Is DO possible after MD school?

[TreeDoctor]

Hello SDN, I'm a US student who moved from New York to study medicine abroad in Asia.
However, things are tight financially (no loans, paying out of pocket) and family issues have made me decide to change my path. I have one year left to graduate but its not that simple. Even after graduating I'd need a few years and $$ to prepare for match which is far from guaranteed.


Anyways,
I'm 1 year away from finishing my degree here, but am ready to drop out and join a Post bacc/SMP program to prepare for DO applications.
Should I drop out or finish this degree before applying to DO schools?

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[DO2015CA]

You shouldn’t lie. Ever. Financial hardship? American medical schools are among the most expensive in the world. Also, is it a carib or other medical school

 

[TreeDoctor]

Asian MD school. I see, I will give them all the info then.

Does it make sense to finish the degree or just quit now?

 

[Seihai]

Asian MD. I see, I will give them all the info then.

Does it make sense to finish the degree or just quit now?

If you're going to quit a medical program in another country because of financial hardships, going to the US isn't going to help. DO and MD programs in the US are some of the most expensive in the world, and you'll face the exact same hardships (if not worse) here if you're currently facing them at home.

This is notwithstanding the fact that previously dropping out of medical school is one of the biggest red flags that exist on any med school application.

Finish your degree.

 

[TreeDoctor]

Financially it would be way easier since I could get loans for a DO. Right now I'm paying out of pocket.

So, finishing a medical degree then applying to a DO program after some post bacc/SMP makes sense? or will they just reject me straight away since I already have an MD?

 

[DO2015CA]

are you a US citizen?

 

[TreeDoctor]

Yes

 

[DO2015CA]

Hmm check the DO emigre program through nyit. It’s design for FMG to practice in the US but idk if us citizens are excluded. I think the consensus about finishing your degree is yes because at least you could obtain a residency in that country if nothing else. There is no guarantee you will get into a US program if you drop out

 

[TreeDoctor]

Yes, I'm excluded from NYITCOM's emigre program.

Doctors in the country I am studying in earn less than 4,000 dollars a year. (yes, four thousand)

 

[Whysoez]

Yes, I'm excluded from NYITCOM's emigre program.

Doctors in the country I am studying in earn less than 4,000 dollars a year. (yes, four thousand)

In Asia doctors have other means to rack in much higher income (less obvious on paper lol).

 

[Medic741]

What made you choose the path you’re on? I’m genuinely curious...

 

[Goro]

Hello SDN, I'm a US student who moved from New York to study medicine abroad in Asia.
However, things are tight financially (no loans, paying out of pocket) and family issues have made me decide to change my path. I have one year left to graduate but its not that simple. Even after graduating I'd need a few years and $$ to prepare for match which is far from guaranteed.


Anyways,
I'm 1 year away from finishing my degree here, but am ready to drop out and join a Post bacc/SMP program to prepare for DO applications.
Should I drop out or finish this degree before applying to DO schools?

I can't sugar coat this, I wouldn't waste a seat on someone who has made such poor life choices.

 

[Medic741]

I can't sugar coat this, I wouldn't waste a seat on someone who has made such poor life choices.

Yeah, at what point did you not do the math there...

 

[Seihai]

Noting that you're actually a US student... You've already made terrible decisions when you decided to go abroad to complete a medical degree. Don't make another one by dropping out of medical school with the hopes of getting into a DO school here, because I'd think almost every school here would reject you on the basis of making the poor decision to leave the country to pursue medicine only to drop out anyways.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Honestly prbly a better chance if OP studies hard for STEP 1 and 2 and CS, scores well and applies for Community FM or IM, they might have a better chance then trying to go to DO school and another 4 more years of school. OP is also a US citizen so that helps him out over other FMG;s.

 

[deleted859689]

Honestly prbly a better chance if OP studies hard for STEP 1 and 2 and CS, scores well and applies for Community FM or IM, they might have a better chance then trying to go to DO school and another 4 more years of school. OP is also a US citizen so that helps him out over other FMG;s.

This is good advice. If you fail to match in the US, then I guess you could go for an SMP and apply DO instead of driving for uber - mileage may vary.

 

[hallowmann]

Hello SDN, I'm a US student who moved from New York to study medicine abroad in Asia.
However, things are tight financially (no loans, paying out of pocket) and family issues have made me decide to change my path. I have one year left to graduate but its not that simple. Even after graduating I'd need a few years and $$ to prepare for match which is far from guaranteed.


Anyways,
I'm 1 year away from finishing my degree here, but am ready to drop out and join a Post bacc/SMP program to prepare for DO applications.
Should I drop out or finish this degree before applying to DO schools?

Finish your degree, you're too close to stop now, unless your program is not recognized by ECFMG/US state medical boards. It'll be far cheaper spending money on board review, USMLEs, and GME applications than an SMP program. If things don't work out in the match, then try your luck for DO. The potential benefit of matching and saving hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of your life is worth the risk of not matching.

 

[TreeDoctor]

Ok, I stay at my current med school. Tuition is ~4k per year.
1 year more of classes that are 75% worthless and don't help at all in preparing for a job in a 1st world country.
Thankfully classes only waste half the day usually so I prep for step 1.
I can pass step 1 and do well at it.
I have no clinical experience.
Getting clinical experience will cost ~14k for 3 months and it will still only be "inpatient observership w/ limited hands on"
since all other programs now require VSLO.
If I work full time at a minimum wage job for 8 months while living with my parents I can save that up. Its probably just any job I can find, not even healthcare related since I'm short on time. (MUST pass all steps before ECFMG 2023 cutoff).

Then I pass step 2 ck and cs, and turn in my documents in time to apply.
I will need to borrow money from parents (if possible at all) to pay for applying to match since IMGs must send out hundreds of applications.
Plus pay for step 2ck/cs. Close to 7k total.
I wait one year to match while continuing to work my minimum wage job. At this point I can probably find a studio apartment.

3 years, 25 thousand dollars, chances to match a malignant FM/IM from a completely unknown medical university in a poor country= 50% perhaps?

I fail to match. Now I've wasted years of time. I will be old. I continue working my minimum wage job.


Option 2

I quit med school.
I get a minimum wage job thats at least somehow related to healthcare.
I'm under a bit less time pressure so I figure a way to rent the cheapest studio apartment and at least have some quality of life.
I take classes and improve my portfolio.
I apply to a DO program....or even a Carribean program.
(At the very least, Carribean schools are a known quantity. Program directors take their grads all the time. The whole country I am studying in has maybe 10 of its graduates in US residencies at the moment.)
I have more debt, but I get a primary care job in a priority area to get partial loan repayment.


As to someone who asked "why I didn't do the math earlier", my answer is that there were other issues I had to consider which led me down this path. Some which were my choice and others which were out of my control.

 

[Whysoez]

Ok, I stay at my current med school. Tuition is ~4k per year.
1 year more of classes that are 75% worthless and don't help at all in preparing for a job in a 1st world country.
Thankfully classes only waste half the day usually so I prep for step 1.
I can pass step 1 and do well at it.
I have no clinical experience.
Getting clinical experience will cost ~14k for 3 months and it will still only be "inpatient observership w/ limited hands on"
since all other programs now require VSLO.
If I work full time at a minimum wage job for 8 months while living with my parents I can save that up. Its probably just any job I can find, not even healthcare related since I'm short on time. (MUST pass all steps before ECFMG 2023 cutoff).

Then I pass step 2 ck and cs, and turn in my documents in time to apply.
I will need to borrow money from parents (if possible at all) to pay for applying to match since IMGs must send out hundreds of applications.
Plus pay for step 2ck/cs. Close to 7k total.
I wait one year to match while continuing to work my minimum wage job. At this point I can probably find a studio apartment.

3 years, 25 thousand dollars, chances to match a malignant FM/IM from a completely unknown medical university in a poor country= 50% perhaps?

I fail to match. Now I've wasted years of time. I will be old. I continue working my minimum wage job.


Option 2

I quit med school.
I get a minimum wage job thats at least somehow related to healthcare.
I'm under a bit less time pressure so I figure a way to rent the cheapest studio apartment and at least have some quality of life.
I take classes and improve my portfolio.
I apply to a DO program....or even a Carribean program.
(At the very least, Carribean schools are a known quantity. Program directors take their grads all the time. The whole country I am studying in has maybe 10 of its graduates in US residencies at the moment.)
I have more debt, but I get a primary care job in a priority area to get partial loan repayment.


As to someone who asked "why I didn't do the math earlier", my answer is that there were other issues I had to consider which led me down this path. Some which were my choice and others which were out of my control.

Seems like you have your own answer. Got for it then.

 

[Splenda88]

I have seen it done before(n =1), but that person quit after 1 year (Carib school). Now he is a DO PGY2. Many DO schools are forgiven if you have the stats.

Quit and start over again. Since you're attending a school abroad and you do not get federal loan, you don't have to check the box that you attended medical school when you are filling out AMCAS/AACOMAS. But that will be a lie and it's up to you if you want to lie.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Ok, I stay at my current med school. Tuition is ~4k per year.
1 year more of classes that are 75% worthless and don't help at all in preparing for a job in a 1st world country.
Thankfully classes only waste half the day usually so I prep for step 1.
I can pass step 1 and do well at it.
I have no clinical experience.
Getting clinical experience will cost ~14k for 3 months and it will still only be "inpatient observership w/ limited hands on"
since all other programs now require VSLO.
If I work full time at a minimum wage job for 8 months while living with my parents I can save that up. Its probably just any job I can find, not even healthcare related since I'm short on time. (MUST pass all steps before ECFMG 2023 cutoff).

Then I pass step 2 ck and cs, and turn in my documents in time to apply.
I will need to borrow money from parents (if possible at all) to pay for applying to match since IMGs must send out hundreds of applications.
Plus pay for step 2ck/cs. Close to 7k total.
I wait one year to match while continuing to work my minimum wage job. At this point I can probably find a studio apartment.

3 years, 25 thousand dollars, chances to match a malignant FM/IM from a completely unknown medical university in a poor country= 50% perhaps?

I fail to match. Now I've wasted years of time. I will be old. I continue working my minimum wage job.


Option 2

I quit med school.
I get a minimum wage job thats at least somehow related to healthcare.
I'm under a bit less time pressure so I figure a way to rent the cheapest studio apartment and at least have some quality of life.
I take classes and improve my portfolio.
I apply to a DO program....or even a Carribean program.
(At the very least, Carribean schools are a known quantity. Program directors take their grads all the time. The whole country I am studying in has maybe 10 of its graduates in US residencies at the moment.)
I have more debt, but I get a primary care job in a priority area to get partial loan repayment.


As to someone who asked "why I didn't do the math earlier", my answer is that there were other issues I had to consider which led me down this path. Some which were my choice and others which were out of my control.

I am sorry but I don’t understand your rational at all hahaha. Ok so it will cost you about $25,000 to study for steps, get US clinical experience and apply for the match. It will cost you $50-60k in just 1 year of DO school lol. You can borrow the $25k from your parents and pay them back later or get a loan idk how tho. If you do well on your step you will match Community FM and IM. Idk what you mean by a poor “country” but even the malignant programs will let you become a doctor and practice and make money lol. Don’t go to the Caribbean because thier rep with the PD’a aren’t that great and you will likely still match at a malignant program and will still have to score well on your steps. Also your chances of getting into a DO school once you admit that you were at an offshore MD school and have your MD or if you drop out are pretty much 0, so that really isn’t an option for you. Even doing an SMP won’t help as once the schools see that you already have an MD or dropped out after 3 years they will immediately throw out your app, also an SMP is gonna cost a lot of $$$. It was kind of a terrible/hasty decision on your part to attend a foreign MD school without trying to get into USMD and DO schools if your ultimate goal was to practice in the US. Unfortunately the only option is to finish your degree and hope to match into FM or IM.

 

[never-too-late]

Have you considered how difficult it is to get into even a DO school? The ~40% acceptance rate for medical applicants in any given year includes DO schools. So if you quit and don’t get in, then what? And it’s too late to apply this year. And have you taken the MCAT? At the very least you won’t gain admission till next year, so why not just finish and then you don’t have the ethical issues of not disclosing your school. Can you imagine how hard it will be to hide that fact for all 4 years of school and then into your residency? And you will have to hide it or risk getting thrown out for lying on your application. And if you think you can manage that, you don’t have the ethics to be a physician. Sorry, that’s something you really need to wrestle with long before someone’s life is in your hands!

 

[TreeDoctor]

get a loan idk how tho

I don't have a solid idea on how I will afford to pass Step 2 CK/CS in time to meet ECFMG 2023 restrictions (and do clinical rotations).

and then you don’t have the ethical issues of not disclosing your school

Wait, if I finish the school vs not finishing it does that have an impact?
Does actually completing a foreign MD look any different in the eyes of an admissions committee?

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Yah, I don't think have a solid idea on how I will afford to pass Step 2 CK/CS in time to meet ECFMG 2023 locations (and do clinical rotations).




Wait, if I finish the school vs not finishing it does that have an impact?
Does actually completing a foreign MD look any different in the eyes of an admissions committee?

Once you disclose to them that you matriculated to an MD school and were there for 3+ years or actually got your MD degree it will make it much harder to get in to a DO school as it is a huge red flag that your reapplying to medical school again.

 

[Seihai]

I don't have a solid idea on how I will afford to pass Step 2 CK/CS in time to meet ECFMG 2023 restrictions (and do clinical rotations).




Wait, if I finish the school vs not finishing it does that have an impact?
Does actually completing a foreign MD look any different in the eyes of an admissions committee?

Dropping out is far, far worse than completing the degree. Dropping out will kill your application. Not disclosing is a terrible idea as you'd probably be expelled once they do find out (and it's really not that hard to find prior enrollments, even in other countries).

 

[Whysoez]

I don't have a solid idea on how I will afford to pass Step 2 CK/CS in time to meet ECFMG 2023 restrictions (and do clinical rotations).




Wait, if I finish the school vs not finishing it does that have an impact?
Does actually completing a foreign MD look any different in the eyes of an admissions committee?

Since you are living in Asia, it's time to consider the pros and cons of living with just one kidney.

 

[TreeDoctor]

Am I entertaining enough for you? Some people are giving real advice and helping me becoming a doctor. Others are laughing.

 

[never-too-late]

Wait, if I finish the school vs not finishing it does that have an impact?
Does actually completing a foreign MD look any different in the eyes of an admissions committee?

I don't honestly know, but I suspect dropping out of the foreign program looks worse than completing it.

You asked what your chances are: the experts have chimed in that they are slim to none. Again, I would caution you that DO is not an easy track, I know it is *easier* to get into than MD, but it's still hard. Suggesting anything else is insulting to a group of really smart and motivated students. We had to work for it, had to get above average GPAs, and MCAT scores, we had to apply and do all the right things. It just happens that of the ~41% of applicants who get into medical school our stats are on the lower end of things. So what are your stats?

You say you had reasons for doing what you did, so I suppose if those reasons are compelling enough, they could possibly overcome what otherwise looks like a bad decision. You won't know until you try, but I would not risk compounding one bad decision with another. And you need to prepare for the possibility that this won't happen. As an international student (someone who has lived and studied in more than one country) I suspect you have more awareness of how to operate in more than one system. Use that to your advantage and look for other ways to convert your MD into a viable practice somewhere in the world. Because no one should go into this process without a back-up plan.

 

[Goro]

I don't honestly know, but I suspect dropping out of the foreign program looks worse than completing it.

You asked what your chances are: the experts have chimed in that they are slim to none. Again, I would caution you that DO is not an easy track, I know it is *easier* to get into than MD, but it's still hard. Suggesting anything else is insulting to a group of really smart and motivated students. We had to work for it, had to get above average GPAs, and MCAT scores, we had to apply and do all the right things. It just happens that of the ~41% of applicants who get into medical school our stats are on the lower end of things. So what are your stats?

You say you had reasons for doing what you did, so I suppose if those reasons are compelling enough, they could possibly overcome what otherwise looks like a bad decision. You won't know until you try, but I would not risk compounding one bad decision with another. And you need to prepare for the possibility that this won't happen. As an international student (someone who has lived and studied in more than one country) I suspect you have more awareness of how to operate in more than one system. Use that to your advantage and look for other ways to convert your MD into a viable practice somewhere in the world. Because no one should go into this process without a back-up plan.

Dropping out of any medical school carries the stench of the likelihood of one who has failed out.

 

[Splenda88]

OP, do what best for you... also have a plan B (NP, PA, DPM etc...)

 

[deleted859689]

Am I entertaining enough for you? Some people are giving real advice and helping me becoming a doctor. Others are laughing.

My advice is to think before you act and really research the career path you want to take. There are different ways to become a doctor and if you want to go to practice in the US it makes sense to go to a US school. I don’t know if your family forced you to go to this school in Asia, or if you were just misinformed, but you need to take responsibility for your decisions as an adult. Real advice helping you become a doctor? Finish in that Asian school and work in that country to help people who are in need of medical attention. Congrats you are a doctor, just not in the US.

 

[TreeDoctor]

****This the is the brother of the original poster writing now.
My brother was a student at U Cincinnati med and top of his class. Unfortunately, he fell ill with bipolar + psychosis. He is now at home for several years under our parents care. Often, during his episodes he pretends he is still a medical student. He uses VPNs, multiple email accounts, and other tactics to troll forums. In fact, he will often write and respond to his own threads. I am changing the password to his account now so he can't cause any more mischief. Please, on behalf of our family don't hold this against all mentally ill people. I will speak to his therapist about this behaviour. Thank you.

-Sam L.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Okay, well on that note, I'll be closing this thread.