How do you feel about FMGs???

[b&ierstiefel]

Actually, I think I'll retract my former statement, and agree with AMG_MD. I mean really, he's right. It's those freakin' foreigners, coming here to steal OUR money. Why should have to compete against someone from another country? They're clearly inferior to me, they aren't even worthy to compete against me.

I couldn't agree more with them stealing out residencies. It's highway robbery! But while I agree with you, I think we need to think BIGGER. While banning them from coming into our country (let's face it -- they just don't deserve it), let's start looking at our own society.

What's this letting women into medicine!? I mean, they are FAR too emotional to be physicians, let alone good ones. And surgeons? Please. Women should stick to nursing, where they can all use their maternal instinct. Leave the manly work to the men -- the ones cut out to be doctors.

While we're cutting women out, let's look at racial groups too! I mean, these freakin' IMG's come from various countries, so we can therefore decide that anyone NOT from the USA (cut off 2nd generation -- they become smart) shouldn't be allowed in Med School -- no -- school, period. They're not smart enough, and they'll just pull the rest of us down.

Stand with me, BROTHERS (or sisters, but only if you're nurses), and say NO to anyone but white males in Medicine (afterall, we're the only ones cut out for it. No, we were never immigrants).

(To anyone who took that seriously, and I hope it was no one, yes, it was sarcasm.)

CH

Now your post is making ME cry!

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[yaah]

I support banning arrogant condescending pricks from the practice of medicine, and I believe Andy would agree with me. If one is an arrogant condescending (and probably money grubbing) prick they should not be allowed to take residency spots from otherwise qualified individuals who work hard and actually provide a valuable service to communities.

 

[brahms]

Your story is making me cry...... what a classic example of crappy argumentation and gross generalization. Are you implying that every IMG is "fantastic" and every AMG is "crappy"? Jeez - do you even know the meaning of the word patriotism? If things are as bad as you make them out to be, then why do you think that the influx of IMGs is increasing on a yearly basis?

I was shocked to read that you are an MS1 at MSU. Let me tell you, as an MS4 from your own medical school, you are going to have residents who are FMGs come third year. Even if you end up at white man's land Grand Rapids or Kalamazoo, you will have to work with FMGs. They will take part in teaching you, training you, and helping you get through your rotation. Some of them win resident teaching awards over their US-schooled colleagues. Maybe when you have actually worked with FMGs, you will come to have a little respect for them. And perhaps when you are on the interview trail, you will realize how much tougher the interview trail is for the FMG and you'll cut them some slack.

 

[AznTrojan]

courtesy of south park.. the goobacks episode..

"they took err jobs"

 

[MD'05]

I support banning arrogant condescending pricks from the practice of medicine, and I believe Andy would agree with me. If one is an arrogant condescending (and probably money grubbing) prick they should not be allowed to take residency spots from otherwise qualified individuals who work hard and actually provide a valuable service to communities.

Wow. That is not very diplomatic for a moderator. Someone hit a nerve?

 

[MD'05]

Even if you end up at white man's land Grand Rapids or Kalamazoo,

I'm curious. Why is GR and Kalamazoo considered "white man's land"? I am being totally sincere in my question. Please enlighten me.

 

[yaah]

Wow. That is not very diplomatic for a moderator. Someone hit a nerve?

It's not necessarily directed at anyone in particular. It's also not meant to be diplomatic. If anyone who is arrogant and obnoxious wishes to defend themself and say why they deserve their residency spot over an equally smart and intelligent person (sometimes they do make decent doctors, after all) who just happens to also have tact and be polite, be my guest.

No one hit a nerve. I tend not to enjoy hearing from people who think they are better than general groups of others based on their resume only.

 

[MD'05]

I tend not to enjoy hearing from people who think they are better than general groups of others based on their resume only.

I agree with you, but isn't that what medicine is all about?

 

[yaah]

I agree with you, but isn't that what medicine is all about?

Not entirely. Resume is important, but it isn't everything. And country of origin and training background has very little to do with what kind of person a physician is. In my training I have met people from the "best" institutions who I wouldn't send my dog to for treatment. And people from the "worst" institutions that I would go to myself. Lineage means nothing unless you back it up with actions. Resume is only the FIRST step. A great resume can get you an interview and even a be a huge factor in a residency spot, but without a decent performance and a solid work ethic and respect for others, your career is not going to go as well as you think or hope.

Disparaging someone (or eliminating them automatically as a quality physician) solely or predominantly on the basis of their national origin or training background is unbelievably unprofessional. And the truth is, some people who think like this will never learn. They will meet an occasional FMG and see a perceived fault, and it will validate their views.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I support banning arrogant condescending pricks from the practice of medicine, and I believe Andy would agree with me. If one is an arrogant condescending (and probably money grubbing) prick they should not be allowed to take residency spots from otherwise qualified individuals who work hard and actually provide a valuable service to communities.

I totally agree.

Resume is important, but it isn't everything. And country of origin and training background has very little to do with what kind of person a physician is. In my training I have met people from the "best" institutions who I wouldn't send my dog to for treatment. And people from the "worst" institutions that I would go to myself. Lineage means nothing unless you back it up with actions. Resume is only the FIRST step. A great resume can get you an interview and even a be a huge factor in a residency spot, but without a decent performance and a solid work ethic and respect for others, your career is not going to go as well as you think or hope.

Disparaging someone (or eliminating them automatically as a quality physician) solely or predominantly on the basis of their national origin or training background is unbelievably unprofessional. And the truth is, some people who think like this will never learn. They will meet an occasional FMG and see a perceived fault, and it will validate their views.

That was deep.

Anyways, it seems like our friend has been banned. I suspect he will be back soon.

 

[yaah]

That was deep.

Stop making fun of me!! That post took 2 minutes out of my day!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Stop making fun of me!! That post took 2 minutes out of my day!

No really...that WAS deep. I wasn't poking fun.

 

[RMT]

Not entirely. Resume is important, but it isn't everything. And country of origin and training background has very little to do with what kind of person a physician is. In my training I have met people from the "best" institutions who I wouldn't send my dog to for treatment. And people from the "worst" institutions that I would go to myself. Lineage means nothing unless you back it up with actions. Resume is only the FIRST step. A great resume can get you an interview and even a be a huge factor in a residency spot, but without a decent performance and a solid work ethic and respect for others, your career is not going to go as well as you think or hope.

Disparaging someone (or eliminating them automatically as a quality physician) solely or predominantly on the basis of their national origin or training background is unbelievably unprofessional. And the truth is, some people who think like this will never learn. They will meet an occasional FMG and see a perceived fault, and it will validate their views.

Nicely said!

My two cents worth.........the patient becomes the ultimate judge on whether you are a good physician or not. It wouldnt matter if you graduated from the best medical schools, an AMG, IMG, FMG or whatever, if you cant relate/empathize or establish good rappore with your patients, your career is going no where.

 

[MD'05]

Nicely said!

My two cents worth.........the patient becomes the ultimate judge on whether you are a good physician or not. It wouldnt matter if you graduated from the best medical schools, an AMG, IMG, FMG or whatever, if you cant relate/empathize or establish good rappore with your patients, your career is going no where.

Thats true and there are many FMGs who do not do this where I go to school. And it is not just the doctors, but the nurses as well. On numerous occasions I have been told that "it is so nice to have an AMERICAN doctor". It's just like when a patient tells me that they want an Arabic doctor. I don't take offense, it is a cultural thing. Foreigners just don't understand the subtleties of American culture. Sorry.

 

[yaah]

Thats true and there are many FMGs who do not do this where I go to school. And it is not just the doctors, but the nurses as well. On numerous occasions I have been told that "it is so nice to have an AMERICAN doctor". It's just like when a patient tells me that they want an Arabic doctor. I don't take offense, it is a cultural thing. Foreigners just don't understand the subtleties of American culture. Sorry.

Yes there are foreigners who do not understand american subtleties, and there are also way too many american born and trained doctors who do not as well. What do you hear more often?

1) It's so nice to have an American doctor.
or
2) It's so nice to have an intelligent, personable doctor.

I don't know about you, but I hear #2 MUCH more than #1. Lots of patients dislike their doctors - when they fit a certain stereotype or are foreign it is a lot easier to disparage them, in the context of simply saying "they're not american and don't understand." Well, what's the excuse of the innumerable AMGs who act the same way? Patients want a good doctor - some have an easier time relating to someone who looks and sounds like them. Some don't care, as long as they treat them well. Perhaps those who come from different cultures need to work harder to fit in and establish relationships with patients, but obviously it can be done.

 

[automaton]

Anyone who achieves the same amount of success deserves the same amount of respect in my opinion. If you come from a **** school in the middle of nowhere and get into my med school class, I will treat you as an equal. If you come from the University of Guadalajara and match into my residency, I will treat you like an equal.

But don't think that I won't make fun of your sorry ass until that happens.

 

[PsychMD]

Re. the patient's point of view ("Isn't it "nice" to have an American doctor who understands me better"): I was thinking that, realistically, an increasing proportion of patients themselves are non-white or non-US born as well, reflecting the changes in our demographics within the last 2 decades (wasn't it something like about 15% of the people currently living in the US are non-US born according to the latest census, and growing?). So...from the point of view of these patients...what matters is that ANY doctor (AMG, FMG, whatever their background of origin, etc.) should be able to empathise and communicate and be professional and knowledgeable about the problem at hand. Because, let's face it, in most major cities nowadays, an increasingly frequent scenario is having patients, doctors, students, nurses, administrators on any team that are each and everyone from a completely different corner of the world, and different cultural and ethnic background. Just on my team on ONE patient today, the patient is African-American, US born, but from parents who are from Ghana, my nurse is from New Zealand, the student nurse is from Colombia, the colleague covering for me this week-end is Phillipino, and the quality assurance administrator dealing with the insurance that called me is from England. And this is just ONE patient. Well, I am in the Bay area, so this may explain things a little bit...but I've practiced in NY, in TX, and in PA, and even did a short locums in HI, so I've worked with people and seen patients literally from every corner of the world. In HI, the resident assigned to my ward was from S. Africa, did his school in Australia, and was now a resident in HI! In TX, I had lots of patients from Mexico, but also an increasing number of Asian patients. When I was in PA, we had the Bosnian refugees, we had people from E. Europe, from South America (both patients and colleagues), etc. (I won't even mention NY because it's too obvious.) And I've really practiced mostly in SUBURBAN community hospital settings (not necessarily "downtown" settings). In what world do you guys practice (and learn)...that you're even thinking that pts. could be worrying about whether their doctor is an AMG vs. a FMG?

Here's a link re. US demographics:

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2003/ACSTables.html#tb1

Other survey highlights:

The U.S. foreign-born population increased nearly 5 percent between 2001 and 2002.
About 52 percent of the nation's foreign-born population is from Latin America, 27 percent from Asia and 15 percent from Europe.
California (34.9 percent), New York (10.7 percent) and Texas (6 percent) have the largest shares of foreign-born population from Asia.
The largest share of the foreign-born population in New York comes from the Caribbean (25.6 percent), followed by Asia (24.3 percent) and Europe (20.5 percent).
More than 74 percent of all foreign-born Cubans reside in Florida, but Cubans represent just 22 percent of Florida's total foreign-born population.
In Midwestern states, Iowa's foreign-born population increased an estimated 26 percent, to nearly 98,000 in 2002.

 

[RastaMan]

I was thinking about this topic and happened to stumble across this thread...from the people I've seen I feel that there's different categories of FMGs:
1) People born and raised in other countries who went to med school in their home country: The guys I've seen who succesfully matched did very well in their med school at home -->spent an additional couple of years to take the USMLE as well as do research/get a master's degree in the US --> did well on the USMLEs and in their grad schools/research. They still ended up matching at places that were far below their caliber, but were happy for the chance to practice medicine in the US. In residency they did very well, and ended up securing competitive fellowships like cards/GI. Good for them.
2) American students who had decent grades/MCATs but didn't get into med school in the US: Seems like if they had spent a couple of years doing research or improving their test scores or doing a postbac they would have had a shot at med school here. But decided they didn't want to deal with the uncertainty of wasting years without a guarantee that they would get in. They ended up going to the caribbean, getting decent but not stellar board scores (note this is only the people i've met), and matching at community/lower tier univeristy programs. I have no problem with that, but I hate when they bitch about how much tougher it is for them, and bias etc...they knew what they were getting into.
3) American students who had piss poor grades and realized that there was not way in hell they were going to get in to med school in the US: For some reason all these people had rich parents...so daddy paid a handsome sum to send them abroad to med school. After passing med school in poland, etc they came back home, failed boards, took boards again, passed with scores <200. 2 of these people still ended up matching in psych, family med...They're pretty nice people, but I'd never let them treat anyone in my family...nice person does not always equal competent physician.

Thats my 2 cents.

 

[Whodathunkit]

3) American students who had piss poor grades and realized that there was not way in hell they were going to get in to med school in the US: For some reason all these people had rich parents...so daddy paid a handsome sum to send them abroad to med school. After passing med school in poland, etc they came back home, failed boards, took boards again, passed with scores <200. 2 of these people still ended up matching in psych, family med...They're pretty nice people, but I'd never let them treat anyone in my family...nice person does not always equal competent physician.

For some reason, I think this place is where most of the bitterness comes from. Although not all have rich parents, some take out a hefty bit of loans to pay. There are some medical schools abroad where for the right price...you'll get an MD degree(or some derivation of such). Same with DOs. I personally know of LOTS of DO's who went to DO school when they couldn't get into allopathic medical school. Not that I can totally blame them though. The people who ultimately have the option to take or not to take a FMG are the residency programs. And as long as they continue to take FMGs(from whichever scenario) people will continue to pursue those other options.

Don't hate the playa...hate the game...

 

[novacek88]

This debate will never end. As long as there is a studentdoctor dot net, threads like this will always exist. I try to stay away from these threads because I really don't care one way or another but it is entertaining to see some people get their panties in a bunch over an issue in an internet "chatroom".
Aight, I need to get my panties unbunched now

Likewise, the debate on racial tolerance still exists in many states. I'm serious, there are people in places like Atlanta who argue against mixed racial marriages because their offspring will lack an identity. There are always some groups that adhere to foolish ideaology. This backlash against FMG's is no different. There are always ignorant people who are not comfortable with accepting those who are different. I have learned that it's not worth trying to convince in the racist 5% from changing their views. Rather, I just relish the fact that 95% of the population are decent and caring people.

 

[VentdependenT]

I have no problem with DO's and FMG's.

 

[helena]

I'm a Swedish medical student thinking about doing residency in the U.S. Not because I couldn't get great training here but I like challenges and I've enjoyed being in the US (Okay I hate Bush but there are a lot of intelligent people in the US, especially on the west coast and in the northeast). I think European and other International graduates have to put a lot of effort into taking the steps, since our curriculum doesn't in any way prepere us for those tests (I did my pathology course in the US as an exchange student so I know how focused US med schools are on the boards). But I also know that US med students work very hard and I imagine it is competitive to get into med school, as it is here. Swedish medical students unable to get into med school in Sweden also have to go to other countries to do there training and they are NOT looked down upon when returing. Why would they? Just the fact that they're willing to move to another country to pursue their dream career is impressing.
People travel and move to other countrys to work all the time, in all professions, why would medicine be any different? It's clearly unfavourable to be and IMG/FMG when applying to US residency, especially if you need a VISA, but I'm really happy that FMGs do come to the US (and we have to take the exact same tests as US grads!) and that they are accepted. I think it broadens the art of medicine in the US to have doctors with different experiences practising and working together. As it does for European countries. As for myself, I can't think of working and living in the same country my whole life and I think it's great that I have the oppurtunity to work in other countries. And I agree that NO ONE has the right to get a certain residency, it's up to the PD who does. It's nice to have equal oppurtunities though.
US grads, IMGs, FMGs, we all work hard.

 

[tom_jones]

there are a lot of intelligent people in the US, especially on the west coast and in the northeast

Why, because they voted for Kerry? And the rest of the country is stupid?


Get Bent

 

[helena]

Why, because they voted for Kerry? And the rest of the country is stupid?


Get Bent

Actually some really intelligent people that I know probably voted for Bush, so I guess it's more complicated than that, I just feel very strongly about Bush - he stands for so many things that are against fundamental human rights.

 

[Slowmo214]

I second what Helena said about Americans. Some VERY bright people over there, but MASSES of ignorants as well. And don't get me started on Bush and his foolishness. Luckily his time is over in 2008.

I'm a Finnish (Finland is right next to Sweden) medical student and am interested in doing my residency in the US as well. Doesn't seem very likely but one can always dream.

 

[MD'05]

I second what Helena said about Americans. Some VERY bright people over there, but MASSES of ignorants as well. And don't get me started on Bush and his foolishness. Luckily his time is over in 2008.

I'm a Finnish (Finland is right next to Sweden) medical student and am interested in doing my residency in the US as well. Doesn't seem very likely but one can always dream.

Why not train in Finland and avoid the ignorant American masses?

 

[efex101]

Ha ha ha...and yes we do know where Finland is...I guess we are just part of the "ignorant masses" sheesh.

 

[Finally M3]

I second what Helena said about Americans. Some VERY bright people over there, but MASSES of ignorants as well. And don't get me started on Bush and his foolishness. Luckily his time is over in 2008.

I'm a Finnish (Finland is right next to Sweden) medical student and am interested in doing my residency in the US as well. Doesn't seem very likely but one can always dream.

Yes, yes. Europeans are so enlightened and moral. That's why millions died during the Holocaust, that's why millions died in Stalin's purges, that's why ethnic cleansing campaigns in the former Yugoslavia continued right under your F-ing noses before the US lead NATO (aka the US & the U.K.) to bring some sort of order to the region, that's why you continue to look the other way as Russia continues their genocidal campaign in Chechnya because they provide Central Europe with oil & natural gas...

Spare me your idealistic bullsh*t. The only reason why most European countries were able to offer more social services to their people during the 70s until the fall of the Iron Curtain was because the United States devoted so much money, arms, and blood in defending you that you didn't have to utilize much of your GDP in defense. And to pay for your utopia, you still lose 50% of your income to taxes, and you still have unemployment rates over 8% in most areas, and over 10% in France & Germany.

If you hate us, if you think of us as ignorant, stay the hell home. The residency spot you crave is subsidized by the 'ignorant' US citizen and his taxes, and would better go to someone who actually appreciates this country and the values for which it stands.

 

[NYC Girl]

Yes, yes. Europeans are so enlightened and moral. That's why millions died during the Holocaust, that's why millions died in Stalin's purges, that's why ethnic cleansing campaigns in the former Yugoslavia continued right under your F-ing noses before the US lead NATO (aka the US & the U.K.) to bring some sort of order to the region, that's why you continue to look the other way as Russia continues their genocidal campaign in Chechnya because they provide Central Europe with oil & natural gas...

Spare me your idealistic bullsh*t. The only reason why most European countries were able to offer more social services to their people during the 70s until the fall of the Iron Curtain was because the United States devoted so much money, arms, and blood in defending you that you didn't have to utilize much of your GDP in defense. And to pay for your utopia, you still lose 50% of your income to taxes, and you still have unemployment rates over 8% in most areas, and over 10% in France & Germany.

If you hate us, if you think of us as ignorant, stay the hell home. The residency spot you crave is subsidized by the 'ignorant' US citizen and his taxes, and would better go to someone who actually appreciates this country and the values for which it stands.

Holy crap, are you serious...? You do realize that Europe is a heterogeneous entity, not consisting entirely of Nazi-era Germany and former Iron Curtain nations? If you want to dredge up only the dirty portions of the past, the U.S. has more than its share of ridiculous actions. We as a nation have devoted money and arms to countless violent conflicts, as well as to international defense.

European, and specifically Scandinavian countries have the best health indicators in the world - leaving the U.S. in the dust in terms of numerous measures (maternal and neonatal mortality, etc) Because of our fears about big government/my taxes going to subsidize that lazy guy who won't get a job, etc. 45 million U.S. citizens are uninsured - 75% of whom are employed in low-wage positions, but nevertheless contribute to the taxes that you mentioned.

Everyone who reacts defensively by lashing out and smacking all naysayers in the head with the American flag whenever anyone points out any of the faults of the U.S. or its leaders, simply contributes to the worldwide perception of the U.S. as a bunch of yes, ignorant cowboys who disregard the opinions of others if they conflict with their own. The U.S. was founded upon priniciples of freedom of political expression. I can't believe that future physicians would be mocking "foreigners" and telling them to "stay out of our country" if you disagree with us....

 

[Dr Who]

Everyone who reacts defensively by lashing out and smacking all naysayers in the head with the American flag whenever anyone points out any of the faults of the U.S. or its leaders, simply contributes to the worldwide perception of the U.S. as a bunch of yes, ignorant cowboys who disregard the opinions of others if they conflict with their own. The U.S. was founded upon priniciples of freedom of political expression. I can't believe that future physicians would be mocking "foreigners" and telling them to "stay out of our country" if you disagree with us....

I agree with NYC girl. Why is it that some people react so violently when someone disagrees??? Each of us has a right to believe in whatever we think is right.
Believe it or not, not everyone LIKES bush!!! The way some people react to opinions that are not in accord with what they believe says a lot about them as individuals. Maybe the comment about regional ignorance was not the best thing to say, but the replies were just as bad or worse. Do we need that in medicine???

 

[NYC Girl]

I've calmed down a bit The comments I was hearing here really rubbed me the wrong way, particularly because I'm currently in a very impoverished Muslim country doing an international rotation - where the popular press regularly points out the faults of the U.S. and George Bush (which are echoed by most of my colleagues in liberal NYC!), but yet where most of the brightest young students want to come to the U.S. to study because it provides the best schools, as well as much more ample economic opportunities than are currently available to them.

I may disagree with many of Bush's policies, but I have as much right to take part in the workforce (and residency programs ) as anyone regardless of my political opinions. IMG's have that same opportunity, though by nature of the system, they are considered after American medical grads, and therefore have to work a little harder to secure the same spot.

 

[MD'05]

I've calmed down a bit The comments I was hearing here really rubbed me the wrong way, particularly because I'm currently in a very impoverished Muslim country doing an international rotation - where the popular press regularly points out the faults of the U.S. and George Bush (which are echoed by most of my colleagues in liberal NYC!), but yet where most of the brightest young students want to come to the U.S. to study because it provides the best schools, as well as much more ample economic opportunities than are currently available to them.

Do us a favor and stay there.

 

[Slowmo214]

So if I were to praise everything about the US then it would be ok for me to come there and do my residency? I'm not allowed to criticize AT ALL without being labeled a US-hater?

 

[MD'05]

So if I were to praise everything about the US then it would be ok for me to come there and do my residency? I'm not allowed to criticize AT ALL without being labeled a US-hater?

Why would you want to go to a place where you would be so miserable?

 

[cdh86]

Who said she'd be miserable? By your logic, everyone who doesn't like George Bush should just leave the country. It's still there home, and while he doesn't have control of domestic policy, the reality is that in 4 years, he will no longer be president.

Up here, we had a majority Liberal government for 12 years, and currently have a minority Liberal Government. Just because some people don't agree strongly with their policies doesn't mean they are 100% against them.

Yes, some people do feel that Bush has some odd ideas on Foreign Policies. It's be shown that he did indeed make some errors. I wouldn't necessarily say he 'lied', in fact, I imagine he believed that what he acted on was indeed the truth. But, like life, crap happens.

What I'm trying to get at is that people will live in countries where they aren't 100% in agreement with the government -- people rarely are. Sure, some of the Federal Government Policies affect me, but for the most part in my day to day life, I go to school, I go to work, I go home, I go out with friends. If she can find like-minded people to her in the Northeast/West Coast, well then, why not let her? Should any state that didn't vote Republican be removed from the union? Are ALL people who voted Democrat currently miserable?

 

[MD'05]

Up here, we had a majority Liberal government for 12 years, and currently have a minority Liberal Government. Just because some people don't agree strongly with their policies doesn't mean they are 100% against them.

Up here? What are you, a Canadian? You should mind your own business. After all, you're not even an American.

 

[Miklos]

As an American who lives abroad, I am sick and tired of hearing anti-American rhetoric from foreigners who want nothing more than a green card, because relatively speaking their system provides them with so few opportunities. IMO, it is plain jealousy.

To the Finnish and Swedish posters:

Why do you want to escape socialist "paradise"?

 

[cdh86]

Up here? What are you, a Canadian? You should mind your own business. After all, you're not even an American.

No, I'm from that other country directly above you.

Your argument is based on the fact that they don't like your government, and therefore should stay out. I think that's an asinine argument based on what I stated above.

CH

 

[MD'05]

Your argument is based on the fact that they don't like your government, and therefore should stay out. I think that's an asinine argument based on what I stated above.

The only country I know that is DIRECTLY above the US is Canada.

I think staying out is a good start. If someone doesn't like a government, why would you go there to live? That is what's asinine!

 

[Dr Who]

Up here? What are you, a Canadian? You should mind your own business. After all, you're not even an American.

Im an American and I take offense to the way you think. If this is truly how you are as an individual I feel bad for the future of medicine. By your hardline stance, intolerance and hatered, you veer away from republican ideals as represented by the greatest American president of them all, Abraham Lincoln.
You need to gain some maturity and broaden your horizons a bit. BTW unless you are a native american, we are ALL immigrants or decendants of mimmigrants, be it from Europe, Afica, Asia or Latin America. That to me makes your views illogical. I didnt know Columbus came to America and discovered a land of European WASP republicans.
You should realize that your comments are hateful and hurtful. If you keep up with your readings you would realize that a huge part of the reason our national healthcare system is still afloat is precisely due to AMG's and IMG's.

 

[cdh86]

Canada is also the only country that has had 3 majority liberal governments and is currently under a minority one (to my knowledge). I know I'm from Canada, it was sarcasm on my part. Come on, I know that the States president is Republican in his second term (That being said, I'm certain there's many canucks who don't )

People stay in places, even if they don't like the government, for a variety of reasons. Some stay because of their roots, some stay because while they might not be a fan of a foreign policy (ie, like many people don't like George Bush's), they may not mind the domestic policies. Maybe the living in the US is still better than the alternative of their own country, maybe there happens to be a program that they are interested in. Who knows, the reasons are endless.

My parents, and I myself, am not avid supporters of Canada's Liberal Government -- doesn't mean I'm going to leave based soley on that. While I may not agree 100% with what they do, I don't 100% disagree. The government doesn't persecute me, nor does it adversly effect me. It's just not 100% benefitting me, but obviously it is benefitting other Canadians, so *shrug*.

 

[MD'05]

If you keep up with your readings you would realize that a huge part of the reason our national healthcare system is still afloat is precisely due to AMG's and IMG's.

National healthcare system? Sounds like either you are not an American, or you haven't kept up with your reading.

What you need is to get a thick skin. Once you actually are in the hospitals, get back to me regarding my hard stance.

 

[MD'05]

My parents, and I myself, am not avid supporters of Canada's Liberal Government -- doesn't mean I'm going to leave based soley on that. While I may not agree 100% with what they do, I don't 100% disagree. The government doesn't persecute me, nor does it adversly effect me. It's just not 100% benefitting me, but obviously it is benefitting other Canadians, so *shrug*.

OK, fine. Point taken. I cannot argue with a Canadian because you guys are just too mellow and your country is just too pleasant.

Things I like about Canada:

1. maple syrup
2. Conan O'Brien
3. Niagara Falls
4. My Canadian Leather Couch

 

[cdh86]

OK, fine. Point taken. I cannot argue with a Canadian because you guys are just too mellow and your country is just too pleasant.

Things I like about Canada:

1. maple syrup
2. Conan O'Brien
3. Niagara Falls
4. My Canadian Leather Couch

Oddly enough, the same things I like about Canada

 

[helena]

I don't totally agree with the government here (Sweden) either. But if I were to move it wouldn't be bc of the government, as I wouldn't move to the US bc of their government. So I may hate Bush and most of the things he stands for, but half the country doesn't like him either.
And we do have way too high taxes here (although eduaction including med school is for free and health care is basically for free too).
I kind of see it as a challenge discussing these things with Americans - our backgrounds are totally different - I'm slowly beginning/trying to understand this. I dont want to offend people but sometimes it's hard when you feel very strongly about things and you kind of want to "educate" them. I guess no country has the perfect government or health care system though.
But I just gotta ask one thing - what's this thing about Americans not being able to be naked with the same sex in the gym dressing room??!
I guess I can only speak for girls thoug but I find it kind of funny
So, what do I like in America? Well, I really like the flavoured outmeals!

 

[Sunsun]

Hello MD'05,
It sounds like you believe a large purpose of a nation/government is to do what's best for THEIR citizens and they ought to do so - sounds reasonable. Then it follows that purpose of a business is to make money and ought to do so. This does seem to follow good logic until you apply this to a more extreme situation, I'm sure you can think of one (the purpose of a rapist, theif, etc...) My intention is not by any means to attack you, just some food for thought.

 

[drgirl]

I think staying out is a good start. If someone doesn't like a government, why would you go there to live? That is what's asinine!

So, if in say, 4 or 8 or even 20 years, you don't like the current American government, would you leave?

 

[MD'05]

But I just gotta ask one thing - what's this thing about Americans not being able to be naked with the same sex in the gym dressing room??!

If you like to be around the same sex, naked in the gym dressing room, that would mean you are at the Y-M-C-A and that would mean you are GAY!

 

[MD'05]

So, if in say, 4 or 8 or even 20 years, you don't like the current American government, would you leave?

Yes I would. In addition, I would not go to any country where I don't agree with the government or governmental policies.

 

[MD'05]

Hello MD'05,
It sounds like you believe a large purpose of a nation/government is to do what's best for THEIR citizens and they ought to do so - sounds reasonable. Then it follows that purpose of a business is to make money and ought to do so. This does seem to follow good logic until you apply this to a more extreme situation, I'm sure you can think of one (the purpose of a rapist, theif, etc...) My intention is not by any means to attack you, just some food for thought.

I'm sorry. Your point is what exactly?