Lawyer to review contracts

[deleted18755]

Hey guys,

An old friend of mine (finally!) just received an offer. It's mid-April and he was freaking out because he is older with a family and graduates in July with an absolutely absurd level of student debt so he was ready to take anything and sign right away.

I honestly didn't have anybody other than a few friends glance over my contract, but those were different times and I'm in a very friendly and laid back place. He is trying to penetrate into one of the "desirable" locations (although I don't know what's so desirable about two hours north of NYC!). Did any of you who used an attorney (or lawyer? What the heck is the difference anyway?) actually find it to be helpful? He is ready to sign and although at first I said "congrats go for it" now I wonder if the hospital sensed his desperation and threw in some crap that might fly by him but stick out to a lawyer/attorney.

If so, I assume the lawyer should be from the practicing state? How would one find a good lawyer out of town for something so specific as review of a radiation oncology contract or employement agreement? The last thing this guy needs is to fork over a few hundred bucks for some lawyer to spend 30 seconds skimming over the contract.

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[Spiced Meats]

Hey guys,

An old friend of mine (finally!) just received an offer. It's mid-April and he was freaking out because he is older with a family and graduates in July with an absolutely absurd level of student debt so he was ready to take anything and sign right away.

I honestly didn't have anybody other than a few friends glance over my contract, but those were different times and I'm in a very friendly and laid back place. He is trying to penetrate into one of the "desirable" locations (although I don't know what's so desirable about two hours north of NYC!). Did any of you who used an attorney (or lawyer? What the heck is the difference anyway?) actually find it to be helpful? He is ready to sign and although at first I said "congrats go for it" now I wonder if the hospital sensed his desperation and threw in some crap that might fly by him but stick out to a lawyer/attorney.

If so, I assume the lawyer should be from the practicing state? How would one find a good lawyer out of town for something so specific as review of a radiation oncology contract or employement agreement? The last thing this guy needs is to fork over a few hundred bucks for some lawyer to spend 30 seconds skimming over the contract.

I was also looking into a "desirable" location. I would absolutely have a lawyer review a contract. There are small nuances that I just was not able to see on first or fifth glance or had a basis for comparison to know what was within the norm. Also local lawyers will be very facile with the specifics of their local market.
I used Avvo.com - Legal. Easier. to find my lawyer.

 

[Neuronix]

The offers I got as a fresh grad were 100% take it or leave it. Also, if I didn't tell them that I wanted the job immediately on those terms, they would offer it to the next guy.

Even with multiple offers, the response when I attempted to negotiate was "well then it sounds like you have a better offer elsewhere, good luck to you"

 

[deleted18755]

I was also looking into a "desirable" location. I would absolutely have a lawyer review a contract. There are small nuances that I just was not able to see on first or fifth glance or had a basis for comparison to know what was within the norm. Also local lawyers will be very facile with the specifics of their local market.
I used Avvo.com - Legal. Easier. to find my lawyer.

I'm sure that a lawyer in a large market who specializes in these things reviews contracts all the time but I can't imagine that there are lawyers who have reviewed more than one contract every few years in esoteric small fields like ours. Do you mind sharing examples of these small nuances you mentioned? The last thing my friend needs to do is fork over something like $300 for nothing . . . actually on second thought the last thing he needs to do is drop a few hundred bucks just to have the lawyer make some recommendations that he takes back to his potential employer just to get laughed at or have the job given to somebody else.

It's such a shame, this is a very intelligent, well-trained guy but he has basically been begging for work and he is down to the wire (he has less than 3 months of residency left and no job with a huge debt, family, etc). It's not like he is looking for a seven figure salary in Manhatten . . . this is a job in some random hospital system 2+ hours from New York City closer to random has been towns like Scranton and Bington.

 

[medgator]

Hey guys,

An old friend of mine (finally!) just received an offer. It's mid-April and he was freaking out because he is older with a family and graduates in July with an absolutely absurd level of student debt so he was ready to take anything and sign right away.

I honestly didn't have anybody other than a few friends glance over my contract, but those were different times and I'm in a very friendly and laid back place. He is trying to penetrate into one of the "desirable" locations (although I don't know what's so desirable about two hours north of NYC!). Did any of you who used an attorney (or lawyer? What the heck is the difference anyway?) actually find it to be helpful? He is ready to sign and although at first I said "congrats go for it" now I wonder if the hospital sensed his desperation and threw in some crap that might fly by him but stick out to a lawyer/attorney.

If so, I assume the lawyer should be from the practicing state? How would one find a good lawyer out of town for something so specific as review of a radiation oncology contract or employement agreement? The last thing this guy needs is to fork over a few hundred bucks for some lawyer to spend 30 seconds skimming over the contract.

Depends on the contract...if it's a large hospital/group/corporation, prob not a lot of wiggle room for negotiation. If smaller independent/pp group, probably more valuable.

Contract law is totally state dependent, some states allow restrictive covenants/non competes to be enforced (like FL) while others actually prohibit them (CA I believe).

Would make sense in that case to have an attorney that is barred in that specific state review the contract. It would also be a good idea to find someone who specializes in healthcare law/contracts, rather than just a general attorney

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Hey guys,

An old friend of mine (finally!) just received an offer. It's mid-April and he was freaking out because he is older with a family and graduates in July with an absolutely absurd level of student debt so he was ready to take anything and sign right away.

I honestly didn't have anybody other than a few friends glance over my contract, but those were different times and I'm in a very friendly and laid back place. He is trying to penetrate into one of the "desirable" locations (although I don't know what's so desirable about two hours north of NYC!). Did any of you who used an attorney (or lawyer? What the heck is the difference anyway?) actually find it to be helpful? He is ready to sign and although at first I said "congrats go for it" now I wonder if the hospital sensed his desperation and threw in some crap that might fly by him but stick out to a lawyer/attorney.

If so, I assume the lawyer should be from the practicing state? How would one find a good lawyer out of town for something so specific as review of a radiation oncology contract or employement agreement? The last thing this guy needs is to fork over a few hundred bucks for some lawyer to spend 30 seconds skimming over the contract.

Get a lawyer, I got one and they were able to navigate me in and out of sticky waters. Of course you don't expect to change jobs but "**** can hit the fan" and you might need an exit strategy.

 

[Phantom1]

Get a lawyer, I got one and they were able to navigate me in and out of sticky waters. Of course you don't expect to change jobs but "**** can hit the fan" and you might need an exit strategy.

Definitly agree, have an attorney review your contract. You can find lawyers who will review for a flat fee around $300-$400. I think its fair to say that most of the time they wont find anything major, but it will give you peace of mind and protection as well as a third party if anything goes south. If they do happen to find something isn't that money well spent?

Lastly, of course make sure that YOU personally read through every line of your contract as well...

 

[medgator]

I'm sure that a lawyer in a large market who specializes in these things reviews contracts all the time but I can't imagine that there are lawyers who have reviewed more than one contract every few years in esoteric small fields like ours.

Healthcare lawyers see a lot of contracts. Maybe not as many in rad onc, but things like restrictive covenants, liquidated damages, causes for termination etc will show up again and again regardless of specialty.

That's why I think it's very important, if you decide to get a lawyer, to get one who is local/regional and one who is focused on healthcare law. Many of them will know the lay of the land and how actual cases have played out in recent years in the area where you will be practicing.

You had asked about specifics.... well an example in my area would be restrictive covenants, they are enforceable if they are considered to be reasonable.

For example 2 years and 50 mile radius might be considered too burdensome,, but maybe a year and 25 miles not so unreasonable

 

[deleted18755]

Thanks for the input guys. I've personally been in a relatively stable and happy practice (my family and I are perfectly happy living in a small/medium town in the middle of nowhere, which I guess is going to be a requirement for radiation oncology moving forward) and hadn't looked at my contract in years (it turns out I have an "employement agreement" and I don't know if that is just another word for a contract or something less formal). I honestly don't recall having it clearly state that I can be let go basically for any or no reason with 90 day notice. I can't imagine that happening around my neck of the woods but who knows what's in the written offers these days in competitive markets.

Anyway my buddy has been following along and will check out the site above unless anybody knows any specific references for NYS or more specifically whatever you call the part of the southeast area of the state that's north of NYC.

 

[medgator]

I honestly don't recall having it clearly state that I can be let go basically for any or no reason with 90 day notice. I can't imagine that happening around my neck of the woods but who knows what's in the written offers these days in competitive markets.

I think most contracts have clauses for a termination with and without cause .

Cause can be a lot of things like losing your license, losing BC, getting barred from Medicare/Medicaid, committing a felony etc

Without cause is basically anything else, a way for the group to get you out for any reason they wish. The ramifications can be a lot different.... They might pay your tail for example if it's without cause, and they have to give you a longer notice to terminate the contract

 

[fiji128]

For anyone out there looking at a new contract, hire a lawyer who specializes in medical contracts in the state you want to practice! This is a no brainier.

It is well worth the few hundred dollars to have an expert who looks over these things for a living to let you know what kind of deal you are getting. Signing a medical contract is not like downloading the new version of iTunes, if anything goes wrong you will be glad you invested this money upfront.

 

[deleted18755]

For anyone out there looking at a new contract, hire a lawyer who specializes in medical contracts in the state you want to practice! This is a no brainier.

It is well worth the few hundred dollars to have an expert who looks over these things for a living to let you know what kind of deal you are getting. Signing a medical contract is not like downloading the new version of iTunes, if anything goes wrong you will be glad you invested this money upfront.

What is the best way to find an honest lawyer who knows what he is doing? The last thing somebody with crippling debt and blood sucking old radiation oncologists and hospital administrators needs is a lawyer who has no idea what he is doing taking $400 to glance over a contract in two minutes and giving him a false sense of security ... know what I mean?

 

[fiji128]

What is the best way to find an honest lawyer who knows what he is doing? The last thing somebody with crippling debt and blood sucking old radiation oncologists and hospital administrators needs is a lawyer who has no idea what he is doing taking $400 to glance over a contract in two minutes and giving him a false sense of security ... know what I mean?

I found a great one just through a google search. He went through my contract with me line by line. Key is finding someone who specializes in physicians contracts in the state you want to practice. The lawyers don't really make their money be reviewing these contracts they make their money on the other end when things go wrong and contracts need to be enforced, at least that's what my guy told me.

 

[seper]

I'd also make sure your lawyer is not from the same company/group as the employer's lawyer. With that in mind, perhaps it's best yo hire your hometown's lawyer instead of one at the destination.

 

[medgator]

I'd also make sure your lawyer is not from the same company/group as the employer's lawyer. With that in mind, perhaps it's best yo hire your hometown's lawyer instead of one at the destination.

Technically, a scrupulous lawyer is supposed to inform you of a potential conflict of interest before you hire him/her. I think it can become a legal issue later if the lawyer tried to hide that fact

Always good to ask though upfront in the process

 

[Krukenberg]

I'd also make sure your lawyer is not from the same company/group as the employer's lawyer. With that in mind, perhaps it's best yo hire your hometown's lawyer instead of one at the destination.

Only thing I'd say is that a lawyer who practices where your employer is based knows what is "customary and usual" for physician contracts in that area. Your local lawyer wouldn't have that knowledge


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