Help me help someone with ivermectin

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Traffic accidents aren't contagious.
I'm 4 times less likely to die from Covid than from a car accident f that noise
Okay...what "treatment" is more effective in preventing hospitalization and/or death than getting the vaccine? I'll start; it's not ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine.
For "high risk" people vaccinate 100% no problem here but there is absolutely no reason to vaccinate healthy young individuals.
If your vaccine were so great you wouldn't try to push it on everybody. I would not hesitate one second to bareback a polio patient.
I've had 2 shots and got covid < than 6 months later, where do we stop? Vaccines q3months til infinity?

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The article states 830 patients in the icu out of 2000+ beds... peak occupancy was something like 1100 icu patients.
To my knowledge the only delay of care have been self imposed by politicians acting like they are doing something not by lack of capacity.
Both of my in laws have been diagnosed with cancer right in the middle of the pandemic and have not suffered from delays in their care.
A lot of people have been scared out of seeking care and going to the hospital .
And a lot of people that were too scared to go to the doctor during the pandemic now have cancer at more advanced stages because they were too afraid to get checked or screened.

I've got a friend that just died from prostate cancer who had a normal PSA less than 3 years ago. He didn't get his annual check during the pandemic, and when checked in mid 2021 already had stage 4 cancer. Yes, I realize this is anecdotal evidence, but it's at least as compelling as some of the stuff posted in this thread.
 
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I'm 4 times less likely to die from Covid than from a car accident f that noise

For "high risk" people vaccinate 100% no problem here but there is absolutely no reason to vaccinate healthy young individuals.
If your vaccine were so great you wouldn't try to push it on everybody. I would not hesitate one second to bareback a polio patient.
I've had 2 shots and got covid < than 6 months later, where do we stop? Vaccines q3months til infinity?

I don't care how more likely you are to die in a car accident, because the car accident fatality comparison isn't at all analogous.
 
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I'm 4 times less likely to die from Covid than from a car accident f that noise

For "high risk" people vaccinate 100% no problem here but there is absolutely no reason to vaccinate healthy young individuals.
If your vaccine were so great you wouldn't try to push it on everybody. I would not hesitate one second to bareback a polio patient.
I've had 2 shots and got covid < than 6 months later, where do we stop? Vaccines q3months til infinity?
I’m young and healthy, I will eventually have Covid. Even in my young healthy age group, the risk of the vaccine, particularly Pfizer is far lower than the risk of severe or long lasting disease from COVID. Block out the noise and the signal is clear: risks vs benefits.
 
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I know for those posting in here on the side of antivax this won’t mean anything. But in case anyone is reading this and thinking the ‘I’m young and healthy’ argument makes sense read the above.

These cases are occurring in your age group and aren’t captured by a mortality statistic. We don’t know how many people have pasc because it doesn’t even have a consensus definition at this point. I’ve had nurses come up to me in the icu (I gave a presentation on this to them as per of an educational series) in confidence and tell me they can’t chain words or thoughts together all the time but are afraid to tell anyone out of fear of retaliation by admin or worse stigma from others In Healthcare. They told me they get weird looks from other providers like they don’t know what they are doing when it is more of a word finding difficulty than an issue with knowing what to do. And I am not kidding at how many it had been, most of them were so happy to know they weren’t crazy and that there might be an explanation for what is wrong with them. I’m not sure if pasc will be a major long term problem but for the people it hits it sure as hell is.
 
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I know for those posting in here on the side of antivax this won’t mean anything. But in case anyone is reading this and thinking the ‘I’m young and healthy’ argument makes sense read the above.

These cases are occurring in your age group and aren’t captured by a mortality statistic. We don’t know how many people have pasc because it doesn’t even have a consensus definition at this point. I’ve had nurses come up to me in the icu (I gave a presentation on this to them as per of an educational series) in confidence and tell me they can’t chain words or thoughts together all the time but are afraid to tell anyone out of fear of retaliation by admin or worse stigma from others In Healthcare. They told me they get weird looks from other providers like they don’t know what they are doing when it is more of a word finding difficulty than an issue with knowing what to do. And I am not kidding at how many it had been, most of them were so happy to know they weren’t crazy and that there might be an explanation for what is wrong with them. I’m not sure if pasc will be a major long term problem but for the people it hits it sure as hell is.
From the papers I've read on long COVID, it occurs in patients who had MILD COVID19 anywhere from 10-50% of the time, with 30% being the ballpark consensus. And yes, they are mostly younger (< 50) patients.
 
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Would you qualify Dr Robert Malone as an "antivaxxer"?
Close enough

"
Malone received criticism for propagating COVID-19 misinformation, including making unsupported claims about the toxicity of spike proteins generated by some COVID-19 vaccines;[2][17][4][29] using interviews on mass media to popularize medication with ivermectin;[30] and tweeting a study by others questioning vaccine safety that was later retracted.[2] He said that LinkedIn temporarily suspended his account over a post stating that the Chairman of the Thomson Reuters Foundation was also a board member at Pfizer, and other posts questioning the efficacy of some COVID-19 vaccines.[31][32] Malone has also claimed that the Pfizer–BioNTech and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines could worsen COVID-19 infections.[1]

With another researcher, Malone successfully proposed to the publishers of Frontiers in Pharmacology a special issue featuring early observational studies on existing medication used in the treatment of COVID-19, for which they recruited other guest editors, contributors, and reviewers. The journal rejected two of the papers selected: one on famotidine co-authored by Malone and another submitted by physician Pierre Kory on the use of ivermectin.[28] The publisher rejected the ivermectin paper due to what it stated were "a series of strong, unsupported claims" which they determined did "not offer an objective nor balanced scientific contribution."[28] Malone and most other guest editors resigned in protest in April 2021, and the special issue has been pulled from the journal's website.[28]

Malone has also been criticized for falsely claiming that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) had not granted full approval to the Pfizer vaccine in August 2021.[33]

On December 29, 2021, Twitter permanently suspended Malone from its platform, citing "repeated violations of our COVID-19 misinformation policy".[34"
 
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Would you qualify Dr Robert Malone as an "antivaxxer"?
You are obviously referencing a (thoughtful) 3 hour Joe Rogan podcast from a few days ago and the only response is a cut and paste from Wikipedia and a link to an old Atlantic hit piece 🤣.
 
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You are obviously referencing a (thoughtful) 3 hour Joe Rogan podcast from a few days ago and the only response is a cut and paste from Wikipedia and a link to an old Atlantic hit piece 🤣.


Okay, for those of us who don’t have 3 hrs to listen to a Joe Rogan podcast, what are your thoughts on Dr. Malone?
 
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Have you read this garbage?
Yes.

It obviously goes against what you believe in. And let’s just put it out there, you’re against mandatory vaccines and I am not.

I think it’s unconscionable so many people died. If mRNA vaccine doesn’t work, then get J&J, get the Indian one, get the Russian one. Are all of them not good enough? Is COVID not real? Is natural immunity better, because it’s natural?
 
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Yes.

It obviously goes against what you believe in. And let’s just put it out there, you’re against mandatory vaccines and I am not.

I think it’s unconscionable so many people died. If mRNA vaccine doesn’t work, then get J&J, get the Indian one, get the Russian one. Are all of them not good enough? Is COVID not real? Is natural immunity better, because it’s natural?
It doesn't go against anything:the base of his argument is since he's been deplatformed he's obviously a bad guy.
 
Yes.

It obviously goes against what you believe in. And let’s just put it out there, you’re against mandatory vaccines and I am not.

I think it’s unconscionable so many people died. If mRNA vaccine doesn’t work, then get J&J, get the Indian one, get the Russian one. Are all of them not good enough? Is COVID not real? Is natural immunity better, because it’s natural?
There is no reasoning with him. Belgium had one of the worst covid death rates and continues to have significant problems...and he still goes on and on with this quasi-antivaxx concern trolling bullsht.
 
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There is no reasoning with him. Belgium had one of the worst covid death rates and continues to have significant problems...and he still goes on and on with this quasi-antivaxx concern trolling bullsht.
Of course we have, the system financially rewards covid deaths how could it be otherwise. 28k in 2 years is not insignificant but not overwhelming either.
And still only about 150 deaths for the under age 45 category in 2 years!
So i've been upgraded to "quasi" you are fine tuning your name calling.
 
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Of course we have, the system financially rewards covid deaths how could it be otherwise. 28k in 2 years is not insignificant but not overwhelming either.
And still only about 150 deaths for the under age 45 category in 2 years!
So i've been upgraded to "quasi" you are fine tuning your name calling.
Ah yes, as I expected, conspiracies about profit incentives and more downplaying of how bad Belgium's numbers were and are.

It's not name calling. You've done nothing but try to purvey misinformation and concern troll about covid and the vaccine since the pandemic began.
 
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You are obviously referencing a (thoughtful) 3 hour Joe Rogan podcast from a few days ago and the only response is a cut and paste from Wikipedia and a link to an old Atlantic hit piece 🤣.

Do you have any useful data to bring to the table, or are you just going to reference Joe Rogan and/or other non-scientists?
 
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Of course we have, the system financially rewards covid deaths how could it be otherwise. 28k in 2 years is not insignificant but not overwhelming either.
And still only about 150 deaths for the under age 45 category in 2 years!
So i've been upgraded to "quasi" you are fine tuning your name calling.

The "system" doesn't need to "reward" anything; the "powers that be" aren't the ones advocating for the pandemic to continue.
 
Do you have any useful data to bring to the table, or are you just going to reference Joe Rogan and/or other non-scientists?
So Robert Malone MD is a non-scientist now because you believe the interviewer (Joe Rogan on the Joe Rogan Experience) is beneath you?
I guess you and the woke crew are more qualified than Malone? Please, share your credentials.
Anyone who wants to form their own opinion should listen, whether they agree or not.
 
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I got to thinking this morning. For those of you who is not against vaccine, but wants people to do their “own research”. Or those who believe in natural immunity. Or only the vulnerable (old, sick, immunocompromised) patient should be vaccinated…..


Just bottom line it for me. Explain to me like I’m five. How do you see this pandemic will end? Are you okay with beds occupied with non-vaccinated patients? Do you support if not vaccinated, then you don’t get a bed at the hospital? Let it burn out by itself? Survival the fittest? Just help me to even understand a bit, what do you really believe in? Or we’re just arguing for the sake or arguing?

It’s spreading like wide fire here, about 15% of our physicians had it within the last two weeks. All are three shotters. But is that the reason not to get vaccinated? **** NO. It’s the reason why I blame the anti-vaxxer even more. This should/could have ended six months ago, when the vaccine became wildly available. Or when delta hit. Instead we’re looking at 10x of the positivity rate in FL. And talking about the fourth shot for people who are “team players” in “developed” countries. Shame on you.
 
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Explain to me like I’m five. How do you see this pandemic will end? I don't know it could get worse it could get better it could evolve like a more common cold corona virus (which seems to be the case with Omicron it could disappear completly)

Are you okay with beds occupied with non-vaccinated patients? Yes, until now no national saturation have been observed at least in Europe

Do you support if not vaccinated, then you don’t get a bed at the hospital? I agree with lower priority for beds if triage is needed for at risk individuals who have not been vaccinated

Let it burn out by itself? yes

Survival the fittest? In a sens yes
The problem with your premise is that you firmly believe that if everybody was vaccinated the disease would disappear which the data does not support.
 
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The "system" doesn't need to "reward" anything; the "powers that be" aren't the ones advocating for the pandemic to continue.
What?
The reporting of death is skewed towards declaring deaths as Covid deaths (even in patients with terminal illnesses) because there is a financial incentive for the hospital to do so. I have seen with my own eye how covid icu beds were made in a corner of a disused pacu which had no remote possibility of being used as real icu beds just for financing purposes.
 
It’s spreading like wide fire here, about 15% of our physicians had it within the last two weeks. All are three shotters. But is that the reason not to get vaccinated? **** NO. It’s the reason why I blame the anti-vaxxer even more.
Really??!! This is crazy, you are putting the blame for people getting Covid after 3 vaccines on the unvaccinated and not on the inefficacy of the vaccine??!
 
What?
The reporting of death is skewed towards declaring deaths as Covid deaths (even in patients with terminal illnesses) because there is a financial incentive for the hospital to do so. I have seen with my own eye how covid icu beds were made in a corner of a disused pacu which had no remote possibility of being used as real icu beds just for financing purposes.

What's the incentive for the hospital to keep patients languishing in the ICU longer than many ICU patients would traditionally turn over and be discharged?
 
So Robert Malone MD is a non-scientist now because you believe the interviewer (Joe Rogan on the Joe Rogan Experience) is beneath you?
I guess you and the woke crew are more qualified than Malone? Please, share your credentials.
Anyone who wants to form their own opinion should listen, whether they agree or not.

An opinion is just that, an opinion. Shouting it louder and longer doesn't make it more factual. That doesn't make them beneath me, that makes it not factual.

My credentials qualify me to have a better informed opinion than Joe Rogan, I'll leave it at that.
 
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Ah yes, as I expected, conspiracies about profit incentives and more downplaying of how bad Belgium's numbers were and are.

It's not name calling. You've done nothing but try to purvey misinformation and concern troll about covid and the vaccine since the pandemic began.
Then tell me again why you would like healthy people under 45 to get 3 shots of the vaccine?
 
Really??!! This is crazy, you are putting the blame for people getting Covid after 3 vaccines on the unvaccinated and not on the inefficacy of the vaccine??!
Legit question—do you believe in evolution? Do you understand how evolution works for viruses?
 
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All I know is that our ed is just saturated in covid. Thanks for nothing you ******* antivaxers, stay home.
 
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Then tell me again why you would like healthy people under 45 to get 3 shots of the vaccine?
You've already been told 50 times the numerous reasons why even the "young and healthy" crowd should be vaccinated. I doubt time number 51 is going to change your stance.

Because your stance is based on an irrational faith-like belief that a virus which has shutdown 1st-world countries 4 times and killed millions of people is...somehow banal- and everyone else back here in the reality-based world is an idiot for thinking vaccine uptake should be universal.
 
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Ah yes, as I expected, conspiracies about profit incentives and more downplaying of how bad Belgium's numbers were and are.
Is it truly conspiratorial to think that a "health" care system, having already largely devolved into mere symptom/disease management via misaligned incentives, could now be encouraging behaviors that obfuscate the data through those same misaligned incentives?
 
Is it truly conspiratorial to think that a "health" care system, having already largely devolved into mere symptom/disease management via misaligned incentives, could now be encouraging behaviors that obfuscate the data through those same misaligned incentives?

For what gain, exactly? Shutting down all elective procedures (the real money-earners, let's be real) due to hospital overcrowding so that the hospital can earn a few extra dollars for saying a patient has COVID?
 
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You've already been told 50 times the numerous reasons why even the "young and healthy" crowd should be vaccinated. I doubt time number 51 is going to change your stance.
If you had a good argument it would.. but you don't
 
For what gain, exactly? Shutting down all elective procedures (the real money-earners, let's be real) due to hospital overcrowding so that the hospital can earn a few extra dollars for saying a patient has COVID?
At no point did I suggest any of this was intentional. It is merely the result of one bad decision (maybe even well intentioned) after another. Again, this needed (needs) to be addressed with a scalpel and not a sledgehammer, but the "mandate/lockdown" camp's condescending view of patients (and the populace) is part of this disease. Here is an explanation for you

 
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If you had a good argument it would.. but you don't
Lol, if only we all could be as persuasive as you with your "ignore what the Belgian press, health system, Prime Minister, and 99.99% of doctors and scientists are saying cause I, internet poster dhb, proclaim COVID ain't that bad ergo don't vaxx everyone " line
 
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I got to thinking this morning. For those of you who is not against vaccine, but wants people to do their “own research”. Or those who believe in natural immunity. Or only the vulnerable (old, sick, immunocompromised) patient should be vaccinated…..


Just bottom line it for me. Explain to me like I’m five. How do you see this pandemic will end? Are you okay with beds occupied with non-vaccinated patients? Do you support if not vaccinated, then you don’t get a bed at the hospital? Let it burn out by itself? Survival the fittest? Just help me to even understand a bit, what do you really believe in? Or we’re just arguing for the sake or arguing?

It’s spreading like wide fire here, about 15% of our physicians had it within the last two weeks. All are three shotters. But is that the reason not to get vaccinated? **** NO. It’s the reason why I blame the anti-vaxxer even more. This should/could have ended six months ago, when the vaccine became wildly available. Or when delta hit. Instead we’re looking at 10x of the positivity rate in FL. And talking about the fourth shot for people who are “team players” in “developed” countries. Shame on you.
Pandemic ends when it is accepted that COViD is now endemic. The vaccine works to prevent serious illness and so does survival from a natural infection. I hope we all agree that people are still getting COVID even when they have been vaccinated 3x and had a previous infection which means a silver bullet doesn’t exist and we should be increasing our focus on therapeutics and not hoping for cures that don’t exist.
 
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The focus should be on getting everyone vaxxed and boosted since the preliminary data indicates a booster is 80-85% effective at preventing severe disease and hospitalization.
 
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a booster is 80-85% effective at preventing severe disease and hospitalization.
In people who were at risk for severe disease.
Side effects of vaccines for healthy people under 45 are probably > to benefits
 
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In people who were at risk for severe disease.
Side effects of vaccines for healthy people under 45 are probably > to benefits
Not to mention many (most?) young have natural immunity (superior! and some have it without even knowing it) which actually INCREASES their risk of vaccine side effects FURTHER!
 
In people who were at risk for severe disease.
Side effects of vaccines for healthy people under 45 are probably > to benefits
Wrong.

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And this doesn't even take into account all the younger folks with mild or moderate disease who have long covid.
 
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