How much do you expect to make?

[daivimarga]

Have any of you even ever paid taxes?! You can't bring home over 300k post tax. This is kind of hilarious. I wish!! Also you'll likely be paying 15-20k in loans


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[Anicetus]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

What era do you think we all live in? Reagonomics world???? Go hide your money in the islands if you expect to be bringing home this much with healthcare today.

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

Have any of you even ever paid taxes?! You can't bring home over 300k post tax. This is kind of hilarious. I wish!! Also you'll likely be paying 15-20k in loans


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Your post is nonsensical. Plenty of physicians today are bringing in far more than 300k post tax. If you make 450k gross, you will bring in well over 300k under the current tax rates. I am determined to make at least 300k post tax when I am an attending and will do whatever it takes, regardless of what the tax rates are X years in the future. Today, there are plenty of EM docs making 300k post tax working 12-15 shifts a month. Even if earning power drops by a catastrophic 50% by the time I am an attending, I will still be able to attain my goal by working 20 shifts rather than 15. As a single guy, that is something I am perfectly willing to do for the first few years.

 

[daivimarga]

Your post is nonsensical. Plenty of physicians today are bringing in far more than 300k post tax. If you make 450k gross, you will bring in well over 300k under the current tax rates. I am determined to make at least 300k post tax when I am an attending and will do whatever it takes, regardless of what the tax rates are X years in the future. Today, there are plenty of EM docs making 300k post tax working 12-15 shifts a month. Even if earning power drops by a catastrophic 50% by the time I am an attending, I will still be able to attain my goal by working 20 shifts rather than 15. As a single guy, that is something I am perfectly willing to do for the first few years.

Find me one of those docs.

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

Find me one of those docs.

How about you peruse some of the plentiful MGMA threads on this forum and find them for yourself. The median salaries of any of the more competitive procedural specialties is close to 450k. Their 75th percentile salaries are close to 600k.

Are you going to argue against this, or accept that at least today, your claim that a 300k post tax salary is "hilarious" is completely wrong?

 

[mistafab]

Clearly a special snowflake as well, I'd go as far to say more special than I.

Ok special snowflake. You haven't even started med school and you are gunning for part-time surgery, which doesn't exist.

At Baylor Scott & White there is a group of 3 full time surgeons and a part time surgeon who is also Hospital CMO (http://jobs.baylorscottandwhite.com/job/6037267/generalsurgery-roundrock-tx/). Clearly there are part time surgeons out there who have time to take care of other responsibilities. You'd have to be 'extra special' to think that everyone running around with an MD degree just wakes up and rushes to the hospital for a 7am-9pm shift, Monday through Saturday. Yes, there are some surgeons out there that can average 25-35 hours a week of pure surgery so they can do 30-60 hours of something else. But hey, thinking is something that not everyone needs to do or has to be good at.

 

[daivimarga]

How about you peruse some of the plentiful MGMA threads on this forum and find them for yourself. The median salaries of any of the more competitive procedural specialties is close to 450k. Their 75th percentile salaries are close to 600k.

Are you going to argue against this, or accept that at least today, your claim that a 300k post tax salary is "hilarious" is completely wrong?

450 taxed around 40% is 270

 

[terra330]

450 taxed around 40% is 270

Not really since you're only charged 40% on the portion of your income above 415k. Should be able to keep over 300k if you have some typical deductions and reasonable state and local taxes.

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

450 taxed around 40% is 270

You have absolutely zero idea of how taxes work, which is ironic since you came in here guns blazing about how I'm the idiot who has no clue about taxation. The highest marginal tax rate is 38%. That only kicks in at well over 250k, which means everything below that is taxed at a lower rate. Then there are deductions. And then there are tax free retirement accounts. And so on.

Ballpark figure, a 450k salary will be taxed at between 25-30%. So you will keep 315k at worst, assuming you're not ******ed and live in a state with no income tax, as I certainly plan to do.

 

[daivimarga]

You have absolutely zero idea of how taxes work, which is ironic since you came in here guns blazing about how I'm the idiot who has no clue about taxation. The highest marginal tax rate is 38%. That only kicks in at well over 250k, which means everything below that is taxed at a lower rate. Then there are deductions. And then there are tax free retirement accounts. And so on.

Ballpark figure, a 450k salary will be taxed at between 25-30%. So you will keep 315k at worst, assuming you're not ******ed and live in a state with no income tax, as I certainly plan to do.

It's 39.6 percent

 

[sylvanthus]

Have any of you even ever paid taxes?! You can't bring home over 300k post tax. This is kind of hilarious. I wish!! Also you'll likely be paying 15-20k in loans


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Not difficult actually. EM pays roughly 200 per hour, do a 50 hour work week and that will be 500,000 before taxes and with vacation time.

 

[Psai]

We need to keep premeds out of allo, this thread is hurting my head

 

[Rekt]

Not difficult actually. EM pays roughly 200 per hour, do a 50 hour work week and that will be 500,000 before taxes and with vacation time.

You're high as a kite if you think you're making 200/hr out the door in EM, let alone doing 50/hrs a week.

 

[sylvanthus]

You're high as a kite if you think you're making 200/hr out the door in EM, let alone doing 50/hrs a week.

Lol okay medical student. Thank you for telling me about the pay in my own specialty.

 

[shouldvestudied]

It's 39.6 percent

Which still doesn't excuse your ignorance of how marginal tax rates work.

 

[Gambler 101]

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[Psai]

You're high as a kite if you think you're making 200/hr out the door in EM, let alone doing 50/hrs a week.

200 an hour is easily doable. Really what makes a difference is how many pts, how annoying admin is, patient population, the services your ed provides, etc

 

[TBV]

Because psych patients can be difficult to work with and medicine attracts people with big but fragile egos looking for external validation. A lot of people can't bear the thought of people saying they're "not a real doctor."

Meh more so different strokes for different folks. I want more cooperation from patients than psych patients are capable of giving in many instances (at least in my city). Happy as hell people want to do it, as it's a big problem, but not for me.

 

[PhillyMed777]

Because psych patients can be difficult to work with and medicine attracts people with big but fragile egos looking for external validation. A lot of people can't bear the thought of people saying they're "not a real doctor."

ugh the truth. it burns

 

[tymont12]

At Baylor Scott & White there is a group of 3 full time surgeons and a part time surgeon who is also Hospital CMO (http://jobs.baylorscottandwhite.com/job/6037267/generalsurgery-roundrock-tx/). Clearly there are part time surgeons out there who have time to take care of other responsibilities. You'd have to be 'extra special' to think that everyone running around with an MD degree just wakes up and rushes to the hospital for a 7am-9pm shift, Monday through Saturday. Yes, there are some surgeons out there that can average 25-35 hours a week of pure surgery so they can do 30-60 hours of something else. But hey, thinking is something that not everyone needs to do or has to be good at.

You realize that the CMO is allowed to work part-time in order to meet his obligations as the CMO, right? I'm not saying you can't find part-time positions as a physician, but normal time is 50-60 hrs per week or more, with part-time being closer to 30-40 for docs. Most docs work harder than I think you understand. They don't complain about it because it's been ingrained in them to work like that.

Part-time is hard to find because your low operating volume doesn't negate your need for malpractice, health insurance, etc. and partners don't like to subsidize part-time workers unless it's beneficial to them financially. Who wants to hire someone who shows up and peaces out, dumping messes on them because you have your special snowflake schedule?

Similarly, that snowflake job posting you listed has call of 1:4...it's nearly impossible to find a job as a physician where you show up, do your work, tune out and don't worry afterwards. Unless it's EM.

 

[FiveOClock]

Similarly, that snowflake job posting you listed has call of 1:4...it's nearly impossible to find a job as a physician where you show up, do your work, tune out and don't worry afterwards. Unless it's EM.

It does seem that young physicians want to move in this direction in exchange for lower salaries, which is probably a trade most employers will be quite amenable to. If something happens with the patient after hours, contact the NP on call.

 

[Dr. Death]

Clearly a special snowflake as well, I'd go as far to say more special than I.



At Baylor Scott & White there is a group of 3 full time surgeons and a part time surgeon who is also Hospital CMO (http://jobs.baylorscottandwhite.com/job/6037267/generalsurgery-roundrock-tx/). Clearly there are part time surgeons out there who have time to take care of other responsibilities. You'd have to be 'extra special' to think that everyone running around with an MD degree just wakes up and rushes to the hospital for a 7am-9pm shift, Monday through Saturday. Yes, there are some surgeons out there that can average 25-35 hours a week of pure surgery so they can do 30-60 hours of something else. But hey, thinking is something that not everyone needs to do or has to be good at.

If this was a regularly occurring thing don't you think everyone would want to be doing it? But I'm sure you're the genius that will back down the private practice and hospital administrators and they'll beg you to come work for them even a few hours a week

 

[akwho]

You realize that the CMO is allowed to work part-time in order to meet his obligations as the CMO, right? I'm not saying you can't find part-time positions as a physician, but normal time is 50-60 hrs per week or more, with part-time being closer to 30-40 for docs. Most docs work harder than I think you understand. They don't complain about it because it's been ingrained in them to work like that.

Part-time is hard to find because your low operating volume doesn't negate your need for malpractice, health insurance, etc. and partners don't like to subsidize part-time workers unless it's beneficial to them financially. Who wants to hire someone who shows up and peaces out, dumping messes on them because you have your special snowflake schedule?

I know an ortho that was private practice, then got courted by Kaiser. After negotiating, the maximum they were willing to offer was three-quarters his previous salary. He told them he would work three-quarters of the year then. He's now 9-months on 3-months off, but when he's on he's working ortho hours (60-80hrs/week). You can make it as a part-time surgeon, but not if your private practice as the referrals would all dry up when you missed the last 3-months.

 

[Dr. Death]

I know an ortho that was private practice, then got courted by Kaiser. After negotiating, the maximum they were willing to offer was three-quarters his previous salary. He told them he would work three-quarters of the year then. He's now 9-months on 3-months off, but when he's on he's working ortho hours (60-80hrs/week). You can make it as a part-time surgeon, but not if your private practice as the referrals would all dry up when you missed the last 3-months.

But even so, the guy is probably a rockstar and that schedule is still a far cry from the 25-35 hours a week the other guy was claiming

 

[tymont12]

It does seem that young physicians want to move in this direction in exchange for lower salaries, which is probably a trade most employers will be quite amenable to. If something happens with the patient after hours, contact the NP on call.

I totally agree with having options for lower hours but fewer hours for lower salary is not cheaper for employers. Per employee administrative costs are big. For each physician, that can total $100K+ per year between malpractice, health insurance, time off, scheduling, support staff, etc. Do you think any admin is going to hire two surgeons at 30 hours, half-time, with double the admin costs of a person who will gladly work all 60 hours for both of them?

The reason part-time is hard to find is because it's employee-centric, not employer-centric. for better or worse.

 

[Slack3r]

It does seem that young physicians want to move in this direction in exchange for lower salaries, which is probably a trade most employers will be quite amenable to. If something happens with the patient after hours, contact the NP on call.

I wonder how the NP manages pneumoperitoneum.

 

[Frazier]

I wonder how the NP manages pneumoperitoneum.

"Air in belly?"

 

[Slack3r]

Have any of you even ever paid taxes?! You can't bring home over 300k post tax. This is kind of hilarious. I wish!! Also you'll likely be paying 15-20k in loans


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Lol, wtf is this? You might as well have posted, "I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MATH WORKS."

 

[metopic]

You're high as a kite if you think you're making 200/hr out the door in EM, let alone doing 50/hrs a week.

What? I know for a fact that every EM group in my major metro area offers >= 210/hr for EM. And the 210 group is with benefits... And this is not Texas. I've had the EM folks boast of going to rural texas and making 400-500 an hour. EM is HOT right now. I don't know why I'm doing IM and fellowship lol. Guess the heart wants what it wants.

 

[FiveOClock]

I totally agree with having options for lower hours but fewer hours for lower salary is not cheaper for employers. Per employee administrative costs are big. For each physician, that can total $100K+ per year between malpractice, health insurance, time off, scheduling, support staff, etc. Do you think any admin is going to hire two surgeons at 30 hours, half-time, with double the admin costs of a person who will gladly work all 60 hours for both of them?

The reason part-time is hard to find is because it's employee-centric, not employer-centric. for better or worse.

I suppose you misunderstood what I meant. I meant they will happily pay less per "RVU" or work unit or hour or however you want to measure it. This change would make up for their lost "economy of scales" if you will. So pay 150k a year for 40 hrs a week rather than 300k for 60.

I wonder how the NP manages pneumoperitoneum.

They know how to use uptodate. Shouldn't be a problem. Look, I found everything they need to know right here.

 

[Stagg737]

I was just trying to point out that any specialty can have pts that are difficult in their own ways.

Yea, inpatient psych is probably the only field where you legitimately have to worry about a patient physically harming you on a daily basis though. I don't think I've met any inpatient guys that haven't been attacked by their patients multiple times, and some of them say it's a pretty regular occurrence, those guys work with the hardcore cases though.

 

[mistafab]

You are totally right and now I realize that I am wrong. I am going to call up all the physician scientists, technologists, entrepreneurs, and administrators and tell them that a person who goes by "Dr. Death" said that their careers are not allowed if they only spend 25-35 hours a week with patients. They will thank me for the call since it will 'click' with them as well. They will then walk down the hall and apologize to their employers for being so brash when they took the job. "What was I thinking," they'll say.

If this was a regularly occurring thing don't you think everyone would want to be doing it? But I'm sure you're the genius that will back down the private practice and hospital administrators and they'll beg you to come work for them even a few hours a week

But even so, the guy is probably a rockstar and that schedule is still a far cry from the 25-35 hours a week the other guy was claiming

 

[Giovanotto]

 

[tymont12]

Wow, you've really polished your d-bagginess into a finely honed tool!

 

[Psai]

You are totally right and now I realize that I am wrong. I am going to call up all the physician scientists, technologists, entrepreneurs, and administrators and tell them that a person who goes by "Dr. Death" said that their careers are not allowed if they only spend 25-35 hours a week with patients. They will thank me for the call since it will 'click' with them as well. They will then walk down the hall and apologize to their employers for being so brash when they took the job. "What was I thinking," they'll say.

What is going on here