Legal action

[Burnted_out]

I recently graduated from a pretty malignant program. Took boards, have great job close to family so life is going well now. However residency was a nightmare with a number of highly malignant attendings. The ACGME got involved, did an investigation, and one of the attendings got let go, another one is on the way out once a replacement can be found. Some of my classmates have talked about pursuing legal action. I am not certain. On the one hand it would provide some closure on the other it would be exhausting. Just looking for others thoughts.

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[smq123]

I recently graduated from a pretty malignant program. Took boards, have great job close to family so life is going well now. However residency was a nightmare with a number of highly malignant attendings. The ACGME got involved, did an investigation, and one of the attendings got let go, another one is on the way out once a replacement can be found. Some of my classmates have talked about pursuing legal action. I am not certain. On the one hand it would provide some closure on the other it would be exhausting. Just looking for others thoughts.

Would it really provide closure? Or just provide some closure while exhausting you and forcing you to mentally re-live the experience?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Your closure is being a trained-whatever and having a good job as a result.

Don't do it.

 

[Burnted_out]

Would it really provide closure? Or just provide some closure while exhausting you and forcing you to mentally re-live the experience?

You are absolutely correct in that it would force me to relive painful memories and significant abuse - but I would say that if the ACGME got involved, interviewed all residents and most attendings and the attending was let go (and even PD almost got let go) it is no small potatoes. I experienced years of crap by some attendings and it wasn’t just me. Shouldn’t there be some justice given it’s already been proved that this person was rotten? They were even punished by the medical board, found to have assault charges, etc

 

[Winged Scapula]

Legal action rarely, in my opinion, provides a sense of satisfaction or psychological well-being. From a legal perspective I would imagine you would have difficulty proving harm if you completed the program and now are a board-certified physician but I’m no lawyer.

You and your classmates have to ask yourself what’s the goal: is it really “closure” or trying to inflict further harm upon this person in revenge? I’m not saying that he or she doesn’t deserve to be punished but it sounds like that’s already happened so suing them for pain and suffering seems to be needless. What is your goal?

 

[GoSpursGo]

What do you imagine the courts would do above and beyond what the ACGME and medical board have already done?

I have a hard time imagining the courts overstepping these regulatory bodies.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You are absolutely correct in that it would force me to relive painful memories and significant abuse - but I would say that if the ACGME got involved, interviewed all residents and most attendings and the attending was let go (and even PD almost got let go) it is no small potatoes. I experienced years of crap by some attendings and it wasn’t just me. Shouldn’t there be some justice given it’s already been proved that this person was rotten? They were even punished by the medical board, found to have assault charges, etc

Seems like they've already been punished and so justice was served.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You're talking about two different things, legal action and ACGME.

Legal action - exactly what grounds would you sue on? Being a jerk isn't illegal. You've graduated and have a job. You could sue for sexual misconduct if present. Lawsuits are long and ugly, expect this to consume 5+ years of your life. And would it really fix anything? (If there was sexual misconduct, that might bring someone's career to an end if proven).

ACGME - you misunderstand how the ACGME works. They do not tend to get involved at the level of interviewing specific people. They tend to look at the program as a whole, and how it meets ACGME standards. It's possible that an ACGME adverse outcome (i.e. probation) would stimulate the program / institution to change, but it's also possible that it will make things worse for the people in the program.

 

[colbgw02]

I, too, am curious as to what the alleged tort and/or criminal action was.

 

[Burnted_out]

You're talking about two different things, legal action and ACGME.

Legal action - exactly what grounds would you sue on? Being a jerk isn't illegal. You've graduated and have a job. You could sue for sexual misconduct if present. Lawsuits are long and ugly, expect this to consume 5+ years of your life. And would it really fix anything? (If there was sexual misconduct, that might bring someone's career to an end if proven).

ACGME - you misunderstand how the ACGME works. They do not tend to get involved at the level of interviewing specific people. They tend to look at the program as a whole, and how it meets ACGME standards. It's possible that an ACGME adverse outcome (i.e. probation) would stimulate the program / institution to change, but it's also possible that it will make things worse for the people in the program.

Well several complaints were submitted to ACGME and as mentioned the entire program was interviewed, and the higher ups of the institution became involved. An action plan had to be submitted to ACGME, which decided that letting go of this person was sufficient.
Being a jerk is not illegal, but being unprofessional, sexist, racist, making crap up to try to harm someone is. And unprofessionalism is also a core competency - we were always strung along with threats of unprofessionalism right and left. ACGME decided against probation as long as this individual was let go from the program. This person also was previously fired from residency in a different specialty, and had 2 other actions from the board. Why do they still have a license? They have an assault charge, and sexual harassment complaints.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Move on - residency sucked, the staff was fired, and life continues. You escaped with a board certification- want to get back at them? Spread the word about the malignant program to prospective applicants.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Being a jerk is not illegal, but being unprofessional, sexist, racist, making crap up to try to harm someone is. And unprofessionalism is also a core competency - we were always strung along with threats of unprofessionalism right and left. ACGME decided against probation as long as this individual was let go from the program. This person also was previously fired from residency in a different specialty, and had 2 other actions from the board. Why do they still have a license? They have an assault charge, and sexual harassment complaints.

I'm not sure that being "unprofessional, sexist, or racist" actually are illegal, though they frequently are grounds for being fired. As they were in this case. You may think the ACGME and medical board did not go far enough, but again, I'm not sure anything illegal happened by this doctor not having his/her license revoked or the program not being put on probation.

Ultimately, what are you concretely seeking? If it is having this person's license revoked, I think you're facing a very uphill battle. If you want criminal action taken as the result of sexual harassment, that is an entirely separate issue.

 

[Burnted_out]

I'm actually not sure that being "unprofessional, sexist, or racist" actually are illegal, though they frequently are grounds for being fired. As they were in this case. You may think the ACGME and medical board did not go far enough, but again, I'm not sure anything illegal happened by this doctor not having his/her license revoked or the program not being put on probation.

Ultimately, what are you concretely seeking? If it is having this person's license revoked, I think you're facing a very uphill battle. If you want criminal action taken as the result of sexual harassment, that is an entirely separate issue.

I am seeking that they be punished to provide closure. Every resident complained about this person. They were fired from a previous program as I said. They were negligent, racist, sexist, have criminal record, made our life hell for years. Would you want this person as a doctor? They should have their license revoked for sure and they should pay up both financially and in terms of their career ending. You think it’s ok for them to simply go to a different state and practice like nothing happened?

 

[smq123]

I am seeking that they be punished to provide closure. Every resident complained about this person. They were fired from a previous program as I said. They were negligent, racist, sexist, have criminal record, made our life hell for years. Would you want this person as a doctor? They should have their license revoked for sure and they should pay up both financially and in terms of their career ending. You think it’s ok for them to simply go to a different state and practice like nothing happened?

No, but what we're saying is that it doesn't seem to be worth 5 years of your life, legal fees, and mental anguish just to get, basically, revenge.

I'm sorry that you had such a bad residency experience, but it's time to move on.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I am seeking that they be punished to provide closure. Every resident complained about this person. They were fired from a previous program as I said. They were negligent, racist, sexist, have criminal record, made our life hell for years. Would you want this person as a doctor? They should have their license revoked for sure and they should pay up both financially and in terms of their career ending. You think it’s ok for them to simply go to a different state and practice like nothing happened?

If you have a board action against you and you apply for a license to practice elsewhere, you have to explain what that prior board action is about. You can't just move to a new state and pretend nothing ever happened.

 

[Burnted_out]

negligent, racist, sexist

Can you give examples?

This person would simply for example leave the hospital and leave residents alone - sometimes would leave even as early as 10am with no supervising, not answer the phone/texts, completely unsupervised. Would not show up until the next day - this was a routine issue. During emergencies they would avoid residents, no way to contact them. One emergency one of my fellow residents tried to call them while they were on call, they did not answer the phone and when the resident saw them the next morning they avoided them and went the opposite way. Complete patient abandonment. Would not know basic management for patient care, would not have appropriate medical knowledge, would ask residents how to manage things - and not in a I want to know what you know kind of way. Complete incompetence. Would make racist remarks, talk about residents behind thei back to other residents, allow male residents to do procedures but not female residents. Sexually inappropriate with residents, other staff and students. Would refuse to let female residents be team leads. When he would make known mistakes he would blame residents. Would fabricate things on Evals that were not true and when they were confronted about it would try to change the subject, Etc

 

[GoSpursGo]

I am seeking that they be punished to provide closure. Every resident complained about this person. They were fired from a previous program as I said. They were negligent, racist, sexist, have criminal record, made our life hell for years. Would you want this person as a doctor? They should have their license revoked for sure and they should pay up both financially and in terms of their career ending. You think it’s ok for them to simply go to a different state and practice like nothing happened?

I'm not saying that I would want this person as a doctor or that it's "OK" for them to move on like nothing happened (though as someone else said, I think this doctor will find it difficult to move to another state with multiple actions taken in the past by the medical board). I'm saying you need to have a better legal argument than "this person is horrible, I think they should be punished more than they already were punished."

The things you are describing are usually managed by the medical board, and they have already taken action that they deemed was fair. I'm not a lawyer, but I think you would somehow need to show that the action taken by the board is inconsistent with action they have taken against other doctors for similar violations. I have no idea how you would go about doing something like that, but if you are dead set on pursing it I suggest you actually sit down with a lawyer to discuss how you would make your argument, as we're all just making things up.

I stand by what many of us have said in that you may find that this is a lot of work for little benefit.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

I'm actually not sure that being "unprofessional, sexist, or racist" actually are illegal.

Not only is it legal, you can actually run for president of the US and win!

 

[Burnted_out]

[iQUOTE="RadOncDoc21, post: 20263717, member: 357220"]Not only is it legal, you can actually run for president of the US and win![/QUOTE]

Isn’t professionalism one of the core competencies in terms of practice? Why are we graded on that and potentially fired ? My “professionalism” mysteriously went down after my initial complaint to the PD. Interesting...

The medical boards punish physicians all the time for lack of professionalism.

If I were out there using racial slurs or being sexually harassing are you suggesting the board wouldn’t punish me?

 

[RadOncDoc21]

They might appreciate your refreshing candor.

 

[AdmiralChz]

[iQUOTE="RadOncDoc21, post: 20263717, member: 357220"]Not only is it legal, you can actually run for president of the US and win!

Isn’t professionalism one of the core competencies in terms of practice? Why are we graded on that and potentially fired ? My “professionalism” mysteriously went down after my initial complaint to the PD. Interesting...

The medical boards punish physicians all the time for lack of professionalism.

If I were out there using racial slurs or being sexually harassing are you suggesting the board wouldn’t punish me?[/QUOTE]

This is a he-said-she-said. That individual was fired, that’s really the end of the story with regards to the medical board.

I think you’ll find a lack of closure and total absence of satisfaction if you run with this farther. Just leave this guy in the dust where he belongs.

 

[Burnted_out]

Isn’t professionalism one of the core competencies in terms of practice? Why are we graded on that and potentially fired ? My “professionalism” mysteriously went down after my initial complaint to the PD. Interesting...

The medical boards punish physicians all the time for lack of professionalism.

If I were out there using racial slurs or being sexually harassing are you suggesting the board wouldn’t punish me?

This is a he-said-she-said. That individual was fired, that’s really the end of the story with regards to the medical board.

I think you’ll find a lack of closure and total absence of satisfaction if you run with this farther. Just leave this guy in the dust where he belongs.[/QUOTE]

Not quite - it’s not just me. I would agree that if it was just me maybe. This was 30 plus residents and most faculty. Even the dean said that this was one of the worst cases of physician inappropriateness he had seen. Complete sociopath.

I am very frustrated with the situation. I want to let it go but have a hard time finding closure. I don’t think they have been punished enough. Should have been fired and have license removed after he was fired from first residency and certainly after he assaulted someone. What a pig.

 

[Burnted_out]

They might appreciate your refreshing candor.

Ha! I actually chuckled. That was funny. Thank you for that.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Your chances of success are slim, given that the attending in question has already been fired.

My initial reaction to what everyone else said to the OP was "Screw that, the main reason malignant programs stay malignant is that the people who get out of them just bury their head in the sand and say 'not my problem anymore'. You should go after this person"

However, then I learned that the offending attending has since been fired from their position.

How is the residency now that the attending has left? Is it less malignant? Are there concrete examples in attendings that are still there that you can point at with the same level of vitriol?

Are you ready, able, and willing to end the careers of others besides this former attending, who is no longer at the program?

 

[Burnted_out]

Your chances of success are slim, given that the attending in question has already been fired.

My initial reaction to what everyone else said to the OP was "Screw that, the main reason malignant programs stay malignant is that the people who get out of them just bury their head in the sand and say 'not my problem anymore'. You should go after this person"

However, then I learned that the offending attending has since been fired from their position.

How is the residency now that the attending has left? Is it less malignant? Are there concrete examples in attendings that are still there that you can point at with the same level of vitriol?

Are you ready, able, and willing to end the careers of others besides this former attending, who is no longer at the program?

The actions of this person and other attendings in the program were beyond wrong so the answer would be yes. People with bad moral character should not be physicians. I thank you all for your suggestions, definitely appreciate them.

 

[rokshana]

Well several complaints were submitted to ACGME and as mentioned the entire program was interviewed, and the higher ups of the institution became involved. An action plan had to be submitted to ACGME, which decided that letting go of this person was sufficient.
Being a jerk is not illegal, but being unprofessional, sexist, racist, making crap up to try to harm someone is. And unprofessionalism is also a core competency - we were always strung along with threats of unprofessionalism right and left. ACGME decided against probation as long as this individual was let go from the program. This person also was previously fired from residency in a different specialty, and had 2 other actions from the board. Why do they still have a license? They have an assault charge, and sexual harassment complaints.

actually i don't think those things are actually illegal if just thoughts and vocalization...some sort of active process would be needed.

 

[rokshana]

If I were out there using racial slurs or being sexually harassing are you suggesting the board wouldn’t punish me?

its not a suggestion... sure maybe people are more sensitive to those issues now, but medical boards are a fairly conservative bunch and it takes a lot to get a licensed yanked...someone would need to be convicted of a sexual assault to have their medical license taken, just a complaint or an accusation is not going to cut it.

 

[Burnted_out]

its not a suggestion... sure maybe people are more sensitive to those issues now, but medical boards are a fairly conservative bunch and it takes a lot to get a licensed yanked...someone would need to be convicted of a sexual assault to have their medical license taken, just a complaint or an accusation is not going to cut it.

The sexual accusations are completely separate from all the other issues. They were convicted of assault/battery - again separate from the residency programs issues involving medical negligence, resident abuse, sexual issues in the program, etc

 

[GoSpursGo]

Isn’t professionalism one of the core competencies in terms of practice? Why are we graded on that and potentially fired ? My “professionalism” mysteriously went down after my initial complaint to the PD. Interesting...

The medical boards punish physicians all the time for lack of professionalism.

If I were out there using racial slurs or being sexually harassing are you suggesting the board wouldn’t punish me?

...

I am very frustrated with the situation. I want to let it go but have a hard time finding closure. I don’t think they have been punished enough. Should have been fired and have license removed after he was fired from first residency and certainly after he assaulted someone. What a pig.

These concerns were brought up to the medical board. The medical board took action against the attending, the attending was fired from his job, and he/she will have to report these actions whenever he applies for a license in the future. He was convicted of assault/battery and had to presumably pay some fine or other restitution as the result of that. How are you going to demonstrate that this was not sufficient punishment?

All I'm hearing is "I don't think enough was done to punish this guy, I want to ruin him." Which I guess is fine, but it's not a legal argument. If you don't like the answers you're getting here, then meet with a lawyer.

 

[Burnted_out]

These concerns were brought up to the medical board. The medical board took action against the attending, the attending was fired from his job, and he/she will have to report these actions whenever he applies for a license in the future. He was convicted of assault/battery and had to presumably pay some fine or other restitution as the result of that. How are you going to demonstrate that this was not sufficient punishment?

All I'm hearing is "I don't think enough was done to punish this guy, I want to ruin him." Which I guess is fine, but it's not a legal argument. If you don't like the answers you're getting here, then meet with a lawyer.

Just to clarify, these concerns were not brought to the board, he was let go from the program itself as in not contact with residents but I don’t think this person lost their privileges within the institution and this was not reported to the board. The board action was because of the unrelated assault/battery outside of the residency setting that they did not report to the board, not because of the residency issue. Because it was not reported to the board I don’t think this will affect him in the future reason why I feel life will go on as usual. Hope that makes sense. Sorry if I was not clear. So the real reason he got punished by the board is essentially because he lied and did not report the criminal charge and you are right he had to pay a fine and undergo BS anger management etc. this was compounded by other charges in the past by the board.

I am not asking for legal advice, I just wanted to get others thoughts on this that’s all. Thank you for providing your opinion.

 

[atomi]

A big problem with residency is that everybody is to chicken to fight the good fight during residency and risk getting non renewed for being “unprofessional.” But when they finish, it’s not their problem anymore and the abuse continues, or worse they become attendings and perpetuate the hazing with the i endured it so you have to too attitude.

So I am all for fighting them once you are out and protected. But to fight them in court, they have to do something illegal.

If they didn’t do anything illegal, then you answer the acgme survey honestly and call the program out publically online. That will force changes from a gme level.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

For myself (and I expect many of the other people answering), do not take our advice as some sort of implicit acceptance of this type of behavior, nor dismissive of your complaints.

Sounds like the ACGME has already forced their removal from the training program. So that "punishment" is a success.

Other options:

1. Getting them fired from their institution -- you can submit a complaint to HR. You could demonstrate poor patient care (i.e. non-supervision), workplace bullying, etc. The more people you can get on board to support the claim, the more effect it would have.

1b. You can also cause trouble at their place of employment through public shaming, although I am not a fan of this plan. Basically, you make it public knowledge how badly they treated everyone. Get a local newspaper to "muckrake" it. If the story gets enough local press, that also might force the institution to deal with it.

2. Getting the Board of Medicine involved -- you could submit a complaint to the BoM. Same dealio as the HR, the more people you have as part of the complaint the more it would be taken seriously. If they end up with a board license action, that ends up following them if they try to get a license elsewhere.

3. Submit an EEOC complaint. Your issues would need to fit into one of the EEOC "bins".

4. Sue them in court. You would need to prove that they actually broke a law of some sort. That can be complicated, because as mentioned "being a jerk" isn't illegal.

5. Submit a Medicare Fraud complaint. This is probably your best financial option (although the financial pain will be bourne by the institution, not the person involved). You mentioned that the person didn't see patients post call. If you can prove that, and they billed for those visits/days, that's Medicare Fraud. This type of offense is fined at $10K per event. EACH NOTE IS AN EVENT. These fines quickly pile into the millions of dollars. As the whistleblower, you get some percentage of any claim, and they (medicare) does all the work. (Should you do this, I want a 5% commission)

 

[Burnted_out]

For myself (and I expect many of the other people answering), do not take our advice as some sort of implicit acceptance of this type of behavior, nor dismissive of your complaints.

Sounds like the ACGME has already forced their removal from the training program. So that "punishment" is a success.

Other options:

1. Getting them fired from their institution -- you can submit a complaint to HR. You could demonstrate poor patient care (i.e. non-supervision), workplace bullying, etc. The more people you can get on board to support the claim, the more effect it would have.

1b. You can also cause trouble at their place of employment through public shaming, although I am not a fan of this plan. Basically, you make it public knowledge how badly they treated everyone. Get a local newspaper to "muckrake" it. If the story gets enough local press, that also might force the institution to deal with it.

2. Getting the Board of Medicine involved -- you could submit a complaint to the BoM. Same dealio as the HR, the more people you have as part of the complaint the more it would be taken seriously. If they end up with a board license action, that ends up following them if they try to get a license elsewhere.

3. Submit an EEOC complaint. Your issues would need to fit into one of the EEOC "bins".

4. Sue them in court. You would need to prove that they actually broke a law of some sort. That can be complicated, because as mentioned "being a jerk" isn't illegal.

5. Submit a Medicare Fraud complaint. This is probably your best financial option (although the financial pain will be bourne by the institution, not the person involved). You mentioned that the person didn't see patients post call. If you can prove that, and they billed for those visits/days, that's Medicare Fraud. This type of offense is fined at $10K per event. EACH NOTE IS AN EVENT. These fines quickly pile into the millions of dollars. As the whistleblower, you get some percentage of any claim, and they (medicare) does all the work. (Should you do this, I want a 5% commission)

Hahaha, I enjoyed reading your recommendations! Lol. It’s intereting that you mention some of those things - one of my colleagues actually filled a Medicare complaint previously, I am not sure where it went if anywhere. It would be very difficult to prove who he saw and did not see although I do know that Medicare did fine them several thousands of dollars in the past but I think it was due to compliance stuff. I mean I know who he saw and who he did not but it would be almost impossible for me to prove it - he could just say otherwise. I’d be happy you give you a commission! I saw a therapist for a brief period of time and they suggested that I either let things go or take action. I’m still struggling as to what to do. Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

5. Submit a Medicare Fraud complaint. This is probably your best financial option (although the financial pain will be bourne by the institution, not the person involved). You mentioned that the person didn't see patients post call. If you can prove that, and they billed for those visits/days, that's Medicare Fraud. This type of offense is fined at $10K per event. EACH NOTE IS AN EVENT. These fines quickly pile into the millions of dollars. As the whistleblower, you get some percentage of any claim, and they (medicare) does all the work. (Should you do this, I want a 5% commission)

My understanding is you have to sue over this and the government can choose to join you in the suit.

Seeing how much money these whistleblowers get, there's a part of me that would love to work for a shady place that might let me sue them for this...

 

[Burnted_out]

My understanding is you have to sue over this and the government can choose to join you in the suit.

Seeing how much money these whistleblowers get, there's a part of me that would love to work for a shady place that might let me sue them for this...

Lol absolutely!

 

[Apollyon]

My understanding is you have to sue over this and the government can choose to join you in the suit.

Seeing how much money these whistleblowers get, there's a part of me that would love to work for a shady place that might let me sue them for this...

Yeah, but it's hard to go into a drug house, and hang out with the junkies, and not shoot up yourself, without drawing attention to yourself.

 

[WingedOx]

Look, @Burnted_out, I had a great residency experience, but my medical school experience was really really bad. A specific incident that occurred during my M3 year spiraled out of control and the way that my school handled it was less than acceptable, and it dragged on for a solid year and a half before it was resolved. I was damn ready to submit a long-ass report to the LCME the moment I received my diploma, and to be honest I'd have been well within my right to do so... I had to use the threat of such a report to get my school to resolve the issue to my satisfaction.

But in the end it just wasn't worth my time. I moved on, moved to another city and got on with my career. The guy at fault for the issue on the rotation moved onto a nonacdemic job a year or so after I graduated. The primary student affairs dean who was flat out cancerous during my time there retired a few years back. Life moves on, and it was best to not look back. I moved the day after graduation and it was 6 years before I even set foot back in the city I went to med school in.

If anything my one regret was not taking the time to thank the people who were actually helpful during a hellish two years.

 

[Vandalia]

You're talking about two different things, legal action and ACGME.

Legal action - exactly what grounds would you sue on? Being a jerk isn't illegal. You've graduated and have a job. You could sue for sexual misconduct if present. Lawsuits are long and ugly, expect this to consume 5+ years of your life. And would it really fix anything? (If there was sexual misconduct, that might bring someone's career to an end if proven)

This is the key point. You have to have a legal claim to sue. (Well, not to sue, but to have a chance at winning.) It boils down to two questions:
1) Were you graduated from the residency program?
2) Are/were you board eligible?

If so, the program met its legal obligation to you.

One thing to keep in mind is the statute of limitations. In my state it is 2 years. I have no idea what it is in your state, but that is a fairly common number, so anything that happened before 30 August 2016 is irrelevant... and that clock keeps ticking.

One of my good friends is an attorney and he has a standard response to people who want him for cases like this:
Do you want to spend $100K? Do you want to have it consume 2 years of your life? And lose? Then fine.

 

[gutonc]

This is the key point. You have to have a legal claim to sue. (Well, not to sue, but to have a chance at winning.) It boils down to two questions:
1) Were you graduated from the residency program?
2) Are/were you board eligible?

If so, the program met its legal obligation to you.

One thing to keep in mind is the statute of limitations. In my state it is 2 years. I have no idea what it is in your state, but that is a fairly common number, so anything that happened before 30 August 2016 is irrelevant... and that clock keeps ticking.

One of my good friends is an attorney and he has a standard response to people who want him for cases like this:
Do you want to spend $100K? Do you want to have it consume 2 years of your life? And lose? Then fine.

This is key. The school/hospital has both deeper pockets, and more to lose than you do in this case. They'll fight hard. You might "win", but it will likely cost you mid-6 figures and a few years of your life. And you're much more likely to lose.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Just to clarify, these concerns were not brought to the board, he was let go from the program itself as in not contact with residents but I don’t think this person lost their privileges within the institution and this was not reported to the board. The board action was because of the unrelated assault/battery outside of the residency setting that they did not report to the board, not because of the residency issue. Because it was not reported to the board I don’t think this will affect him in the future reason why I feel life will go on as usual. Hope that makes sense. Sorry if I was not clear. So the real reason he got punished by the board is essentially because he lied and did not report the criminal charge and you are right he had to pay a fine and undergo BS anger management etc. this was compounded by other charges in the past by the board.

I am not asking for legal advice, I just wanted to get others thoughts on this that’s all. Thank you for providing your opinion.

Based on what you're saying, it seems like what you really want to do is report his activity to the medical board to see that this behavior follows him. As has been discussed extensively, it doesn't seem like you have any legal grounds to sue, but if you get enough people to complain to the Board they might take it seriously.

Keep in mind this is probably a two way street. If you come after this guy, he might come after you and other ex-residents--you said he would fabricate things on evals, and while these claims may be totally fake, again you're likely looking at a giant headache to try and take this guy down without getting dragged through the muck yourself. Only you can decide if it's worth it.

 

[Burnted_out]

Based on what you're saying, it seems like what you really want to do is report his activity to the medical board to see that this behavior follows him. As has been discussed extensively, it doesn't seem like you have any legal grounds to sue, but if you get enough people to complain to the Board they might take it seriously.

Keep in mind this is probably a two way street. If you come after this guy, he might come after you and other ex-residents--you said he would fabricate things on evals, and while these claims may be totally fake, again you're likely looking at a giant headache to try and take this guy down without getting dragged through the muck yourself. Only you can decide if it's worth it.

If there is no punishment then behavior will recur that’s what I think. I graduated with a squeaky clean record and have never had any action in my record for anythong so he really can’t make up anything about me. The facts do speak for themselves in terms of him having 3 different board actions by the same state, getting fired from residency in the past, and getting an assault charge in addition to being let go from a residency program. That I am not worried about - trust me when I say that it was uncomfortably public in regards to his outing.

 

[Goro]

This is a he-said-she-said. That individual was fired, that’s really the end of the story with regards to the medical board.

I think you’ll find a lack of closure and total absence of satisfaction if you run with this farther. Just leave this guy in the dust where he belongs.

Not quite - it’s not just me. I would agree that if it was just me maybe. This was 30 plus residents and most faculty. Even the dean said that this was one of the worst cases of physician inappropriateness he had seen. Complete sociopath.

I am very frustrated with the situation. I want to let it go but have a hard time finding closure. I don’t think they have been punished enough. Should have been fired and have license removed after he was fired from first residency and certainly after he assaulted someone. What a pig.

I submit that therapy will provide a faster and better means of closure than seeking it through legal action.

 

[AdmiralChz]

This is a riff on the typical SDN advice thread:

Poster: I want to do such and such thing
SDN: Probably bad idea for X and Y, try Z instead
Poster: What do you all know I am doing my original plan I am right!

You seem to be largely ignoring the collective advice here - do what you want, but just be warned it’s a long, painful road for you with minimal benefit.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Whatever you do, don’t buy a device that can make clones of yourself because eventually a rival magician will want to steal your secret. This will end very bad since he had a twin which you could never figure out!

 

[FutureInternist]

I recently graduated from a pretty malignant program. Took boards, have great job close to family so life is going well now. However residency was a nightmare with a number of highly malignant attendings. The ACGME got involved, did an investigation, and one of the attendings got let go, another one is on the way out once a replacement can be found. Some of my classmates have talked about pursuing legal action. I am not certain. On the one hand it would provide some closure on the other it would be exhausting. Just looking for others thoughts.

I would vote for doing something so it lessens chances of others having to live through it.