I just owned a nurse.

[doc02]

There's a nurse at my hospital who is known for being a female dog because apparently every year she goes out of her way to tell interns that she is in charge. The way she does it, and I'm sure a lot of people know nurses like this, is that she finds them when they are new and acts extremely belligerant and tells them "you WILL do this" or "you do things MY way." Yes, she actually says this.

Today, I guess she thought it was my turn. So I was on the floors and she literally goes, "hey, YOU, get over here." And I just looked at her and then said, "what do you want?" So she says, "you're going to put in an order for me." That's when I owned her. She was in front of a bunch of other nurses, who were enjoying what they thought was going to be another "intern education session." So I walked up to her and told her "I don't put in orders at random, I assess the situation and make decisions. Then I put in orders that I find appropriate and then you carry them out. That's the way things work with me and that's how things are going to work with you from now on."

She was stunned and all the other nurses immediately turned in their chairs so they were suddenly not facing me. It was great. And for anyone who thinks what I said was inappropriate, it's far less inappropriate than her actions, which should have gotten her wide ass canned a long time ago. The sad part is that there are nurses like this everywhere.

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[elwademd]

hopefully you don't end up getting written up and/or a meeting with your program director!

your comments don't sound inappropriate though.

 

[doc02]

No, she can't write me up because nothing I said is reportable. What's she going to do, complain that I assess the patients and use clinical thinking? It's sad because, all joking aside, she's this pathetic 50-something-year-old nurse and this is how she gets her kicks. She actually gathered together her little dumb audience at the nurse's station and acted all tough. And then someone half her age totally slaps her down onto the floor.

 

[doc02]

You know what's sad? You read what I wrote and your first reaction was that you wondered if I would get in trouble. Can you imagine if I acted like her and was like, "hey, YOU, get over here, I'm going to tell you what to do and you'll do it!"? I'd probably be fired on the spot. And yet you're telling me that my response may get me disciplined? That's a sad state of affairs with residency training. I'm on call tonight, maybe if I get bored I'll go and see if I need to walk the dog again.

 

[CatsandCradles]

There's a nurse at my hospital who is known for being a female dog because apparently every year she goes out of her way to tell interns that she is in charge. The way she does it, and I'm sure a lot of people know nurses like this, is that she finds them when they are new and acts extremely belligerant and tells them "you WILL do this" or "you do things MY way." Yes, she actually says this.

Today, I guess she thought it was my turn. So I was on the floors and she literally goes, "hey, YOU, get over here." And I just looked at her and then said, "what do you want?" So she says, "you're going to put in an order for me." That's when I owned her. She was in front of a bunch of other nurses, who were enjoying what they thought was going to be another "intern education session." So I walked up to her and told her "I don't put in orders at random, I assess the situation and make decisions. Then I put in orders that I find appropriate and then you carry them out. That's the way things work with me and that's how things are going to work with you from now on."

She was stunned and all the other nurses immediately turned in their chairs so they were suddenly not facing me. It was great. And for anyone who thinks what I said was inappropriate, it's far less inappropriate than her actions, which should have gotten her wide ass canned a long time ago. The sad part is that there are nurses like this everywhere.

Let us know how tommorrow and the next several days pan out.

 

[doc02]

Let us know how tommorrow and the next several days pan out.

Again, sad. I'm not saying you support her, maybe you do. Look at your response. You anticipate some sort of nursing retribution for what? Read my response again and tell me what was inappropriate. Read her words and tell me what was appropriate.

I rotate through a few affiliate hospitals and I had to deal with this behavior before. I'll tell you how it works out. They try to irritate me and I just do the same thing I did above. I politely tell them that I'm in charge and guess what? It's like dealing with children. First, you get an escalation in harrassment and then you break them in and they stop because they recognize that I am indeed in charge. I don't like it because I'd rather work with adults, but if they're going to act like children I'll treat them as such.

 

[elwademd]

as a 3rd year resident, i've had similar situations... and nurses complained. ended up meeting with my program director. when i asked what specifically was said... there was no answer, as the nurses didn't want to officially go on record about it. so, officially i wasn't and am not in trouble about it... but unofficially i am, lol.

i also had an intern who would stand up for himself in a similar manner to you... and i ended up being asked by my program director if he treated the nurses fairly on the floor. my answer was unequivocally that he treated nurses fairly and appropriately.

don't get me wrong, i don't think what you did was inappropriate. if you were my intern, and that happened, i wouldn't have thought anything about it. i expect nursing retribution because, in my experience, that's what nurses will do. i think it was snoopybrown who pointed out before that nurses have time for these petty games, whereas we physicians, typically, don't have time for it.

 

[smq123]

Today, I guess she thought it was my turn. So I was on the floors and she literally goes, "hey, YOU, get over here." And I just looked at her and then said, "what do you want?" So she says, "you're going to put in an order for me." That's when I owned her. She was in front of a bunch of other nurses, who were enjoying what they thought was going to be another "intern education session." So I walked up to her and told her "I don't put in orders at random, I assess the situation and make decisions. Then I put in orders that I find appropriate and then you carry them out. That's the way things work with me and that's how things are going to work with you from now on."

You know - I hope nothing bad happens to you. That's no way for her to talk to a colleague. Just because you have less experience than she does (and are younger than she is) doesn't mean that she can talk to you with an absolute lack of courtesy.

I have heard enough horror stories to worry that she might find a way to get back at you, but I think it's great that you stood up for yourself.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

I hope the best for you.

Honestly you did nothing wrong. Maybe you were a bit curt, a bit tactless, but what you were said was true and appropriate.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if you get called into discuss with your superior about your "abusive and harassing behavior"

 

[Top Gun]

You know - I hope nothing bad happens to you. That's no way for her to talk to a colleague. Just because you have less experience than she does (and are younger than she is) doesn't mean that she can talk to you with an absolute lack of courtesy.

I have heard enough horror stories to worry that she might find a way to get back at you, but I think it's great that you stood up for yourself.

I have to agree with this post. Its admirable that you were able to stand up for yourself. Unfortunately, this particular nurse may find a way to screw you over for it, even though your words were polite. She may complain to your program director or have her nurses page you incessantly. Its too bad that the system is geared to screw residents over just for standing up for themselves.

 

[doc02]

Well, I have tried to be nice and polite to nurses. But this is what I've learned. They're completely unprofessional and a lot of that is because, frankly, they're female.

For example, you're new, right? And keep in mind that you're working in a hospital and trying to treat patients with medical problems. In the middle of this, while you're trying to focus on a differential diagnosis, suddenly some nurse is trying to "test" you. Maybe you sit down in HER chair (when she's not in it, of course) or you use HER computer. Game over! You're a "bad" doctor! Unless, of course, you jump up like a monkey and stammer out an apology and say, "I'm so sorry, I didn't know that was your seat, excuse me!"

Are you kidding?

I don't have time for stupid games like that and I don't know who does. But it's like they think you're their children or something and they're trying to teach you some lesson on how to behave. Like, where the HELL is their priority or their professionalism? Why don't you just do your job and raise your kids on your own time like the rest of us?

 

[umza]

Professionalism is not gender dependent.

 

[Dienekes]

Professionalism is not gender dependent.

It also isn't dependent on possession of a higher degree either apparently.

 

[Top Gun]

Professionalism is not gender dependent.

I have to agree with this. I've seen some male physicians who can be real a$$holes. So I doubt there's any correlation between being female and lack of professionalism.

 

[Faebinder]

To main op: I hope nothing bad happens to you. Good job standing up for yourself. It's an f-ed up world we live in.

 

[doc02]

It also isn't dependent on possession of a higher degree either apparently.

I'd accept that if you could point out exactly how the nurse was being appropriate or how I was being inappropriate. Either one. Otherwise, all you're doing is saying "the nurse is right just because she's a nurse and I like nurses probably because I am one, so anyone who says a nurse is wrong is wrong by definition."

By the way, for everyone else (who was making much more sense than Dienekes), I didn't mean that men can't be jerks. What I meant was that it's curious how nurses all act in the same way. They all think that they are Miss Manners and the definition of politeness and that anyone who doesn't behave the way they like needs to be corrected (by them). And yet they are perhaps some of the rudest people as a group in the hospital! As a group, I've never met anyone else more unprofessional. They act like they are your mother and are there to "teach you how to act." And while they demand that people be excruciatingly polite to them, they feel free to abuse people at a whim for any reason. I sat down in an unoccupied chair in an empty nursing station today and a few minutes later when a nurse came around the corner, she goes, "uh uh, that's my seat, I don't think you want to be sitting there." You don't? What is that, a threat? Of course, it is! What if I acted like that? What if I was like, "hey, you're standing in my spot, I think you know what will happen if you don't move"? You think that would be tolerated?

I think it's a culture, too, because the younger nurses are just normal. You can act like a normal human around them and they react like normal humans. But after a few years of being around the other nurses, suddenly it's the same with them, too.

By the way, the nurse tried to get back at me and I owned her again. And I'll keep owning her like she's my property.

 

[Blade28]

I understand your pain and frustration. Truly, I do.

But just be careful...though you're in the right here, many times when nurses decide to talk to their supervisor, administrator, or your program director about this type of issue, you'll lose.

Residents lose most fights with nurses.

So just be careful. Don't be a pushover, be firm and assertive, but choose your battles wisely.

 

[Top Gun]

I understand your pain and frustration. Truly, I do.

But just be careful...though you're in the right here, many times when nurses decide to talk to their supervisor, administrator, or your program director about this type of issue, you'll lose.

Residents lose most fights with nurses.

I've never understood that. Why should the program director automatically side with the nurses? Its not like the nurses help keep the residency program running.

 

[Dienekes]

Residents lose most fights with nurses.

This is the point I was trying to make to the OP. Don't pick fights you can't win or can win but will cost you the war, simply for the sake of "owning" someone or proving that your penis is, in fact, not a full quartile below the mean in both length and girth. (Not saying this about the OP, just using it as an example)

Why should the program director automatically side with the nurses?

It's not automatic, but it just happens a good percentage of the time.

Its not like the nurses help keep the residency program running.

They keep hospitals running smoothly and if you piss them off, things get very difficult, very fast. A lot of people (read as: med students and residents) tend to overlook or outright fail to realize that. The OP would have done far better to engage in a little quid pro quo ("I'll check out the patient, and consider writing the order for you, but you will have to....") with the nurse rather than trying to "own" her.

 

[elwademd]

I've never understood that. Why should the program director automatically side with the nurses? Its not like the nurses help keep the residency program running.

my thoughts, since i've felt that this has happened to me:

some program directors may feel that their program will get a "bad reputation" if a nurse bad mouths a resident... so, paradoxically, they end up chastising the resident.

it doesn't matter whether the nurse was right or wrong. it doesn't matter what actually happened. simply, the program director wants the complaints to stop. the easiest way for that to happen is to end it with the residents who are in his/her "control".

in my situation, no official reprimand was made... specific incident(s) were never mentioned, but i was told my behavior needed to change!

 

[fang]

Well, I have tried to be nice and polite to nurses. But this is what I've learned. They're completely unprofessional and a lot of that is because, frankly, they're female.

I was with you right up to here. If anything, women tend to be more professional than men IMO. And as you know, women who are nurses do not equal all women. (Also, *most* nurses are not harpies... in critical moments, good nurses are truely your best friend.)

In any case, here's what you should have said:

nurse -- "hey, YOU, get over here."
you --ignore her in front of the other nurses
nurse-- "I said, HEY YOU!!"
you -- "Hang on a moment, I'm in the middle of something, be there in a sec." (big smile and eye contact)
Then proceed to wait at least 5 minutes before addressing whatever she wants.

Or something else to show her that you won't be controlled but in a very unemotional, minimalist kind of way that won't create the drama that these overworked and yet simultaneously bored individuals absolutely CRAVE. Instead what you've done is played right into her fantasy... the young, cocky intern who won't listen to the seasoned down-to-earth nurse and is rude to her despite the 20 year disparity in experience. Get ready for 2AM pages for colace, neglecting to remind you to hold the lovenox before a planned procedure, complaining about orders in front of your superiors, and repeated interruptions while you're trying to crank out notes and leave.

Working with (certain) nurses is like dancing with a porkupine (e.g. it's all about grace and minimal contact); you've just intentionally stepped on her paw and now all her spines are pointed in your direction. Good luck with that.

 

[Faebinder]

I've never understood that. Why should the program director automatically side with the nurses? Its not like the nurses help keep the residency program running.

It goes back to the definition of a program director....

Program Director:proh-gram di-rek-ter. A sith lord that utilizes the dark side of the force(medicine). In any program, there are always two sith lords, a master and an apprentice. Generally these sith lords are the master of their programs but occasionally are the apprentices and work under a higher master called "The Chairman". Occasionally, they have their own apprentices known as "Associate Program Director" or "Assistant Program Director". Program Directors are capable of using the force to: crush the will power of residents, shoot electrical waves (and orders) at various residents and students, end the life (well at least the career) of the residents. They are masters of the light saber and a confrontation between them and any young resident (jedi knight) usually results with the defeat, humiliation (probation) and utter destruction (dismissal from the program) of the foolish upstart.

 

[Blade28]

I've never understood that. Why should the program director automatically side with the nurses? Its not like the nurses help keep the residency program running.

In orientation, we were told by our Chairman that "good nurses are impossible to replace...but residents are expendable." He said this with a little tongue-in-cheek, but the point was made. There are always a ton of replacement residents in line ready to take our spot.

It goes back to the definition of a program director....

Program Director:proh-gram di-rek-ter. A sith lord that utilizes the dark side of the force(medicine). In any program, there are always two sith lords, a master and an apprentice.

Ah, a fellow Star Wars fan! The Force is strong with you.

 

[Doctor]

Well, I have tried to be nice and polite to nurses. But this is what I've learned. They're completely unprofessional and a lot of that is because, frankly, they're female.

Ouch! What a horrible thing to say. At any rate, my brother-in-law is a nurse so if he is unprofessional, it isn't because he is female. If nurses do tend to be less professional than other professions, I'd say it's because they are a little less educated (than doctors anyway) and because the occupation is facing such great demand that there may not be much of a "weeding out" process since they are needed so very badly.

 

[jessica84]

Ouch! What a horrible thing to say. At any rate, my brother-in-law is a nurse so if he is unprofessional, it isn't because he is female. If nurses do tend to be less professional than other professions, I'd say it's because they are a little less educated (than doctors anyway) and because the occupation is facing such great demand that there may not be much of a "weeding out" process since they are needed so very badly.

While you are trying to make a comment in defense of nurses, be careful with what you just said. I am a student nurse and, despite the fact that I do not have a medical degree, I am not unprofessional nor would I ever (no matter how many years of experience I had) talk to residents, med. students, other nurses or anyone for that matter in the way that the OP mentioned. Professionalism does not depend on ones gender nor degree, and we all should know that. I've seen both doctors and nurses who were jerks, and I've also seen doctors and nurses (both male and female) who were very professional, kind and eager to help one another.

To the OP, hmmm... saying you "own a nurse" isn't very professional either. I am sorry to hear about your experience with the nurses. The way the nurse spoke with you was wrong and for the other nurses to follow allong watching for entertainment? Ridiculous (on their part). (Not all nurses are like that. You're just unlucky in your situation.) I would have been ticked-off too, but you need to take the higher road and remain professional. Do not allow her to talk that way to you, but at the same time, maintain a professional manner. (You'll get more respect if you do. Believe me.) There's a fineline between being assertive and not being a jerk, but if handled tactfully, you can earn the respect of colleagues while also being viewed as someone who is professional and friendly.

Sometime those cranky colleagues just need someone to (gently) stand up to them (since they're not used to it) and they'll back down. (Their bark is bigger than their bite.) I've seen these cranky people in every job I've ever had. Male and female. Treat her with kindness (ughh...I know it's hard) but also don't let her push you around.

And don't generalize all nurses. I'm the last type of person who would ever do this to anyone, AND I'm a female. Go figure.

cranky nurse: "Hey, YOU, get over here."

You: *Ingore*

Cranky nurse: "Hey, YOU."

You: *politely* "Are you speaking to me?" (as you wish to tell her off at this moment but hold back) "If you don't know my name, it's Dr. so and so."

Cranky nurse: "you're going to put in an order for me."

You: "Well, I'm sorry, but I cannot do that without first assessing the patient and the situation. I'd be happy to evaluate the situation and will place an order if needed."

 

[travoltage]

thats awesome! keep it up...show them whose boss

 

[filter07]

I always hear these horror stories about nurses. I still get a lot of... trivial pages... but the ones I work with treat me with a lot of respect. Sometimes I think it's way too much respect. They must have been beaten down too much in the past or something. I almost feel apologetic for how they are always getting out of my way, saying sorry for bumping into me (even though it might be my fault), quickly move things out of the desk when I mistakenly sit in a chair they had been working on... is this how it works in the South?

 

[jessica84]

I always hear these horror stories about nurses. I still get a lot of... trivial pages... but the ones I work with treat me with a lot of respect. Sometimes I think it's way too much respect. They must have been beaten down too much in the past or something. I almost feel apologetic for how they are always getting out of my way, saying sorry for bumping into me (even though it might be my fault), quickly move things out of the desk when I mistakenly sit in a chair they had been working on... is this how it works in the South?

Haha That's funny. (or maybe its' not really.) It sounds to me like they've had their experience with a few arrogant jerks for doctors. That would be my guess. I'm sure they're more than happy to have you working with them. Glad to hear you realize that you their behavior is a little over the top, atleast you're grounded and polite. Some people (like the guy above you) would take advantage of the situation.

It could just be their way of being very polite. Is it ALL of them or is it one or two nurses? There could be a a number of reasons: either they are appreciative of the fact that you are polite to them and they are used to jerky doctors and are afraid you may blow-up at any time, or they are not confident because they are really new and have heard horror stories about jerky doctors (just like you all hear stories about nurses.)

 

[jessica84]

thats awesome! keep it up...show them whose boss

Show them who's boss? Give me a break. If you have that attitude as a doctor, you won't get along with anyone (and you will be the one getting those 3am pages from those grouchy nurses that everyone hears about).

 

[Red Beard]

Show them who's boss? Give me a break. If you have that attitude as a doctor, you won't get along with anyone (and you will be the one getting those 3am pages from those grouchy nurses that everyone hears about).

Well who is the boss then?

 

[doc02]

cranky nurse: "Hey, YOU, get over here."

You: *Ingore*

Cranky nurse: "Hey, YOU."

You: *politely* "Are you speaking to me?" (as you wish to tell her off at this moment but hold back) "If you don't know my name, it's Dr. so and so."

Ha ha, no offense but you'd get killed with that maneuver. Like I said, young nurses are OK, but I have yet to see a nurse who doesn't become "I'm Your Mom And I Tell You How To Act Super B!tch" after a few years. I hope you don't become like that.

But seriously, if you ignored a nurse you'd get the thing where they talk really loud so you can hear, but they're technically not talking TO you. They'd go, "I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE SO RUDE! HE KNOWS WE'RE TALKING TO HIM, BUT HE'S NOT ANSWERING! TYPICAL RESIDENT!" And someone else would go, "MMM HMMM, THEY ALL LIKE THAT, THEY ALL THINK THEY'RE TOO GOOD! THAT'S OK, HONEY, WE'LL TEACH HIM HOW IT'S DONE!"

And if you actually said "it's Dr. so and so," they'd probably try to kill you right then and there for "sassing" them.

 

[jessica84]

.

. They'd go, "I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE SO RUDE! HE KNOWS WE'RE TALKING TO HIM, BUT HE'S NOT ANSWERING! TYPICAL RESIDENT!" And someone else would go, "MMM HMMM, THEY ALL LIKE THAT, THEY ALL THINK THEY'RE TOO GOOD! THAT'S OK, HONEY, WE'LL TEACH HIM HOW IT'S DONE!"

And if you actually said "it's Dr. so and so," they'd probably try to kill you right then and there for "sassing" them.

Okay, then my idea wouldn't work. I especially like the "MMM HMM" part.
I know the type. (But the way I've heard it, it's more of a
"mmm hMMMMM????" Sounds like you're in for a real treat.

It's not the fact that they're nurses. It's a certain personality-type, and it looks like your chief nurse recruited her followers (pack of wolves).

So, it unfortunately sounds like they're going to be quick to judge you because you're a resident. That's why you've got to not play into their little tricks and show integrity. So, I guess as much as a few of them are irritating you, really try not to come across as jerk, because that's only going to reinforce their attitude about you and all other residents. Maybe you can try a different approach and be super kind...(not fake) without taking her crap, but see how she reacts to you then?

wolf: "Hey, YOU!"

you: "Hi, Lucille. What do you need?"

wolf: "I need you to put in an order."

you: "Oh...you know, I really need to evaluate the situation and assess the patient before I do that, but thank you for letting me know about it. Which patient are you referring to?"

Would she bite your head off for that too?
--------------

And don't carry your crappy experience with nurses to your job after your resident. Hopefully, you'll get a mix of better personalities...I guess that's all I can say.

 

[doc02]

Let me tell you my interaction with her and you'll understand:

My initial confrontation with her in my OP was because she wanted me to order some guy toradol. So after I "owned" her, she backed down. Here is the remainder of the exchange between us. (I'm not making it up or exaggerating. Once you read it, you'll understand why I really don't mind referring to her as a dog or talking about owning her.)

Me: I don't put orders in at random. I'll go see the patient, however, and assess their pain.
Her: Fine. As long as you order the toradol.
Me: If the patient needs additional pain medication, I'll order it. But if not, then I'll leave them where they are. Does that sound fair?
Her: It's fine, but if you don't order the toradol I'll call the attending and tell him that you are ignoring the patient's pain.
Me: Even if the patient isn't in pain?
Her: I put everyone on toradol. (She said this.) You can see the patient as long as I get what I want.

So, you see, this nurse is a female dog and I really don't care what other people think of me for saying that. If I met her in a dark alley, I'd probably lay her out because I'm not the only person she does that to -- but I was the first to knock her down. I saw the patient, he wasn't in pain, I came out and told her he wasn't getting anything extra, and then I told her to call the attending. She didn't. Empty threat from an empty head.

 

[jessica84]

If I met her in a dark alley, I'd probably lay her out because I'm not the only person she does that to -- but I was the first to knock her down. I saw the patient, he wasn't in pain, I came out and told her he wasn't getting anything extra, and then I told her to call the attending. She didn't. Empty threat from an empty head.

Okay, listen to me. I completely agree with you that she sounds like a nasty coworker, but you are going to run into nasty coworkers at any job and it sucks, but it's a fact in life. (My nursing instructor is a beast herself, but she does it in a subtle way. She drives me nuts too.) You are taking this way too seriously. To make a comment like this...you need to let it go. Try to lighten up. Try to laugh at the situation. Be glad she's not a family member.

 

[doc02]

I can't laugh off the situation because on the one hand it's so silly -- she doesn't even know why she's "ordering" the toradol, she hasn't seen the patient, she doesn't know the side-effects of toradol, etc. -- and yet I have to sit there and discuss it with her like she is making sense. And even after I do that, she's still threatening me. That's after I treat her in a civilized manner. I don't know why she deserves civility. She's like someone who runs you off the road and people go, "you should have just not antagonized her." What?

 

[jessica84]

How do the other residents and attendings deal with her?

 

[doc02]

The seniors don't have to deal with nurses. The other interns just do what she tells them to do because they always get scared that she'll call the attending and make up some story, like how she threatened me.

 

[jessica84]

Talk with your attending doctor. Tell him what your situation is and see how he/she thinks you should handle the situation.

 

[doc02]

Um, no offense, but that's not how things work. Attendings want to be insulated from stuff like this, not sucked into it.

 

[Doctor]

While you are trying to make a comment in defense of nurses, be careful with what you just said. I am a student nurse and, despite the fact that I do not have a medical degree, I am not unprofessional nor would I ever (no matter how many years of experience I had) talk to residents, med. students, other nurses or anyone for that matter in the way that the OP mentioned. Professionalism does not depend on ones gender nor degree, and we all should know that. I've seen both doctors and nurses who were jerks, and I've also seen doctors and nurses (both male and female) who were very professional, kind and eager to help one another.

To the OP, hmmm... saying you "own a nurse" isn't very professional either. I am sorry to hear about your experience with the nurses. The way the nurse spoke with you was wrong and for the other nurses to follow allong watching for entertainment? Ridiculous (on their part). (Not all nurses are like that. You're just unlucky in your situation.) I would have been ticked-off too, but you need to take the higher road and remain professional. Do not allow her to talk that way to you, but at the same time, maintain a professional manner. (You'll get more respect if you do. Believe me.) There's a fineline between being assertive and not being a jerk, but if handled tactfully, you can earn the respect of colleagues while also being viewed as someone who is professional and friendly.

Sometime those cranky colleagues just need someone to (gently) stand up to them (since they're not used to it) and they'll back down. (Their bite is bigger than their bark.) I've seen these cranky people in every job I've ever had. Male and female. Treat her with kindness (ughh...I know it's hard) but also don't let her push you around.

And don't generalize all nurses. I'm the last type of person who would ever do this to anyone, AND I'm a female. Go figure.

Great points all. You're right, I was trying to defend nurses but failed to do so adequately. Degrees don't equal professionalism, and for every 1 bossy old nurse who is on a power trip, I'm sure there's 2 noob M.D. residents who think they know it all without ever experiencing it in a clinical setting.

And although I hope to be a doctor, from an economics standpoint I can appreciate the nurse side of the great CRNA/Anesthesiologist debate. If a nurse can get equal results for 1/3rd the price ($100,000 salary vs. $300,000 salary), then more power to 'em.

BTW, my brother-in-law's wife is also a nurse.

 

[Terpskins99]

Again, sad. I'm not saying you support her, maybe you do. Look at your response. You anticipate some sort of nursing retribution for what? Read my response again and tell me what was inappropriate. Read her words and tell me what was appropriate.

I rotate through a few affiliate hospitals and I had to deal with this behavior before. I'll tell you how it works out. They try to irritate me and I just do the same thing I did above. I politely tell them that I'm in charge and guess what? It's like dealing with children. First, you get an escalation in harrassment and then you break them in and they stop because they recognize that I am indeed in charge. I don't like it because I'd rather work with adults, but if they're going to act like children I'll treat them as such.

Wow you have a short fuse. I don't see anything wrong with Catsandcradles' remark. Here, I'll give a less ambiguous response. You come across as someone with a serious superiority complex... that or just a really lousy temper. Ever consider that perhaps the reason why the nursing staff gives you a hard time is because YOU give them a hard time to begin with? One nurse giving you problems, I can somewhat understand... but nurses at several different hospitals? That indicates to me that they probably aren't the problem.

Even as a med student, no nurse has ever approached me in that manner. I suspect it has something to do with me abiding by a simple philosophy I adopted before starting medical school... the golden rule, perhaps you've heard of it? "Treat others as you would like to be treated." Words to live by, buddy.

 

[johankriek]

i always say this.. NUrses are not your peers.. do not chat it up bs with them and trust them . They will get you in trouble, they will be against you in court, they are not your friends, do your job and thats it.

 

[Tired]

Talk with your attending doctor. Tell him what your situation is and see how he/she thinks you should handle the situation.

I respect your professionalism and your input in these threads, but I think you have poor perspective on what we actually do and what is expected of us as interns and residents.

You have the luxury of superiors who want to hear about every little problem you're having (pt has pain = call doctor, doctor is an a$$ = call charge nurse, charge nurse is mean = call department head). Our situation is completely reversed, as our superiors expect us to handle problems in such a way that they don't have to hear about it.

I have said it before, and I will repeat it again here: Nurses tend to have bad experiences with coworkers once in a while, so it is easy to "blow it off". But residents, and especially interns, have these experiences almost constantly, and it has substantial impact on our ability to provide good patient care. Suggesting that we "work around it" is redundant, because that's what we do all day, every day. And to say that we should kick it up the chain of command is silly, because those above us expect us to handle it.

Kudos to the OP on not letting empty threats influence your delivery of care.

 

[doc02]

i always say this.. NUrses are not your peers.. do not chat it up bs with them and trust them . They will get you in trouble, they will be against you in court, they are not your friends, do your job and thats it.

I totally agree. I don't ever socialize with nurses and the only interactions I have with them are professional in nature (dealing with patients). I don't sit around talking about their families or their personal lives, as many people do. A lot of people say that marks me as "aloof," but I'm fine with that.

To Terpskins99, you're quite the hypocrite because you spend a lot of time talking about the Golden Rule and bragging about how everyone in your life has always recognized you to be a great person and meanwhile your post is an assumption right off the bat that I deserve any treatment I get. Good job, "buddy," maybe try living by your own rules.

To clarify, I have been at affiliate hospitals until this month and this was the first time I have interacted with the nurses in general here or this nurse in particular. I suppose you can argue that the nurses at the affiliate hospitals hated me so much that they called ahead and told the nurses here how to treat me, right? And that also explains why they treat the other interns the same way because we're all not as good as you. Maybe we can get together and you can teach us how to be great like you.

 

[smq123]

Even as a med student, no nurse has ever approached me in that manner. I suspect it has something to do with me abiding by a simple philosophy I adopted before starting medical school... the golden rule, perhaps you've heard of it? "Treat others as you would like to be treated." Words to live by, buddy.

I see from other posts that you're an MS3 (like me). What rotations have you done so far?

Even as a med student, I HAVE had nurses treat me like $h!t. Most of the culprits have been scrub nurses, although I had saw one charge nurse on psych take out her day's frustration on the other MS3 on the team.

If you haven't done OB/gyn or gen surgery yet, wait before you talk about how "no nurse has ever approached [you] in that manner." If OR scrub nurses abided by the Golden Rule, that means that we (students and residents) would have the right to yell at them for absolutely everything and act like our whole YEAR was RUINED because someone put on the LEFT glove first, instead of the right.

EDIT: I'm a third year med student, like I said - it's not like they treated me that way because I was rude to them. They treated me like that because I'm young, inexperienced, and they could get away with it. Maybe you could justify their behavior as some kind of "training" program for young, "insolent" med students, but not even the chief residents treated me like that.

 

[smq123]

And although I hope to be a doctor, from an economics standpoint I can appreciate the nurse side of the great CRNA/Anesthesiologist debate. If a nurse can get equal results for 1/3rd the price ($100,000 salary vs. $300,000 salary), then more power to 'em.

This post is making me tachycardic and tachypneic. You ARE joking, right?

 

[fang]

I respect your professionalism and your input in these threads, but I think you have poor perspective on what we actually do and what is expected of us as interns and residents.

You have the luxury of superiors who want to hear about every little problem you're having (pt has pain = call doctor, doctor is an a$$ = call charge nurse, charge nurse is mean = call department head). Our situation is completely reversed, as our superiors expect us to handle problems in such a way that they don't have to hear about it.

I have said it before, and I will repeat it again here: Nurses tend to have bad experiences with coworkers once in a while, so it is easy to "blow it off". But residents, and especially interns, have these experiences almost constantly, and it has substantial impact on our ability to provide good patient care. Suggesting that we "work around it" is redundant, because that's what we do all day, every day. And to say that we should kick it up the chain of command is silly, because those above us expect us to handle it.

Kudos to the OP on not letting empty threats influence your delivery of care.

Good point.

On the other hand, I think the OP went past the point of rightfully defending himself-- he retaliated to her unprofessional behaviour with santimonious remarks of his own that probably made him feel good at the moment, and so imo lowered himself right down to her level. I still think his method of dealing with this woman will bite him in the a$$ in the end, and it almost certainly made things worse for whatever unsuspeting young male intern workes with her next. I don't think he deserves kudos for that.

 

[Terpskins99]

To Terpskins99, you're quite the hypocrite because you spend a lot of time talking about the Golden Rule and bragging about how everyone in your life has always recognized you to be a great person and meanwhile your post is an assumption right off the bat that I deserve any treatment I get. Good job, "buddy," maybe try living by your own rules.

To clarify, I have been at affiliate hospitals until this month and this was the first time I have interacted with the nurses in general here or this nurse in particular. I suppose you can argue that the nurses at the affiliate hospitals hated me so much that they called ahead and told the nurses here how to treat me, right? And that also explains why they treat the other interns the same way because we're all not as good as you. Maybe we can get together and you can teach us how to be great like you.

Hypocrite? How so? I didn't assume anything. I based everything on what comes out of your mouth. Which, thus far, is crap. But if you want me to speculate, then fine. I speculate that you're actually much more of a clown in real life. I speculate that you're sugarcoating everything in here and are only telling half the story (which is likely flooded with incidents of yelling at various staff members over petty insignificant issues). I speculate that you abuse your authority on a daily basis. I speculate that you go out of your way to rub everyone the wrong way at your hospital. And I speculate that you have zero clue how to deal with it outside of making yourself look like a complete ass to the entire staff (doctors and nurses alike).

I also speculate that you don't get along with the other interns... otherwise you wouldn't be crying about this on SDN.

Does that about sum it up, buddy? Or do you want to continue to impressing with how you "own" other people at your hospital?

 

[doc02]

Hypocrite? How so? I didn't assume anything. I based everything on what comes out of your mouth. Which, thus far, is crap. But if you want me to speculate, then fine. I speculate that you're actually much more of a clown in real life. I speculate that you're sugarcoating everything in here and are only telling half the story (which is likely flooded with incidents of yelling at various staff members over petty insignificant issues). I speculate that you abuse your authority on a daily basis. I speculate that you go out of your way to rub everyone the wrong way at your hospital. And I speculate that you have zero clue how to deal with it outside of making yourself look like a complete ass to the entire staff (doctors and nurses alike).

I also speculate that you don't get along with the other interns... otherwise you wouldn't be crying about this on SDN.

Does that about sum it up, buddy? Or do you want to continue to impressing with how you "own" other people at your hospital?

Yep, it's Mr. Golden Rule in action! What a great example of humanity. He sounds like the typical brown-noser species of medical student. He probably acts all meek and humble in front of anyone who can affect his grades and his classmates hate him.

 

[doc02]

They treated me like that because I'm young, inexperienced, and they could get away with it.

Yep. Everyone knows this is the case, but in order to look like a great guy Terpskins99 is going to pretend like he's never had even an untoward remark aimed his way. Nurses shower him with presents and call him at his home to wish him a good day. Attendings ask where he is because they miss him and other students cheer with gusto when they hear he is on their rotation. What a great guy he is.