or not. Looks like it's a go!

 

[Old_Mil]

OMG I know people who do cruise medicine. It's a hellstorm. Have you ever looked at their pay and working conditions? Like most things, it's GREAT for nurses, and terrible for physicians. Terrible.

When Covid first started, I was getting calls from recruiters to go work on those quarantined cruise ships.
Hours? 24/7.
Time off? None.
They were supposed to fly whichever unsuspecting victim agreed to this out to the ship.

Yeah, out is beautiful. I've thought about doing a little part time telemed work to keep my head in the game, but none of the companies I've looked at make it worthwhile to do it.

 

[Mr. Vandemar]

Medical surveys. Some of the FI physician blogs have links to sponsors so you and they get a slight incentive for going through their links, but gives some ideas as to which companies to use.

I always get screened out. Seems they want subspecialists more than community EM docs, or maybe I’ve been unlucky.

 

[Fox800]

When Covid first started, I was getting calls from recruiters to go work on those quarantined cruise ships.
Hours? 24/7.
Time off? None.
They were supposed to fly whichever unsuspecting victim agreed to this out to the ship.

Yeah, out is beautiful. I've thought about doing a little part time telemed work to keep my head in the game, but none of the companies I've looked at make it worthwhile to do it.

I would do it for a few weeks at a time, but I understand they want you to deploy for like 4 months at a time, which is a deal-breaker.