Programs that could be candidates for contracting/closing

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Hard to imagine why you’d add all your new spots in 1 class other than for cheap labor/scut.

When it happened at vanderbilt, the current wash u chair was the chair, so I'll leave the motivation up to you given the history since. On the other hand, like every resident there was doing holman at the time, so hard to say.

---

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[thecarbonionangle]

When it happened at vanderbilt, the current wash u chair was the chair, so I'll leave the motivation up to you given the history since. On the other hand, like every resident there was doing holman at the time, so hard to say.

Ah yes, the we need to collude and lower the pay of rad oncs by expanding the field thinking out loud guy? The run a hit job on your own faculty guy?Fantastic guy!

 

[bix]

My name is Lewis Cooper, and I have been the program director at MUSC since January 2020 (about a year). It has been brought to my attention that there is a lot of discussion about our program on SDN and the spreadsheet. Please allow me to make a few comments.
- First, I fully recognize that our program has had areas that we needed to improve. This was not the fault of previous residents.
- As program director, I have been committed to ensuring that resident education is the top priority and is ingrained in our culture. We have made a lot of changes and continue to work to improve the program. I would not continue in this role if I felt that I was not supported.
- We have completely revamped our didactics. We have ensured that that time is truly protected and have mandated attending participation. The feedback that we have from current residents is that this is working well.
- We have laid out guidelines for attending-resident interactions and worked to ensure there are clear and realistic expectations for each rotation and that teaching is prioritized. We have had positive feedback from the current residents in this area as well.
- I have worked to incorporate feedback from the residents, including those who have transferred (one was to pursue another specialty), to make changes and improve the program.
- At least 9 months of elective time is guaranteed and faculty go uncovered. There is no cross coverage.
- We have another attending joining our faculty in February.
- Our residents have never had problems getting the jobs they wanted. In fact they are well sought after for the depth of their clinical experience.
- I have not been deleting any negative comments on the spreadsheet and none of the other attendings even know it exists/check on it. I do not know that any resident is deleting comments on the spreadsheet either, and I would certainly not condone it.

I am willing to chat offline if anyone would like to discuss this further ([email protected]).

 

[FrostyHammer]

My name is Lewis Cooper, and I have been the program director at MUSC since January 2020 (about a year). It has been brought to my attention that there is a lot of discussion about our program on SDN and the spreadsheet. Please allow me to make a few comments.
- First, I fully recognize that our program has had areas that we needed to improve. This was not the fault of previous residents.
- As program director, I have been committed to ensuring that resident education is the top priority and is ingrained in our culture. We have made a lot of changes and continue to work to improve the program. I would not continue in this role if I felt that I was not supported.
- We have completely revamped our didactics. We have ensured that that time is truly protected and have mandated attending participation. The feedback that we have from current residents is that this is working well.
- We have laid out guidelines for attending-resident interactions and worked to ensure there are clear and realistic expectations for each rotation and that teaching is prioritized. We have had positive feedback from the current residents in this area as well.
- I have worked to incorporate feedback from the residents, including those who have transferred (one was to pursue another specialty), to make changes and improve the program.
- At least 9 months of elective time is guaranteed and faculty go uncovered. There is no cross coverage.
- We have another attending joining our faculty in February.
- Our residents have never had problems getting the jobs they wanted. In fact they are well sought after for the depth of their clinical experience.
- I have not been deleting any negative comments on the spreadsheet and none of the other attendings even know it exists/check on it. I do not know that any resident is deleting comments on the spreadsheet either, and I would certainly not condone it.

I am willing to chat offline if anyone would like to discuss this further ([email protected]).

For the sake of transparency in a public forum, if your program doesn't fill through the match this year, will you pledge to not SOAP?

 

[drewdog1973]

Nice to meet ya, Dr. Cooper. It’s always better to actively engage, rather than name call or ignore this resource.

He’s junior faculty PD. Doesn’t matter what he promises on SDN, Twitter, or whatever. Won’t be his decision if the chair wants the program filled.

 

[RickyScott]

I am sure the program director is a nice guy and made the curriculum better. The state of the field, however, is such that whoever graduates from musc in 5 years will absolutely have a very difficult time finding employment.

 

[scarbrtj]

I am sure the program director is a nice guy and made the curriculum better. The state of the field, however, is such that whoever graduates from musc in 5 years will absolutely have a very difficult time finding employment.

All the people at MUSC are "good." The former chairman was a very good guy. MUSC is a BMOC nationally in some specialties like GI and CT surg; Sabin (polio) was at MUSC. Time was, whether your rad onc program was nationally illustrious was irrelevant. Nowadays, and over the next five years as you say, it could become super-relevant. Mostly because you need to go to a honking huge program in hopes they'll take you in for a job at residency's end. The main worry I'd have about doing an MUSC residency is that there's a low future likelihood they'd take me or my co-resident in for a job 5 years from now (because they're small).

 

[fiji128]

List of programs that should be marked for permanent closure based off of comments from the Reddit spread sheet this year (also according to the info on the spread sheet Columbia and Duke looking to expand resident number):


UC Irvine: "... didn't fill in match last year // very small program with not a great reputation, residency overexpansion. this program should not exist ... the chair is NOT regarded highly at all, you've been warned. has a lot of personal history that is not good X2"


Kansas: "Posted on ASTRO job board for residents HAHA. Historically one of the waekest programs and they clearly stated desire for more residents for clinical coverage. // This is a joke of a program. // very weak research and poor job placement. Perhaps the biggest joke of a program. They advertised on ASTRO job board to get more residents and actively thinking about expansion of residency during a time of decreased job prospects."


University of Louisville: "Not a great program by reputation. ... Just want cheap labor//No volume. Large private hospital in town has almost put them out of business. Volume goes down year after year."


North Shore LIJ: "Another program that shouldn't exist - residency overexpansion for cheap labor"


Columbia: "Program has gone unmatched in recent years due to issues with program leadership and malignant reputation; hopefully with the new chair these will be less of an issue.//Lisa Kachnic does not believe there are any job market concerns. In fact she openly mocks it. // When the ABR failed 50% of rising PGY-5 in either physics or rad bio a few years back, Kachnic blamed poor residents at small programs despite those programs doing just fine the year prior and after that debacle // Agree with concerns about chair - Lisa Kachnic has her head in the sand and blames residents for the woes in the field while trying to expand her residency for cheap labor // also they are expanding spots?? in this market and in new york which has 10 programs? this is a joke // why the hell would anyone go here when MSK is in the same city?"


Oklahoma: "More residents than faculty...overtraining to the max. // Program that should be shut down // research is retrospective chart reviews and "trials" that are meaningless (attendings just write trials to check a box but won't change care)."


Allegany: "Not a real academic center. Use residents for scut // another program that shoulnd't exist"


Thomas Jefferson: "Multiple references on the interview spreadsheet about this program being a bad place to be, hints of that were easily seen during the interview day -- Interview impression. The Chair is "off putting". Interviewers definately did not read app. Seemed not to care, was working on something else during interview. Getting bad vibes. // SOAPed twice in two years"


Pittsburg: "Previously fired a senior resident. Some say deserved firing, others say why wait until resident almost graduated. Chair is known clown bully // Not great rep for Chair nationally and attendings are on a very RVU driven model which is not great for residents"


South Carolina: "Ongoing lawsuit with former resident for discrimination. 3 residents have transferred out recently. STAY AWAY!! Also, MUSC attendings are actively deleting negative comments. BEWARE. // << speculating who's deleting. unncessary//This is a program that shouldn't be matching/should not exist. Residents are here for clinical coverage. Very poor job placement. At least 2-3 residents have transferred recently. Stop deleting the cons from MUSC, applicants will take notice. This is a really small program that shouldn't have residents. Research is all retrospective chart reviews. Job placement is pretty terrible. Do not get a full research year. Clinical coverage is prioritized above all.//Residents that don't get fired leave on their own. "


Tennessee: "This is terrible program, very weak. Faculty are not actually acdaemic and program should shut down. No research. Heavy clinical load. // bad job placement"


Baylor: "Program should be closed down//Historically a mess. Very few faculty. They count the VA and private practice faculty in order to remain open // Lots of misinformation going on here- the main BCM faculty see patients both at the county hospital and the private baylor clinic site soon to move into new cancer center, there are 7 main BCM faculty + another 5 at the VA and 2 adjunct at MDA//They should update the website then. They have 5 listed at main campus and one of those is a "fellow". Was it misinformation when nearly all the faculty left a few years ago?"


West Virginia: "Stay way from thsi program unless you want to live in the middle of nowhere at a program that no one respects // Bad job placement...they can't even sniff elite jobs // Program should not exist. Residency overexpansion. That the chair is ASTRO prez is hilarious and will use this to try to expand residency spots. One of weakest programs in country. // Agreed, this program is a joke, no real research is done, all retrospective chart reviews

 

[Neuronix]

Stanford also getting quite a beating on there.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

List of programs that should be marked for permanent closure based off of comments from the Reddit spread sheet this year (also according to the info on the spread sheet Columbia and Duke looking to expand resident number):


UC Irvine: "... didn't fill in match last year // very small program with not a great reputation, residency overexpansion. this program should not exist ... the chair is NOT regarded highly at all, you've been warned. has a lot of personal history that is not good X2"


Kansas: "Posted on ASTRO job board for residents HAHA. Historically one of the waekest programs and they clearly stated desire for more residents for clinical coverage. // This is a joke of a program. // very weak research and poor job placement. Perhaps the biggest joke of a program. They advertised on ASTRO job board to get more residents and actively thinking about expansion of residency during a time of decreased job prospects."


University of Louisville: "Not a great program by reputation. ... Just want cheap labor//No volume. Large private hospital in town has almost put them out of business. Volume goes down year after year."


North Shore LIJ: "Another program that shouldn't exist - residency overexpansion for cheap labor"


Columbia: "Program has gone unmatched in recent years due to issues with program leadership and malignant reputation; hopefully with the new chair these will be less of an issue.//Lisa Kachnic does not believe there are any job market concerns. In fact she openly mocks it. // When the ABR failed 50% of rising PGY-5 in either physics or rad bio a few years back, Kachnic blamed poor residents at small programs despite those programs doing just fine the year prior and after that debacle // Agree with concerns about chair - Lisa Kachnic has her head in the sand and blames residents for the woes in the field while trying to expand her residency for cheap labor // also they are expanding spots?? in this market and in new york which has 10 programs? this is a joke // why the hell would anyone go here when MSK is in the same city?"


Oklahoma: "More residents than faculty...overtraining to the max. // Program that should be shut down // research is retrospective chart reviews and "trials" that are meaningless (attendings just write trials to check a box but won't change care)."


Allegany: "Not a real academic center. Use residents for scut // another program that shoulnd't exist"


Thomas Jefferson: "Multiple references on the interview spreadsheet about this program being a bad place to be, hints of that were easily seen during the interview day -- Interview impression. The Chair is "off putting". Interviewers definately did not read app. Seemed not to care, was working on something else during interview. Getting bad vibes. // SOAPed twice in two years"


Pittsburg: "Previously fired a senior resident. Some say deserved firing, others say why wait until resident almost graduated. Chair is known clown bully // Not great rep for Chair nationally and attendings are on a very RVU driven model which is not great for residents"


South Carolina: "Ongoing lawsuit with former resident for discrimination. 3 residents have transferred out recently. STAY AWAY!! Also, MUSC attendings are actively deleting negative comments. BEWARE. // << speculating who's deleting. unncessary//This is a program that shouldn't be matching/should not exist. Residents are here for clinical coverage. Very poor job placement. At least 2-3 residents have transferred recently. Stop deleting the cons from MUSC, applicants will take notice. This is a really small program that shouldn't have residents. Research is all retrospective chart reviews. Job placement is pretty terrible. Do not get a full research year. Clinical coverage is prioritized above all.//Residents that don't get fired leave on their own. "


Tennessee: "This is terrible program, very weak. Faculty are not actually acdaemic and program should shut down. No research. Heavy clinical load. // bad job placement"


Baylor: "Program should be closed down//Historically a mess. Very few faculty. They count the VA and private practice faculty in order to remain open // Lots of misinformation going on here- the main BCM faculty see patients both at the county hospital and the private baylor clinic site soon to move into new cancer center, there are 7 main BCM faculty + another 5 at the VA and 2 adjunct at MDA//They should update the website then. They have 5 listed at main campus and one of those is a "fellow". Was it misinformation when nearly all the faculty left a few years ago?"


West Virginia: "Stay way from thsi program unless you want to live in the middle of nowhere at a program that no one respects // Bad job placement...they can't even sniff elite jobs // Program should not exist. Residency overexpansion. That the chair is ASTRO prez is hilarious and will use this to try to expand residency spots. One of weakest programs in country. // Agreed, this program is a joke, no real research is done, all retrospective chart reviews

Excellent list. There are more but good list of clown places. Columbia is definitely expanding, got multiple PMs about it. Duke is not yet confirmed.

 

[sloh]

List of programs that should be marked for permanent closure based off of comments from the Reddit spread sheet this year (also according to the info on the spread sheet Columbia and Duke looking to expand resident number):


UC Irvine: "... didn't fill in match last year // very small program with not a great reputation, residency overexpansion. this program should not exist ... the chair is NOT regarded highly at all, you've been warned. has a lot of personal history that is not good X2"


Kansas: "Posted on ASTRO job board for residents HAHA. Historically one of the waekest programs and they clearly stated desire for more residents for clinical coverage. // This is a joke of a program. // very weak research and poor job placement. Perhaps the biggest joke of a program. They advertised on ASTRO job board to get more residents and actively thinking about expansion of residency during a time of decreased job prospects."


University of Louisville: "Not a great program by reputation. ... Just want cheap labor//No volume. Large private hospital in town has almost put them out of business. Volume goes down year after year."


North Shore LIJ: "Another program that shouldn't exist - residency overexpansion for cheap labor"


Columbia: "Program has gone unmatched in recent years due to issues with program leadership and malignant reputation; hopefully with the new chair these will be less of an issue.//Lisa Kachnic does not believe there are any job market concerns. In fact she openly mocks it. // When the ABR failed 50% of rising PGY-5 in either physics or rad bio a few years back, Kachnic blamed poor residents at small programs despite those programs doing just fine the year prior and after that debacle // Agree with concerns about chair - Lisa Kachnic has her head in the sand and blames residents for the woes in the field while trying to expand her residency for cheap labor // also they are expanding spots?? in this market and in new york which has 10 programs? this is a joke // why the hell would anyone go here when MSK is in the same city?"


Oklahoma: "More residents than faculty...overtraining to the max. // Program that should be shut down // research is retrospective chart reviews and "trials" that are meaningless (attendings just write trials to check a box but won't change care)."


Allegany: "Not a real academic center. Use residents for scut // another program that shoulnd't exist"


Thomas Jefferson: "Multiple references on the interview spreadsheet about this program being a bad place to be, hints of that were easily seen during the interview day -- Interview impression. The Chair is "off putting". Interviewers definately did not read app. Seemed not to care, was working on something else during interview. Getting bad vibes. // SOAPed twice in two years"


Pittsburg: "Previously fired a senior resident. Some say deserved firing, others say why wait until resident almost graduated. Chair is known clown bully // Not great rep for Chair nationally and attendings are on a very RVU driven model which is not great for residents"


South Carolina: "Ongoing lawsuit with former resident for discrimination. 3 residents have transferred out recently. STAY AWAY!! Also, MUSC attendings are actively deleting negative comments. BEWARE. // /This is a program that shouldn't be matching/should not exist. Residents are here for clinical coverage. Very poor job placement. At least 2-3 residents have transferred recently. Stop deleting the cons from MUSC, applicants will take notice. This is a really small program that shouldn't have residents. Research is all retrospective chart reviews. Job placement is pretty terrible. Do not get a full research year. Clinical coverage is prioritized above all.//Residents that don't get fired leave on their own. "


Tennessee: "This is terrible program, very weak. Faculty are not actually acdaemic and program should shut down. No research. Heavy clinical load. // bad job placement"


Baylor: "Program should be closed down//Historically a mess. Very few faculty. They count the VA and private practice faculty in order to remain open // Lots of misinformation going on here- the main BCM faculty see patients both at the county hospital and the private baylor clinic site soon to move into new cancer center, there are 7 main BCM faculty + another 5 at the VA and 2 adjunct at MDA//They should update the website then. They have 5 listed at main campus and one of those is a "fellow". Was it misinformation when nearly all the faculty left a few years ago?"


West Virginia: "Stay way from thsi program unless you want to live in the middle of nowhere at a program that no one respects // Bad job placement...they can't even sniff elite jobs // Program should not exist. Residency overexpansion. That the chair is ASTRO prez is hilarious and will use this to try to expand residency spots. One of weakest programs in country. // Agreed, this program is a joke, no real research is done, all retrospective chart reviews

Man....some big names here.

UCI (if you’re from Cali), Columbia, Baylor, Pittsburgh, Thomas Jefferson. So much for “prestige.”

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Man....some big names here.

UCI (if you’re from Cali), Columbia, Baylor, Pittsburgh, Thomas Jefferson. So much for “prestige.”

Some of these “prestigious” places (see cornell “ivy” program being shut down) can be pretty bad because they are often very resistant to change (“institution has a great name”), the location has always favored them (“they will continue to come because of top city”). This combination leads to putrid stagnancy. Look back at some of these places more than 10 years ago and they were still bad.

i want to add NYP Methodist. This is a terrible place. Run down hospital. It is a private practice known for nepotism. Should absolutely be shut down.

Mississippi- VJ is a known “nice guy” but terrible place. I know the state took off the confederate flag from their state flag and put in a magnolia flower, but not a lot of blooming going on at this place if ya catch my drift

darthmouth- unnecessary cheap labour expansion. Another “ivy” place like cornell trying to use “instutional prestige” to ram through something nobody wanted or needed

 

[RickyScott]

Some of these “prestigious” places (see cornell “ivy” program being shut down) can be pretty bad because they are often very resistant to change (“institution has a great name”), the location has always favored them (“they will continue to come because of top city”). This combination leads to putrid stagnancy. Look back at some of these places more than 10 years ago and they were still bad.

i want to add NYP Methodist. This is a terrible place. Run down hospital. It is a private practice known for nepotism. Should absolutely be shut down.

Mississippi- VJ is a known “nice guy” but terrible place. I know the state took off the confederate flag from their state flag and put in a magnolia flower, but not a lot of blooming going on at this place if ya catch my drift

darthmouth- unnecessary cheap labour expansion. Another “ivy” place like cornell trying to use “instutional prestige” to ram through something nobody wanted or needed

Can someone comment on how many patients Columbia has on treatment at main facility in Harlem. When I was applying 15 years ago, it was shockingly low.

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Some of these “prestigious” places (see cornell “ivy” program being shut down) can be pretty bad because they are often very resistant to change (“institution has a great name”), the location has always favored them (“they will continue to come because of top city”). This combination leads to putrid stagnancy. Look back at some of these places more than 10 years ago and they were still bad.

i want to add NYP Methodist. This is a terrible place. Run down hospital. It is a private practice known for nepotism. Should absolutely be shut down.

Mississippi- VJ is a known “nice guy” but terrible place. I know the state took off the confederate flag from their state flag and put in a magnolia flower, but not a lot of blooming going on at this place if ya catch my drift

darthmouth- unnecessary cheap labour expansion. Another “ivy” place like cornell trying to use “instutional prestige” to ram through something nobody wanted or needed

"putrid stagnancy"

You're a master at describing this

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Miami: i know place has issues. Residents have struggled to get jobs in the past. Some have ended up literally in middle of nowhere, easily verifyable by a google search. Some have been unemployed and doing locums for months, recently. In talking to alumni, mixed stories of faculty not being there for them come job search and mixed reviews about teaching. Beware.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

"putrid stagnancy"

You're a master at describing this

I know a good swamp. the thicker the better

 

[RickyScott]

All the people at MUSC are "good." The former chairman was a very good guy. MUSC is a BMOC nationally in some specialties like GI and CT surg; Sabin (polio) was at MUSC. Time was, whether your rad onc program was nationally illustrious was irrelevant. Nowadays, and over the next five years as you say, it could become super-relevant. Mostly because you need to go to a honking huge program in hopes they'll take you in for a job at residency's end. The main worry I'd have about doing an MUSC residency is that there's a low future likelihood they'd take me or my co-resident in for a job 5 years from now (because they're small).

totally agree. When I applied, I didnt really care about the national reputation of programs, because job market was great. Turned down interview at Wash U at time because of location and malignant reputation (they werent even in the match) It gives me heartburn when I hear about PDs lying to applicants that the job market and geography have always been an issue in radonc. It hasnt- and that is the whole reason the field became so desirable 10 years ago. In the past, geography was enough for MUSC, Columbia, Cornell, UCI.

Also re: "you need to go to a honking huge program in hopes they'll take you in for a job at residency's end.": cant imagine the backstabbing and pressure this will cause at bigger programs where they simply can not hire every resident: 4 years of starring in the radonc apprentice

 

[fiji128]

Stanford also getting quite a beating on the

Some of these “prestigious” places (see cornell “ivy” program being shut down) can be pretty bad because they are often very resistant to change (“institution has a great name”), the location has always favored them (“they will continue to come because of top city”). This combination leads to putrid stagnancy. Look back at some of these places more than 10 years ago and they were still bad.

i want to add NYP Methodist. This is a terrible place. Run down hospital. It is a private practice known for nepotism. Should absolutely be shut down.

Mississippi- VJ is a known “nice guy” but terrible place. I know the state took off the confederate flag from their state flag and put in a magnolia flower, but not a lot of blooming going on at this place if ya catch my drift

darthmouth- unnecessary cheap labour expansion. Another “ivy” place like cornell trying to use “instutional prestige” to ram through something nobody wanted or needed

I only included places with specific and overwhelmingly negative comments on the spread sheet. But ya there are other places out there that are just as bad. They know who they are!

 

[Neuronix]

I only included places with specific and overwhelmingly negative comments on the spread sheet. But ya there are other places out there that are just as bad. They know who they are!

What I find bizzare about the reddit/google spreadsheet is that when I check it, the next week often times what I read has been deleted or replaced with something else entirely. I think people from negatively discussed programs are just deleting or editing the opinions. It's odd to me that anyone would want to post on there when it could just be deleted totally anonymously by someone who doesn't like what you wrote.

 

[taserlaser]

What I find bizzare about the reddit/google spreadsheet is that when I check it, the next week often times what I read has been deleted or replaced with something else entirely. I think people from negatively discussed programs are just deleting or editing the opinions. It's odd to me that anyone would want to post on there when it could just be deleted totally anonymously by someone who doesn't like what you wrote.

something something an actual use for blockchain

as the youngins say, sounds a bit ’sus’

 

[seper]

That reddit spreadsheet is suspect. Use that info carefully. Call graduating residents to verify (and get more dirt on programs I'll tell you). Generally, programs offering job to their own residents is a good sign.

 

[fiji128]

That reddit spreadsheet is suspect. Use that info carefully. Call graduating residents to verify (and get more dirt on programs I'll tell you). Generally, programs offering job to their own residents is a good sign.

Ya its an open document that anyone can edit so that definitely can lead to sketchiness and shenanigans. However, overall I'd say the sentiment expressed regarding various places is pretty much true.

 

[FrostyHammer]

List of programs that should be marked for permanent closure based off of comments from the Reddit spread sheet this year (also according to the info on the spread sheet Columbia and Duke looking to expand resident number):


UC Irvine: "... didn't fill in match last year // very small program with not a great reputation, residency overexpansion. this program should not exist ... the chair is NOT regarded highly at all, you've been warned. has a lot of personal history that is not good X2"


Kansas: "Posted on ASTRO job board for residents HAHA. Historically one of the waekest programs and they clearly stated desire for more residents for clinical coverage. // This is a joke of a program. // very weak research and poor job placement. Perhaps the biggest joke of a program. They advertised on ASTRO job board to get more residents and actively thinking about expansion of residency during a time of decreased job prospects."


University of Louisville: "Not a great program by reputation. ... Just want cheap labor//No volume. Large private hospital in town has almost put them out of business. Volume goes down year after year."


North Shore LIJ: "Another program that shouldn't exist - residency overexpansion for cheap labor"


Columbia: "Program has gone unmatched in recent years due to issues with program leadership and malignant reputation; hopefully with the new chair these will be less of an issue.//Lisa Kachnic does not believe there are any job market concerns. In fact she openly mocks it. // When the ABR failed 50% of rising PGY-5 in either physics or rad bio a few years back, Kachnic blamed poor residents at small programs despite those programs doing just fine the year prior and after that debacle // Agree with concerns about chair - Lisa Kachnic has her head in the sand and blames residents for the woes in the field while trying to expand her residency for cheap labor // also they are expanding spots?? in this market and in new york which has 10 programs? this is a joke // why the hell would anyone go here when MSK is in the same city?"


Oklahoma: "More residents than faculty...overtraining to the max. // Program that should be shut down // research is retrospective chart reviews and "trials" that are meaningless (attendings just write trials to check a box but won't change care)."


Allegany: "Not a real academic center. Use residents for scut // another program that shoulnd't exist"


Thomas Jefferson: "Multiple references on the interview spreadsheet about this program being a bad place to be, hints of that were easily seen during the interview day -- Interview impression. The Chair is "off putting". Interviewers definately did not read app. Seemed not to care, was working on something else during interview. Getting bad vibes. // SOAPed twice in two years"


Pittsburg: "Previously fired a senior resident. Some say deserved firing, others say why wait until resident almost graduated. Chair is known clown bully // Not great rep for Chair nationally and attendings are on a very RVU driven model which is not great for residents"


South Carolina: "Ongoing lawsuit with former resident for discrimination. 3 residents have transferred out recently. STAY AWAY!! Also, MUSC attendings are actively deleting negative comments. BEWARE. // << speculating who's deleting. unncessary//This is a program that shouldn't be matching/should not exist. Residents are here for clinical coverage. Very poor job placement. At least 2-3 residents have transferred recently. Stop deleting the cons from MUSC, applicants will take notice. This is a really small program that shouldn't have residents. Research is all retrospective chart reviews. Job placement is pretty terrible. Do not get a full research year. Clinical coverage is prioritized above all.//Residents that don't get fired leave on their own. "


Tennessee: "This is terrible program, very weak. Faculty are not actually acdaemic and program should shut down. No research. Heavy clinical load. // bad job placement"


Baylor: "Program should be closed down//Historically a mess. Very few faculty. They count the VA and private practice faculty in order to remain open // Lots of misinformation going on here- the main BCM faculty see patients both at the county hospital and the private baylor clinic site soon to move into new cancer center, there are 7 main BCM faculty + another 5 at the VA and 2 adjunct at MDA//They should update the website then. They have 5 listed at main campus and one of those is a "fellow". Was it misinformation when nearly all the faculty left a few years ago?"


West Virginia: "Stay way from thsi program unless you want to live in the middle of nowhere at a program that no one respects // Bad job placement...they can't even sniff elite jobs // Program should not exist. Residency overexpansion. That the chair is ASTRO prez is hilarious and will use this to try to expand residency spots. One of weakest programs in country. // Agreed, this program is a joke, no real research is done, all retrospective chart reviews

This list is totally on point. Baylor, Allegany, LIJ, MUSC, and Columbia are possibly the 5 worst programs in the nation. Whoever even applies to any of these 5 (or anyone on your excellent "Dirty Dozen" list, for that matter) has got to do some serious re-thinking of their life...

BTW, I assume from the MUSC PD's lack of response at my SOAP comment above that the answer to my question was a "no". As a result they cement a spot on my "Fab Five" list above.

 

[Neuronix]

This list is totally on point. Baylor, Allegany, LIJ, MUSC, and Columbia are possibly the 5 worst programs in the nation. Whoever even applies to any of these 5 (or anyone on your excellent "Dirty Dozen" list, for that matter) has got to do some serious re-thinking of their life...

BTW, I assume from the MUSC PD's lack of response at my SOAP comment above that the answer to my question was a "no". As a result they cement a spot on my "Fab Five" list above.

It's a common practice over the years to post bomb sdn for self-promotional reasons and never reply to questions or PMs. We've had many guest stars like this over time. I've considered deleting such self-promotional posts as spam. Any thoughts on that?

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

It's a common practice over the years to post bomb sdn for self-promotional reasons and never reply to questions or PMs. We've had many guest stars like this over time. I've considered deleting such self-promotional posts as spam. Any thoughts on that?

I dunno I sort of like it as a "historical record" - SDN is the antithesis of the Google (Reddit) Spreadsheet, where things can be destroyed/erased. Here, we have a semi-permanent record of RadOnc "pop culture" over the last 20 years, warts and all.

I generally want my warts to get a BED>30, but that's just me.

 

[drewdog1973]

Agree with keeping the record. It's their loss for not responding.

 

[medgator]

Ya its an open document that anyone can edit so that definitely can lead to sketchiness and shenanigans. However, overall I'd say the sentiment expressed regarding various places is pretty much true.

Exactly why SDN >>>> reddit/Google spreadsheet >>>> radoncrocks Twitter 💩

 

[scarbrtj]

It's a common practice over the years to post bomb sdn for self-promotional reasons and never reply to questions or PMs. We've had many guest stars like this over time. I've considered deleting such self-promotional posts as spam. Any thoughts on that?

Let’s never censor. Except if we’re plotting survivals. There’s a line some famous guy wrote one time that went “thou protest too much methinks.” So let them come and protest. It pegs my BS meter a bit. I enjoy that.

I generally want my warts to get a BED>30, but that's just me.

Anybody treating warts? There’s a lot of refractory plantar warts in the world that the podiatrists give up on after a while.

 

[metview]

This list is totally on point. Baylor, Allegany, LIJ, MUSC, and Columbia are possibly the 5 worst programs in the nation. Whoever even applies to any of these 5 (or anyone on your excellent "Dirty Dozen" list, for that matter) has got to do some serious re-thinking of their life...

BTW, I assume from the MUSC PD's lack of response at my SOAP comment above that the answer to my question was a "no". As a result they cement a spot on my "Fab Five" list above.

Let's not forget NY Presby Methodist and Miami. These are poor programs. NY presby is arguably the worst in the nation.

 

[medgator]

Let's not forget NY Presby Methodist and Miami. These are poor programs. NY presby is arguably the worst in the nation.

Would agree, that bottom 5 list is missing the worst of all imo NYP. Programs like downstate and Miami, while not bottom 5 material are pretty mediocre places to train, esp in this day and age

 

[RickyScott]

Don’t know much about the actual program at Miami, but they do have some good faculty. Not in same ball park as West Virginia, Arkansas, or even Columbia, although Job market is becoming so horrible that separating them may not matter.

Also should point out- consider what it would be like to be junior faculty under Lisa kachinic, Sylvia formenti, bill regime, Adam dicker? Those Lucky enough to snag a rare junior faculty position have not struck gold. Whatever you love about this field will be snuffed out by a meddling autocrat with a personality disorder.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Miami: i know place has issues. Residents have struggled to get jobs in the past. Some have ended up literally in middle of nowhere, easily verifyable by a google search. Some have been unemployed and doing locums for months, recently. In talking to alumni, mixed stories of faculty not being there for them come job search and mixed reviews about teaching. Beware.

Miami is not a good place to train if you are looking for a place to go go to where resident education and success is a priority. The residents do get to “evaluate” the faculty but one cannot ignore the serious issues of a system that uses residents for cheap labor and pumps out poor job placement, unemployed,underemployed locums, and unhappy/lukewarm opinions about their time there. It is a place which gets by based on location plus the allure of technology to attract people. It is not a good residency experience. As GWB said, “is our children learning?” that is the sole purpose of a residency program.

Definitely a low tier place to avoid. Beware.

man what a beautiful day to get some chinese food today! Heading to a pond to eat me some duck. Happy holidays,folks!

 

[Krukenberg]

Don’t know much about the actual program at Miami, but they do have some good faculty. Not in same ball park as West Virginia, Arkansas, or even Columbia, although Job market is becoming so horrible that separating them may not matter.

Also should point out- consider what it would be like to be junior faculty under Lisa kachinic, Sylvia formenti, bill regime, Adam dicker? Those Lucky enough to snag a rare junior faculty position have not struck gold. Whatever you love about this field will be snuffed out by a meddling autocrat with a personality disorder.

yea this is the first time I’ve ever seen Miami on a list like this. Is that based on anyone’s personal testimonial? Can’t just casually throw around names without any basis

 

[drewdog1973]

Casually throwing around names is fundamental to this forum. You may get reported for even considering that is a problem!!

 

[drewdog1973]

yea this is the first time I’ve ever seen Miami on a list like this. Is that based on anyone’s personal testimonial? Can’t just casually throw around names without any basis

What’s your grievances with Regine? Seems like a decent guy to me. His Residents seemed to have liked him.

 

[medgator]

What’s your grievances with Regine? Seems like a decent guy to me. His Residents seemed to have liked him.

Regine is still at Maryland last I checked?

Department of Radiation Oncology | University of Maryland School of Medicine

www.medschool.umaryland.edu

 

[RickyScott]

What’s your grievances with Regine? Seems like a decent guy to me. His Residents seemed to have liked him.

Faculty used to leave en mass on regular basis. Talked to a few and he is tough to work for, although most respect him.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Speaking generally, a program which offers a significant portion of their training at a county hospital will often offer a subpar residency experience. This is the case from west to east coast in our field if you look into it. This means tons of scut, low respect for trainees, working with bad nurses and support staff which are underpaid and unhappy. You will learn to get records and take copies quite well. The residents are very important for the running of the clinic and the circling of the wheel.

Now let us take a step back to a bigger issue. There is a lot of lore about a county hospital being a “great” place to train in the house of medicine. It is a great place to do a craniotomy with minimal faculty supervision, run an OR on your own, suture a laceration even though you have no idea what you are doing because that poor disadvantaged racial and socioeconomic minority has nowhere else to go. This goes right back to racist roots of medicine and why many people distrust our motives in society within certain groups.

there will always be people in our field who will not be happy by anything but self doxing, absolute reveal of sources with names and lives and careers ruined otherwise they will exclaim “where is the evidence”? You can decide what to believe or not and who is a plant for what agenda. All i can do is share what I know. Let the cards fall where they do! I will continue to call spades, spades.

 

[metview]

Isn't it crazy how senior "leaders", those that trained 20 yrs ago, got into rad onc when it was joke and likely couldn't match into anything else? Were they anything more than technicians? Just 2 field and 4 field box everything. These same ppl are making all of the decisions about the future of rad onc and it seems like its going back to how it was when they got in--low quality applicants who couldn't get into any other specialty, DOs, FMGs, and other specialty rejects.

 

[seper]

Speaking generally, a program which offers a significant portion of their training at a county hospital will often offer a subpar residency experience. This is the case from west to east coast in our field if you look into it. This means tons of scut, low respect for trainees, working with bad nurses and support staff which are underpaid and unhappy. You will learn to get records and take copies quite well. The residents are very important for the running of the clinic and the circling of the wheel.

Now let us take a step back to a bigger issue. There is a lot of lore about a county hospital being a “great” place to train in the house of medicine. It is a great place to do a craniotomy with minimal faculty supervision, run an OR on your own, suture a laceration even though you have no idea what you are doing because that poor disadvantaged racial and socioeconomic minority has nowhere else to go. This goes right back to racist roots of medicine and why many people distrust our motives in society within certain groups.

there will always be people in our field who will not be happy by anything but self doxing, absolute reveal of sources with names and lives and careers ruined otherwise they will exclaim “where is the evidence”? You can decide what to believe or not and who is a plant for what agenda. All i can do is share what I know. Let the cards fall where they do! I will continue to call spades, spades.

Agree, "county / charity" hospital is not an ideal place to train RadOncs.
> 90% of our graduates will practice in much more controlled environments.
They will never have to set up a lung field on a LINAC on Xmas day.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Agree, "county / charity" hospital is not an ideal place to train RadOncs.
> 90% of our graduates will practice in much more controlled environments.
They will never have to set up a lung field on a LINAC on Xmas day.

Ya great place for a clinical set up on a holiday or a weekend because you are too lazy to commit the resources to give that patient a real plan. Just go off bony anatomy and put a 5-6 cm margin all around because “you don’t want to miss”. Just bump up MUs a bit after your hand calc. These are “great” training places for sure!

 

[RickyScott]

Isn't it crazy how senior "leaders", those that trained 20 yrs ago, got into rad onc when it was joke and likely couldn't match into anything else? Were they anything more than technicians? Just 2 field and 4 field box everything. These same ppl are making all of the decisions about the future of rad onc and it seems like its going back to how it was when they got in--low quality applicants who couldn't get into any other specialty, DOs, FMGs, and other specialty rejects.

Some have a bad combination of eloquence and confidence that covers for a low IQ, but they come across as quite “chairman like”. One of chairpersons above fits this. Would be tough to work for someone who you have 0 intellectual respect.

 

[drewdog1973]

Faculty used to leave en mass on regular basis. Talked to a few and he is tough to work for, although most respect him.

So, I know people there, as well. This is the thing with a few loud voices in here. “trash program” “garbage people” “terrible”. There are some people that are negative about pretty much everything - ever consider that the person complaining about everything may have been a malignant resident and is now an incompetent physician? I’ve been around to know that these malcontents not only exist, but many happen to be “famous” and “vocal” and “thought leaders”. Some on this board, even.

This specialty *was* blessed with the brightest and best, and many have taught themselves. This was the case in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and now. There is no recent surge in “bad programs”. Most have always been bad. Even some programs considered to be good are actually not very good at educating residents. Luckily, it’s a specialty that can be book learned and now the learning can be crowdsourced - RadOncReview, wiki books, Rad Onc Questions, TheMedNet, and when it comes to clinical question, SDN has always been a leader.

I’d rather a so called “good program” cut 3 spots rather than a week program cut 1.

 

[RickyScott]

So, I know people there, as well. This is the thing with a few loud voices in here. “trash program” “garbage people” “terrible”. There are some people that are negative about pretty much everything - ever consider that the person complaining about everything may have been a malignant resident and is now an incompetent physician? I’ve been around to know that these malcontents not only exist, but many happen to be “famous” and “vocal” and “thought leaders”. Some on this board, even.

This specialty *was* blessed with the brightest and best, and many have taught themselves. This was the case in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and now. There is no recent surge in “bad programs”. Most have always been bad. Even some programs. Luckily, it’s a specialty that can be book learned and now the learning can be crowdsourced - RadOncReview, wiki books, Rad Onc Questions, TheMedNet, and when it comes to clinical question, SDN has always been a leader.

I’d rather a so called “good program” cut 3 spots rather than a week program cut 1.

Let me be clear, Maryland historically has been a great training program (albeit malignant) similar to Jeff. My point was as a junior faculty would hate to work at either of these places, with no chance of lateral movement. Ten years ago, weak non malignant programs were a much better option than ball busting good programs assuming resident has slightest motivation. Maryland could make someone who sucks into a decent doc, but if you don’t suck, would have much preferred to be at Columbia in past.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

1) sdn posters are malcontent misanthropic sociopaths. Heard that somewhere?

OR

2) sdn people come from all backgrounds and care about field without some nefarious agenda

Hmm i wonder???

 

[drewdog1973]

1) sdn posters are malcontent misanthropic sociopaths. Heard that somewhere?

OR

2) sdn people come from all backgrounds and care about field without some nefarious agenda

Hmm i wonder???

#2

 

[FrostyHammer]

Let's not forget NY Presby Methodist and Miami. These are poor programs. NY presby is arguably the worst in the nation.

Great point...I started a new thread on this topic, encourage everyone to chime in there

 

[frijoles]

darthmouth- unnecessary cheap labour expansion. Another “ivy” place like cornell trying to use “instutional prestige” to ram through something nobody wanted or needed

Whoa had no idea Dartmouth had a program... new?

 

[medgator]

Whoa had no idea Dartmouth had a program... new?

So many places since i graduated last decade that i recently found out about... Tennessee, Mississippi, dartmouth, Mayo AZ, Texas a&m. Psu wanted one bad, not sure they ever got it approved though

 

[fiji128]

Penn State in Hershey, PA, definitely wanted to start a residency training program and was public about it up to about a year or two ago. Not sure where that effort stands currently. In no universe would that program be needed, except for cheap resident labor.

I have also heard (but can't confirm) that Willis-Knighton Cancer Center (yes a straight up private practice place in Shreveport, LA) was trying to open a training program by parting with a Louisiana based university hospital system. And of course, in no universe would that program be needed. But who knows it could open up a pathway for somone to become ASTRO president in the future.