I am totally clueless on what to do :-)

[foreverLaur]

Well as someone who had to bring up an even more awful GPA, don't underestimate the difficulty. As far as discrimination, I am not sure the reason. I have never met an ACNP that did not have several years of ICU experience prior to school, although admittedly my N is very low. The reasons for employment are very complex, but I would include networking from previous positions, feedback from staff nurses etc. On the other hand in my previous job every ICU had several FNPs that were working as staff nurses for a number of reasons.

You have to find out what your market is. This is even more difficult since the program does not exist and there are no ACNP graduates to get info from. Remember the school has no obligation to make sure that you are employed after graduation. Graduate nursing is the true wild west as far as getting information post graduate experience.

David Carpenter, PA-C

That is because you are required to have 1-2 years of critical care experience to become certified (according to Case Western) as an ACNP, CRNA, NNP, or nurse-midwifery. They said the primary care NP's are not required to have prior experience to sit for the exam. Case Western requires this experience BEFORE starting the MSN program. They said that must of their graduate entry students will complete through the RN portion of the program, work in the Cleveland area for 1-2 years, then return to finish their Masters. That's why I was thinking that maybe I should just become an RN through an accelerated program, working for 2 years or so and figuring out what it is I really love and then I'll know which MSN program to enter or if I want to enter a PA program. I'll have the require experience for everything and the first hand knowledge of which program best suits my needs, wants, and goals.

What do you guys think of doing that?

I also thinking having a 3.88 GPA shows that I have done very well at starting to bring up my GPA and that I am capable of achieving high grades. I currently have straight A's in all my classes this quarter as well and I am done on Nov 30... so that includes two midterms. All I have left are my final exams, none of which are cumulative.

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[horsenurse25]

Oh, to be 21 again.
How horrible!!!


I think it is very sweet of you to plan like this...I will be married HERE and get my job HERE and have my kids HERE, etc., etc.

You are too young to know that life does not work this way. Not at all. Things happen. Life changes. Careers rise and fall.

Since you are so uncertain what you want to do..which is absolutely understandable at your age - if I were you I would really concentrate on walking before flying.

Your sig says you are getting your BSc in Microbiology in 2009.

Assuming you want to continue with microbiology, why don't you just finish your degree and then go from there.

At that point you can
1) attempt to go to medical school
2) go through the accelerated BSN program and become an RN - an excellent base in any medical career
3) become a microbiologist

There is no point in worrying about whether you will be a NP or a ACNP or a MD or whatever until you finish what you are currently doing.

Either that or change your current BSc program and go into the BSN. That will save you some time and really hard biology courses!! And then you will be farther ahead in your future plans...assuming you do not want medical school - and it sounds as if you might not.

Because at this rate, it seems like your microbiology degree will not be very useful for your long term goals.

 

[foreverLaur]

Oh, to be 21 again.
How horrible!!!


I think it is very sweet of you to plan like this...I will be married HERE and get my job HERE and have my kids HERE, etc., etc.

You are too young to know that life does not work this way. Not at all. Things happen. Life changes. Careers rise and fall.

Since you are so uncertain what you want to do..which is absolutely understandable at your age - if I were you I would really concentrate on walking before flying.

Your sig says you are getting your BSc in Microbiology in 2009.

Assuming you want to continue with microbiology, why don't you just finish your degree and then go from there.

At that point you can
1) attempt to go to medical school
2) go through the accelerated BSN program and become an RN - an excellent base in any medical career
3) become a microbiologist

There is no point in worrying about whether you will be a NP or a ACNP or a MD or whatever until you finish what you are currently doing.

Either that or change your current BSc program and go into the BSN. That will save you some time and really hard biology courses!! And then you will be farther ahead in your future plans...assuming you do not want medical school - and it sounds as if you might not.

Because at this rate, it seems like your microbiology degree will not be very useful for your long term goals.

The nursing program only admits students for autumn quarter and I would (assuming I got admitted) have to spend 3 years taking nursing coursework. Therefore, it would be 2 extra years to get my BSN where an accelerated program after I get my BS in Microbiology would be 9 months shorter.

I am not applying to medical school and I have zero interest in research or getting my Ph.D.

I don't have all this extra time to sit around and decide what I want to do. Application deadlines for entry in Fall of '09 are early October of 2008. I need to figure out where I want to apply to and work towards preparing myself towards whatever program I apply to.

Oh and I like my science classes and my major. I think it is a great preparing towards graduate school - I'm taking courses in bacteria and viruses, immunology, the science of human nutrition, anatomy w/ a cadaver lab, two quarter physiology course taught by our med school, medical biochemistry, etc. I find them interesting and useful and therefore I work hard in them and have received excellent grades.

The debate here is between:
(1) Enter PA school and how to get the required experience (possibly accelerated BSN)
(2) Enter a graduate entry program to get my RN license and MSN, but no BSN
(3) Enter an accelerated BSN program and then decide to enter PA school or an MSN program.

 

[fab4fan]

I'm not sure what you mean by getting an MSN without the BSN. Technically, you've fulfilled the BSN credits in order to get to the MSN, and if you have an MSN you'll have more options. Even if you didn't get a BSN, you'll already have a bachelor's degree--why do you want two undergrad degrees? That's a waste of $$. No one is going to care if you don't have a BSN if you have an MSN.



I agree with horsenurse. It's one thing to plan, but you also have to know that things don't always happen in the order you think they will.

A wise man once said, "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

 

[foreverLaur]

I'm not sure what you mean by getting an MSN without the BSN. Technically, you've fulfilled the BSN credits in order to get to the MSN, and if you have an MSN you'll have more options. Even if you didn't get a BSN, you'll already have a bachelor's degree--why do you want two undergrad degrees? That's a waste of $$. No one is going to care if you don't have a BSN if you have an MSN.



I agree with horsenurse. It's one thing to plan, but you also have to know that things don't always happen in the order you think they will.

A wise man once said, "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

That is why the accelerated MSN programs don't offer a BSN - you already have a bachelors are you are going to have your MSN. That works great if you are 100% sure being an advanced practice nurse is what you want to do. I was thinking of doing a 15 month accelerated BSN program so I could work as an RN to figure out if getting my MSN or being a PA is the best route for me. I'd also be able to gain the required experience for both fields.

 

[deleted6669]

"They also only use PA's in CT Surgery."

actually there are lots of pa's in ca working in areas other than surgery. I worked em in socal for years and still know of lots of places that use pa's there in a variety of clinical settings.....

 

[foreverLaur]

"They also only use PA's in CT Surgery."

actually there are lots of pa's in ca working in areas other than surgery. I worked em in socal for years and still know of lots of places that use pa's there in a variety of clinical settings.....

I am sure they do. I have only talked to people in a small geographical area. So they can only speak from their specific experiences. This is why I am trying to gain as much experience as possible.

 

[fab4fan]

There are accelerated MSN programs that do not necessarily lead to NP. You could still work as an RN with a master's degree and then if you decided you wanted to do advanced practice go back and finish the requirements for that.

There has to be something better than a 15 month program. Heck, there are accel. programs you can finish in 9 mo. if you have the bach. degree.

Just to further muddy the waters.

That is why the accelerated MSN programs don't offer a BSN - you already have a bachelors are you are going to have your MSN. That works great if you are 100% sure being an advanced practice nurse is what you want to do. I was thinking of doing a 15 month accelerated BSN program so I could work as an RN to figure out if getting my MSN or being a PA is the best route for me. I'd also be able to gain the required experience for both fields.

 

[core0]

There are accelerated MSN programs that do not necessarily lead to NP. You could still work as an RN with a master's degree and then if you decided you wanted to do advanced practice go back and finish the requirements for that.

There has to be something better than a 15 month program. Heck, there are accel. programs you can finish in 9 mo. if you have the bach. degree.

Just to further muddy the waters.

Just to further muddy the waters who would hire an RN with only an MSN as a floor nurse? Usually a BSN commands a little premium over an ADN and an MSN a bigger premium. However, the MSN is usually an experienced nurse and assuming a resource or leadership role. So what is the pay. Same as a BSN?

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[fab4fan]

Actually, there are a few people doing this. They don't get paid at an MSN level; they still get paid at the same rate as any entry level nurse. But if you're not sure what you want to do next, it is an alternative.

 

[PharmDr.]

I cant help but to relate to you very well. Im 23 and used to stress out every single day about what career I wanted and how to get there. While this is good that you are doing great in school and that you have set goals for yourself.....in the long run this will hurt you. You need time to find what is important to you. I was close to getting my BS in biology, but decided that getting a clinical job with some amount of responsibility was the best thing. I talked to the director of a local respiratory care program and I completed the program in a yr. Now im getting 25/hr for an easy job as an RRT that allows me to be in the hospital and make my mind up on my future career. I am stress free now and enjoying life, while still helping patients. I would recommend you finish your degree and pursue an entry-level healthcare job that you can do on the side. You can make your own job as an NP or PA. It is all about selling yourself and being knowledgeable. Why cant you do surgeries half the week and do rounds the other half? It really sounds like being a PA is more suitable for yourself.

 

[foreverLaur]

I have found many shorter accelerated BSN programs, but I'd like to stay local (family, fiance, sister playing collegiate volleyball) so they only have 15 month ones.

Most of the entry level positions I have seen in healthcare taking about a year to complete anyways, so why not use that year to become an RN?

 

[core0]

Actually, there are a few people doing this. They don't get paid at an MSN level; they still get paid at the same rate as any entry level nurse. But if you're not sure what you want to do next, it is an alternative.

I'm just reminded of the ND program at University of Colorado. It was a 3 year program that was only open to non-nurses. If you look at the content it was essentially a DE MSN program that was called a Nursing Doctorate. Problem was that the BON did not recognize the degree. So they had a BSN but were insisting that they had a "doctorate". They were demanding "doctorate" pay. Unfortunately in the era before the nursing shortage what they were was unemployed. The nurse manager that I worked for offered one a tech position with the condition that if she worked hard they would consider her for a night RN position.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[foreverLaur]

Why would you go to school for 3 years to get your MSN and work as an RN when you could get your BSN in one year and work as an RN. No difference in salary or job, but two extra years of school and tuition going the other route. Unless you were 100% positive you wanted to be an NP someday of course...

 

[Salamandrina]

"Not sure what to do next" is a horrible reason to get a graduate degree. The only reason to get a graduate degree is that it fits in with your life goals, not just a means to bide your time.

I also heard from an employer that a person that is qualified to be an NP taking a job as an RN looks really bad. It illustrates a lack the confidence to take on the NP role.

 

[core0]

"Not sure what to do next" is a horrible reason to get a graduate degree. The only reason to get a graduate degree is that it fits in with your life goals, not just a means to bide your time.

I also heard from an employer that a person that is qualified to be an NP taking a job as an RN looks really bad. It illustrates a lack the confidence to take on the NP role.

At my previous job every ICU had 2-3 RNs that had finished their NP training and were working as RNs. Problem was that new grad FNP pay was less than experienced RN pay and no ability to get overtime. It pays to know the market. Unfortunately hospitals are starting to wake up to the fact that there is extra risk involved. With a tight nursing market it hasn't seemed to make much of a difference but in markets that are not as tight it might.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[Salamandrina]

Unfortunately hospitals are starting to wake up to the fact that there is extra risk involved.

extra risk in hiring new FNP grads as RNs or extra risk in not offering more FNP positions for new grads or.....?

 

[core0]

extra risk in hiring new FNP grads as RNs or extra risk in not offering more FNP positions for new grads or.....?

Extra risk hiring FNPs. From this article:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/506277_7
registration required

'I am a family NP (FNP) and am wondering if I can work as a non-advanced practice RN at a local nursing home? I plan to function as any other RN. Would I be held to higher liability standards?

From a regulatory standpoint, you are always legally entitled to work under your RN license, as long as it is current and you meet all RN requirements. However, insurers agree that someone with advanced practice training and certification needs to be insured at the higher level, regardless of position. See the NSO newsletter answering this topic at: http://www.nso.com/newsletters/advisor/2000/np/npra5.php#qa.

Role validation is a large component of scope. If you take such a job, you will need to ensure that the role validation of the RN, rather than that of the NP, is the face you hold out to the public. The setting where you are employed can also help match your role validation, by keeping your job title, job description, duties, and activities crystal clear. The most conservative advice would be to avoid working in areas that share the specialty of your advanced practice focus (such as a nurse midwife working as a labor and delivery nurse). Taking such a position is asking for role confusion, and that, in turn, affects your ability to practice appropriately with your patients."

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[PhysioMan]

I talked to a few friends of mine doing surgery rotations and another one who has worked in some major hospitals as a CRNA. I got the same responses from all of them.

Most PAs work in non university / teaching hospitals because at the teaching hospitals, they have the residents to do all that type work. The teaching hospital environment is where I would like to work. To double check, I called a few of the big teaching hospitals I am interested in and they told me they only hire PAs in CT surgery and they don't hire very many. They told me to check smaller hospitals.

They also all told me that a PA pretty much does what his or her doctor wants the PA to do. You may get lucky and get a doctor who wants you to scrub in a lot, or you may get one who likes you to do paperwork and scut work most of the time. Just depends...

So, I have decided to go after being an acute care nurse practitioner and a clinical nurse specialist in cardio-pulmonary I think.

This sounds like a regional thing as far as hiring practices go. I would not describe this as an accurate representation of the role of surgical PAs as a whole. You may have to move to get the experience and/or type of employment you desire. This is something that a lot of people don't take in to account when considering careers in healthcare.

CNS is a very respectable career goal and I applaud you for choosing it.

 

[foreverLaur]

"Not sure what to do next" is a horrible reason to get a graduate degree. The only reason to get a graduate degree is that it fits in with your life goals, not just a means to bide your time.

I was not aware that entering a one year accelerated BSN program was considered getting a graduate degree?

 

[lawguil]

I was not aware that entering a one year accelerated BSN program was considered getting a graduate degree?

Sounds like your staying home, going to nursing school, and getting marrried.
Now it's time to start on your retirement planning.

Case closed!

 

[foreverLaur]

Sounds like your staying home, going to nursing school, and getting marrried.
Now it's time to start on your retirement planning.

Case closed!

Can I get any REAL advice on here instead of just being mocked.

I am trying to decide which field is the better choice for my interests and career goals: advanced practice nurse or physician assistant.

 

[Salamandrina]

I was not aware that entering a one year accelerated BSN program was considered getting a graduate degree?

I thought you were talking about a DE MSN program. Weren't you also talking about that?

 

[foreverLaur]

I thought you were talking about a DE MSN program. Weren't you also talking about that?

yes, but not as a stepping stone.

i am looking at three options here

(1) a direct entry MSN program that leads to being a CNP
(2) an accelerated BSN program to later enter an MSN or PA program
(3) a PA program

I would probably only do option #2 in order to (1) attempt to become a CRNA or (2) to get the required experience for PA school

 

[Salamandrina]

Extra risk hiring FNPs. From this article:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/506277_7
registration required

'I am a family NP (FNP) and am wondering if I can work as a non-advanced practice RN at a local nursing home? I plan to function as any other RN. Would I be held to higher liability standards?

From a regulatory standpoint, you are always legally entitled to work under your RN license, as long as it is current and you meet all RN requirements. However, insurers agree that someone with advanced practice training and certification needs to be insured at the higher level, regardless of position. See the NSO newsletter answering this topic at: http://www.nso.com/newsletters/advisor/2000/np/npra5.php#qa.

Role validation is a large component of scope. If you take such a job, you will need to ensure that the role validation of the RN, rather than that of the NP, is the face you hold out to the public. The setting where you are employed can also help match your role validation, by keeping your job title, job description, duties, and activities crystal clear. The most conservative advice would be to avoid working in areas that share the specialty of your advanced practice focus (such as a nurse midwife working as a labor and delivery nurse). Taking such a position is asking for role confusion, and that, in turn, affects your ability to practice appropriately with your patients."

David Carpenter, PA-C

Ah, that makes sense. Not something I had even thought about. Although I didn't really think about getting an advanced degree to practice as an RN either, I think that limations of where you can find an NP job in your field can force unsuspecting NPs into working as RNs. Thanks, David.

 

[deleted6669]

Can I get any REAL advice on here instead of just being mocked.

I am trying to decide which field is the better choice for my interests and career goals: advanced practice nurse or physician assistant.

surgery/em/hospital based or procedural medicine: pa hands down
obgyn/peds/neonatology: np hands down
primary care fp or im: either

 

[foreverLaur]

surgery/em/hospital based or procedural medicine: pa hands down
obgyn/peds/neonatology: np hands down
primary care fp or im: either

I wish it was that simple with the PAs. A lot of the hospitals in my area don't use PAs and those that do... some let them do surgery and others prefer them not to scrub in.

I have a friend who is getting her BSN and awnting to enter a PA program and she has a doctor at the Cleveland Clinic she is good friends with. He lets his PA scrub in to most all surgeries and sees most patients on clinic days. Sounds perfect.

She also said an equal amount of doctors do not let their PAs scrub in.

So... I may get lucky and get a great doc to work under... or maybe not...

That is the concern I have. I shadowed the ED at Akron General for a month and never saw a single PA - all residents seeing the patients and conferring with the attendings.

T

 

[Salamandrina]

yes, but not as a stepping stone.

i am looking at three options here

(1) a direct entry MSN program that leads to being a CNP
(2) an accelerated BSN program to later enter an MSN or PA program
(3) a PA program

I would probably only do option #2 in order to (1) attempt to become a CRNA or (2) to get the required experience for PA school

Okay, but here's my point. Don't go to a DE MSN program sans BSN to become a PA. That's not wise. You are doubling the schooling for no reason. If you don't know what you want to do, now is not the time to enter grad school. And if you want to be a PA, there are quicker ways to get the clinical experience required than getting a RN licensure and then going into the PA program.

 

[foreverLaur]

Okay, but here's my point. Don't go to a DE MSN program sans BSN to become a PA. That's not wise. You are doubling the schooling for no reason. If you don't know what you want to do, now is not the time to enter grad school. And if you want to be a PA, there are quicker ways to get the clinical experience required than getting a RN licensure and then going into the PA program.

I never intended to spend three years getting my MSN and then another 27 months becoming a PA. It was #1 OR #3.

What are the faster options to getting 1,000+ hours of experience for PA school other than a 12 month BSN program and working as an RN?

It has to be the following type of experience:

"Applicants must provide documentation of health care experience, either paid or voluntary, that reflects direct patient care with decision-making process necessary to become a successful PA student and graduate professional. It is highly suggested that applicants have over 1,000 hours of experience."

 

[Salamandrina]

I was not aware that entering a one year accelerated BSN program was considered getting a graduate degree?

Sounds like your staying home, going to nursing school, and getting marrried.
Now it's time to start on your retirement planning.

Case closed!

No wonder foreverlaur got upset by this.

lawguil, I don't know what the devil you are talking about here. She didn't say that she wants to have a degree so she can feel good about settling down and having babies. She is asking about accelerated programs. What gives?

 

[Salamandrina]

I never intended to spend three years getting my MSN and then another 27 months becoming a PA. It was #1 OR #3.

What are the faster options to getting 1,000+ hours of experience for PA school other than a 12 month BSN program and working as an RN?

It has to be the following type of experience:

"Applicants must provide documentation of health care experience, either paid or voluntary, that reflects direct patient care with decision-making process necessary to become a successful PA student and graduate professional. It is highly suggested that applicants have over 1,000 hours of experience."

LVN is quicker than RN for one....and if I am not mistaken EMT school is quicker too. Either of those should qualify. Actually sounds like you could join the peace corps and get this experience now that I am reading it.

 

[foreverLaur]

LVN is quicker than RN for one....and if I am not mistaken EMT school is quicker too. Either of those should qualify. Actually sounds like you could join the peach corps and get this experience now that I am reading it.

from what I can tell, LPN is also one year. do you know of any programs in the Columbus, OH or Akron, OH area?

same thing for the EMT programs.

if anyone can find me an EMT program or LPN program in Ohio that I can complete in less than 1 year, please send me a link! thanks.

 

[deleted6669]

I wish it was that simple with the PAs. A lot of the hospitals in my area don't use PAs and those that do... some let them do surgery and others prefer them not to scrub in.

I have a friend who is getting her BSN and awnting to enter a PA program and she has a doctor at the Cleveland Clinic she is good friends with. He lets his PA scrub in to most all surgeries and sees most patients on clinic days. Sounds perfect.

She also said an equal amount of doctors do not let their PAs scrub in.

So... I may get lucky and get a great doc to work under... or maybe not...

That is the concern I have. I shadowed the ED at Akron General for a month and never saw a single PA - all residents seeing the patients and conferring with the attendings.

T

just don't take a job that doesn't have the right mix of o.r. and clinic time for you. you have some choice in the matter. some surgical jobs are all o.r. time, some are all clinic time, most are a mix. there are A LOT more pa's working in surgery than there are np's. there isn't even a surgical np option, you have to do a basic np cert 1st as an acute care np for basic hospital priviledges then do an rn 1st assist program to cover the same scope of practice any pa gets. if surgery is your goal you really should do pa. pa also gives you the option for a 1 yr postgrad surgical residency ( see www.appap.org) that you don't have as an np.
getting your rn is a good 1st step either way. it gets you a job with income and some health care experience needed for pa school. A few more prereqs and you could apply to either program.

 

[foreverLaur]

just don't take a job that doesn't have the right mix of o.r. and clinic time for you. you have some choice in the matter. some surgical jobs are all o.r. time, some are all clinic time, most are a mix. there are A LOT more pa's working in surgery than there are np's. there isn't even a surgical np option, you have to do a basic np cert 1st as an acute care np for basic hospital priviledges then do an rn 1st assist program to cover the same scope of practice any pa gets. if surgery is your goal you really should do pa. pa also gives you the option for a 1 yr postgrad surgical residency ( see www.appap.org) that you don't have as an np.
getting your rn is a good 1st step either way. it gets you a job with income and some health care experience needed for pa school. A few more prereqs and you could apply to either program.

who knew i would need intro to psych and intro to sociology to get into a BSN, MSN, or PA program? my psych class in a business setting doesn't count boo.

if i could get a job with a nice balance of OR time and clinic time, it would be the perfect job. i'm just not sure how many of them there are or how easy it is to land a job like that. is my future geographical area going to be limited at all?

 

[core0]

from what I can tell, LPN is also one year. do you know of any programs in the Columbus, OH or Akron, OH area?

same thing for the EMT programs.

if anyone can find me an EMT program or LPN program in Ohio that I can complete in less than 1 year, please send me a link! thanks.

Three months for EMT-B.
http://www.akrongeneral.org/portal/page?_pageid=153,160977&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
That will let you work in the field and possibly get an ER tech position. Since you have essentially two years until PA school would start (based on the tagline) you would have plenty of time. This would be the fasted way.

If I understand where you are in your educational path. You have a year and a half to finish a BS in Micro. From there it would take a little more than a year to get a BSN if you can get in. It would take you two years to get a PA degree if you can get in. From a PA perspective there are 5 programs in Ohio. One is a Bachelors only program which is a real problem in Ohio. The other four offer Masters (even CCC). That means that you have to be competitive of for one of the 150 slots in Ohio (assuming you are not able to go out of state). A DE MSN program will take three years or so. One other option would be dropping the micro degree and getting into a BSN program (once again if you can get in). The fasted way to a medical career from where you are would be either EMT while finishing BS then PA or going straight into BSN.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[Salamandrina]

who knew i would need intro to psych and intro to sociology to get into a BSN, MSN, or PA program? my psych class in a business setting doesn't count boo.

if i could get a job with a nice balance of OR time and clinic time, it would be the perfect job. i'm just not sure how many of them there are or how easy it is to land a job like that. is my future geographical area going to be limited at all?

Yes, you have to take developmental psych for a lot of programs. I am surprised you are surprised by this.

Anytime you are married to a location, you limit your options. That is not just for nursing. Both for schooling options and career options, you are making the decisions to have fewer choices because your most important criterion is location.

 

[foreverLaur]

Yes, you have to take developmental psych for a lot of programs. I am surprised you are surprised by this.

Anytime you are married to a location, you limit your options. That is not just for nursing. Both for schooling options and career options, you are making the decisions to have fewer choices because your most important criterion is location.

They don't require developmental psych - just psych 100. i was expecting to have to take human growth & development, but not basic psych. at least at my school, human growth & development has no prerequisites.




Oh and thanks for the EMT-Basic link

 

[fab4fan]

If you already have a bach degree and aren't sure if you want to do the NP track or go into mgmt., it's not a bad decision. It's not just biding your time. Not everyone knows precisely what they're going to do right out of school, but they know enough to know they'll need a certain amt. of education.

If you look over at allnurses, there are quite a few people who are doing just this. Some of them are just working for a few yrs. to get exp. beofre going on to get NP cert. Everyone's cricumstances vary, so it's not wise to try to pidgeon hole everyone.

"Not sure what to do next" is a horrible reason to get a graduate degree. The only reason to get a graduate degree is that it fits in with your life goals, not just a means to bide your time.

Pfft...I'd rather have an inexp. NP getting some exp. than being overconfident and not knowing his/her limitations.

I also heard from an employer that a person that is qualified to be an NP taking a job as an RN looks really bad. It illustrates a lack the confidence to take on the NP role.

 

[Salamandrina]

If you already have a bach degree and aren't sure if you want to do the NP track or go into mgmt., it's not a bad decision. It's not just biding your time. Not everyone knows precisely what they're going to do right out of school, but they know enough to know they'll need a certain amt. of education.

If you look over at allnurses, there are quite a few people who are doing just this. Some of them are just working for a few yrs. to get exp. beofre going on to get NP cert. Everyone's cricumstances vary, so it's not wise to try to pidgeon hole everyone.

I stand by my assertion that if you are undecided between NP or PA you shouldn't start grad school until you've made up your mind. I am not saying people don't do it, but I do think it is unwise.

 

[foreverLaur]

I stand by my assertion that if you are undecided between NP or PA you shouldn't start grad school until you've made up your mind. I am not saying people don't do it, but I do think it is unwise.

I stand by the fact that I NEVER said I was going to graduate school until I picked whether i wanted to be a CNP or PA.

I was thinking about working as an RN for a year to get experience and make a better decision. I would then have all the prerequisites to enter into a PA program or NP program. To the best of my knowledge, getting a second bachelors degree (12-15 months) does not qualify as graduate school.

 

[Rndaized]

Can I get any REAL advice on here instead of just being mocked.

I am trying to decide which field is the better choice for my interests and career goals: advanced practice nurse or physician assistant.

Maybe I can be of some help. ACNP is up and coming field. ACNP are working in Heart Transplant, Heart Failure clinics and numerous other areas. Do to the new restrictions that have been mandated on medical residents to how many hours they can work in hospitals--has decreased the number of "house officers", residents etc making rounds in larger hospitals--this has added to a larger patient load for the established MD/specialist, so with that in mind ACNP are in a lot of larger facilities taking on the role as "hospitalist" working in numerous areas like neuro, cardiac etc.....I just finished this past summer working cardiac transplant and was offered a job 1 semester before I was to graduate. NPs verus PAs--what's the difference? Difference lies between scope of practice, licensure, and independence of practice. PAs practice medicine under the license of a physician, never independently. NPs practice under their own licenses. PAs are the true physician extenders , because they never practice under their own license. NPs may be physician extenders or practice independently--depending upon state law. PAs have a job description, not a scope of practice. PAs are educated off of the medical model--and are designed to compliment physician training. ACNP are demanding a higher salary return than FNP due to the ability and knowledge of critical care etc--but doesn't mean that an FNP can't work in this field if you have critical care experience as a past RN......hope this helps. NPs can also work for themselves and have their own practice--some states allow for total independence, while others have a collaborating MD who reviews charts once a month and is paid by the NP to do such from their practice.

 

[deleted6669]

Maybe I can be of some help. ACNP is up and coming field. ACNP are working in Heart Transplant, Heart Failure clinics and numerous other areas. Do to the new restrictions that have been mandated on medical residents to how many hours they can work in hospitals--has decreased the number of "house officers", residents etc making rounds in larger hospitals--this has added to a larger patient load for the established MD/specialist, so with that in mind ACNP are in a lot of larger facilities taking on the role as "hospitalist" working in numerous areas like neuro, cardiac etc.....I just finished this past summer working cardiac transplant and was offered a job 1 semester before I was to graduate. NPs verus PAs--what's the difference? Difference lies between scope of practice, licensure, and independence of practice. PAs practice medicine under the license of a physician, never independently. NPs practice under their own licenses. PAs are the true physician extenders , because they never practice under their own license. NPs may be physician extenders or practice independently--depending upon state law. PAs have a job description, not a scope of practice. PAs are educated off of the medical model--and are designed to compliment physician training. ACNP are demanding a higher salary return than FNP due to the ability and knowledge of critical care etc--but doesn't mean that an FNP can't work in this field if you have critical care experience as a past RN......hope this helps. NPs can also work for themselves and have their own practice--some states allow for total independence, while others have a collaborating MD who reviews charts once a month and is paid by the NP to do such from their practice.

a few errors here.....as a pa I have my own license and my own dea#. I have to have an affiliation agreement with a physician in order for my license to be active in the state. I have a scope of practice just like any physician in my dept with a hospital approved list of procedures, etc.
I have a sponsoring physician who reviews a small % of my charts ( 0-10% depending on which of my jobs we are discussing).
pa's can open their own practices in many states with minimal physician involvement. the pa hires a physician and pays them a trivial amount to meet legal requirements. for example north carolina defines "supervision" as a 30 min meeting with a physician every 6 months to discuss the practice. no chart review required.
california requires a 5 % chart review. oregon requires 10%.
when you look at how many pa's and np's actually own their own practice and see all their own pts the #s are the same, from 2-5% depending on the study.
I do agree with you that acnp is the way to go as an np if you want to work in the hospital. most fnp programs have little or no inpatient experience at all and most have no surgical component.

 

[foreverLaur]

ah why does each person have to make the respective career sound so appealing to me?

does an ACNP have any shot at being a first or second assist in surgery? (or any NP for that matter)

 

[deleted6669]

ah why does each person have to make the respective career sound so appealing to me?

does an ACNP have any shot at being a first or second assist in surgery? (or any NP for that matter)

depends on the facility.some places let any np work in surgery. some allow acnp. some only allow those with an rnfa cert. some require np + rnfa.
a few states( texas in particular) are very fussy about which np's work in the hospital or in surgery.fnp is really an outpt primary care degree. acnp is a hospital based degree.
all pa's are qualified for entry level positions in surgery right out of school as both didactic and clinical surgical components are required for every pa program..
typical pa program clinical hours 2200
range for np programs 500-1500

 

[foreverLaur]

PA program does sound like the perfect route with my long standing previous goal of wanting to go to medical school.

being an NP just gives me a lot more options - I can get in right out of undergraduate, I can graduate in less total time because of starting right away, I know of a TON more jobs in my area for NPs...

I have a slight problem though. All schools i am looking at for PA require Human Anatomy & Physiology I and II WITH a lab. I took Human Anatomy, which had 5 hours a week of lecture and 6 hours a week of partial dissection lab with human cadavers. I then took a two quarter human physiology sequence taught by our medical school, but it did not have a lab - Ohio State does not offer any physiology class with a lab.

I tried to look into taking it elsewhere, but all the other schools either (1) offer anatomy & physiology combined, requiring me to take two semesters of lab to fulfill requirements or (2) since my physiology and anatomy classes transfer, they will not let me retake the classes.

I have called over 30 colleges and I can't find anywhere that will permit to to take a physiology lab. I have called 22 PA programs and they all say that they do not waive that physiology lab requirement because they have plenty of qualified students who have taken exactly all the prerequisite courses. Help?

 

[core0]

PA program does sound like the perfect route with my long standing previous goal of wanting to go to medical school.

being an NP just gives me a lot more options - I can get in right out of undergraduate, I can graduate in less total time because of starting right away, I know of a TON more jobs in my area for NPs...

I have a slight problem though. All schools i am looking at for PA require Human Anatomy & Physiology I and II WITH a lab. I took Human Anatomy, which had 5 hours a week of lecture and 6 hours a week of partial dissection lab with human cadavers. I then took a two quarter human physiology sequence taught by our medical school, but it did not have a lab - Ohio State does not offer any physiology class with a lab.

I tried to look into taking it elsewhere, but all the other schools either (1) offer anatomy & physiology combined, requiring me to take two semesters of lab to fulfill requirements or (2) since my physiology and anatomy classes transfer, they will not let me retake the classes.

I have called over 30 colleges and I can't find anywhere that will permit to to take a physiology lab. I have called 22 PA programs and they all say that they do not waive that physiology lab requirement because they have plenty of qualified students who have taken exactly all the prerequisite courses. Help?

Your courses should work for most programs. Most schools do either A&P I and II or Anatomy and Physiology as separate courses. Usually it has to total 6-8 credits. In places where Anatomy and Physiology are offered separately usually the lab is with the anatomy portion. It may be that you are not asking the question correctly. If you ask them "I have 4 credits of anatomy and 4 credits of physiology with a lab will that work" most of them will say yes. Another option is to take A&P at a community college outside the program. This is a good low cost option for getting classes that you do not need to graduate (or won't count toward graduation).

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[fab4fan]

And I stand by my assertion that there are other things to do with a master's degree besides advanced practice. You might want to read some of the threads at allnurses to enlighten yourself as to why people have taken this track. It does make sense in certain situations.

I stand by my assertion that if you are undecided between NP or PA you shouldn't start grad school until you've made up your mind. I am not saying people don't do it, but I do think it is unwise.

 

[foreverLaur]

And I stand by my assertion that there are other things to do with a master's degree besides advanced practice. You might want to read some of the threads at allnurses to enlighten yourself as to why people have taken this track. It does make sense in certain situations.

If I chose to nursing route, I would want to be a CRNA or NP. That is why I am pursuing a MSN. Not the other way around.

Your courses should work for most programs. Most schools do either A&P I and II or Anatomy and Physiology as separate courses. Usually it has to total 6-8 credits. In places where Anatomy and Physiology are offered separately usually the lab is with the anatomy portion. It may be that you are not asking the question correctly. If you ask them "I have 4 credits of anatomy and 4 credits of physiology with a lab will that work" most of them will say yes. Another option is to take A&P at a community college outside the program. This is a good low cost option for getting classes that you do not need to graduate (or won't count toward graduation).

David Carpenter, PA-C

I have tried. I have 6 hours of anatomy with a lab and 10 hours of physiology without a lab. They still said that does not meet their requirements. It must be Anatomy with a lab AND Physiology with a lab or Physiology & Anatomy I and II, both with labs.

I also tried to take it at a local community college, but my credits transferred in as their Anatomy & Physiology I and II with the labs, so they won't let me retake. The other school I looked at as the lab integrated into the lecture, so I would have to complete retake the coursework as well, which would push me back another entire year... assuming I received special permission to retake a course for a grade since, again, my credits would transfer in as those classes. They said such a petition has never been approved. Once you have transfer credit for a course, they do not allow retakes for grades... and these schools require grades of a C or above.

It looks like my only option to take a physiology lab is to take two semesters of anatomy & physiology + lab. fantastic. i have covered everything in the lecture component already and 50% of the lab stuff already. And this is assuming I get special permission to retake these classes for a grades since I will have transfer credit for them. Why do schools have to make this so difficult?!

 

[fab4fan]

I wasn't talking about you in that instance, Laur. I was also responding to another poster.

 

[fab4fan]

If I chose to nursing route, I would want to be a CRNA or NP. That is why I am pursuing a MSN. Not the other way around.



I have tried. I have 6 hours of anatomy with a lab and 10 hours of physiology without a lab. They still said that does not meet their requirements. It must be Anatomy with a lab AND Physiology with a lab or Physiology & Anatomy I and II, both with labs.

I also tried to take it at a local community college, but my credits transferred in as their Anatomy & Physiology I and II with the labs, so they won't let me retake. The other school I looked at as the lab integrated into the lecture, so I would have to complete retake the coursework as well, which would push me back another entire year... assuming I received special permission to retake a course for a grade since, again, my credits would transfer in as those classes. They said such a petition has never been approved. Once you have transfer credit for a course, they do not allow retakes for grades... and these schools require grades of a C or above.

It looks like my only option to take a physiology lab is to take two semesters of anatomy & physiology + lab. fantastic. i have covered everything in the lecture component already and 50% of the lab stuff already. And this is assuming I get special permission to retake these classes for a grades since I will have transfer credit for them. Why do schools have to make this so difficult?!

You know, now this is getting annoying. You're griping about having to take psych. You're griping about the A&P. It's "difficult" because you will be dealing with peoples' lives. You had better know your stuff. It would be better for you to have to repeat something than to have not gotten information you needed. I'm sorry if that's inconvenient for you or if it doesn't fit in with your life plan. It's attitudes like this that make so many people skeptical of DE programs--because many of the people who want to do them are just looking for the fast and easy route to quick $$. They don't stop to think that "Hey, I'm playing with lives here."