Knowing what you know now, would you decide to choose medicine?

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Leukocyte said:
FM, and primary care in general, is vital to a good health care system. We need more good, smart, and caring PCPs, but unfortunately, it is not for everyone. It takes a special person to be good PCP. Someone who loves spending time with patients, and getting involved in their medico-social affairs. A people's person. A person who enjoys being a general health care servant. Unfortunately, that person is not me. Not even three INTENSIVE years of primary care residency was able to pressure me into loving the health care service.

It is very simple, I just do not like clinical medicine. In other words, I do not enjoy being a servant of health care. I am not going to fight it, and I refuse to do a job that I hate. I am not ready to compromize, not after spending all this time and money. After finishing residency, I refuse to practice clinical medicine....for my own sake and sanity. I am very (extremely) sad and deppressed because I am now in clinical medicine. Every single day is a living hell for me. Why should I put myself through this. I deserve better. I worked hard all my life, and this is what I get? It is not fair to see my friends, who barely finished undergraduate college, happy and doing something they love everyday....while I, who sacrificed 1/3 of my life AND my credit score, am miserable in a job that I hate, and cannot even tolerate. I want to be happy like them. I want to love my job. After all that hard work, I think I deserve at least that. I could care less about "prestige" or how much my salary is. I just want to be happy...or, AT LEAST, not sad.



Like i said many times before I made a huge mistake going to medical school. I like the medical sciences, not the first-hand service of health care. I thought "Medicine" was the science of human beings, and by going to medical school, I would be a "human being scientist". I was very wrong. Medicine is a profession, not a science. A Neurologist is a provider of neurological health care services, not a "brain scientist". A PhD in Neuroscience, on the other hand, IS a scientist of the brain and the nervous system. There is a BIG difference. One is a profession, with semi-rigid protocols, pathways, and standards of care that one must abide to, IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SUED. The other is a "playgound" for ideas and imagination to unlock mistries of the unknown, and push the frontiers of human knowlegde. Going back to school for a PhD is one of my current options. But my worry is the financies, and the huge debt I have.



Lets see;

-I like the medical sciences. The USMLE Step 1 is a test of the medical sciences. I pass step 1 comfortably on my 1st attempt.

-On the other hand, I hate clinical medicine. The USMLE Step 2 CK is a test of CLINICAL knowledge. I failed my 1st attempt on step 2 CK.

You do the "math"...:idea:



My friend, I picked the wrong profession. It is sad, but true. MD = Health care servant / Provider of health care service in the health care industry. That is just not me. I will not do clinical medicine after residency. It might be too late to turn back now, but I will not do something I hate just for the money.

Look, medicine is a noble profession...but you have to ENJOY being a humble servant to the sick customer of health care. When I am 80 years old, on the medicine ward, surrounded by my own smelly feces, I want my doctor to WANT to be in the room with me, and serve me the best health care he can service. If you are up for that, then welcome to medicine, and may GOD bless you. If the idea of serving old smelly sick people repulse you, then I do not want you near my bed.

We NEED good doctors who ENJOY and WANT to serve "grade A" health care. This maybe just right for you. I, on the other hand, do not enjoy being a servant of health care, and will not (refuse) to work in an industry that I do not like. I will take my chances, and do something I love instead. At least I will not be that "doctor" who starts huffing and puffing each time the ER calls, or a when he gets called to do consults at 3 am on weekends.

Good luck.
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Well since you hate seeing patients so much, can you transfer to pathology or radiology or anything that does not involve patient contact? You won't have to deal with patients then.

Also after residency, you don't have to do clinical work. You can always do a research fellowship after residency for a year or two and go straight into bench research. Or if you already have research experience in terms of designing studies, there are lots of pharmaceuticals that need MDs to run clinical trials. Worst case scenario is you go back and get your pHD, though honestly I feel like you can learn everything you need in 1 to 2 years with a mentor whos willing to teach you (ie as a lab manager or lab technician where they allow you to design and implement your own project). I've been in research for over 5 years as a lab tech and lab manager and I've worked with alot of pHD's/pHD candidates who really just do the exact same thing as a lab tech. Getting a pHD doesn't necessarily mean you can do bench research, still need to do post doc crap. So why not just skip the pH D and go straight to being a post doc = glorified lab tech.
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Leukocyte said:
FM, and primary care in general, is vital to a good health care system. We need more good, smart, and caring PCPs, but unfortunately, it is not for everyone. It takes a special person to be good PCP. Someone who loves spending time with patients, and getting involved in their medico-social affairs. A people's person. A person who enjoys being a general health care servant. Unfortunately, that person is not me. Not even three INTENSIVE years of primary care residency was able to pressure me into loving the health care service.

It is very simple, I just do not like clinical medicine. In other words, I do not enjoy being a servant of health care. I am not going to fight it, and I refuse to do a job that I hate. I am not ready to compromize, not after spending all this time and money. After finishing residency, I refuse to practice clinical medicine....for my own sake and sanity. I am very (extremely) sad and deppressed because I am now in clinical medicine. Every single day is a living hell for me. Why should I put myself through this. I deserve better. I worked hard all my life, and this is what I get? It is not fair to see my friends, who barely finished undergraduate college, happy and doing something they love everyday....while I, who sacrificed 1/3 of my life AND my credit score, am miserable in a job that I hate, and cannot even tolerate. I want to be happy like them. I want to love my job. After all that hard work, I think I deserve at least that. I could care less about "prestige" or how much my salary is. I just want to be happy...or, AT LEAST, not sad.



Like i said many times before I made a huge mistake going to medical school. I like the medical sciences, not the first-hand service of health care. I thought "Medicine" was the science of human beings, and by going to medical school, I would be a "human being scientist". I was very wrong. Medicine is a profession, not a science. A Neurologist is a provider of neurological health care services, not a "brain scientist". A PhD in Neuroscience, on the other hand, IS a scientist of the brain and the nervous system. There is a BIG difference. One is a profession, with semi-rigid protocols, pathways, and standards of care that one must abide to, IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SUED. The other is a "playgound" for ideas and imagination to unlock mistries of the unknown, and push the frontiers of human knowlegde. Going back to school for a PhD is one of my current options. But my worry is the financies, and the huge debt I have.



Lets see;

-I like the medical sciences. The USMLE Step 1 is a test of the medical sciences. I pass step 1 comfortably on my 1st attempt.

-On the other hand, I hate clinical medicine. The USMLE Step 2 CK is a test of CLINICAL knowledge. I failed my 1st attempt on step 2 CK.

You do the "math"...:idea:



My friend, I picked the wrong profession. It is sad, but true. MD = Health care servant / Provider of health care service in the health care industry. That is just not me. I will not do clinical medicine after residency. It might be too late to turn back now, but I will not do something I hate just for the money.

Look, medicine is a noble profession...but you have to ENJOY being a humble servant to the sick customer of health care. When I am 80 years old, on the medicine ward, surrounded by my own smelly feces, I want my doctor to WANT to be in the room with me, and serve me the best health care he can service. If you are up for that, then welcome to medicine, and may GOD bless you. If the idea of serving old smelly sick people repulse you, then I do not want you near my bed.

We NEED good doctors who ENJOY and WANT to serve "grade A" health care. This maybe just right for you. I, on the other hand, do not enjoy being a servant of health care, and will not (refuse) to work in an industry that I do not like. I will take my chances, and do something I love instead. At least I will not be that "doctor" who starts huffing and puffing each time the ER calls, or a when he gets called to do consults at 3 am on weekends.

Good luck.
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I am still premed, but this is how I feel. I am more of the nerdy science guy, instead of the health provider. I still haven't got an acceptance, only applied to 2 schools this cycle with one interview since I was uncertain of the path, so I am considering my options. I have looked at the PhD route, but I don't like it. Having observed some biology phd students, they aren't all that creative, mostly staying close to their PI's ideas. Not to mention that the lab work is quite tedious. Lastly, the job prospects stink compared to what a MD degree allows one to do. After a PhD, I have to do a postdoc, then try to find a professorship job that will most likely require me to move to the middle of nowhere. As a biology major, I can't think of doing anything else other than getting a MD or PhD. Either path would allow me to do research and become a professor. The MD path just makes more sense compared to the PhD one.
 
Leukocyte said:
It is very simple, I just do not like clinical medicine. In other words, I do not enjoy being a servant of health care. I am not going to fight it, and I refuse to do a job that I hate. I am not ready to compromize, not after spending all this time and money. After finishing residency, I refuse to practice clinical medicine....for my own sake and sanity. I am very (extremely) sad and deppressed because I am now in clinical medicine. Every single day is a living hell for me. Why should I put myself through this. I deserve better. I worked hard all my life, and this is what I get? It is not fair to see my friends, who barely finished undergraduate college, happy and doing something they love everyday....while I, who sacrificed 1/3 of my life AND my credit score, am miserable in a job that I hate, and cannot even tolerate. I want to be happy like them. I want to love my job. After all that hard work, I think I deserve at least that. I could care less about "prestige" or how much my salary is. I just want to be happy...or, AT LEAST, not sad.



Like i said many times before I made a huge mistake going to medical school. I like the medical sciences, not the first-hand service of health care. I thought "Medicine" was the science of human beings, and by going to medical school, I would be a "human being scientist". I was very wrong. Medicine is a profession, not a science. A Neurologist is a provider of neurological health care services, not a "brain scientist". A PhD in Neuroscience, on the other hand, IS a scientist of the brain and the nervous system. There is a BIG difference. One is a profession, with semi-rigid protocols, pathways, and standards of care that one must abide to, IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SUED. The other is a "playgound" for ideas and imagination to unlock mistries of the unknown, and push the frontiers of human knowlegde. Going back to school for a PhD is one of my current options. But my worry is the financies, and the huge debt I have.



Lets see;

-I like the medical sciences. The USMLE Step 1 is a test of the medical sciences. I pass step 1 comfortably on my 1st attempt.

-On the other hand, I hate clinical medicine. The USMLE Step 2 CK is a test of CLINICAL knowledge. I failed my 1st attempt on step 2 CK.

You do the "math"...:idea:



My friend, I picked the wrong profession. It is sad, but true. MD = Health care servant / Provider of health care service in the health care industry. That is just not me. I will not do clinical medicine after residency. It might be too late to turn back now, but I will not do something I hate just for the money.

Look, medicine is a noble profession...but you have to ENJOY being a humble servant to the sick customer of health care. When I am 80 years old, on the medicine ward, surrounded by my own smelly feces, I want my doctor to WANT to be in the room with me, and serve me the best health care he can service. If you are up for that, then welcome to medicine, and may GOD bless you. If the idea of serving old smelly sick people repulse you, then I do not want you near my bed.

We NEED good doctors who ENJOY and WANT to serve "grade A" health care. This maybe just right for you. I, on the other hand, do not enjoy being a servant of health care, and will not (refuse) to work in an industry that I do not like. I will take my chances, and do something I love instead. At least I will not be that "doctor" who starts huffing and puffing each time the ER calls, or a when he gets called to do consults at 3 am on weekends.

Good luck.
Click to expand...


This right here is why I feel pretty strongly that there should be a period of time between undergrad and med school admission. People need time to explore things and figure their lives out before committing to something so personally and financially draining.

I worked for 9 years before starting med school, and learned what I liked and didn't like. That's what keeps me sane during these years of med school that I'm finding pretty much useless (3rd year post cores).

I just have to remember what life was like before med school...I enjoyed my free time, but dreaded the "office".

I'm just looking for something that will allow me to not dread going to work every day. I think there are plenty of options...and the beauty is if I play it correctly, my loans will be gone within 5 years or so after residency and if I'm miserable, i can go on to something else. I don't have any fantasies about early retirement or anything like that, so I'm good.
 
Personally, I think it's fabulous that medicine is no longer the biggest ticket item out there, and that the income prospects are radically divergent in BigLaw or hedge funds. People motivated by money will look elsewhere.

The angriest, dick-iest people I've met in medicine went to school in the "glory days" of the $10 million/yr cardiac surgeon, and can't face the reality of the current reimbursement landscape. Winnowing them out of the current med student/resident pool is a great thing.

That being said, there are sharp differences between this fabled world of 24 yr old hedge fund millionaires and medicine. Medicine is for the risk-averse; in general the entire cohort of doctors is assured a good living. The MD is still the best-rewarded degree *on average*-- over $150K for those working full-time. The average JD makes $55,000 and the average BBA much less than that. Hell, the average MBA rakes in a cool $80K. Only the top of the top can command stratospheric salaries-- and they are generally coolly motivated by profit, glory and out-balling everyone else. The finance curve is just radically right-skewed: you have a nice little distribution centering on $50,000, and this crazy tail extending out into the 10s of millions.
 
BlondeDocteur said:
The angriest, dick-iest people I've met in medicine went to school in the "glory days" of the $10 million/yr cardiac surgeon, and can't face the reality of the current reimbursement landscape. Winnowing them out of the current med student/resident pool is a great thing.
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I'm sorry, but weren't you gunning for plastics? Yea, I wouldn't talk much about salary either if the one I was hoping for averages close to half a million a year. :rolleyes:
 
Slack3r said:
I'm sorry, but weren't you gunning for plastics? Yea, I wouldn't talk much about salary either if the one I was hoping for averages close to half a million a year. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

She also, if you read her sig, decided not to pursue plastics, and is doing general surgery instead.
 
smq123 said:
She also, if you read her sig, decided not to pursue plastics, and is doing general surgery instead.
Click to expand...

Based on not being able to match, if I'm not mistaken. That's also missing the point of what I was saying. You can denigrate everyone you want who does acknowledge their bottom line, but try not to do it from atop the pedestal of high-paying lifestyle specialties.
 
Thanks smq... and I still maintain that it's a very good thing for doctors and patients alike that MD no longer equals limitless riches.

*Nothing* is wrong with caring about money while caring about patients. I think physicians deserve to be well remunerated for their services. But you can't lose sight of the caring about patients half of the equation.
 
MJB said:
...I feel pretty strongly that there should be a period of time between undergrad and med school admission. People need time to explore things and figure their lives out before committing to something so personally and financially draining.
Click to expand...

I am not sure how will that do any good. All medical students go to medical school because they THINK they are 100% in love with medicine anyway. If you ask any 1st year medical student if they are sure medicine is "it", they will swear with everything that is holy that it is it...and willing to give their left testicle/ovary for a spot at medical school. We cannot blame them. I was like this when I was a 1st year student. We cannot blame them b/c there is no way for them to know if medicine will be their only love, their "one-and-only". Think of it this way. If a guy fell in love with a girl and is hell-bent on marrying her because he THINKS that she is "the one"....he marries her...3 years later he could not even stand the sight of her, and is in a bitter divoce battle with her. Could that everyday guy have predicted that the person he loved the most before marriage, would end up being the person he hates the most.

Would have, dating/marrying other girls in the past, have helped him predict his unhappiness in his last marriage?!!!!!

Even a graduating 4th year medical student hell-bent on going for, lets say, general surgery would not/can not be able to tell for sure if they will be happy doing general surgery as an attending. A medical student's experience is nothing like an attending's experience. Again, like I said before, a hand in the fire, is not like a hand outside it. That medical student is not subjected to the work-load, scrutiny, pressure, politics, and letigation of being an attending. It is not until that "medical student" carry the same burdin an attending carries, that he will know, for sure, if he/she will be happy.

People sometimes mix happiness and appreciation. Appreciation does not lead to happiness. Having experience working in other jobs (especially if they are ranked lower on the socio-economic perspective scale), indeed makes a person appreciate that they are no longer subjected to the disadvangates that that these jobs come with, BUT this appreciation does not automatically translate to being happy at your current, higher paying, job. It is rather a pretty simple and straight forward concept...it is either one likes or hates doing something...Otherwise, one is FORCING themselves to do that something because of some other gain (for example money/prestige/family/peer pressure....). These are the people who are miserable.

Good Luck.
 
.
 
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At least four close friends - wonderful people - all in med peds. family practice, primary care, encouraged me to do DNP or NP whatevger it is/was at the time becayse I was ready to apply to medical school.

AFter hearing the truth about their practices, and the truth about their financial compensation and job satisfaction which was poor on all accounts, reading the latest trends in heaklth care reform, nurse practitioner was the way to go.

But after finding out about both the contrversy surrounding the mandatoery DNP degree and the dismal outlook for family care docs in six yearw out, I am once again concerned about getting myself caught up in six years of expensive training that will get me into a situation where I will not be able tp0 support family practice or even psychiatry as a practice.

Sory of scary now really. Sure Im appplying to 20 schools this year but jiminey!!!! Anyone see this and want to start advocating for loan repayment incentives for primary care docs and family practice docs??? Se we can at least keep medicine part of the primary care practice options/supervision/advisor capacity???

What is going to happen?

Dr. Flower, PhD
 
No. Well--it's difficult to imagine parting with everything I've learned and gone through in med school--but no. I'm finishing up M3 and finding that it only took one clinical year to realize I am not going to be happy doing this.

I came into medicine hoping to find a calling ... no such calls have come in. I spend my free time planning my entrance back into the creative life. When people ask me about which residency I'd like to go into I use the metaphor that I'd rather design the weapons (do research/create medical devices) than be the foot soldier using them in the trenches.

We need a lot of foot soldiers and weapon designers. I now know where I'll be happy and hence do more damage.
 
BlondeDocteur said:
Personally, I think it's fabulous that medicine is no longer the biggest ticket item out there, and that the income prospects are radically divergent in BigLaw or hedge funds. People motivated by money will look elsewhere.

The angriest, dick-iest people I've met in medicine went to school in the "glory days" of the $10 million/yr cardiac surgeon, and can't face the reality of the current reimbursement landscape. Winnowing them out of the current med student/resident pool is a great thing.

That being said, there are sharp differences between this fabled world of 24 yr old hedge fund millionaires and medicine. Medicine is for the risk-averse; in general the entire cohort of doctors is assured a good living. The MD is still the best-rewarded degree *on average*-- over $150K for those working full-time. The average JD makes $55,000 and the average BBA much less than that. Hell, the average MBA rakes in a cool $80K. Only the top of the top can command stratospheric salaries-- and they are generally coolly motivated by profit, glory and out-balling everyone else. The finance curve is just radically right-skewed: you have a nice little distribution centering on $50,000, and this crazy tail extending out into the 10s of millions.
Click to expand...

+1. Go to your local unemployment office and calculate the ratio of JDs, MBAs and BBAs to MDs that are on the dole.
 
DrArete said:
funny-pictures-cat-is-sympathetic-to-injury-of-friend.jpg
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Well, thanks for the sympathy, but no need to feel sorry for me. I, at least, KNOW that I hate clinical medicine, and will not practice it in the future. I would feel sorry for those who are in denial. Those who, each time they step into their hospital/clinic/ER/OR, feel sick to their stomach, but refuse to acknowledge their feelings and keep torturing them selves day after day.

Medicine is a noble profession. Do it if you love it. If you know you hate medicine and continue to do it because the ratio of JDs/MBAs/BS/PhDs to MDs at the "local unemployment office" is 1,000,000 to 1, then I sympathize with you...and with your patients. Yes, times are tough, but you deserve more. You deserve to be happy. You are smart, and have sacrificed a lot for your career. So at least, you deserve to be happy. At this stage, and with your proven high level of intelligence, it is unfair to yourself to force yourself to do something you hate, just for the money. Thats what prostitutes do. Not intelligent, hard-working, dedicated people. Medicine is not like any other job. You cannot do it just for the sake of good job security/money. You can do that in bussiness, law, engineering, in fast-food...., but not in medicine. Medicine is NOT just a job...it is a professional career. It demands a certain level of passion and dedication. If you do not love medicine (or at least not hate it), then the outcome down the road is obvious. So do it if you love it and dedicated to it.

Good Luck.
 
Leukocyte said:
I thought "Medicine" was the science of human beings, and by going to medical school, I would be a "human being scientist". I was very wrong. Medicine is a profession, not a science. A Neurologist is a provider of neurological health care services, not a "brain scientist". A PhD in Neuroscience, on the other hand, IS a scientist of the brain and the nervous system. There is a BIG difference. One is a profession, with semi-rigid protocols, pathways, and standards of care that one must abide to, IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SUED. The other is a "playgound" for ideas and imagination to unlock mistries of the unknown, and push the frontiers of human knowlegde. Going back to school for a PhD is one of my current options.
Click to expand...

You're right and wrong. Absolutely one of the biggest problems with the medical field is that we have to deal with all the rules and regulations, from JCAHO to HIPAA to the hospital policy. That's one of the biggest complaints from people, that you're this highly-trained physician who deals with (sometimes) life-or-death issues and yet you're being treated like some kid in grade school where you get called in and yelled at for not including your pager number at the end of your note. And this continues (with different issues) as an attending. But at the same time, being an attending frees you considerably. And this is not meant to try to persuade you to love medicine. I'm just saying, it's totally different than being a resident.

As a resident, you have to take care of everyone's patients. As an attending, you take care of your own. You have fewer patients, you actually have a relationship with them, and if they tick you off you can just refuse to see them in the future (despite peoples' thoughts to the contrary, this is very doable). Also, you don't have to come to the hospital at any set time and you can round whenever you want. Now, sometimes you have to stay late or come early or both, but you can also leave any time you want. I remember the first time I left the hospital when the sun was up. You feel all weird, like you're cutting class and you're like "did someone see me?? Did someone see me?" It's pathetic.

And keep in mind that as a PhD you're not the b*tch of the hospital, but you're the b*tch of the NIH. Sitting around writing up grants and proposals and basically begging for money. And then as soon as you get it, you run furiously to the lab to start fabricating data so that you can justify your grant. Oh, wait, did I write that? ;)
 
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P.S. The biggest change, which residents don't know? The ER guys become your b*tches. So there's no more "huffing about getting consults from them." Like I said, it's your schedule, you're the boss. As residents, if you don't come running fast enough, the ER attending, who is obviously an attending, will just threaten to call your attending and start talking smack about you. That's the thing with residency, everyone is your boss. Or, if you get too lippy with the ER guy, he'll threaten to just start consulting you for everything. We've all seen that move.

If you're an attending, you just go "bring it on." You get paid for every consult he wants to slap on you, you don't necessarily have to see it quickly, they can get reviewed for what they're sending your way, and they're just giving themselves more work. If they want to consult you for something, you just tell them to get a CT scan and call you with the results. Or check the labs and get back to you. You can't do that as a resident, but you can sure do it as an attending. In fact, you can even tell them to admit a patient. They won't put in many orders, but they'll have to put in some.

Trust me, as an attending, there's no "huffing" about getting ER consults. You LOVE ER consults. You only hate ER consults as a resident.
 
glade said:
You're right and wrong. Absolutely one of the biggest problems with the medical field is that we have to deal with all the rules and regulations, from JCAHO to HIPAA to the hospital policy. That's one of the biggest complaints from people, that you're this highly-trained physician who deals with (sometimes) life-or-death issues and yet you're being treated like some kid in grade school where you get called in and yelled at for not including your pager number at the end of your note. And this continues (with different issues) as an attending. But at the same time, being an attending frees you considerably. And this is not meant to try to persuade you to love medicine. I'm just saying, it's totally different than being a resident.

As a resident, you have to take care of everyone's patients. As an attending, you take care of your own. You have fewer patients, you actually have a relationship with them, and if they tick you off you can just refuse to see them in the future (despite peoples' thoughts to the contrary, this is very doable). Also, you don't have to come to the hospital at any set time and you can round whenever you want. Now, sometimes you have to stay late or come early or both, but you can also leave any time you want. I remember the first time I left the hospital when the sun was up. You feel all weird, like you're cutting class and you're like "did someone see me?? Did someone see me?" It's pathetic.

And keep in mind that as a PhD you're not the b*tch of the hospital, but you're the b*tch of the NIH. Sitting around writing up grants and proposals and basically begging for money. And then as soon as you get it, you run furiously to the lab to start fabricating data so that you can justify your grant. Oh, wait, did I write that? ;)
Click to expand...

True that. Going into research primarily especially as a bench researcher is basically attending an english writing class for the rest of your life. Literally all you do is sit and type and sit and type and sit and type some more. Almost all the work is going to be in done my lab techs or post docs assuming you actually got grant money that you can afford them. Then after you sit and type some more, you go to NIH and beg for some money and basically if you aren't a big dog, they'll slap you a few times and you gotta sit and type some more. If you are lucky you'll be part of the 20% of submitted papers that actually get funding. 80% of you sorry out of luck.

Worst case scenario, I was working as a lab manager at HMS and when I was about to go to medical school, they needed someone to take over for me (only a BA). A potential candidate was a pHD with multiple publications and alot of credentials, unfortunately she was one of the many who didn't get grants, not picked up by industry, or have tenure (only 15% of all researchers/professors) and the best she could do was my job (40,000 a year). Not only that you gotta be someone B**** for who knows X amount number of years as a post doc after getting your pHD making less than a lab tech (30,000) toiling away until you are lucky enough to get your own stuff.

Don't forget that after you get your grant, just like GLADE said, you gotta do the same S*** every 4-5 years and anytime you can not get that grant and be out of a job. Better be ready for kissing some NIH butt. This is why research is so incredibly competitive and there is just so much back stabbing going on. No one cares about you unless you fulfill a bottom line and you will always be someone's B****. Full time research with no other capacity for income = HARD ON THE MIND and SOUL.
 
bronx43 said:
Guys at quant hedge fund groups, however, are braniacs. They're not usually picked up at undergrad business schools. They're a combination of financial engineers, traders, or math/physics majors.
Click to expand...

Those brainiacs tanked the global economy with their incomprehensible financial products. Some brainiac.
 
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