Is IM really like this?

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The culture of consults varies widely with environment and who's running the ship. In my residency, consults were few and far between; we took pride in not consulting others unless there really was a new problem which we could not handle (e.g., Nephro for dialysis; Ortho for trauma cases, etc).

Now out in PP, I see some of the ridiculous consults going on. A friend, colorectal surgeon taking GS call, was consulted by IM on a 20 year old male they'd admitted with abdo pain (not sure how he got to IM first) who did well after a lap procedure for appendicitis; healthy kid, no co-morbidities. She rounds on him POD #1 to see that IM had consulted ID. Different culture. o_O

Exactly. At an academic medical center at least, Surgery takes great pride in personal responsibility for the patient. They really do feel great pride in not consulting others, and handling it on their own, unless it's something quite obvious like the examples you mentioned.

Private community hospitals where RVUs rule the day and are of prime importance, Surgeons consult IM to take care of the flim-flam so that they can use their time and energy to operate, operate, operate.

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STEMI. Cath lab. Problem fixed.

Arrhythmia. Ablation. Fixed

Severe AS. TAVR. Fixed

Heart block. Pacemaker. Fixed

And this is what happens when you drop to DermViser's level. He's a walking provocation.

This thread has become embarrassing all around. I hope you're all clever enough to not actually feel this level of disrespect for other doctors.
 
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And this is what happens when you drop to DermViser's level. He's a walking provocation.

This thread has become embarrassing all around. I hope you're all clever enough to not actually feel this level of disrespect for other doctors.

Your pearls for how doctors should be towards their patients in this thread have been quite hilarious, as an MS-1. Especially the ones that no doctor should care that a patient follows his/her recommendations at all (we're just a guide), and that doctors should videotape their patients to document their non-compliance.
 
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Your pearls for how doctors should be towards their patients in this thread have been quite hilarious, as an MS-1. Especially the ones that no doctor should care that a patient follows his/her recommendations at all (we're just a guide), and that doctors should videotape their patients to document their non-compliance.
1. You're just obnoxious beyond words. Watching you in action on Allo actually abates my own antagonism because of how ugly you look. When you even have conductive points to make, they get lost in your ****ty disposition.

2. I never said doctors should not care whether patients follow medical advice. What I said was, do not allow it to negatively ruin your mood or your enthusiasm for patient care because at the end of the day - you go home and you are fine. Give patient his/her due and don't get all caught up. Are you capable of nuanced differences? You're in derm, so it would suggest you are capable of differentiating information, but I remain unconvinced in your case.

3. And yes, those were pearls you little swine.
 
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Hypocritical coming from you, Mr. Cards. If Derm paid as much as primary care IM, I would still do it - without a doubt. I'm going into Pedi Derm - so the amount of procedures (i.e. skin biopsies, etc.) is much lower.

See my posts above - we have many more available modalities than just steroids, noob. Compare that to your cardiologist - pills and stents.


Your going into pedi derm? What's that like? Do you have to take care of like really bad diaper rashes?
 
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2. I never said doctors should not care whether patients follow medical advice. What I said was, do not allow it to negatively ruin your mood or your enthusiasm for patient care because at the end of the day - you go home and you are fine. Give patient his/her due and don't get all caught up.

You are truly naive if somehow you believe that physicians are wrong to feel the way they do, when patients come to a doctor and continue to followup with that same doctor, and yet don't follow anything he/she says. Meanwhile, they continue to blame the doctor for things not improving. In your world, a doctor should be all hunky dory, bc they're just a "guide" after all, and should skip all the way home.

You probably take H&Ps like this:
 
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Your going into pedi derm? What's that like? Do you have to take care of like really bad diaper rashes?

It's basically an entire field devoted to some of the most absurd amounts of memorization there are. Hundreds of genodermatoses you guys will never hear of, all with eponyms as well. Memorizing all the esoteric findings associated with them.

Even the stuff you've heard of might surprise you. As general dermatologists, we need to know everything about familial dysautonomia syndrome simply because they have loss of their lingual papillae.
 
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Your going into pedi derm? What's that like? Do you have to take care of like really bad diaper rashes?

It's isn't just babies, you ****. A diaper rash can easily be handled just as well by their pediatrician, and they do it well. A better example would be treating infantile hemangioma to keep it from growing and infiltrating the child's eye and going blind. Like I said, Pediatric Derm is not a high procedure based specialty, bc it's rare to do a skin biopsy on a child or even an adolescent. Their kids and their parents, in this specialty, are very thankful and that is gratifying. Now go treat your unending hardon.
 
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It's basically an entire field devoted to some of the most absurd amounts of memorization there are. Hundreds of genodermatoses you guys will never hear of, all with eponyms as well. Memorizing all the esoteric findings associates with them.

Even the stuff you've heard of might surprise you. As general dermatologists, we need to know everything about familial dysautonomia syndrome simply because they have loss of their lingual papillae.

Hahaha I'm just messin around with him . I'm sure it's tough and yeah dermatologists do need to know a lot of crazy names. Most people who are talking **** on derm prolly couldn't have matched into derm (I could have, let's get that clear). I have full respect for that field.
 
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It's basically an entire field devoted to some of the most absurd amounts of memorization there are. Hundreds of genodermatoses you guys will never hear of, all with eponyms as well. Memorizing all the esoteric findings associates with them.

Even the stuff you've heard of might surprise you. As general dermatologists, we need to know everything about familial dysautonomia syndrome simply because they have loss of their lingual papillae.

You do know there are Genodermatoses clinics, right? http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/service/d/dermatology/specialty-services/genodermatoses/

If there were so few patients, it wouldn't even exist (excluding familial dysautonomia syndrome)
 
Of course I do. I never implied that they were super scarce, just that most non-dermatologists will never hear of most of them.

I have a ton of respect for the peds Derm crew, it's just not my bag, baby.

Let me guess, Mohs or Procedural Derm fellowship?
 
Hahaha I'm just messin around with him . I'm sure it's tough and yeah dermatologists do need to know a lot of crazy names. Most people who are talking **** on derm prolly couldn't have matched into derm (I could have, let's get that clear). I have full respect for that field.

Board scores, high class rank, and good grades aren't a straight ticket to derm, unlike other specialties, where the above carries you much farther.
 
STEMI. Cath lab. Problem fixed.

Arrhythmia. Ablation. Fixed

Severe AS. TAVR. Fixed

Heart block. Pacemaker. Fixed

Besides maybe ablation or TAVR, you aren't really fixing the problem. You're only managing it. Hence why all your post STEMIs and pacemaker patients have to continue to follow up with you again and again, for the rest of their life.
 
Board scores, high class rank, and good grades aren't a straight ticket to derm, unlike other specialties, where the above carries you much farther.

Oh yeah? Then id hit them with one of these bad boy letters
"Growing up we never had much, but when my care taker was diagnosed with melanoma, I realized how much we had." And then id continue to go on about how derm was my calling. That was just from the top of my head. I'm prolly getting acceptance letters in the mail right now.
 
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Oh yeah? Then id hit them with one of these bad boy letters
"Growing up we never had much, but when my care taker was diagnosed with melanoma, I realized how much we had." And then id continue to go on about how derm was my calling. That was just from the top of my head. I'm prolly getting acceptance letters in the mail right now.

The ones with PS statements like that, are the ones faculty laugh at bc they know it's fake and dingenuous. Faculty are much smarter than you think they are.
 
Patient satisfaction is a meaningless metric. Why we give it even a smidgen of our attention escapes me.

Bc it's now being used as a quality improvement measure. You can thank Bob Wachter (father of the hospitalist movement).
 
Incoming ms1 here. I've been working full time as a patient aid on a med surg floor and it has certainly been rewarding and a great learning experience, but it has also shown me a lot of negative aspects of medicine. I don't see much improvement in my patients from day to day. The majority of illnesses are suicidal ideations, uncontrolled diabetes, dementia, hypertension, etc. Many of them refuse to help themselves, are frequent patients, or are waiting months to be placed.

I'm just wondering if my perspective is incredibly skewed by being an aid as opposed to the physician. I get kicked, screamed at, pooped and peed on, and a bunch of other things daily.

Is all of IM like this? Is it any more exciting as a med student or physician? I've shadowed specialists in out patient settings and enjoyed it much more (more alert/healthier patients.) Does this mean that I shouldn't consider IM in the future?

Thanks everyone


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I'm sorry that you have had an unsavory or at least unrewarding experience this far.

Let me preface that my opinions are as an attending in emergency medicine at a very very large academic hospital. From this vantage point, I think there are very enjoyable aspects of internal medicine, and every specialty, to be honest. At least of the roles in medicine that I am aware of, there is not perfection to be found. Each role and each practice environment will have unsavory aspects and unrewarding aspects, but generally also have very rewarding ones.

Regarding internal medicine, the inpatient practice will be a concentration of people who are not well and generally not succeeding in their health. The outpatient setting will have the people who are following their doctors recommendations more often and are in decent if not good health.

Also, amidst the more common patient issues requiring hospitalization are occasionally very interesting conditions like typhlitis, and vertebral artery dissections etc. Furthermore and most importantly, I think as an outsider looking into another persons specialty, the stories of the people who are trusting you when they are at their weakest are a big part of what fuels us. It's about getting the mom back on her feet so that she can take care of her kids, or the guy back to college before he misses too much school etc. from asthma or diabetes or whatever ailment they have.

Most of the internists I know including my parents find joy in that.

First hand, I can tell you that if I found satisfaction only in the disease entities, I would become bored and ready to retire. I enjoy teaching students and residents and patients and families, I enjoy the stories, I enjoy te advancement of my science through research. I really love saving someone who is dying in front of me but thankfully this is not common occurrence.

Certainly these are just my thoughts and you may find different emotions and experiences on your pathway but I certainly want you to hear my perspective.

As for deciding upon a specialty or ruling one out already...keep an open mind and when the time comes you have to pick, make the best choice you can. If it doesn't work out the way you want for yourself try and make your situation better by switching practice environments or specialties etc.

Good luck, head up, smile and help how you can.

Cheers,
venko
 
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Alright guys - I've had enough of the name calling. Cut it out.

Almost all of you are behaving childishly and it has to stop.

If you cannot have a civil argument without calling each other names, then this thread will be closed and all of your accounts subjected to administrative action.
 
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And in case anyone thinks I am being cranky: I am cranky today.

As I was drifting off to sleep last night, I heard a very light sound next to my head. Then it became a scratching sound. I looked down at the ground and saw that it couldn't be the cat as he was lying on the floor next to the bed. I switched the light on and saw a scorpion on my pillow. Right next to my head.

I jumped out of bed, dusting myself off, in case he brought friends, and caught him in a Tupperware container. Then I spent the rest of the night trying to sleep with the light on because I was afraid of his friends coming back for vengeance. I was exhausted this morning but fortunately, it was a light day in the OR. I spent the afternoon cleaning out all of the closets, checking out my shoes and bags (that in itself was a big job as I have hundreds of pairs of shoes) and spraying for scorpions.

So cut your **** out because I'm tired and cranky!
 
And in case anyone thinks I am being cranky: I am cranky today.

As I was drifting off to sleep last night, I heard a very light sound next to my head. Then it became a scratching sound. I looked down at the ground and saw that it couldn't be the cat as he was lying on the floor next to the bed. I switched the light on and saw a scorpion on my pillow. Right next to my head.

:wow:
 
Board scores, high class rank, and good grades aren't a straight ticket to derm, unlike other specialties, where the above carries you much farther.

Deleted for decorum
 
And in case anyone thinks I am being cranky: I am cranky today.

As I was drifting off to sleep last night, I heard a very light sound next to my head. Then it became a scratching sound. I looked down at the ground and saw that it couldn't be the cat as he was lying on the floor next to the bed. I switched the light on and saw a scorpion on my pillow. Right next to my head.

That sounds absolutely terrible.
 
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Deleted for decorum

I won't respond to your comment (which is now deleted) with what I want to say, to avoid administrative action. I'll just do this:

umad-small-boy-car.gif
 
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And in case anyone thinks I am being cranky: I am cranky today.

As I was drifting off to sleep last night, I heard a very light sound next to my head. Then it became a scratching sound. I looked down at the ground and saw that it couldn't be the cat as he was lying on the floor next to the bed. I switched the light on and saw a scorpion on my pillow. Right next to my head.

I jumped out of bed, dusting myself off, in case he brought friends, and caught him in a Tupperware container. Then I spent the rest of the night trying to sleep with the light on because I was afraid of his friends coming back for vengeance. I was exhausted this morning but fortunately, it was a light day in the OR. I spent the afternoon cleaning out all of the closets, checking out my shoes and bags (that in itself was a big job as I have hundreds of pairs of shoes) and spraying for scorpions.

So cut your **** out because I'm tired and cranky!

That's terrifying to me. I didn't grow up in an area with scorpions and have never seen one in person. I'm trying to keep it that way.
 
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LOL…

About 7 cm from head to tip of his tail. Still gives me the heebie-jeebies.

The cat is acting strangely; he's looking under the refrigerator and is stalking around the condo. Makes me think he's seen others. :scared:

I moved to an area a few years ago where scorpions are common. I spent much of the first year refusing to walk around barefoot or enter an unlit room. It was quite an adjustment. Luckily none of them were ever 7 cm, and after bimonthly and spot exterminator trips, I haven't seen one indoors in over a year.
 
LOL…

About 7 cm from head to tip of his tail. Still gives me the heebie-jeebies.

The cat is acting strangely; he's looking under the refrigerator and is stalking around the condo. Makes me think he's seen others. :scared:

I had a roach crawl over my face in bed once at my old place. I thought that was bad.
 
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I moved to an area a few years ago where scorpions are common. I spent much of the first year refusing to walk around barefoot or enter an unlit room. It was quite an adjustment. Luckily none of them were ever 7 cm, and after bimonthly and spot exterminator trips, I haven't seen one indoors in over a year.
I spent a few months in a place where lizards scampering along the walls was commonplace. I adjusted quickly, but those aren't scorpions.
 
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I moved to an area a few years ago where scorpions are common. I spent much of the first year refusing to walk around barefoot or enter an unlit room. It was quite an adjustment. Luckily none of them were ever 7 cm, and after bimonthly and spot exterminator trips, I haven't seen one indoors in over a year.

This is the first one I've seen here in 7 years. Normally I'm not squeamish about bugs and the like (well except for snakes) but being close to my head, possibly touching me. Ick.

@southernIM - I have no words. <shudder>
 
I spent a few months in a place where lizards scampering along the walls was commonplace. I adjusted quickly, but those aren't scorpions.

Were they geckos? I spent residency in a place where geckos were all over the place. It helps when you realize how many bugs they eat, kind of like bats.
 
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Really? It seems endo gets diabetic consults(mainly DKA) as the most common ones. I'm sure thyroid storms are legit though...had a cool case with that not too long ago. Same with nephro....AKI that doesn't get better after a day or so gets a demanded consult or get yelled at. For endo, I think at some places, they might be begging for work D:

At my institution DKA's don't get endocrinology consults, otherwise our endocrinologist would be doing nothing else. Not even the complicated cases like DKA in the setting of ESRD. It's a pretty protocoled admission that is bread and butter medicine, and any of our residents should be able to handle it. After taking care of a half dozen of them in my first few months of intern year (none of which we even considered an endocrine consult for), I can probably write admission orders for DKA in my sleep. Hell, we admit most DKA straight to the floor on an insulin drip. Not to the stepdown unit (or the ICU) unless they have some funny comorbidites (like the ESRD).

Thyroid storm is a legitimate reason to consult endocrine though. For sure.

Regarding the AKI, it depends. If they don't meet criteria for emergent dialysis, we don't usually consult nephro unless we're really stumped. Like, we've done the full workup with blood and urine labs+imaging that we can think of and it's all a mixed picture and we're wondering if we should get a renal biopsy stumped. That or if they simply aren't getting better after several days of appropriate treatment for whatever etiology we've figured it out to be. Obviously, if we think they meet criteria for inpatient dialysis, we consult nephro right away, simply because we can't order that.
 
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Gen surg? Yes.

Ortho and neuro sx? The only good admit is the one they can turf to medicine.

Gotta step in for a moment to defend my ortho brethren.

Its undeniable that ortho consults/turfs to IM with an almost embarrassing frequency, but it's not because orthopaedist immediately become mouth-breathers once they start PGY2. Unlike gen surg, ortho doesn't mess with any vital organs and therefore a lot of the IM-type floor work that gen surg retains competency in dealing with is lost early in ortho residency.

Another thing to consider is that, on average, orthopaedic residents deal with a far larger operative volume than gen surg residents. Because there's such a large volume to be dealt with in the OR, the field has essentially given up everything outside of their immediate scope of practice to ensure all the work gets done and residents are appropriately trained by the end of residency. It's not at all uncommon to see stand-alone orthopaedic hospitals at large academic institutions where there are dedicated IM hospitalists to manage things like HTN, DM, AKI, etc...

Just look at the median operative case numbers from the ACGME for residents graduating in 2013:
Ortho: 2223
G Surg: 971

Don't get me wrong, G Surg is indeed a badass field that can handle the sickest patients in the hospital, but their ability to handle IM issues is largely due to the goals of their training and their frequent need to tinker with vital organs.
 
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first time reading this thread and this has to be the most schizophrenic thread in the 3 years I've been here.
 
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This is the first one I've seen here in 7 years. Normally I'm not squeamish about bugs and the like (well except for snakes) but being close to my head, possibly touching me. Ick.

@southernIM - I have no words. <shudder>

A scorpion is as much a bug, as the chupacabra would be a dog.
 
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first time reading this thread and this has to be the most schizophrenic thread in the 3 years I've been here.

You apparently have not been to the medical student selling her virginity thread.
 
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