Is lifestyle alone a good enough reason to rule out general surgery?

[fancymylotus]

I guess to each its own! My school already declared me as a 'persona non grata' (according to my roommate who is an MS2) because they know I have been documented everything that happens in MS1 so far i.e professors being late, administration not following up on their promises etc... Every administration officials and professors I have met, I bring my notebook and document everything they say and I told them I am doing it... Already have almost 30 pages documented about everything that have happened so far....

What the actual ****?

Are you serious?!

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[KnuxNole]

As long as you never do this to other students. You don't want to be that guy who gets all the side eyes, saliva thrown your way, and disinvites to Xmas parties :O

Don't want to damper your efforts, but I doubt it'll do any good. It can though, stranger things have happened. You can be the 0.01% of the med student population who can make a change. So, it's something.

 

[W19]

What the actual ****?

Are you serious?!

I am serious! But when you are doing that, you have to be in good standing in your classes because once these people got an opening, they will hammer you...

 

[KnuxNole]

Yes but still, I could easily see a scenario in which that resident would have ended up fired for their actions at a lot of hospitals.

This isn't kindergarten anymore - "they started it" is rarely a viable excuse.

As a student, you simply have too much to lose.

I'd also point out that that post is going on 5 years old, and the incident in question likely even older. One of our now-attendings got in a fistfight with someone in the hospital in the early 2000s and the then chairman laughed about the incident. I think in today's climate it would play out very differently.

Agreed. The other surgeon would have easily been fired in so many other hospitals without a care in the world...

 

[Doudline]

I guess to each its own! My school already declared me a 'persona non grata' (according to my roommate who is an MS2) because they know I have documented everything that happens in MS1 so far i.e professors being late, administration not following up on their promises etc... Every administration officials and professors I have met, I bring my notebook and document everything they say and I told them I am doing it... Already have almost 30 pages documented about everything that have happened so far....

lmao, you're "that" guy

good luck in life

 

[DermViser]

Or better yet, just drop out and get it over with already. You'll be doing your colleagues and your future patients a favor.

Considering he's an M1, you would think he would while his med school debt is still miniscule.

 

[fancymylotus]

I guess to each its own! My school already declared me a 'persona non grata' (according to my roommate who is an MS2) because they know I have documented everything that happens in MS1 so far i.e professors being late, administration not following up on their promises etc... Every administration officials and professors I have met, I bring my notebook and document everything they say and I told them I am doing it... Already have almost 30 pages documented about everything that have happened so far....

You do realize that you've given your school all the ammo they need to put a bigass target on your head, and that the nanosecond you **** up(and you will **** up, we all did/do), theyre gonna nail you to a wall and try to toss you out...right?

 

[DermViser]

I am serious! But when you are doing that, you have to be in good standing in your classes because once these people got an opening, they will hammer you...

So you actually think that your medical school class ranking will save and give you cover for punching an attending? You can't be serious. I'll let Billy Madison say it:

 

[W19]

The question is why

Because a MS2 student told me that administration at my school usually change the rules in the middle of the game... I thought that was the best way to protect myself...

 

[DermViser]

I guess to each its own! My school already declared me a 'persona non grata' (according to my roommate who is an MS2) because they know I have documented everything that happens in MS1 so far i.e professors being late, administration not following up on their promises etc... Every administration officials and professors I have met, I bring my notebook and document everything they say and I told them I am doing it... Already have almost 30 pages documented about everything that have happened so far....

Now you're just plain trolling. Your diary is going to be very thick come M3. You plan on turning in your diaries to the LCME? You must be quite insufferable in class, and will be on rotations.

 

[W19]

So you actually think that your medical school class ranking will save and give you cover for punching an attending? You can't be serious. I'll let Billy Madison say it:

Where did I say I will punch an attending?

 

[W19]

Now you're just plain trolling. Your diary is going to be very thick come M3. You plan on turning in your diaries to the LCME? You must be quite insufferable in class, and will be on rotations.

I will not turn my diary to anyone... Why you keep saying stuff I have never said? To be honest, I actually like my school in term of resources they make available to us so we can succeed...

 

[DermViser]

Where did I say I will punch an attending?

"There is no way I would stay quiet and let anyone abuses me because he/she is an attending... I will bring that up to the Dean of students and if they don't do anything about it, I will take matter into my own hands. The line got to be drawn somewhere!

I will not turn my diary to anyone... Why you keep saying stuff I have never said?

Didn't say you did. Unless you're using your diary for your own psychological well-being, the diary is quite useless. Documenting every single flaw or infraction, no matter how small, won't change a darn thing. A med school has full right to change policies midstream and they have done that for years.

 

[W19]

"There is no way I would stay quiet and let anyone abuses me because he/she is an attending... I will bring that up to the Dean of students and if they don't do anything about it, I will take matter into my own hands. The line got to be drawn somewhere!

You take that sentence too literally!

 

[KnuxNole]

I would echo southernIM's question of why. They won't change anything for your class, so you have nothing to gain from this....

 

[fancymylotus]

I have a diary.
Its called " Fancy's diary of Shooz and Shopping"

...better known as the spreadsheet of all the **** I'm trying to write off and not pay taxes on.

 

[DermViser]

I have a diary.
Its called " Fancy's diary of Shooz and Shopping"

...better known as the spreadsheet of all the **** I'm trying to write off and not pay taxes on.

At least that has an actual purpose. Writing in your diary that your med school Biochem professor was late to lecture, is not exactly constructive.

 

[KnuxNole]

Honestly, I'd still be late, maybe even 1 minute later, then 2 minutes to spite people.. ;P. Which is an exaggeration, since I'm sure there's no documentation if it's 2 minutes late(dude who cares?)

 

[W19]

At least that has an actual purpose. Writing in your diary that your med school Biochem professor was late to lecture, is not exactly constructive.

Boy! How do you know? She was late multiple times during biochem... One professor cancelled his class literally 2 minutes before class started while everyone was waiting on him, until one student checked his email...

 

[Doudline]

"There is no way I would stay quiet and let anyone abuses me because he/she is an attending... I will bring that up to the Dean of students and if they don't do anything about it, I will take matter into my own hands. The line got to be drawn somewhere!

Oh, didn't realize it was the same guy.

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[Slack3r]

Boy! How do you know? She was late multiple times during biochem... One professor cancelled his class literally 2 minutes before class started while everyone was waiting on him, until one student checked his email...

Oh, the humanity!

 

[KnuxNole]

There's probably a disconnect with me and this issue, because I wouldn't be in class in the first place. This isn't anything that reporting would ever change....

 

[DermViser]

Boy! How do you know? She was late multiple times during biochem... One professor cancelled his class literally 2 minutes before class started while everyone was waiting on him, until one student checked his email...

I bet you're the type of student that likes to get spoonfed every little thing. You will be quite a pain to deal with on clinical rotations.

 

[DermViser]

Boy! How do you know? She was late multiple times during biochem... One professor cancelled his class literally 2 minutes before class started while everyone was waiting on him, until one student checked his email...

You can stop trolling now. We get it.

 

[DermViser]

Honestly, I'd still be late, maybe even 1 minute later, then 2 minutes to spite people.. ;P. Which is an exaggeration, since I'm sure there's no documentation if it's 2 minutes late(dude who cares?)

Exactly. If I knew a student was documenting that in his diary, I, personally, would come to class purposefully late, I would announce to the class that I am doing so bc of aforementioned student, and I would make the midterm exam that much harder.

 

[DermViser]

Oh, didn't realize it was the same guy.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Either that or he is a ridiculously spoiled and entitled medical student (he definitely wouldn't be the first med student like that).

 

[sinombre]

Either that or he is a ridiculously spoiled and entitled medical student (he definitely wouldn't be the first).

The amount of entitlement is making my head spin. I don't even know how to respond without violating the TOS. Which would be especially dangerous considering he would probably record it in his SDN diary and then report me.

 

[DermViser]

The amount of entitlement is making my head spin. I don't even know how to respond without violating the TOS. Which would be especially dangerous considering he would probably record it in his SDN diary and then report me.

Yes, I'm trying hard to hold my tongue as well, as he's definitely not worth getting banned over. Early on I used to wonder at the beginning why medical school administrators and faculty don't actively listen and respond to student complaints. It's bc of people like W19 that they don't. All the actual valid and concerning complaints of actual significance are drowned out by the miniscule, superfluous complaints, and gives them perfect reason to ignore them all.

He'll write in his diary when he gets chewed out by a resident, I'm sure.

 

[W19]

Exactly. If I knew a student was documenting that in his diary, I, personally, would come to class purposefully late, I would announce to the class that I am doing so bc of aforementioned student, and I would make the midterm exam that much harder.

If the test is hard for everyone, fine with me. I don't think that I am entitled to anything... If they want to hold students accountable, they have to be held accountable as well.

 

[W19]

I bet you're the type of student that likes to get spoonfed every little thing. You will be quite a pain to deal with on clinical rotations.

Au contraire, I am a very easy to deal with... Don't tell me that you are instituting a mandatory attendance when you prof do not even respect that. I am not child! You are not going to hold me to a standard that you don't even abide by. Like I said they already labeled me and and another classmate as 'persona non grata' (according to my roommate); I really don't care as long as they respect my rights as a student... I know that every one is scared because the stakes are high, and I think they use that against students...

 

[sinombre]

If the test is hard for everyone, fine with me. I don't think that I am entitled to anything... If they want to hold students accountable, they have to be held accountable as well.

And you see it as your job to keep track of your professors to ensure accountability?

Professors, especially clinical professors, should not be held to the same standard as students, because they are much busier than you are. Many of them have clinical responsibilities that can interfere with lecture times. That's just the way it is.

The fact that you expressed shock that one of your professors cancelled a lecture at the last minute is laughable. How dare the realities of life get in the way of a scheduled lecture! I mean how can you expect someone to deliver information to you via a large round kitchen utensil if they're not even there?

 

[fancymylotus]

I should keep a diary of everything in life that happens that I take issue with

1) why is my boy so far away

2) why is it too cold for pretty dresses

3) why did my boss make me stay late today

etc etc

 

[W19]

And you see it as your job to keep track of your professors to ensure accountability?

Professors, especially clinical professors, should not be held to the same standard as students, because they are much busier than you are. Many of them have clinical responsibilities that can interfere with lecture times. That's just the way it is.

The fact that you expressed shock that one of your professors cancelled a lecture at the last minute is laughable. How dare the realities of life get in the way of a scheduled lecture! I mean how can you expect someone to deliver information to you via a large round kitchen utensil if they're not even there?

The same professor chastised us a week before about us being late... stuff can get in his way, but not the same for us as med students...

 

[sinombre]

The same professor chastised us a week before about us being late... stuff can get in his way, but not the same for us as med students...

You are not equals. You have to earn things in life, and you definitely aren't entitled to the same privileges professors have. What you've been posting is the epitome of entitlement.

 

[W19]

You are not equals. You have to earn things in life, and you definitely aren't entitled to the same privileges professors have. What you've been posting is the epitome of entitlement.

You can call it what you want... I disagree with you. This is my last post regarding this topic.

 

[KnuxNole]

Wait...why would you disagree? The professors are NOT the same as the students in terms of standards. Still, documenting it WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER result in change. I think Obama and his change speech in 2008 made people believe they, as wee individuals can change things in their lives. In reality, it's highly, highly, highly rare for any one person to make an impact really.....

 

[demayette]

@W19 I followed one of your arguments yesterday with @DermViser about finance, what you said certainly made a lot of sense. But today you are way off...borderline insane.

 

[Doudline]

Wait...why would you disagree? The professors are NOT the same as the students in terms of standards. Still, documenting it WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER result in change. I think Obama and his change speech in 2008 made people believe they, as wee individuals can change things in their lives. In reality, it's highly, highly, highly rare for any one person to make an impact really.....

One has to choose one's battles carefully, but come one... bolded is a stupid reason not to stand for what you believe is right.

 

[KnuxNole]

True, standing up for what is right is key. I guess I'm more of a realist. Especially in W19's case, there is little he/she as a person can do to change their school. It would be a rare feat. BUT, there are people devoted to making changes, and making a difference. I was never that person...so there is that disconnect...

 

[DermViser]

One has to choose one's battles carefully, but come one... bolded is a stupid reason not to stand for what you believe is right.

You're right. Being on your medical school's **** list (the same institution that writes your Dean's Letter that goes to all residencies and is a permanent, lifetime part of your record) bc you were personally aggrieved that your Biochem professor was 2 minutes late to lecture is the perfect battle to fight. Power to the People! No Justice, no Peace!

 

[DermViser]

There's standing up for what's right. And then there's making thirty pages of notes over your first three months of med school about every time you feel aggrieved including when professors are 2 minutes late...

Would love to see his diary when he starts internship. 7/7/18: My resident worked me 81 hrs. this week. How dare he!

 

[wadewilson90]

is there no balance? one or two nights a week, a few hours is all i need to be sane.

 

[DermViser]

is there no balance? one or two nights a week, a few hours is all i need to be sane.

General Surgery residency is the last place to bring up "work-life balance", unless you want to be laughed out of the OR.

 

[ACSurgeon]

is there no balance? one or two nights a week, a few hours is all i need to be sane.

Some programs strongly emphasize work-life balance, to the extent possible. This depends on a few things, such as number of residents, the nature of the call schedule or night float system, and both the administration and residents making it happen. During an average week, you will have one or two nights to do whatever you want. The problem is it's hard to know which nights in advance. The lack of predictability rather than the absolute lack of free time is what makes people burn out.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Is lifestyle alone a good enough reason to rule out general surgery? Yes... and it should be the driving reason.

 

[wadewilson90]

I don't need the predicted night, I just need the crash night once in a while. I don't need grand plans or anything. Whether its a night out walking or running or hiking or vegging out, just need to unwind.

 

[username456789]

I don't need the predicted night, I just need the crash night once in a while. I don't need grand plans or anything. Whether its a night out walking or running or hiking or vegging out, just need to unwind.

This works when you're single/no family. It can be less ideal when you're not.

 

[Kaustikos]

I chuckle as I read all of this given my predicament. I've already bitched about it to fml for the past week but I'll just say that I had a situation last Thursday which ruined me. I scrub in a case and ask a question (for the sake of simplicity; did you need a hand retracting) and the attending tells me to shut up and not question his judgement. I do just that but I apparently asked the "wrong" question at the wrong time and was banned from any cases with him.
Did I ask the wrong question? Maybe. Regardless, this is one of the faculty I'm supposed to "impress" during this month and I failed. I made the decision to ask a question that I never in my life would think results in being banned from cases (okay, yes, some people still do that). I wonder what would the big boys on here would do - punch him in the face? Throw him on the ground?
You can't. I can't do anything. I'm one in a million. He's faculty. I screwed up. Go and try complaining to anyone about this incident and see what response you get.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

hahahahahaha

that's another great thing about surgery

I spent three weeks with a guy and his only comment on my evaluation was, "seemed curious but asked questions at inopportune times". This is in reference to a single incident but apparently it's all he remembered

F surgeons

 

[sinombre]

I chuckle as I read all of this given my predicament. I've already bitched about it to fml for the past week but I'll just say that I had a situation last Thursday which ruined me. I scrub in a case and ask a question (for the sake of simplicity; did you need a hand retracting) and the attending tells me to shut up and not question his judgement. I do just that but I apparently asked the "wrong" question at the wrong time and was banned from any cases with him.
Did I ask the wrong question? Maybe. Regardless, this is one of the faculty I'm supposed to "impress" during this month and I failed. I made the decision to ask a question that I never in my life would think results in being banned from cases (okay, yes, some people still do that). I wonder what would the big boys on here would do - punch him in the face? Throw him on the ground?
You can't. I can't do anything. I'm one in a million. He's faculty. I screwed up. Go and try complaining to anyone about this incident and see what response you get.

Well, this might only be worth it if you don't think your situation could get any worse--but you could always speak with him directly and sort of 'apologize,' and explain that you didn't mean to question his judgement and will refrain from doing that sort of thing again in the future (or something along those lines). I mean it sounds absurd, and if it really happened the way you described you clearly did nothing wrong. But if you're already banned it probably can't get much worse, and it might be worth a shot if you really need this guy's approval.