Goro’s advice for DO applicants in the absence of grade replacement

[CJhooper123]

Nope, the thing see see on the app form is PBgpa...and the coursework in the transcripts

Thank you Goro! Is this protocol specific for your school or considered universal for MD/DO?

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[Goro]

Thank you Goro! Is this protocol specific for your school or considered universal for MD/DO?

It's what I see on the AACOMAS forms. I believe that AMCAS displays things in a similar manner.

 

[Shotapp]

@Goro or anyone willing to clarify

I took a biostatistics class that was under the biology department (has a BIO prefix). It was a special topics class. In regards to DO sGPA calculation, will this class be taken as science or math?

When I apply in 2019, I'm going to mark this class as a math class and I wanted to know if that is ok.

 

[WhereMyLiberalsAt]

@Goro or anyone willing to clarify

I took a biostatistics class that was under the biology department (has a BIO prefix). It was a special topics class. In regards to DO sGPA calculation, will this class be taken as science or math?

When I apply in 2019, I'm going to mark this class as a math class and I wanted to know if that is ok.

My understanding is the PREFIX is arguably everything... For most people this would be considered “good” because your class would pull up your sGPA and simultaneously bring up your cGPA.

 

[Magus5454]

@Goro or anyone willing to clarify

I took a biostatistics class that was under the biology department (has a BIO prefix). It was a special topics class. In regards to DO sGPA calculation, will this class be taken as science or math?

When I apply in 2019, I'm going to mark this class as a math class and I wanted to know if that is ok.

Should be marked as Biology, imo.

 

[Shotapp]

Ok. Thanks guys. I will mark it as Bio. I received a B in the class so it actually lowers my sGPA a little. I need to take 12 more credits to raise my sGPA from a 3.12 to a 3.2 (not a significant difference but I want to show an upward trend). Before my diy my sGPA was a 2.8 when I graduated so hopefully my trend looks alright in the adcoms eyes.

 

[offthefelt]

I took a biostatistics class that was under the biology department (has a BIO prefix). It was a special topics class. In regards to DO sGPA calculation, will this class be taken as science or math?

When I apply in 2019, I'm going to mark this class as a math class and I wanted to know if that is ok.

As per AACOMAS rules, this course should be classified as Math.

Directly from AACOMAS instructions: "AACOMAS verifies course subjects using the course title and then departmental prefix listed on your official transcript. AACOMAS will not accept course descriptions to verify course subjects."

And if you select "Biostatistics" course subject when entering class, it will get classified under Math. What was the exact course title? Was it "Biostatistics"? If your title says "Special Topics" or something along those lines, then it would go under Biology.

 

[Shotapp]

As per AACOMAS rules, this course should be classified as Math.

Directly from AACOMAS instructions: "AACOMAS verifies course subjects using the course title and then departmental prefix listed on your official transcript. AACOMAS will not accept course descriptions to verify course subjects."

And if you select "Biostatistics" course subject when entering class, it will get classified under Math. What was the exact course title? Was it "Biostatistics"? If your title says "Special Topics" or something along those lines, then it would go under Biology.

That's what I thought. Biostatistics is classified as a math class according to aacomas. On my transcript it says Special Probs: Biostatistics. I'm just going to classify it as a science class.

 

[INC15]

Hi everyone, I just joined SDN looking for some help.

I am currently in a post-bacc program (have taken around 40 credits as of now and current 4.0 gpa) and will have a ~3.1 cgpa/2.97 sgpa at the end of this Spring quarter. I will be taking two classes in the summer to raise my sgpa up to around a 3.02. I was planning on applying this cycle and updating my transcripts with my later 2 courses when I have finished them in August. However, I'm skeptical of my chances despite my upward trend and planning to take my MCAT next month (hoping to receive at least a 505+). My EC are decent and I will have LOR from 2 of my post-bacc professors as well as from an MD and my P.I from undergrad.

Will my application be affected if I send in my coursework for my summer classes later? I'm not sure how it would work for DO schools when they've received my initial application and then I update my transcripts later on. Will they look at my initial app and reject me or do they take into consideration my submitted grades later on?

Also, does anyone know if Psychiatry and Biobehavioral Sciences count as science or non-science? The course prefix is PSCYTRY. I've been calling around and asking, but no one seems to know. Thank you, everyone.

 

[Magus5454]

Being below that 3.0 science might get you screened out some places

 

[INC15]

Being below that 3.0 science might get you screened out some places

Even if I take science courses over the summer and update my app and it will increase it above a 3.0?

 

[Magus5454]

Even if I take science courses over the summer and update my app and it will increase it above a 3.0?

You have an awesome post bacc. You want a real person to see that. If you do very well on the MCAT you have a good shot at the MD schools that reward reinvention... one of these days I need to put @Goro s list in a file

 

[Fun1nth3sun1]

I am considering applying for this cycle and was wondering what my chances are. I have a massive upward trend since undergrad. Since I did so poorly in undergrad, I completed a Masters in Clinical laboratory Science and actually did pretty well. I started my masters three years after graduating undergrad.
Unfortunately, I had over 160 units of credits already in my undergrad, so my gpa did not go up much.

I am currently taking second semester of my Post-bacc (1-year second degree Bachelors Histotechnology).

Here are my stats so far:

cumulative undergrad GPA: 2.08
Graduate GPA: 3.8
Post-Bacc gpa: 3.9
I anticipate that my gpa will stay the same.
After this semester I should have Overall GPA: 2.57 Science gpa: 2.54

For my undergrad gpa, gpa calculations show that first semester I had a 1.9 gpa, then 1.6, then 1.6 then 2.3 senior year...And it continues to go up from there..

MCAT: I am planning to take the MCAT in May and I am currently
averaging 510 on practice MCAT after studying 3-4 months straight.
I have good ECs, Med tech experience and I plan to scribe.

should I continue taking Post-Bacc courses?

 

[de Ribas]

I am considering applying for this cycle and was wondering what my chances are. I have a massive upward trend since undergrad. Since I did so poorly in undergrad, I completed a Masters in Clinical laboratory Science and actually did pretty well. I started my masters three years after graduating undergrad.
Unfortunately, I had over 160 units of credits already in my undergrad, so my gpa did not go up much.

I am currently taking second semester of my Post-bacc (1-year second degree Bachelors Histotechnology).

Here are my stats so far:

cumulative undergrad GPA: 2.08
Graduate GPA: 3.8
Post-Bacc gpa: 3.9
I anticipate that my gpa will stay the same.
After this semester I should have Overall GPA: 2.57 Science gpa: 2.54

For my undergrad gpa, gpa calculations show that first semester I had a 1.9 gpa, then 1.6, then 1.6 then 2.3 senior year...And it continues to go up from there..

MCAT: I am planning to take the MCAT in May and I am currently
averaging 510 on practice MCAT after studying 3-4 months straight.
I have good ECs, Med tech experience and I plan to scribe.

should I continue taking Post-Bacc courses?

1 semester of post bacc undergrad courses is no enough IMO.

 

[INC15]

You have an awesome post bacc. You want a real person to see that. If you do very well on the MCAT you have a good shot at the MD schools that reward reinvention... one of these days I need to put @Goro s list in a file

Thank you. Depending on if my psychiatry and biobehavioral classes counts as science for AACOMAS, my science gpa could reach a 3.0 without my summer classes but I will still most likely take them just in case. Do you know some of those MD schools that you've mentioned?

 

[Magus5454]

I am considering applying for this cycle and was wondering what my chances are. I have a massive upward trend since undergrad. Since I did so poorly in undergrad, I completed a Masters in Clinical laboratory Science and actually did pretty well. I started my masters three years after graduating undergrad.
Unfortunately, I had over 160 units of credits already in my undergrad, so my gpa did not go up much.

I am currently taking second semester of my Post-bacc (1-year second degree Bachelors Histotechnology).

Here are my stats so far:

cumulative undergrad GPA: 2.08
Graduate GPA: 3.8
Post-Bacc gpa: 3.9
I anticipate that my gpa will stay the same.
After this semester I should have Overall GPA: 2.57 Science gpa: 2.54

For my undergrad gpa, gpa calculations show that first semester I had a 1.9 gpa, then 1.6, then 1.6 then 2.3 senior year...And it continues to go up from there..

MCAT: I am planning to take the MCAT in May and I am currently
averaging 510 on practice MCAT after studying 3-4 months straight.
I have good ECs, Med tech experience and I plan to scribe.

should I continue taking Post-Bacc courses?

In your case, you are never going to get your GPA up to 3.0. SMP or maybe ~30 credits post bacc

 

[Magus5454]

Thank you. Depending on if my psychiatry and biobehavioral classes counts as science for AACOMAS, my science gpa could reach a 3.0 without my summer classes but I will still most likely take them just in case. Do you know some of those MD schools that you've mentioned?

I'll try to find Goros list or maybe he'll post it

 

[Fun1nth3sun1]

In your case, you are never going to get your GPA up to 3.0. SMP or maybe ~30 credits post bacc

Do you think 30 credits (With a high gpa) would be enough? I am planning to take 12 credits of science courses this summer while working part-time and scribing part-time and have already completed 13 credits of science post-bacc courses last fall. After this spring semester is over in May and assuming gpa is still high I should be at 39 credits of Post-Bacc courses.

 

[GTown]

Thank you. Depending on if my psychiatry and biobehavioral classes counts as science for AACOMAS, my science gpa could reach a 3.0 without my summer classes but I will still most likely take them just in case. Do you know some of those MD schools that you've mentioned?

I'm pretty sure psych counts as behavioral sciences as probably does bio behavioral. I put all my psych and soc classes as behavioral and not science - even the ones that had a heavy physiological component. But check with AACOMAS - it might take a few tries to get a hold of someone.

 

[Chibucks15]

Do you think 30 credits (With a high gpa) would be enough? I am planning to take 12 credits of science courses this summer while working part-time and scribing part-time and have already completed 13 credits of science post-bacc courses last fall. After this spring semester is over in May and assuming gpa is still high I should be at 39 credits of Post-Bacc courses.

With a GPA that low its gonna be harder and harder to make up the gap. Especially without grade replacement. Honestly you'll be at a whole seperate degree by the time you get your GPA up to an acceptable level...its an uphill battle but if this is what you really want to do then work for it. It doesnt matter how many credits you've taken its your cumulative GPA

 

[INC15]

I'm pretty sure psych counts as behavioral sciences as probably does bio behavioral. I put all my psych and soc classes as behavioral and not science - even the ones that had a heavy physiological component. But check with AACOMAS - it might take a few tries to get a hold of someone.

Thank you. On the website biobehavioral was considered an "other science" whereas psych was "behavioral science"/non-science. I've emailed them and they just got back to me that it's most likely considered an "other science" but I'd have to wait until I go through the verification process to make sure and they can review the course description if they end up saying it's a non-science. So I can only hope that it counts.

 

[Magus5454]

Looking for some feedback here.

Is a 3.38/3.45 gpa salvageable with a good MCAT score? I'm taking it in may and my practice tests have been going well. I have a strong upward trend with mostly As/A-. I had challenges in my first two years of college with 3 w's. Had to withdraw from school for a quarter and was receiving psychiatric counseling throughout this process. Should I disclose this information somewhere in my application or not mention it? I know that those who have had mental health issues can easily be discriminated against in medicine. Not trying to play a victim card just wondering what the best strategy would be.

I have a 3.17/3.29 and got tons of interviews . Given I had a 515 MCAT. And i have so many Ws I lost count

 

[LukaDoncicLuk]

I have a 3.17/3.29 and got tons of interviews . Given I had a 515 MCAT. And i have so many Ws I lost count

Cool thanks. I'm hoping to break the 510 barrier at least. Have gotten a couple of 511/512s on kaplan and ns full lengths. Taking in may.

 

[Magus5454]

Looking for some feedback here.

Is a 3.38/3.45 gpa salvageable with a good MCAT score? I'm taking it in may and my practice tests have been going well. I have a strong upward trend with mostly As/A-. I had challenges in my first two years of college with 3 w's. Had to withdraw from school for a quarter and was receiving psychiatric counseling throughout this process. Should I disclose this information somewhere in my application or not mention it? I know that those who have had mental health issues can easily be discriminated against in medicine. Not trying to play a victim card just wondering what the best strategy would be.

Also in my personal statement I wrote about how my grandfather's death led to me failing a semester but also how I used it as a turning point to getting my degree and pursuing medicine

 

[GTown]

I have a 3.17/3.29 and got tons of interviews . Given I had a 515 MCAT. And i have so many Ws I lost count

Same!

Cool thanks. I'm hoping to break the 510 barrier at least. Have gotten a couple of 511/512s on kaplan and ns full lengths. Taking in may.

Was gonna say same thing - healthy upward trend plus a strong MCAT you should be fine.

 

[GTown]

Looking for some feedback here.

Is a 3.38/3.45 gpa salvageable with a good MCAT score? I'm taking it in may and my practice tests have been going well. I have a strong upward trend with mostly As/A-. I had challenges in my first two years of college with 3 w's. Had to withdraw from school for a quarter and was receiving psychiatric counseling throughout this process. Should I disclose this information somewhere in my application or not mention it? I know that those who have had mental health issues can easily be discriminated against in medicine. Not trying to play a victim card just wondering what the best strategy would be.

Hmm. I discussed my personal struggles in my PS but more as a stepping stone to how they've helped me mature and grow. I talked about my moms illness, death, how it changed me, led me to pharma research and then back to medicine.!I'd be happy to share my PS if you'd like.

That said, I don't know how mental health issues are seen by adcom. Someone more experienced would have a more better answer. My gut tells me - maybe not something you want to share because you don't know who will be reading it. I'd like to think people are sympathetic and understanding, but ultimately they're taking a chance on you. Thats what my gut says. A more wisened person will likely have a more nuanced answer.

 

[I'mJustCurious]

I have a 3.17/3.29 and got tons of interviews . Given I had a 515 MCAT. And i have so many Ws I lost count

Any advice on breaking the 510 barrier?

 

[Magus5454]

Any advice on breaking the 510 barrier?

Um, i didn't study for it at all. I have a crazy memory.

 

[Goro]

Thank you. Depending on if my psychiatry and biobehavioral classes counts as science for AACOMAS, my science gpa could reach a 3.0 without my summer classes but I will still most likely take them just in case. Do you know some of those MD schools that you've mentioned?

Thank you. On the website biobehavioral was considered an "other science" whereas psych was "behavioral science"/non-science. I've emailed them and they just got back to me that it's most likely considered an "other science" but I'd have to wait until I go through the verification process to make sure and they can review the course description if they end up saying it's a non-science. So I can only hope that it counts.

You'll be more impressive if you took courses that mimic med school, not a grad psychology program

Looking for some feedback here.
Is a 3.38/3.45 gpa salvageable with a good MCAT score? I'm taking it in may and my practice tests have been going well. I have a strong upward trend with mostly As/A-. I had challenges in my first two years of college with 3 w's. Had to withdraw from school for a quarter and was receiving psychiatric counseling throughout this process. Should I disclose this information somewhere in my application or not mention it? I know that those who have had mental health issues can easily be discriminated against in medicine. Not trying to play a victim card just wondering what the best strategy would be.

Yes to first, no to second, except for secondary prompts on how you overcame obstacles or displayed resilience. Do NOT embark upon this path though, until your mental health issues are fully under control. Med school breaks people.

 

[LukaDoncicLuk]

Yes to first, no to second, except for secondary prompts on how you overcame obstacles or displayed resilience. Do NOT embark upon this path though, until your mental health issues are fully under control. Med school breaks people.

Very much appreciate the feedback. It was more of an existential issue that maturity and self-reflection have resolved. Not trying to divulge too much personal information but I was never was diagnosed with anything/medicated and have been doing great for the last three years.

 

[GTown]

Any advice on breaking the 510 barrier?

Don't just memorize material but understand how it relates and works together. I'm not particularly fond of memorization without application so the MCAT suited me that way. Of course know everything, but understand that it's not just knowing. Also if you do enough FLs and AAMC exams you'll start to pick up on trends. At least I felt like I did. It's a comprehension and application exam, not just memorizing, so study accordingly. And lots of good luck!

 

[INC15]

You'll be more impressive if you took courses that mimic med school, not a grad psychology program

Those courses were based on the research I was doing with a P.I in a neuroscience institute during undergrad. I have taken upper-div courses in my post-bacc that mimic med school.

 

[Goro]

Those courses were based on the research I was doing with a P.I in a neuroscience institute during undergrad. I have taken upper-div courses in my post-bacc that mimic med school.

Then you're good!

 

[jcw_90]

Rule #1: Take a deep breath, and stop fussing. The sky is not falling, and you medical careers are not over.

I’m going to go out on a limb and make my advice as follows.

a) IF you have F/D grades in the pre-reqs, retake them. You need to show that you can master this material, and it will help you for MCAT (assuming that you haven’t taken the MCAT). If you got C's, take some upper level science classes and ace them. Never, ever retake a B.

If the material was from a long time ago, and you got a B, but you feel you need a refresher for the MCAT, simply audit the course instead.

b) You are now in the position of someone who is considering MD schools as well as DO, after reinvention. There are MD schools that reward reinvention . The DO path will be a little easier, but still require an investment of 1-2 years of not GPA repair, but of transcript repair.

c) The goal is NOT to raise your cGPA to a sky high level, but rather show that the you of now is not the you of then, and that you can handle a medical school curriculum.

d) Thus, take 1-2 years of a DIY post-bac, or a 1 year SMP, preferably one given at a medical school. Do well in either of these programs. A 3.5+ should suffice for a DO school, while 3.7+ will be needed for an MD school. I have written elsewhere as to the pluses and minuses of post-bac vs SMP.

e) in addition to d), your MCAT score will determine where to aim. I suggest:

513+ MD schools

510+ your state MD school and any DO school

505+ any DO school

500+ the newest DO schools

On top of these, get as much patient contact volunteering time in as possible. A trend I am seeing from SDNers who have received interviews from good schools, and who also reinvented themselves, is that they have lots of clinical volunteering or employment...some even in the 1000s of hours.

EDIT: kudos to darkeon for the addendum!
In addition, the former is less expensive. A formal post-bac program is more geared toward career switchers, and mostly provide the pre-reqs, and probably some MCAT advice/prep as well.

The latter can be a backdoor into med school, and you real advice from med school faculty (if given at a med school). Plus, you're a known quantity to the Adcom members, who will frequently be your SMP faculty. But if you do poorly, your SMP degree is worthless, unless the program has some added-value component, like some research venue.

EDIT: What classes should one take in a DIY post-bac??? Things that mimic a medical school curriculum!

Anatomy
Physiology
Histology
Biostats
Cell Bio
Molecular Bio or Genetics
Biochem
Med Micro
Neuroscience
Immunology
Parasitology (if offered)
Pathology

In regards to this advice:
"If the material was from a long time ago, and you got a B, but you feel you need a refresher for the MCAT, simply audit the course instead."

If I am currently trying to repair my gpa, and going to put in all the effort to audit the course, why wouldn't I want to take it for credit and simultaneously improve my gpa when I get an A in it?

 

[drstranger]

In regards to this advice:
"If the material was from a long time ago, and you got a B, but you feel you need a refresher for the MCAT, simply audit the course instead."

If I am currently trying to repair my gpa, and going to put in all the effort to audit the course, why wouldn't I want to take it for credit and simultaneously improve my gpa when I get an A in it?

You never want to retake a B It is high-risk low reward. A to B will be such a small change to your GPA, but if you don't get higher than a B it will show schools you cant master content after 2 passes. If you want to repair your GPA focus on classes you had a C or lower or on upper division classes

 

[Goro]

You never want to retake a B It is high-risk low reward. A to B will be such a small change to your GPA, but if you don't get higher than a B it will show schools you cant master content after 2 passes. If you want to repair your GPA focus on classes you had a C or lower or on upper division classes

This.

 

[jcw_90]

You never want to retake a B It is high-risk low reward. A to B will be such a small change to your GPA, but if you don't get higher than a B it will show schools you cant master content after 2 passes. If you want to repair your GPA focus on classes you had a C or lower or on upper division classes

thanks for taking the time to respond.

I think I must be confused on how gpa is calculated.

I thought that repeated courses are calculated the same way as if I took a completely different course.

For example, I took a 3-unit course in Psychology and got an A 10 years ago.

If I take it again and get an A (I am not worried about getting a sub-A grade in Psychology, personally), wouldn't that be the same affect to my GPA as taking some other 3 unit course and getting an A in it?

Are repeated courses calculated differently?

 

[deleted1079620]

thanks for taking the time to respond.

I think I must be confused on how gpa is calculated.

I thought that repeated courses are calculated the same way as if I took a completely different course.

For example, I took a 3-unit course in Psychology and got an A 10 years ago.

If I take it again and get an A (I am not worried about getting a sub-A grade in Psychology, personally), wouldn't that be the same affect to my GPA as taking some other 3 unit course and getting an A in it?

Are repeated courses calculated differently?

It's not about how it's calculated, it's about how an admissions committee views retaking a B course. It will be calculated as a separate course, but it will show up on your transcript twice. If you retake it and get an A, it conveys little to the committee. If you retake it and get less than a B, it says something negative. If you take a higher level course and get an A, that says more about your abilities than retaking a course and getting an A.

 

[taurusajg]

Checking in after doing 1.5 years of postbacc at a cc and 4 yr. was able to raise my aacomas sgpa from a 2.41 to a 2.88 after taking 37 semester units at a 4.0 (non science included for my plan b in nursing in case this med school stuff doesn’t work out)

I’ll Probably continue taking courses for another year or two, but is this path ok? Starting to feel a bit impatient and wanting to jump on that mph train.

37 unit postbacc consisted of
Gen chem 1 (retake)
Microbiology (retake because I needed the lab)
Anatomy (retook because I had a C in the lab)
Physiology
Histology
Nutrition
Bioethics
General Psychology
Abnormal Psychology
Lifespan psychology
Public Speaking
Interpersonal communications

I plan to take:
Ochem (retakes)
Physics 2 (retake)
Biochem (retake)
Pathophysiology
Pharmacology
and other upper div at the four year


is this ok? If I take another 15 units at 4.0, I can finally reach a 3.0 and apply DO

thank you

 

[Goro]

Checking in after doing 1.5 years of postbacc at a cc and 4 yr. was able to raise my aacomas sgpa from a 2.41 to a 2.88 after taking 37 semester units at a 4.0 (non science included for my plan b in nursing in case this med school stuff doesn’t work out)

I’ll Probably continue taking courses for another year or two, but is this path ok? Starting to feel a bit impatient and wanting to jump on that mph train.

37 unit postbacc consisted of
Gen chem 1 (retake)
Microbiology (retake because I needed the lab)
Anatomy (retook because I had a C in the lab)
Physiology
Histology
Nutrition
Bioethics
General Psychology
Abnormal Psychology
Lifespan psychology
Public Speaking
Interpersonal communications

I plan to take:
Ochem (retakes)
Physics 2 (retake)
Biochem (retake)
Pathophysiology
Pharmacology
and other upper div at the four year


is this ok? If I take another 15 units at 4.0, I can finally reach a 3.0 and apply DO

thank you

Sounds fine!!!!!! And good luck!!!

 

[Calizboosted76]

Checking in after doing 1.5 years of postbacc at a cc and 4 yr. was able to raise my aacomas sgpa from a 2.41 to a 2.88 after taking 37 semester units at a 4.0 (non science included for my plan b in nursing in case this med school stuff doesn’t work out)

I’ll Probably continue taking courses for another year or two, but is this path ok? Starting to feel a bit impatient and wanting to jump on that mph train.

37 unit postbacc consisted of
Gen chem 1 (retake)
Microbiology (retake because I needed the lab)
Anatomy (retook because I had a C in the lab)
Physiology
Histology
Nutrition
Bioethics
General Psychology
Abnormal Psychology
Lifespan psychology
Public Speaking
Interpersonal communications

I plan to take:
Ochem (retakes)
Physics 2 (retake)
Biochem (retake)
Pathophysiology
Pharmacology
and other upper div at the four year


is this ok? If I take another 15 units at 4.0, I can finally reach a 3.0 and apply DO

thank you

Just my two cents, I did close to 60 credit hours and was still under 3.0. I got a 506 MCAT and had two acceptances very early on in the cycle. Still waiting to hear about 30ish schools. However I have already been accepted to a top choice and placed my deposit.

Your class selection looks great. Keep up the hard work. I promise, after all is said and done and you have an acceptance, its all worth it.

Edit: My 60 credit hours was actually still part of my undergrad as well. Failing classes early on caused my undergrad to drag 6 years total.