Lawsuit threatens Remington

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You don't think school shooting deaths which are a subset of the 40 percent of your 40k number which is itself 0.014 percent of the total deaths that same year is rare? Really?

It doesn’t matter to me. the fact that people are able to buy assault rifles and go into a school and slaughter children AT ALL is enough for me to form my personal opinion. If you can live your with a little child slaughter, that’s your choice.

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Can anyone share in here any of this supposed illegal activity promoting advertising that is at issue?

Sure. Their argument is that these eye-rollingly lame tacticool ads:

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are militaristic marketing of military weapons to people who aren't in the military. And by selling to people in this way, the company is saying that it's OK to go out and use them as if you're in the military, which they imply is the indiscriminate murder of children.

This, they argue, is negligent entrustment, along the lines of
  • A bartender giving "one for the road" to an obviously drunk person who's walking out of the bar jingling his car keys.
  • A school bus company that hires a driver with four DUIs on his record.
  • A construction company that puts an untrained person in the cab of a crane with a wrecking ball.
One of the plaintiffs has said “I think that who they are focusing on in their advertisements are young men that maybe do not feel manly and secure, and who are disenfranchised with their lives and maybe feel powerless.”

The whole thing is ridiculous. The bucket of whale chum who murdered those kids didn't even buy the rifle. He wasn't responding to advertising. We have no way of knowing if he ever saw the ads in the first place. He stole the rifle from the safe his mother kept it in, after he murdered her. The advertising, while stupid and distasteful, was in no way related to anything that happened, any of the crimes he committed.

Moreover, negligent entrustment has a very high legal standard. It's absurd to argue that a company, selling a product that is legal, especially one that is only sold after a background check outsourced to the state, somehow KNOWS that the customer intends to commit a crime with it.

The entire basis of their case is the assertion that ALL persons who buy firearms intend to use them to illegally kill other people. Bushmaster/Remington MUST have known this person (not even a customer!) would commit a crime with their product, because the only reason to have a rifle like this is to commit a crime with it.

Really. That's their argument.

The suit is being allowed to proceed. What will probably happen is the plaintiffs will lose, and be liable for the defendants' legal fees.
 
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Imagine where we'd be right now if you simply respected the 2nd Amendment as much as the 1st.

That was a very good post...right up until you assumed that the Left has any remaining respect for the 1st Amendment.
 
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Sure. Their argument is that these eye-rollingly lame tacticool ads:

2550.jpg


571.jpg


50d04fea69bedda55d000026


NINTCHDBPICT000539504741.jpg


are militaristic marketing of military weapons to people who aren't in the military. And by selling to people in this way, the company is saying that it's OK to go out and use them as if you're in the military, which they imply is the indiscriminate murder of children.

This, they argue, is negligent entrustment, along the lines of
  • A bartender giving "one for the road" to an obviously drunk person who's walking out of the bar jingling his car keys.
  • A school bus company that hires a driver with four DUIs on his record.
  • A construction company that puts an untrained person in the cab of a crane with a wrecking ball.
One of the plaintiffs has said “I think that who they are focusing on in their advertisements are young men that maybe do not feel manly and secure, and who are disenfranchised with their lives and maybe feel powerless.”

The whole thing is ridiculous. The bucket of whale chum who murdered those kids didn't even buy the rifle. He wasn't responding to advertising. We have no way of knowing if he ever saw the ads in the first place. He stole the rifle from the safe his mother kept it in, after he murdered her. The advertising, while stupid and distasteful, was in no way related to anything that happened, any of the crimes he committed.

Moreover, negligent entrustment has a very high legal standard. It's absurd to argue that a company, selling a product that is legal, especially one that is only sold after a background check outsourced to the state, somehow KNOWS that the customer intends to commit a crime with it.

The entire basis of their case is the assertion that ALL persons who buy firearms intend to use them to illegally kill other people. Bushmaster/Remington MUST have known this person (not even a customer!) would commit a crime with their product, because the only reason to have a rifle like this is to commit a crime with it.

Really. That's their argument.

The suit is being allowed to proceed. What will probably happen is the plaintiffs will lose, and be liable for the defendants' legal fees.


It’s hard to believe those ads actually work. They are comical. Shows you how many complete tools are out there. I agree they probably had nothing to do with Sandy Hook.
 
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It doesn’t matter to me. the fact that people are able to buy assault rifles and go into a school and slaughter children AT ALL is enough for me to form my personal opinion. If you can live your with a little child slaughter, that’s your choice.

I’m just pointing out that your argument is exceedingly irrational. Otherwise you’d be far more upset about all the things which are far more likely to kill your children.

Honestly, you sound like the Joint Commission.
 
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I’m just pointing out that your argument is exceedingly irrational. Otherwise you’d be far more upset about all the things which are far more likely to kill your children.

Honestly, you sound like the Joint Commission.

Its actually quite consistent, I do what I can (within reason as I see it) to protect my children: teach them to swim in the dangerous pools you discussed, keep the household cleaners you mentioned out of reach, and speak up against selling assault rifles to people that want to go into their schools and murder them. Obviously we will never get rid of all guns but If I got to decide I would take the most restrictive approach. What is your solution to that problem? You support letting people buy assault style guns that they can use to slaughter our kids? If not, what do you propose? Throw up your arms and say it’s the price of freedom?
 
Its actually quite consistent, I do what I can (within reason as I see it) to protect my children: teach them to swim in the dangerous pools you discussed, keep the household cleaners you mentioned out of reach, and speak up against selling assault rifles to people that want to go into their schools and murder them. Obviously we will never get rid of all guns but If I got to decide I would take the most restrictive approach. What is your solution to that problem? You support letting people buy assault style guns that they can use to slaughter our kids? If not, what do you propose? Throw up your arms and say it’s the price of freedom?
The irony here is that you think you've made a rational risk assessment, but you've bought into the marketing mystique too. Hook, line, and sinker.

"assault style guns"

Rifles are used in an exceedingly tiny percentage of crimes involving firearms. Deaths from random shootings are an exceedingly tiny percentage of all murders involving firearms. And yet "assault" weapon bans occupy a special area of interest. Maybe the marketing campaign was more effective than I thought.

Or maybe you just view them as the first step required in order to ban all firearms?
 
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It doesn’t matter to me. the fact that people are able to buy assault rifles and go into a school and slaughter children AT ALL is enough for me to form my personal opinion. If you can live your with a little child slaughter, that’s your choice.
Aw, yes. Because I question you denying a rare thing rare that must mean I am advocating for the rare thing to happen. What a brilliant deduction.
 
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Its actually quite consistent, I do what I can (within reason as I see it) to protect my children: teach them to swim in the dangerous pools you discussed, keep the household cleaners you mentioned out of reach, and speak up against selling assault rifles to people that want to go into their schools and murder them. Obviously we will never get rid of all guns but If I got to decide I would take the most restrictive approach. What is your solution to that problem? You support letting people buy assault style guns that they can use to slaughter our kids? If not, what do you propose? Throw up your arms and say it’s the price of freedom?

A) Nobody wants to sell weapons to people who want to go schools to murder children.

B) You are not being consistent. Consistent would be vowing to never let your child ride in an automobile. Consistent would be wanting to ban automobiles and alcohol before you even thought about firearms as these are far more likely to kill your children.

What if that a$$hole had walked into Sandy Hook with a steak knife and stabbed those children to death? Would you suddenly be beating your chest to ban all cutlery? Restrict the public to using only sporks? Only government employed chefs would be allowed to operate knives, and would be tasked with cutting all our food into tiny spork friendly morsels all in the name of making sure another mass stabbing ever happened again?

You can’t stop the deranged from doing deranged things. Take away guns, and they’ll just use pipe bombs, or moving trucks, or knives.
 
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A) Nobody wants to sell weapons to people who want to go schools to murder children.

B) You are not being consistent. Consistent would be vowing to never let your child ride in an automobile. Consistent would be wanting to ban automobiles and alcohol before you even thought about firearms as these are far more likely to kill your children.

What if that a$$hole had walked into Sandy Hook with a steak knife and stabbed those children to death? Would you suddenly be beating your chest to ban all cutlery? Restrict the public to using only sporks? Only government employed chefs would be allowed to operate knives, and would be tasked with cutting all our food into tiny spork friendly morsels all in the name of making sure another mass stabbing ever happened again?

You can’t stop the deranged from doing deranged things. Take away guns, and they’ll just use pipe bombs, or moving trucks, or knives.
You have obviously never seen a tactical spork
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A) Nobody wants to sell weapons to people who want to go schools to murder children.

B) You are not being consistent. Consistent would be vowing to never let your child ride in an automobile. Consistent would be wanting to ban automobiles and alcohol before you even thought about firearms as these are far more likely to kill your children.

What if that a$$hole had walked into Sandy Hook with a steak knife and stabbed those children to death? Would you suddenly be beating your chest to ban all cutlery? Restrict the public to using only sporks? Only government employed chefs would be allowed to operate knives, and would be tasked with cutting all our food into tiny spork friendly morsels all in the name of making sure another mass stabbing ever happened again?

You can’t stop the deranged from doing deranged things. Take away guns, and they’ll just use pipe bombs, or moving trucks, or knives.
Like everything else, there is a risk/benefit analysis. Sure, automobiles and household items can be dangerous in the wrong hands (though probably not as dangerous as a semiautomatic rifle ). However there is an enormous societal benefit to cars, trucks, power tools, cutlery ect. When has an AR-15 ever been used for anyones benefit except for in military and law enforcement settings? The only thing that the “ good, law abiding “ gun owners seem to do with these weapons is going to the shooting range and living out their war fantasies. Do cars kill more people, absolutely. Can we live without them. Nope.
Deranged loners have always been with us and always will be. Can’t change that. But for the love of god why do we give them access to weapons of war??
 
$6.90 on Amazon. Found my secret Santa gift for the year. Thanks!

That’s morally reprehensible that you would give someone an assault spork. Lord only knows how many lives you just endangered.
 
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A) Nobody wants to sell weapons to people who want to go schools to murder children.

B) You are not being consistent. Consistent would be vowing to never let your child ride in an automobile. Consistent would be wanting to ban automobiles and alcohol before you even thought about firearms as these are far more likely to kill your children.

What if that a$$hole had walked into Sandy Hook with a steak knife and stabbed those children to death? Would you suddenly be beating your chest to ban all cutlery? Restrict the public to using only sporks? Only government employed chefs would be allowed to operate knives, and would be tasked with cutting all our food into tiny spork friendly morsels all in the name of making sure another mass stabbing ever happened again?

You can’t stop the deranged from doing deranged things. Take away guns, and they’ll just use pipe bombs, or moving trucks, or knives.

you seem really concerned about knives so I will break down why they are different from guns:

1) it is easier for most to kill a lot of people really quickly with many guns than with a knife.

2) knives in my opinion have inherent value to most lay people.



Also, by your argument, pipe bombs should be legal, since banning them won’t stop the bad guys from finding another way.
 
you seem really concerned about knives so I will break down why they are different from guns:

1) it is easier for most to kill a lot of people really quickly with many guns than with a knife.

2) knives in my opinion have inherent value to most lay people.



Also, by your argument, pipe bombs should be legal, since banning them won’t stop the bad guys from finding another way.
The components to create a pipe bomb are perfectly legal and one can even have higher power explosives with the proper license.
 
1) it is easier for most to kill a lot of people really quickly with many guns than with a knife.

Knives are designed to cut flesh as efficiently as possible and inflict as much pain and suffering and tissue damage as possible.

Knives are weapons of war and have no place on our streets.

The fact that knives have multiple uses does not take away from the fact that knives are designed to cut flesh.

There is no background check on who is buying knives. You could be a criminal or mentally unfit, but you can walk into any store in America and buy as many and as deadly knives as you want. No other country has a problem with knife violence like America does.

There is no law against knives with serrations which have been shown to be much more dangerous than smooth knives.

Knives are advertised specifically to display their effectiveness at cutting flesh. Knife manufacturers should be held liable for any crimes committed with their ill-advertised products.

I think we need common sense knife control law that expands knife background checks, limits blade length to 2 inches, and forbids sale of any knife with dangerous cosmetic features like black color, finger notches, back blades, and "Rambo-style" notches.
 
The fact that knives like this can be bought in America is the proof that America's obsession with knives is the cause of so much homicide here.

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We need to ban these weapons of war immediately.


If you already own one, we're coming to your house to confiscate it.


It doesn't help that this manufacturer is clearly advertising homicide as the purpose of the knife, in addition to arson (matchsticks), burglary (needle), poaching (fish hook and line), and stalking (compass).
 
I’m gonna go ahead and recommend that nobody Google “trauma porn”. That’s a rabbit hole I don’t wanna go back down.
 
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Aw, yes. Because I question you denying a rare thing rare that must mean I am advocating for the rare thing to happen. What a brilliant deduction.

I know your not advocating FOR it, just the pro gun lobby seems somewhat willing to accept it over giving up any gun rights.
 
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Knives are designed to cut flesh as efficiently as possible and inflict as much pain and suffering and tissue damage as possible.

Knives are weapons of war and have no place on our streets.

The fact that knives have multiple uses does not take away from the fact that knives are designed to cut flesh.

There is no background check on who is buying knives. You could be a criminal or mentally unfit, but you can walk into any store in America and buy as many and as deadly knives as you want. No other country has a problem with knife violence like America does.

There is no law against knives with serrations which have been shown to be much more dangerous than smooth knives.

Knives are advertised specifically to display their effectiveness at cutting flesh. Knife manufacturers should be held liable for any crimes committed with their ill-advertised products.

I think we need common sense knife control law that expands knife background checks, limits blade length to 2 inches, and forbids sale of any knife with dangerous cosmetic features like black color, finger notches, back blades, and "Rambo-style" notches.

Wow you guys really struggle to get the difference between knives and guns. And you seem to believe that since “Knife control” is stupid that gun control is therefore stupid. But knives and guns are very different things. It is NOT an irrational argument to want to limit access to guns but not knives. If you think gun control is stupid do you also think it’s stupid to limit access to explosives, poisons, tanks, fighter jets, chemical weapons? Those things, by your logic, should all be easily available right? They all kill people, according to your thinking, so we can’t differentiate among them?
 
No knives at today’s shooting, super rare, huh?

 
Wow you guys really struggle to get the difference between knives and guns. And you seem to believe that since “Knife control” is stupid that gun control is therefore stupid. But knives and guns are very different things. It is NOT an irrational argument to want to limit access to guns but not knives. If you think gun control is stupid do you also think it’s stupid to limit access to explosives, poisons, tanks, fighter jets, chemical weapons? Those things, by your logic, should all be easily available right? They all kill people, according to your thinking, so we can’t differentiate among them?


Explosives devices are limited by the National Firearms Act, but they can be owned, pending background check and $200 tax stamp.

Tanks can be owned by private citizens. The explosives are limited by the NFA.

Private citizens can own fighter aircraft. Tom Cruise owns a P-51 for instance.

Chemical weapons are illegal to own or manufacture.

Poisonous materials are available to private citizens. Industrial strength chemicals are restricted.
 
Explosives devices are limited by the National Firearms Act, but they can be owned, pending background check and $200 tax stamp.

Tanks can be owned by private citizens. The explosives are limited by the NFA.

Private citizens can own fighter aircraft. Tom Cruise owns a P-51 for instance.

Chemical weapons are illegal to own or manufacture.

Poisonous materials are available to private citizens. Industrial strength chemicals are restricted.

see, something we can agree on: Tom Cruise is awesome.
 
Wow you guys really struggle to get the difference between knives and guns. And you seem to believe that since “Knife control” is stupid that gun control is therefore stupid. But knives and guns are very different things. It is NOT an irrational argument to want to limit access to guns but not knives. If you think gun control is stupid do you also think it’s stupid to limit access to explosives, poisons, tanks, fighter jets, chemical weapons? Those things, by your logic, should all be easily available right? They all kill people, according to your thinking, so we can’t differentiate among them?
You do know it is legal to own tanks, many different kinds of poisons, many different kinds of explosives, certain types of chemical weapons (including chemicals that when mixed form a dangerous gas), and fighter jets (i will grant you that they are demilitarized though). You also realize that "control" is different than banning and confiscating, right?
 
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Explosives devices are limited by the National Firearms Act, but they can be owned, pending background check and $200 tax stamp.

Tanks can be owned by private citizens. The explosives are limited by the NFA.

Private citizens can own fighter aircraft. Tom Cruise owns a P-51 for instance.

Chemical weapons are illegal to own or manufacture.

Poisonous materials are available to private citizens. Industrial strength chemicals are restricted.
The big bad chemical weapons like used in the world wars are illegal worldwide. Pepper spray, and tear gas may technically fits the category and is legal
 
What
And you seem to believe that since “Knife control” is stupid that gun control is therefore stupid.

I don't think knife control is stupid. I just don't think knives should be longer than 2 inches, because why on earth would you "need" a longer knife if you weren't planning on stabbing someone? I also think cosmetic features of knives such as being colored black or having war-like features like Rambo-style serrations increase the deadliness of the weapon and should be prohibited.

I don't personally use knives, but I think people who do are fanatical murderous savages.
 
Probably should tell them you can buy black powder or gunpowder without a license. When I used to hand load, I ordered a bunch.

I probably should get back to that at some point.

Edited: to hand load from handhold . . . . yeah.
 
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Oops. . . . .they aren't mutually exclusive, but in this case that was a typo. Hand load. I never did any hand-holding while hand-loading.
 
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Wow you guys really struggle to get the difference between knives and guns. And you seem to believe that since “Knife control” is stupid that gun control is therefore stupid. But knives and guns are very different things. It is NOT an irrational argument to want to limit access to guns but not knives. If you think gun control is stupid do you also think it’s stupid to limit access to explosives, poisons, tanks, fighter jets, chemical weapons? Those things, by your logic, should all be easily available right? They all kill people, according to your thinking, so we can’t differentiate among them?
 
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It doesn’t matter to me. the fact that people are able to buy assault rifles and go into a school and slaughter children AT ALL is enough for me to form my personal opinion. If you can live your with a little child slaughter, that’s your choice.
They can live with a little child slaughter. As long as it’s not THEIR child that is.
 
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Aw, yes. Because I question you denying a rare thing rare that must mean I am advocating for the rare thing to happen. What a brilliant deduction.
That’s not what is being said here. That “rare thing” has already happened, multiple, multiple times. And people like you are totally ok with it because no one should impinge on your second amendment.
You may not actively advocate for it to happen, but your lack of action and acknowledgement that this is due to easy access to these high powered rifles speaks volumes.
Hey, who cares, long as it’s not MY child.
 
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That is a really disgusting thing to say.
Please. I suspect that if any one here, gun loving fanatics and all, God forbid had a child endangered by a random school shooting, you would change your mind in a jiffy.
Come on, disgusting or not, that’s the truth. If you still go ahead and cry the second amendment is more important than YOUR child’s life then something is really wrong with you.
Since moderators refused to close this thread, let me play in the mud!!
 
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That’s not what is being said here. That “rare thing” has already happened, multiple, multiple times. And people like you are totally ok with it because no one should impinge on your second amendment.
You may not actively advocate for it to happen, but your lack of action and acknowledgement that this is due to easy access to these high powered rifles speaks volumes.
Hey, who cares, long as it’s not MY child.
What an ignorant comment. First off they haven't happened "many, many times" by any logical standard. Acknowledging the rarity of an event does not tell you anything about my views on it or my action or inaction. Also, you can't assume that someone who doesn't advocate for your preferred method dealing with it is "ok with it" simply because the disagree with what might work. You are entitled to your wrong and ignorant opinions, but it doesn't make less of a jerk for making outlandish remarks to people.
 
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Please. I suspect that if any one here, gun loving fanatics and all, God forbid had a child endangered by a random school shooting, you would change your mind in a jiffy.
Come on, disgusting or not, that’s the truth. If you still go ahead and cry the second amendment is more important than YOUR child’s life then something is really wrong with you.
Since moderators refused to close this thread, let me play in the mud!!
Thus far you are the only one in the mud and ought to be ashamed of yourself that you are enjoying slinging insults and spewing easily falsifiable information. Not everyone who lost a child thinks your way is the right way.
The members of the club—like the citizens of the nation they live in—don’t all agree on how to prevent gun violence in schools. Pollack believes the answer lies not in “endless discussions of gun control” but in expanding access to mental-health care and tightening school security. He has lobbied state legislators and school districts across the U.S. to provide metal detectors and hire trained security personnel. Darrell Scott, the Columbine father, and Scarlett Lewis, whose son Jesse, 6, was killed in his first-grade classroom at Sandy Hook, both advocate teaching children social-emotional skills, like empathy and compassion, in school. Willey suggests that mental-health screenings should be extended to every member of a household with guns.
Shame on you for your closed mindedness
 
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What an ignorant comment. First off they haven't happened "many, many times" by any logical standard. Acknowledging the rarity of an event does not tell you anything about my views on it or my action or inaction. Also, you can't assume that someone who doesn't advocate for your preferred method dealing with it is "ok with it" simply because the disagree with what might work. You are entitled to your wrong and ignorant opinions, but it doesn't make less of a jerk for making outlandish remarks to people.
Really? School shootings in this country have not happened many many times? Let’s see, hmm sandy hook, Aurora, Virginia tech, are the big ones that come to mind. But there’s a Wikepidia page that has lots more. What part of my info is “easily falsifiable” exactly?
Guess your definition of “multiple multiple times” and mine are different which is fine. But let’s not pretend that America is not know world wide for its mass shootings many of which happen in schools. Ok....
As well you are entitled to your wrong ignorant opinions too.
How am I being a jerk exactly?
 
Please. I suspect that if any one here, gun loving fanatics and all, God forbid had a child endangered by a random school shooting, you would change your mind in a jiffy.
Come on, disgusting or not, that’s the truth. If you still go ahead and cry the second amendment is more important than YOUR child’s life then something is really wrong with you.
Since moderators refused to close this thread, let me play in the mud!!

That's not the truth. That's not fact. That's not reality.

You have a disgusting attitude towards gun owners simply because you disagree with them on a constitutional right.

If you have polling evidence that says gun owners are heartless supporters of violence against children, then provide it.
 
Really? School shootings in this country have not happened many many times? Let’s see, hmm sandy hook, Aurora, Virginia tech, are the big ones that come to mind. But there’s a Wikepidia page that has lots more. What part of my info is “easily falsifiable” exactly?
Guess your definition of “multiple multiple times” and mine are different which is fine. But let’s not pretend that America is not know world wide for its mass shootings many of which happen in schools. Ok....
As well you are entitled to your wrong ignorant opinions too.
How am I being a jerk exactly?
Many many times in comparison to other ways people die is simply not accurate as I previously stated deaths due to "assault weapons" used in schools is a subset of a subset of a subset that is already low percentage of total deaths.

You are being a jerk by saying people are ok with child murder for not agreeing with you
 
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@chocomorsel , we could save an order of magnitude more lives by banning alcohol than we could by banning firearms. Alcohol is not essential for modern society to function. Why are you not on here thumping your chest that we need to re-instate prohibition every time a drunk driver kills someone (like the dbag that ran over a family trick-or-treating on Halloween).
 
That's not the truth. That's not fact. That's not reality.

You have a disgusting attitude towards gun owners simply because you disagree with them on a constitutional right.

If you have polling evidence that says gun owners are heartless supporters of violence against children, then provide it.
Not what I said. But thanks in trying to put words on my keyboard.
 
Not what I said. But thanks in trying to put words on my keyboard.

"They can live with a little child slaughter. As long as it’s not THEIR child that is."

That's exactly what you said.

In other words, "Gun owners are perfectly fine with the murder of children."
 
"They can live with a little child slaughter. As long as it’s not THEIR child that is."

That's exactly what you said.

In other words, "Gun owners are perfectly fine with the murder of children."
As long as it isn't their own, that is. Because in chocomorsel land all gun owners would melt down their weapons and work to ban them if their own child was the victim.
 
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