Hiding interest in plastics...

[JonBovi]

Does anyone think that if someone is applying for general surgery residency that they should hide their interest in possibly pursuing PRS after?
(i.e. no mention in personal statement)

What about once you are in residency, do you still have to hide that interest?

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[AsklepiosMD]

I have always wondered that, and have been told on many occasions, that its a must.

My perception from what i have been told is, General surgeons look down on it, like its less noble a field. I definitely think that is due to the whole Dr.90210 fiasco.

Its sad, I genuinely love the speciality. I would like to specialise in breast reconstruction postmastectomy, or cleftlips/palets

Most people giving plastics a negative rep, are NOT even actual board certified plastic surgeons. I think if they made it so only plastic surgeons could perform aesthetic procedures, the field (aesthetic portion) would regain any respect its lost, as well patients would be much safer.
Ive seen 3 specials on the dangers of plastic surgery this month on various different television networks.

Derms and Plastics are really the only people who should be doing botox, i understand its just an injection, but you are responsible for how someones face is going to look for 3-6mnths.
It definetly takes more than a weekend course to understand, aesthetic principles of the face. (sorry for the tangent)


Anyways back to your original question, I was told not to mention it while applying. I am unsure of what the answer is for once you are already in a general surgery residency.

Maybe someone else will enlighten us

 

[Moravian]

I was told not to mention it while applying. I am unsure of what the answer is for once you are already in a general surgery residency. Maybe someone else will enlighten us

Here is one person's opinion:

I think this whole general surgery vs. plastic surgery is multifactorial and is NOT as big an issue as some would make it. Sure, Dr. Rey didn't do us any favors by having a TV show except in that it brought some discussion about the field to the public about qualification, certification, etc. A much bigger issue is that more than a few general surgeons really don't have much of an idea of what plastic surgeons do. And then there's the fact that GS has been losing a lot of their cases to other specialties, taking a hit in reimbursements (like all of us who take insurance plans) so there's is some jealousy of those who do some injections and get paid cash. Just about every specialty thinks they work harder than the others and is not paid as much.

I did a general surgery residency as well and was very up front about my interest. I think this was important because your going to need support in the form of letters and possibly phone calls from the plastic surgery people. And I did this at a time where you could leave a program to go to another for plastics if a spot opened up (so there was that added tension). That's not an option now unless the spot becomes available where you are currently doing your general residency.

My goal during GS was to be the best resident they ever had. While I may not have achieved that particular benchmark, my attendings knew I worked harder than every one else, was always prepared for cases, scored very well on the inservice, took very good care of their patients, was reliable and responsible and ALWAYS answered my pager. If you can do that, no one will care what you want to do.

As an aside, anyone really can inject the face with botox. Nurses are trained to do it. It's not rocket science. And remember, this is just one opinion.

Best,

--Moravian

p.s. If you want to fix cleft palates, you should learn first how to spell it

 

[Winged Scapula]

Moravian had the right attitude.

Coming from a program where CT was king and PRS was frowned upon, it was very clear that if you expressed an interest in PRS, the teaching interest dwindled. Fair or not, it was real and the PRS residents "warned" us not to talk about our interest (especially as a junior resident).

Therefore, in *some* programs, I think the best thing to do is to work hard, score well and show an interest in all surgical specialties - after all, you're there to learn GS. At some point, once you've already proven yourself, then you can be more open.

If you are applying for Integrated and GS, then yes I would not be so open about that; GS is sensitive about being "Plan B".

 

[AsklepiosMD]

Here is one person's opinion:
p.s. If you want to fix cleft palates, you should learn first how to spell it

My bad, totally should have caught that lol

I was just stating what I was told by more than 2 attendings.

I'm going to say winged scapula's approach is the safe route.

During my core surgery elective, when I told the GS I was interested in PRS. He completely lost interest in teaching me, and on one instance when I failed to answer a question while being pimped, said to me "maybe you would have answered that if you werent so interested in pursuing "hair dressing" "

During electives, I have noticed,I usually have to work twice as hard, to prove i know my stuff, to regain the respect of attendings once I express my interest in PRS.

Also every single attending who ive discussed career prospects with has said. "Even if you arnt planning to be the next Dr.90210......."
So he defenitly has impacted the stigma that goes along with PRS more than most people realize.

On the issue of anyone can be trained to do botox. I agree anyone can be trained. But its the quality i was referring too

I dont personally get botox( yet)lol, but one of my close friend does. She always takes me along cause she knows i love checking out the different practices. I can honestly say over the years there is definetly a difference in the quality of the botox between different practitioners.
The board certified plastic surgeon and the CT surgeon were by far the best, a GP screwed up big time, leaving her with lopsided eyebrows( who had 10 additional years of experience in the asthetic business than the the CT or PRS), the dentist and nurses who did botox, were always pushing additional procedures.

Maybe im bias, but I appreciated the higher level of integrity that was
demonstrated by the Surgeons, less likely to push additional procedures, and more honest about the necessity of certain procedures.
(those were just my personal experiences)

Also I think i was more sensitive & pissed off about the issue yesterday, cause i had to put up with some slacker brag during clinic about, how they were going to take a weekend course and work under a family physician to do botox, for cash on the side. ( i just think thats outrageous)

I would love if i ended up in a program like Moravian with GS attendings more open about pursuing PRS, but who knows if ill end up being that lucky

 

[JackADeli]

yeh, I steared away from PRS cause I never enjoyed repairing cleft pilates

 

[AsklepiosMD]

Uber mature

 

[JackADeli]

yeh, I steared away from PRS cause I never enjoyed repairing cleft pilates

Uber mature

it's called humor.... it goes a long way if you are intending a difficult surgical path in your future. Also, a healthy sense of humor can be thought of by some as a mark of maturity.

 

[WentForitandWon]

USCF has a great plastics program and they place A LOT of their Grads into plastics fellowships.

 

[nonbilious]

I say if you love it, love it and don't be afraid.

If you're excited about what you want and are in it for the right reason nothing is more infectious.

Just work hard and learn something everyday, whether its plastics related or not, and be excited for that opportunity.... life in day tight compartments.

Besides, from my limited few weeks, I would say being a junior is about being a doctor and has little to do with your ultimate interest.

While i'm not interested in plastics I can't imagine hiding my interests or pretending to want something else.... thats just depressing.

 

[PharmaTope]

My bad, totally should have caught that lol

I was just stating what I was told by more than 2 attendings.

I'm going to say winged scapula's approach is the safe route.

During my core surgery elective, when I told the GS I was interested in PRS. He completely lost interest in teaching me, and on one instance when I failed to answer a question while being pimped, said to me "maybe you would have answered that if you werent so interested in pursuing "hair dressing" "

During electives, I have noticed,I usually have to work twice as hard, to prove i know my stuff, to regain the respect of attendings once I express my interest in PRS.

Also every single attending who ive discussed career prospects with has said. "Even if you arnt planning to be the next Dr.90210......."
So he defenitly has impacted the stigma that goes along with PRS more than most people realize.

On the issue of anyone can be trained to do botox. I agree anyone can be trained. But its the quality i was referring too

I dont personally get botox( yet)lol, but one of my close friend does. She always takes me along cause she knows i love checking out the different practices. I can honestly say over the years there is definetly a difference in the quality of the botox between different practitioners.
The board certified plastic surgeon and the CT surgeon were by far the best, a GP screwed up big time, leaving her with lopsided eyebrows( who had 10 additional years of experience in the asthetic business than the the CT or PRS), the dentist and nurses who did botox, were always pushing additional procedures.

Maybe im bias, but I appreciated the higher level of integrity that was
demonstrated by the Surgeons, less likely to push additional procedures, and more honest about the necessity of certain procedures.
(those were just my personal experiences)Also I think i was more sensitive & pissed off about the issue yesterday, cause i had to put up with some slacker brag during clinic about, how they were going to take a weekend course and work under a family physician to do botox, for cash on the side. ( i just think thats outrageous)

I would love if i ended up in a program like Moravian with GS attendings more open about pursuing PRS, but who knows if ill end up being that lucky

dentist doing cosmetic botox???? seriously????

 

[Shibumi]

I have completed a gen surg residency prior to my plastics training and looking back, I would not trade my gen surg experience for anything. Having said that, if you have your mind dead set on PRS, why not apply to the integrated programs?

Just to echo what has been said, most general surgeons are pretty ignorant about our specialty. I do think that with time, this will change, especially that PRS as a specialty has been taking nothing but the best general surgery residents for the past 10 years.

 

[JackADeli]

...Just to echo what has been said, most general surgeons are pretty ignorant about our specialty...

I guess it depends on where you are. Based on my experience, I find this generalization hard to believe. We always had a complete cadre of PRS folks within the division of surgery (and every surgery division I have seen since). They did everything from skin cancer, hand surgery, free-flaps, burns, clefts, genital procedures, etc... All general surgery residents rotated on the service and were exposed to the broad variety and complexity. Everyone graduating would have a good understanding unless their eyes were closed for 5+ years. So, I just don't see that generalization being anywhere near acurate.... but it does call up memories of a soft violin tune

 

[Moravian]

I guess it depends on where you are. Based on my experience, I find this generalization hard to believe.

Believe it. It's even worse for pediatric plastics.

--M

 

[Shibumi]

Seems like the term "ignorant" was a bit harsh, and it got ppl upset. Maybe "lack of in-depth" understanding" is more appropriate?

I completed a gen surg residency and I had a month of plastic surgery rotation out of 5 years. And my experience is not unique. I am not aware of any gen surg residency that exposes their residents to more than a month of PRS. Maybe I am a slow learner, but I honestly cannot say that I got a "good understanding" of a specialty in merely a month.

Many of us in PRS were pleasantly surprised by the breadth of our specialty when we started our PRS training, and humbled by the realization that we actually knew very little about the specialty, despite a rigorous gen surg training.

 

[JackADeli]

...Maybe "lack of in-depth" understanding" is more appropriate?

I completed a gen surg residency and I had a month of plastic surgery rotation out of 5 years. And my experience is not unique. I am not aware of any gen surg residency that exposes their residents to more than a month of PRS. Maybe I am a slow learner, but I honestly cannot say that I got a "good understanding" of a specialty in merely a month.

Many of us in PRS were pleasantly surprised by the breadth of our specialty when we started our PRS training, and humbled by the realization that we actually knew very little about the specialty, despite a rigorous gen surg training.

That entire line of thought is troubling. We did not spend 6 months to a year on PRS either. However, we rotated on the service and cared for the broad depth of the practice. When off the service, someone obviously covered the service. It is sad for someone to choose a specialty as ignorant or ill informed as you suggest you were and only discovering the true extent of the profession once you entered the fellowship? So, were you just seeking a breast augmentation program and suddenly and pleasantly surprised (sarcasm/rhetorical).

You don't need to be doing longterm rotations to appreciate the extent of services a specialty provides. Burns, clefts, skin cancer, scar revisions, cosmetics, flaps, hand injuries, trauma consults, and etc.... occur all year long accross this country. To spend five years at a program and be unaware of this requires some effort IMHO.

 

[Mohab]

dentist doing cosmetic botox???? seriously????

I find it kinda funny that you're more outraged that a dentist would do such a procedure than a nurse...