Having a kid

[Teufelhunden]

Global fertility rates on the decline...I stand corrected....y'all should get off this forum and get back to your spawning duties!

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[Smilemaker100]

My goal in life is not to achieve selflessness. I am, in fact, very selfish and am not ashamed of it (read Atlas Shrugged).

What is so wrong with indentifying the things that will make me happy, and pursuing them? If having children is what makes you happy, them by all means...spawn like salmon!

However, for me...my goals are purely financial at this point in my life. And why should they be? I mean...hell...where is it written that we're all supposed to have kids? My priorities are 1) family 2) career 3) wealth/material possessions.

Well, I already have #1 and #2, so what's wrong with being solely committed to #3? My wife and I have expensive tastes. Our idea of a nice living room set costs more than most peoples' cars. We get all the home decorating magazines, the Crate & Barrel and Pottery Barn catalogs...we like nice things and are very committed to procuring them. You people act like wanting kids is the only noble desire!

There's nothing wrong with amassing wealth for the sole purpose of accumulating the things you want! Some of you want kids, so great...enjoy spending your money on them. My wife and I don't want kids...we want a home theater with a plasma screen TV and surround sound...industrial stainless steel kitchen appliances...a couple SUVs...frequent vacations abroad. We want to eat out at 5-star restaurants on a regular basis...a home filled with high-end furniture...walls decorated with art...a home gym with top-of-the-line equipment.

These things aren't cheap, people! And kids are nothing but money-sinks. Every dollar I'd have to spend on some snot-nosed kid is one less dollar we can spend on the things we want. Not to mention, those kids require something more valuable than money....TIME! I can't imagine giving up all my free time. As a physician, my time will be limited...and the last thing I want to do at the end of a hard day's work is come home to little screaming brats. No thank you. I'd rather meet my wife out for coctails and dinner.

I'll be the first to admit, I would be a horrible parent. Luckily I realize that and am not having kids. There is no negative consequence to my choice, though. Our over-populated world certainly won't miss a few less kids. My not having kids doesn't hurt anyone.

I just hate it when parents feel that their choice was "selfless" while my choice is "selfish." What a load of crap! Newsflash for you parents out there: BOTH OF OUR CHOICES IS SELFISH.

That's right. Your choice to have kids is just as selfish as my choice not to. You had kids because YOU WANTED THEM! That is purely 100% selfish. You aren't having kids for any other reason than the fact that YOU WANT THEM.

"Selfish" simply describes actions that fulfill your own desires and wants. Nothing wrong with that at all, in my opinion. However, please quit with the "parents are more selfless" moral superiority crap. You're no less selfish than me. We just want different things.

I personally think that people who choose to bear children, should pass a "parent fitness test". Face it...most people in the world have kids because of unprotected sex. Most kids in the world are unwanted and badly treated.

I also choose not to have kids even if I get married. Everyone who knows me is aware that I love kids and kids take a liking to me. However, I do intend on being involved with kids by doing philanthropic work such as being a Big Sister or helping kids in the 3rd world. Like my mother always said, "If you have kids, your life is going to change. You are not going to be like everyone else...that is,you are not going to produce kids and dump them in a nursery so that other people raise them. That is truly selfish and irresponsible. If you have kids, you are going to raise them for the first few years of their lives till they are school aged."

I find that a lot of women today, in our society, are so materialistic and don't give a crap about their kids. They work full time even though their SO earns enough money for them to have a comfortable life. They have them for the sake of having of them and lay all the responsibility of disciplining their kids in the hands of the day care system and the school system. I find that to be MORE selfish than those who chose NOT to have kids.

Seriously, some people should think twice before producing kids. We don't need more miserable people in the world with all kinds of issues because of a terrible childhood experience and having uncaring parents. Better to be parentless than bring more problems to the world, I say.

 

[Le_Donald]

Son, do NOT move in with this girl unless you are married! That makes her a hussy! I can say this as a former hussy myself, and let me assure you, it is NOT a good reputation to have. Grow a pair and either marry her, or get off the pot!

Hello everyone! I would like to get everyones take on my problem. I have absolutely nothing to do with the medical profession, but my G/F is in nursing school. We plan on moving in together after her last semester and trying to live together for awhile. I have been dating her for 2 years now, and we are planning on tying the knot if living together works well. We get along very well, and I am crazy about her. I love her very much, and I think she is my soulmate. The problem I have is that she wants children, and I do not. I have seen what happens to people when they have kids, and it terrifies me. No time, no money, no freedom. I personally get the trapped deer-in-the-headlights feeling whenever she talks about children. We get along great except for that issue. We have almost broken up over that issue on several occasions, but I have always managed to bring the broken pieces back together. She says that she will be alright if we do not have children, but I can see that it really bothers her. Call me mean, but I cannot stand the thought of having children in my life. I want to spend all of my time with her, not most of it raising a kid. I feel that I am not good father material. I am worried that if we do get married that she is going to resent me for not having children. Also, if we have an oops, she is adamant (sp?) about not terminating the pregnancy (her beliefs). If that happens, I would probably flip out. Do you think that a marriage is feasable? The only reason that we are still going out is that I told her that in 10 years, I will reasess the situation, and maybe we will. What do you think about my situation?

-Trapped in the midwest

 

[Teufelhunden]

Son, do NOT move in with this girl unless you are married! That makes her a hussy! I can say this as a former hussy myself, and let me assure you, it is NOT a good reputation to have. Grow a pair and either marry her, or get off the pot!

I lived with my wife for three years prior to our marriage. I guess that makes her a hussy. (We've been together going on 12 years now). I'm not going to give advice, because when it comes to personal matters it truly is "to each, his own." I just don't appreciate people throwing around pejoratives as descriptors of unmarried people who cohabitate. Marriage, IMHO, is a social construct people feel compelled to enter into, usually d/t religious and cultural reasons. It is still, in fact, the societal norm for people to get married. And, if you (anyone) wants to get married for those reasons, go right ahead. My wife and I got married as a ceremonial, symbolic gesture of commitment towards one another. We did not get married "cuz the Bible says so," or because society would better accept us as a couple if we were married. I'll admit, pragmatic factors also compelled us, i.e. medical insurance for spouse, etc.

I know some very happy couples who have never married, as I know countless miserable married and divorced couples. There seems to be no correlation. Besides the legalities, marriage is defined by each couple. It can mean everything; it can mean nothing.

I just can't believe it's the year 2005, and we're still trying to affix Scarlet Letters on people.

 

[MJArt]

Perhaps it boils down to a fundamental difference in your paradigm: DINKs view life as a journey of self fulfillment, hence wanting to use free time to pursue other interests, e.g. master a classical guitar piece, run a marathon, learn a new language, go back to school and earn another degree, etc, etc. Also, some parents seem to almost brag about the sacrfices of parenting, proudly wearing their parent-status as a badge of courage. Well, sorry...but I've sacrificed enough in other areas of my life...I don't feel this overwhelming urge to add more sacrifice and hardship to my life.

WOAH! I was blown away by these comments. I feel sorry that you have a hard time seeing that people who are parents can suceed as well as enjoy their kids and have time for themselves.

My DH and I just had our fourth child. We had three children when he started medical school. We have accomplished many things with our children. I run marathons frequently, I have earned an advanced degree and am starting a PhD program, my husband did extremely well in med school, as a family we are learning new languages, we play music together (I play and they learn).
We graduated from med school and graduate school with 0 debt a nice savings.

Are my kids snotty nosed brats? Sometimes. But overall they live up to my expectations. Are there sacrifices? Sure. However, if there is anything I want to do I can figure out a way to do it. Nothing is impossible.

Some of these posts are gross misconceptions that one cannot pursue their dreams and be financially successful with kids.

If someone is very anti kids, then don't have kids. Make a decision as a couple. It won't work if either of you resents the other because you have or don't have kids.

 

[MJArt]

...we want a home theater with a plasma screen TV and surround sound...industrial stainless steel kitchen appliances...a couple SUVs...frequent vacations abroad. We want to eat out at 5-star restaurants on a regular basis...a home filled with high-end furniture...walls decorated with art...a home gym with top-of-the-line equipment.

And we can have those things too (and do). The kids know that they can't jump on the furniture, greasy fingers do not belong on the TV, the car is not a jungle gym, stay with mom and dad in a foreign country, food consists of more than pizza, and dining at the table means to sit and use silverware....

These things aren't cheap, people! And kids are nothing but money-sinks. Every dollar I'd have to spend on some snot-nosed kid is one less dollar we can spend on the things we want. Not to mention, those kids require something more valuable than money....TIME! I can't imagine giving up all my free time. As a physician, my time will be limited...and the last thing I want to do at the end of a hard day's work is come home to little screaming brats. No thank you. I'd rather meet my wife out for coctails and dinner.

Money-sinks... Hmmmm, I have yet to experience that. Yes, kids do cost money, but I would not call them a money-sink. Of course, we don't purchase every silly thing that comes out. The kids like to play in the snow, use branches of a tree to build a fort, and boxes are the best toys.

We work hard to save our money for purchases that we want to make - like a luxury car or good furniture. Leather interiors and leather furniture are a must with kids.

I'll be the first to admit, I would be a horrible parent. Luckily I realize that and am not having kids.

It is good that you admit that and have chosen how to live. Please recognize that others can find a way to have the best of both worlds. Kids are not all "money-sinks" and "snot-nosed brats" who suck out the life of any pleasurable existance.

Is it selfish to have kids? Perhaps. However, I realize that because I chose to have children it is my responsibility to teach them to be a productive part of society.

To each their own - just don't tell me that kids ruin your life.

 

[Teufelhunden]

MJArt,

I agree with all your points. When I wrote the rant you quoted, I was in a pretty anti-kid state of mind.

My wife and I know a lot of couples with kids, and none of them are able to strike the balance you and your spouse seem to have found. You make it sound so easy; you two are exceptional people. Most people, however, don't do such a good job at balancing childrearing, demanding professions, fitness/athletic endeavors as well life-enriching hobbies, social life, etc.

 

[MJArt]

MJArt,

I agree with all your points. When I wrote the rant you quoted, I was in a pretty anti-kid state of mind.

My wife and I know a lot of couples with kids, and none of them are able to strike the balance you and your spouse seem to have found. You make it sound so easy; you two are exceptional people. Most people, however, don't do such a good job at balancing childrearing, demanding professions, fitness/athletic endeavors as well life-enriching hobbies, social life, etc.

True. It has taken us a while to find that groove, but it works well for us and is now very easy. Of course, DH is going into General Surgery Residency - so who knows what will happen! LOL! It will just be a new dance.

I just didn't want anyone to think that it was all impossible!

 

[MJB]

Wow, this thread is fascinating, and indicative of what I have experienced...My wife and I lived together for almost 3 years before finally "making it official" and she is now in Nursing school and I'm looking to go back to Med School...Soon, we'll both be 29, and neither of us is sure we want kids....I'm not so certain just merely because I see some of the crap that happens in the world and think it would be mean to bring someone else into it...and part because I enjoy what freedom I do have...

On the other hand, I think it would be a fun and fulfilling experience.

Most annoying to me is the fact that those that DO have kids look down upon those that are married and choose not to have kids....We are treated like ALIENS because we are 29 and don't have 2-3 runts running around yet...and it mystifies me...

Maybe the fact that I was in major debt coming out of college, didn't get married until 26, and had Cancer at 26 gave me a bit of perspective...or maybe I'm just selfish, as those that have kids will often times suggest.

 

[LiveLoveFartRepeat]

What a thread!!!

child..no child...those are so personal questions. Each of us has an anwer unique to him/herself. There is no right or wrong answer..you have to just be carefull and find the perfect match on this issue for you, and promess yoursel not to regret anything later...if you do breack up on the topic and ends up having a child later with somebody else!!!!!!

It's ok not to want child..and thank you for trying really hard not to be parent when you have the feeling that you are not well fit for the challenge....but GOOD LORD...to call children by names..(brat..and so on) is just verbal violence...I am just shocked..this is so sad


but i do recognise that better be childless than a child abuser!!!!!

the violence with which some here talk about children make me think that some issues are not about having kids or not but issues with the kids themselves.Unhappy childhood? missed childhood? I am not a shrink but I am sure that Freud would have offer a good explanation.

Hello everyone! I would like to get everyones take on my problem. I have absolutely nothing to do with the medical profession, but my G/F is in nursing school. We plan on moving in together after her last semester and trying to live together for awhile. I have been dating her for 2 years now, and we are planning on tying the knot if living together works well. We get along very well, and I am crazy about her. I love her very much, and I think she is my soulmate. The problem I have is that she wants children, and I do not. I have seen what happens to people when they have kids, and it terrifies me. No time, no money, no freedom. I personally get the trapped deer-in-the-headlights feeling whenever she talks about children. We get along great except for that issue. We have almost broken up over that issue on several occasions, but I have always managed to bring the broken pieces back together. She says that she will be alright if we do not have children, but I can see that it really bothers her. Call me mean, but I cannot stand the thought of having children in my life. I want to spend all of my time with her, not most of it raising a kid. I feel that I am not good father material. I am worried that if we do get married that she is going to resent me for not having children. Also, if we have an oops, she is adamant (sp?) about not terminating the pregnancy (her beliefs). If that happens, I would probably flip out. Do you think that a marriage is feasable? The only reason that we are still going out is that I told her that in 10 years, I will reasess the situation, and maybe we will. What do you think about my situation?

-Trapped in the midwest

 

[johnk]

All I'm saying is I think people should really think twice before having children especially during a residency or before one. Many couples often change during their training & you never know when a particular program can change as well. To have a child is to introduce all kinds of responsibility on one self & sometimes that is not what one can endure during a residency. It is not fair to the child to witness all these potential problems during the building block years of their life.

 

[Teufelhunden]

All I'm saying is I think people should really think twice before having children especially during a residency or before one. Many couples often change during their training & you never know when a particular program can change as well. To have a child is to introduce all kinds of responsibility on one self & sometimes that is not what one can endure during a residency. It is not fair to the child to witness all these potential problems during the building block years of their life.

I agree wholeheartedly. People say: "If you wait for the 'right time' to have children, then you'll never have them. You need to just have them now, and your life will accommodate."

I've never agreed with that sentiment. I think planning is important. And no matter what people say, residency is generally too tumultuous of a time to add kids to the picture - especially if the other parent is also a working professional in a demanind field.

I applaud those couple who balance child-rearing with demanding, long-hour professions. However, I am realistic about my capabilities. Most days, I'm just amazed that I can continue to survive this insane process of medical education...and feel that if I had one more stressor, it would all fall apart, hence my reluctance to have kids any time soon (I'm only an intern).

And...being a 34 y/o intern w/ a 32 y/o wife...the proverbial clock is ticking from the other end as well. We've (all of us on this forum) have made enormous sacrifices in choosing this profession. This is just one of the realities.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Where are you coming from, Belleau Wood? Nice Alias there yoo-hoo

 

[bwells46]

Oh believe me, "prevention" is my middle name. Not only is my wife on OCP, but whenever possible at work I "pretend" to "forget" my lead vest whenever we're doing Xrays

Why not just get a vasectomy?