Honest Starting Salary

[mmc12]

I would NOT go into dentistry if you are only making 98,000 a year and taking out 400K+ in student loans

I know many of many consultants who only have BAs in finance/business who are making 150K+/year at 24/25 years of age....

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[MandalorianDMD]

Minimum you should make is $750 a day as a new grad without AED/GPR. I’ve heard those that get between $750-1500 a day. Anything under is just someone low balling you and you accepting it, which let’s be honest, if you can hire someone to do work for less, why wouldn’t you throw low numbers out first before negotiating?


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[Quinque]

Minimum you should make is $750 a day as a new grad without AED/GPR. I’ve heard those that get between $750-1500 a day. Anything under is just someone low balling you and you accepting it, which let’s be honest, if you can hire someone to do work for less, why wouldn’t you throw low numbers out first before negotiating?


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Are you a dentist? 200k base pay a year for someone without any experience seems like wishful thinking. I hope this is true through, don't get me wrong lol.

 

[MandalorianDMD]

Are you a dentist? 200k base pay a year for someone without any experience seems like wishful thinking. I hope this is true through, don't get me wrong lol.

D4 with all my buds who left to go practice now or enter residency.

Also, if you negotiate higher, you’ll probably earn less production or collection %. The lower your base, the higher you can request on collection. Someone I know first year out made $220k.

Are there people who earn $120k? I’m sure of it. There are always people out there who are willing to work more for less.

If you negotiate a horrible contract, don’t hire a lawyer to negotiate terms, go into a saturated area like LA, I wouldn’t be surprised.


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[Quinque]

D4 with all my buds who left to go practice now or enter residency.

Also, if you negotiate higher, you’ll probably earn less production or collection %. The lower your base, the higher you can request on collection. Someone I know first year out made $220k.

Are there people who earn $120k? I’m sure of it. There are always people out there who are willing to work more for less.

If you negotiate a horrible contract, don’t hire a lawyer to negotiate terms, go into a saturated area like LA, I wouldn’t be surprised.


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Interesting, thanks for your input. I go to school in TX and according to upperclassmen the typical offers they have been getting as a new grad in an urban/suburb area is 120-140k a year for a 5 day work week. And as I said earlier, in FL one dental school told us during the interview day that their graduates on avg make 98k starting in that area. I don't know anyone who applied rural, so don't really know offers for rural TX.

 

[allDAT]

No, the school's presenter was just talking about being frugal with debt/loans and then asked the group "Does anyone know how much you will be making when done with school?" and then she said "our graduates around here make around 98k starting, so if you drinking Starbucks every morning you can imagine how many years it will take to pay off"

I’m not sure where she got the 98k from but it’s not totally unreasonable if you were able to take the average of just brand new dentists from a specific school. I would expect this low of a # to be more reflective of CA grads than FL grads though. What many dental students do not realize during their first few months out is that they may not have a job. Some students spend many months looking for their first job and they take one that is not a good fit and have to start the whole process over again. It can sometimes take 12-24 months to actually land a decent gig.

Young graduates really need to keep in mind that most private offices do not have enough capacity for a full time associate. You know this just by looking at the dental office - if there are 4 chairs, there is no room for another dentist. 4 chairs = 2 chairs for the dentist, 1 for overflow/ERs/crown seats and 1 chair for your RDH. Add one chair per RDH as you grow the practice. An office that supports 2 dentists needs at the minimum 2 full time RDHs - so you then need at least 6 chairs.

Many new graduates take a position in an office where there really is no space for them/no need for them. So a 98k average in the first year out is not necessarily unimaginable.

Everyone on the internet is a big shot. Recent graduates who are struggling are not waving their hands in the air saying “look at me, look at me”. The ones who are vocal are usually “doing well” or full of it. One thing that became very, very clear during COVID, is that a lot of the people who were claiming to crush it, were in a huge crunch when they were forced to close (we were only closed for 3 months at most....these rich dentists can’t support themselves for 3 months without PPP or unemployment money...? That’s very odd to me).

One thing you can do is you can google who you think is doing well. You may be surprised when you use Public Access to Court Electronic Records and see he or she declared bankruptcy...lot’s of smoke and mirrors out there.

 

[allDAT]

Interesting, thanks for your input. I go to school in TX and according to upperclassmen the typical offers they have been getting as a new grad in an urban/suburb area is 120-140k a year for a 5 day work week. And as I said earlier, in FL one dental school told us during the interview day that their graduates on avg make 98k starting in that area. I don't know anyone who applied rural, so don't really know offers for rural TX.

120-140k is more in line with what I have seen. A good CPA is the person you should talk to about other dentist’s incomes.

 

[Faux]

Minimum you should make is $750 a day as a new grad without AED/GPR. I’ve heard those that get between $750-1500 a day. Anything under is just someone low balling you and you accepting it, which let’s be honest, if you can hire someone to do work for less, why wouldn’t you throw low numbers out first before negotiating?


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I have not seen any $750 minimum guarantee offers yet as an AEGD grad. I'm interviewing at a place for 600. My friend accepted 650.

 

[MandalorianDMD]

I have not seen any $750 minimum guarantee offers yet as an AEGD grad. I'm interviewing at a place for 600. My friend accepted 650.

Is that the base? What is the collection %? Location? What did you learn in your AEGD? If you did implants and complex procedures, you should be worth a lot to any practice.


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[Big Time Hoosier]

Is that the base? What is the collection %? Location? What did you learn in your AEGD? If you did implants and complex procedures, you should be worth a lot to any practice.


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Not sure if you’ve been stuck on a desert island for the past 6 months, but the economy kind of sucks right now.

Big Hoss

 

[MandalorianDMD]

Not sure if you’ve been stuck on a desert island for the past 6 months, but the economy kind of sucks right now.

View attachment 310138

Big Hoss

I remember you many, many years ago on SDN. Lolz with all due respect, you’ve always said negative things about dentistry. The economy always sucks. Who wasn’t complaining last year? 3 years ago? 6 years ago. So many threads about dentistry being a bad decision even before, during, and after the 2008 recession.

Better to have dentistry and employed than unemployed and limited job prospects (or none).


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[Big Time Hoosier]

I remember you many, many years ago on SDN. Lolz with all due respect, you’ve always said negative things about dentistry. The economy always sucks. Who wasn’t complaining last year? 3 years ago? 6 years ago. So many threads about dentistry being a bad decision even before, during, and after the 2008 recession.

Better to have dentistry and employed than unemployed and limited job prospects (or none).


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Many, many years ago? Like 5? Is that many, many? Because that’s when I joined.

Most of the graduating residents at my peds program have had their projected daily minimums reduced significantly. One was reduced nearly $300/day. Practice owners are very cautious with daily minimums now. They’re facing too much uncertainty at the moment.

Big Hoss

 

[Chrish]

Pharmacist here.. Retail pharmacy managers who work 40 hrs/ week can easily make 150k/ year with bonus.

So, salaries mentioned here for employed dentists seem too low. Dental school has been historically harder to get in and you guys even do procedures. I would have expected at least 200k for a dentist working 40 hours in corporate job.

 

[wannagiveup]

Pharmacist here.. Retail pharmacy managers who work 40 hrs/ week can easily make 150k/ year with bonus.

So, salaries mentioned here for employed dentists seem too low. Dental school has been historically harder to get in and you guys even do procedures. I would have expected at least 200k for a dentist working 40 hours in corporate job.

150k BASE is typical for a fresh grad at a corporate chain office working five days a week around 40h. With bonus/incentives, it will be higher. This is at the bottom of the corporate hierarchy. Once you move up and become more involved with the company, your salary goes up.

 

[MandalorianDMD]

Many, many years ago? Like 5? Is that many, many? Because that’s when I joined.

Most of the graduating residents at my peds program have had their projected daily minimums reduced significantly. One was reduced nearly $300/day. Practice owners are very cautious with daily minimums now. They’re facing too much uncertainty at the moment.

Big Hoss

Yes, I can see it was 5 years ago. That’s half a decade. Either way, I don’t buy any dentist working 8-12 hours a day pulling in $300/day. But if this dentist exists, please PM me their info. I would like to hire them in a couple years. I’ll even gladly cover their lunch (not to exceed $8) every day for their hard work.


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[Quinque]

Pharmacist here.. Retail pharmacy managers who work 40 hrs/ week can easily make 150k/ year with bonus.

So, salaries mentioned here for employed dentists seem too low. Dental school has been historically harder to get in and you guys even do procedures. I would have expected at least 200k for a dentist working 40 hours in corporate job.

interesting I guess salaries really do vary by who you ask. My friends who are pharmacist said they made 70-80k starting. So I figured low 100s seemed normal for dentist

 

[theleatherwalle]

Yes, I can see it was 5 years ago. That’s half a decade. Either way, I don’t buy any dentist working 8-12 hours a day pulling in $300/day. But if this dentist exists, please PM me their info. I would like to hire them in a couple years. I’ll even gladly cover their lunch (not to exceed $8) every day for their hard work.


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be careful what you wish for. I have 3 friends who currently out of work and would jump on that opportunity. I am sure some 800+ day guarantee jobs exist likely in Alaska or some desert. I know at least 2 classmates that constantly are looking for work since they never got speedy enough to produce at the corporate level and chose to live saturated markets earning 100k

150k base for corporate starting? maybe if your doing 50 hours a week. offers here are 100-120k and i would be curious to know what location you guys are living in.

 

[wannagiveup]

be careful what you wish for. I have 3 friends who currently out of work and would jump on that opportunity. I am sure some 800+ day guarantee jobs exist likely in Alaska or some desert. I know at least 2 classmates that constantly are looking for work since they never got speedy enough to produce at the corporate level and chose to live saturated markets earning 100k

150k base for corporate starting? maybe if your doing 50 hours a week. offers here are 100-120k and i would be curious to know what location you guys are living in.

Midwest here. The lowest guarantee I've seen here is 120k base, but 150k was more common (again, on a five-day 40h work schedule). This is for a fresh grad with no GPR/AEGD.

 

[toothexplore]

I am a 2016 grad, my first job in Milwaukee was $140k base + 29% production. When I moved to Denver, my contract (different cooperation) was 500/day guaranteed for 6 months then a tiered production (26,29,34%). Honestly at both these jobs I was earning around the same income. I was offered to come back to Milwaukee and negotiated a $210k base

 

[Chrish]

interesting I guess salaries really do vary by who you ask. My friends who are pharmacist said they made 70-80k starting. So I figured low 100s seemed normal for dentist

70-80k would be for part timers. Salaries have been going down in pharmacies due to oversaturation of pharmacy schools but if you are a retail pharmacist employed by corporate working 40 hours, you would make at least 120k and that would be on a lower side. Most would make 140k or above.

 

[Quinque]

70-80k would be for part timers. Salaries have been going down in pharmacies due to oversaturation of pharmacy schools but if you are a retail pharmacist employed by corporate working 40 hours, you would make at least 120k and that would be on a lower side. Most would make 140k or above.

I see, I think dentistry might be heading in same direction. We had 10 schools open in past 10 yrs (8 of them being private). Makes it easier for students who can't get into public schools to become dentists, but creates over saturation of dentists.

 

[Cold Front]

Many, many years ago? Like 5? Is that many, many? Because that’s when I joined.

Most of the graduating residents at my peds program have had their projected daily minimums reduced significantly. One was reduced nearly $300/day. Practice owners are very cautious with daily minimums now. They’re facing too much uncertainty at the moment.

Big Hoss

$300 a day!!!? The other $200 going to a vaccine development? lol

An Endo friend of mine in the northeast said he was on unemployment for the last 3 months and he just came back to work at his associate position, seeing 40-50% of his pre-covid cases. Sign of the times.


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[Big Time Hoosier]

Yes, I can see it was 5 years ago. That’s half a decade. Either way, I don’t buy any dentist working 8-12 hours a day pulling in $300/day. But if this dentist exists, please PM me their info. I would like to hire them in a couple years. I’ll even gladly cover their lunch (not to exceed $8) every day for their hard work.


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I didn’t say their minimum was $300/day, it was reduced $300/day. They went from near $1,300/day to $1,000/day.

Big Hoss

 

[yappy]

I didn’t say their minimum was $300/day, it was reduced $300/day. They went from near $1,300/day to $1,000/day.

Big Hoss

I want to make 1000 per day, minimum.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I want to make 1000 per day, minimum.

Become a specialist.

Big Hoss

 

[theleatherwalle]

I am a 2016 grad, my first job in Milwaukee was $140k base + 29% production. When I moved to Denver, my contract (different cooperation) was 500/day guaranteed for 6 months then a tiered production (26,29,34%). Honestly at both these jobs I was earning around the same income. I was offered to come back to Milwaukee and negotiated a $210k base

2015 grad here. my base was 120k in atlanta and i believe they offered 135 or 140k a year if you moved to savannah. I had similar 500 a day contract or 25% production. I will say that at my DSO it was basically impossible to make more than 170k given how they scheduled

 

[AONLINE]

I see, I think dentistry might be heading in same direction. We had 10 schools open in past 10 yrs (8 of them being private). Makes it easier for students who can't get into public schools to become dentists, but creates over saturation of dentists.

Yes, dentistry is saturated, but no where as bad as pharmacy. 15k pharmacy graduates enter the market every year compared to 6.5k dental graduates. It would take at least 10 years, possibly more for dentistry to reach the current state of pharmacy.

 

[LegendaryPanda]

I see, I think dentistry might be heading in same direction. We had 10 schools open in past 10 yrs (8 of them being private). Makes it easier for students who can't get into public schools to become dentists, but creates over saturation of dentists.

I’m not saying that dentists aren’t saturated but too many people fixated on the 10 schools that opened in the past decade. You need to look further back. 7+ dental schools closed 20 years ago. That dropped our yearly grad rate from 6300 in 1980 to 4500 near the 2000s. Those 10 schools that reopened just replenished the schools and added a couple more. We’ve just hit 6k grads a couple of years ago. In 40 years, we went from 6300 to 4500 now back to 6300 while the population grew 50%.

 

[Quinque]

I’m not saying that dentists aren’t saturated but too many people fixated on the 10 schools that opened in the past decade. You need to look further back. 7+ dental schools closed 20 years ago. That dropped our yearly grad rate from 6300 in 1980 to 4500 near the 2000s. Those 10 schools that reopened just replenished the schools and added a couple more. We’ve just hit 6k grads a couple of years ago. In 40 years, we went from 6300 to 4500 now back to 6300 while the population grew 50%.

I hope that the dental school mass opening crazy has stopped with the 10

 

[Cold Front]

I want to make 1000 per day, minimum.

The laws of economics dictate - if you make $1k/day, your boss/the office has to make $2k/day in return.


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[P7898]

I don't think dentistry will get as saturated compared to pharmacy. Pharmacy still has "decent' tuition costs. Dentistry on the other hand does not have decent tuition costs and will either drive many people away from the profession or bankrupt many people in the profession when they go on repay and have to pay a giant tax bomb and sell their practices.

 

[wannagiveup]

I hope that the dental school mass opening crazy has stopped with the 10

Speaking of new dental school, Texas has one that recently opened up. Woody L. Hunt School of Dental Medicine

40 seats in the inaugural class and 60 per class afterwards; 39k/yr in tuition for TX residents; CODA "initial accreditation" status

 

[LegendaryPanda]

I don't think dentistry will get as saturated compared to pharmacy. Pharmacy still has "decent' tuition costs. Dentistry on the other hand does not have decent tuition costs and will either drive many people away from the profession or bankrupt many people in the profession when they go on repay and have to pay a giant tax bomb and sell their practices.

Dentistry probably won't become pharmacy, but the truth is that it still has a huge problem that may bring dentistry to a similar path.

Dental debt is by far the biggest problem. The higher the debt rises, the less applicants would apply. Since 2004, the dental acceptance rates were ~40-45%, but these past few years, we've reached 50% and 2018 had an acceptance rate of 55%. That is unfortunate. Applicants since then decreased a little bit since then too.

If dental schools continue to receive less applicants, then dental schools could lower their standards resulting in either less competent practitioners and lower NBDE pass rates. That's exactly what's happening in pharmacy right now, 85% acceptance rate and NAPLEX pass rates dropped 15% across the board. The difference is that pharmacy is too far gone with something like 60k grads being unemployed, while dental job market is still in an okay place - it's still possible to find a job even in a saturated city.

The best solution to this would be both of these being enacted.
1) If somehow tuition dropped 50%-100% to incentivize an influx of new applicants to keep dentistry competitive.
2) The number of grads remained relatively similar for the next few years with small increases to account for population increase. Either no new schools or class sizes not being expanded much. This one is easy to control, but who knows what the ADA or dental schools will do.

 

[Quinque]

Speaking of new dental school, Texas has one that recently opened up. Woody L. Hunt School of Dental Medicine

40 seats in the inaugural class and 60 per class afterwards; 39k/yr in tuition for TX residents; CODA "initial accreditation" status

Yeah, I heard. The reasoning is that west Texas apparently has shortage of dentists (some dentist disagree). The dentists I shadowed were against a 4th TX school bc they said students will go, but then just move away from west TX and back to Dallas, Austin, etc when done anyway.

but my cousin who is applying this cycle is pretty happy that a new school opening bc means easier to get into a TX seat now with same applicant #, but more seats

 

[P7898]

Dentistry probably won't become pharmacy, but the truth is that it still has a huge problem that may bring dentistry to a similar path.

Dental debt is by far the biggest problem. The higher the debt rises, the less applicants would apply. Since 2004, the dental acceptance rates were ~40-45%, but these past few years, we've reached 50% and 2018 had an acceptance rate of 55%. That is unfortunate. Applicants since then decreased a little bit since then too.

If dental schools continue to receive less applicants, then dental schools could lower their standards resulting in either less competent practitioners and lower NBDE pass rates. That's exactly what's happening in pharmacy right now, 85% acceptance rate and NAPLEX pass rates dropped 15% across the board. The difference is that pharmacy is too far gone with something like 60k grads being unemployed, while dental job market is still in an okay place - it's still possible to find a job even in a saturated city.

The best solution to this would be both of these being enacted.
1) If somehow tuition dropped 50%-100% to incentivize an influx of new applicants to keep dentistry competitive.
2) The number of grads remained relatively similar for the next few years with small increases to account for population increase. Either no new schools or class sizes not being expanded much. This one is easy to control, but who knows what the ADA or dental schools will do.

Great response.

 

[yappy]

The laws of economics dictate - if you make $1k/day, your boss/the office has to make $2k/day in return.


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I need to become my own boss.

 

[xoltarin]

It depends where you go.

150k to 200k new grad salary right out of school in a small town in Wisconsin

100k to 120k for experienced doc in Miami (good luck finding a W2 job or full time too)

 

[monkeykey]

this is accurate.

this is sad.

 

[New_Vegas]

Dentistry probably won't become pharmacy, but the truth is that it still has a huge problem that may bring dentistry to a similar path.

Dental debt is by far the biggest problem. The higher the debt rises, the less applicants would apply. Since 2004, the dental acceptance rates were ~40-45%, but these past few years, we've reached 50% and 2018 had an acceptance rate of 55%. That is unfortunate. Applicants since then decreased a little bit since then too.

If dental schools continue to receive less applicants, then dental schools could lower their standards resulting in either less competent practitioners and lower NBDE pass rates. That's exactly what's happening in pharmacy right now, 85% acceptance rate and NAPLEX pass rates dropped 15% across the board. The difference is that pharmacy is too far gone with something like 60k grads being unemployed, while dental job market is still in an okay place - it's still possible to find a job even in a saturated city.

The best solution to this would be both of these being enacted.
1) If somehow tuition dropped 50%-100% to incentivize an influx of new applicants to keep dentistry competitive.
2) The number of grads remained relatively similar for the next few years with small increases to account for population increase. Either no new schools or class sizes not being expanded much. This one is easy to control, but who knows what the ADA or dental schools will do.

In my opinion there are just way too many dental schools and way too many students for each class. Organized dentistry (ADA, CODA, etc) have literally no regard for the future of dentistry. It's the wild west, there are no regulations whatsoever. A school could open up tomorrow, charge $200,000 per year in tuition, have 500 seats per class.. and as long as it met the BS requirements for accreditation, they would have the green light. For one, there needs to be a limit on how many dentists should graduate every year, and there should be a limit on their tuition rates.
If I were in charge, I would freeze the opening of any new school. Current schools would be forced to limit their class size by 25%. A maximum limit of $50,000 per year in tuition and fees would be installed. Don't meet those requirements? Accreditation revoked. Can't survive under those circumstances? Then close your doors because this current trend of greedy and predatory schools needs to end.
Having more dentists doesn't lead to greater access to care in rural areas, it doesn't lead to lower costs, it doesn't lead to a better patient experience. Nobody benefits except dental schools and the dental organizations who can collect more $$.

 

[lwergod]

In my opinion there are just way too many dental schools and way too many students for each class. Organized dentistry (ADA, CODA, etc) have literally no regard for the future of dentistry. It's the wild west, there are no regulations whatsoever. A school could open up tomorrow, charge $200,000 per year in tuition, have 500 seats per class.. and as long as it met the BS requirements for accreditation, they would have the green light. For one, there needs to be a limit on how many dentists should graduate every year, and there should be a limit on their tuition rates.
If I were in charge, I would freeze the opening of any new school. Current schools would be forced to limit their class size by 25%. A maximum limit of $50,000 per year in tuition and fees would be installed. Don't meet those requirements? Accreditation revoked. Can't survive under those circumstances? Then close your doors because this current trend of greedy and predatory schools needs to end.
Having more dentists doesn't lead to greater access to care in rural areas, it doesn't lead to lower costs, it doesn't lead to a better patient experience. Nobody benefits except dental schools and the dental organizations who can collect more $$.

and these issues all go back to the bubble created by federal student loans

 

[Cold Front]

A maximum limit of $50,000 per year in tuition and fees would be installed. Don't meet those requirements? Accreditation revoked.

Erm... The U.S. economic system of free enterprise operates according to five main principles: the freedom to choose a businesses, the right to private property, the profit motive, competition, and consumer sovereignty. So you can’t discriminate a private business/school based on what they charge, but you (as a student) can choose not to go to an expensive dental school. Same reason why a blue collar consumers don’t shop from Armani, Gucci, Versace, Parada, D&G, et al retail stores and choose to shop at Old Navy, Target, Walmart, etc. A private business has the right to have a business license and sell products to their target consumers. Same thing with dental schools, the certification guidelines should never be based on the cost of attendance.

 

[New_Vegas]

Erm... The U.S. economic system of free enterprise operates according to five main principles: the freedom to choose a businesses, the right to private property, the profit motive, competition, and consumer sovereignty.

And it's up to the government to protect and defend it's people. If you think colleges and universities have the right to do whatever they want, then why don't you read up on thousands of laws and regulations put on people Compliance Matrix - Higher Education Compliance Alliance. I think it's about time the government steps in and draws the line on how bad it can screw students over.

A private business has the right to have a business license and sell products to their target consumers. Same thing with dental schools, the certification guidelines should never be based on the cost of attendance.

Except most colleges aren't "private businesses" because they are funded with state and federal dollars.

So you can’t discriminate a private business/school based on what they charge, but you (as a student) can choose not to go to an expensive dental school.

Easy for you to wag the cane when you didn't have to go through this era of greedy schools. And guess what? I am going to a "cheap school". But I still care about those who are being exploited by dishonest institutions. It affects you. The number of graduating dentists affects you. As a taxpayer it affects you when you have to absorb the debt these students can't pay off.

However, often older dentists are just as anxious as anyone to ruin this profession. More graduating dentists means a sellers market when you want to sell your practice and retire. And higher debt of graduating students means more corporate competition to buy the practice as well.

 

[deleted903013]

And it's up to the government to protect and defend it's people. If you think colleges and universities have the right to do whatever they want, then why don't you read up on thousands of laws and regulations put on people Compliance Matrix - Higher Education Compliance Alliance. I think it's about time the government steps in and draws the line on how bad it can screw students over.


Except most colleges aren't "private businesses" because they are funded with state and federal dollars.


Easy for you to wag the cane when you didn't have to go through this era of greedy schools. And guess what? I am going to a "cheap school". But I still care about those who are being exploited by dishonest institutions. It affects you. The number of graduating dentists affects you. As a taxpayer it affects you when you have to absorb the debt these students can't pay off.

However, often older dentists are just as anxious as anyone to ruin this profession. More graduating dentists means a sellers market when you want to sell your practice and retire. And higher debt of graduating students means more corporate competition to buy the practice as well.

Another solution may be getting the government out of guaranteeing student loans no matter what. Their guaranteed loans allowed for this mess.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Another solution may be getting the government out of guaranteeing student loans no matter what. Their guaranteed loans allowed for this mess.

Big Hoss

 

[deleted903013]

Big Hoss

Big Hoss: 1
Big Government: 0

 

[Cold Front]

And it's up to the government to protect and defend it's people. If you think colleges and universities have the right to do whatever they want, then why don't you read up on thousands of laws and regulations put on people Compliance Matrix - Higher Education Compliance Alliance. I think it's about time the government steps in and draws the line on how bad it can screw students over.

Wait.., I’m sure you understand the concept of supply and demand, no? No applicant get forced to apply to a dental school, regardless of the cost. Just like you walk down a street or inside a mall and you have the freedom to not purchase anything from any given store. Complaining about the cost of dental school in your narrative is ignoring the fact you or anyone else doesn’t have to go to dental school. If no one applied to dental schools, most dental schools would close in a heart beat. Again, supply and demand. As long as there is demand, the schools are pleased to do anything they want. Student don’t like it? Let them look for another profession.

Except most colleges aren't "private businesses" because they are funded with state and federal dollars.

State schools are not exactly state schools. Yes, they state get subsidies with tuition and fees discounts for the state residents, but what happens when those subsidies decline or go away all together? - and they have been for the past decade or for most state schools. Schools have to make up the budget shortfalls from their students - hence tuition is rising sharply in state schools too. Again, the money has to come from somewhere, and state institutions can’t be forced to not raise tuition if the state cuts their funding. Unless state funding comes back, which I very much doubt will for the next 5-10 years due to covid19 recession, expect state schools to increase their tuition at the same rate as private schools.

Easy for you to wag the cane when you didn't have to go through this era of greedy schools.

It’s all relative. I graduated in 2010 with $280k. It was equivalent to graduating with $500-600k in student loans today. You have no reference point in time and economics in your argument. But, ok!.

 

[New_Vegas]

It’s all relative. I graduated in 2010 with $280k. It was equivalent to graduating with $500-600k in student loans today. You have no reference point in time and economics in your argument. But, ok!.

Lol are you sure about that buddy? Sure looks to me that $280,000 in 2010 is worth closer to $339,000 to me today.

Sources:

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Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value From 1913-2024

Easily calculate how the buying power of the U.S. dollar has changed from 1913 to 2024. Get inflation rates and U.S. inflation news.

www.usinflationcalculator.com

Inflation Calculator 2024 - Calculate U.S. Inflation by Year

SmartAsset's inflation calculator can help you determine how inflation affects the value of your current funds. Check it out here.

smartasset.com

 

[Cold Front]

Lol are you sure about that buddy? Sure looks to me that $280,000 in 2010 is worth closer to $339,000 to me today.

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Sources:

CPI Inflation Calculator

www.bls.gov

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value From 1913-2024

Easily calculate how the buying power of the U.S. dollar has changed from 1913 to 2024. Get inflation rates and U.S. inflation news.

www.usinflationcalculator.com

Inflation Calculator 2024 - Calculate U.S. Inflation by Year

SmartAsset's inflation calculator can help you determine how inflation affects the value of your current funds. Check it out here.

smartasset.com

The school I attended charged 50% less a decade ago. Tuition was about $40-45k a year, now it’s about $90k a year. That’s the case for majority of schools, the debt pretty much doubled - the interest rate on the current cost of attendance added even more debt.

Your calculators are not based on dental school cost over the past decade. We should have these discussions after you finish dental school, to see it for yourself.

 

[New_Vegas]

The school I attended charged 50% less a decade ago. Tuition was about $40-45k a year, now it’s about $90k a year. That’s the case for majority of schools, the debt pretty much doubled - the interest rate on the current cost of attendance added even more debt.

Your calculators are not based on dental school cost over the past decade. We should have these discussions after you finish dental school, to see it for yourself.

So you are saying I'm right then? You didn't have to live through the era of greedy and exploitative schools. Pretty selfish of you to not care about others going through school now just because you are done with it.

 

[Cold Front]

So you are saying I'm right then? You didn't have to live through the era of greedy and exploitative schools. Pretty selfish of you to not care about others going through school now just because you are done with it.

Haha. I see what you did there. Dragging me into your personal crusade against expensive dental schools.

In all honesty, I’m not even sure why you are trainspotting me on this topic. I have always shared the exact same views about the future of dentistry and expensive dental schools for the last decade and half on these forums. You dedicated 5 of your 27 posts on your account to criticize me on an issue that I advise on all the time?. What is there to care... for something no one has control of other than the schools that get their students into a lot of debt? All pre-dents are constantly warned on these boards by many dentists (including me) to not apply to expensive schools... and you think I’m doing the exact opposite? We are both victims of the same system, but at a different place and a different time.