Goro was right

[deleted1129372]

***edited for privacy***

Questions

• How many schools?
• Should I apply DO? How many?
• Do I need to include more recent less meaningful volunteer work if I have a few great experiences from years ago?
• Is starting clinical work this late a bad look? Should I sit out a cycle?
• Do I have to rewrite my PS? I'm really proud of it.
• If you were me and had $1500 burning a whole in your pocket, would you pay a consultant?

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[gyngyn]

When I see a re-applicant who submits the same PS, the application stops there.
I've seen so much cash wasted on consultants that I've been tempted to become one myself! I just don't have the stomach to take money from the vulnerable.
Contact the NAAHP, if you need personal attention that we cannot provide, but you have already identified the weaknesses in your ap.

 

[deleted1129372]

When I see a re-applicant who submits the same PS, the application stops there.
I've seen so much cash wasted on consultants that I've been tempted to become one myself!

Yikes, thank you! Complete rewrite or modest but not insignificant changes? Can I add/change anecdotes/lessons, but keep the same general structure? The same opening? Is the same true for the W/A section?

 

[gyngyn]

Yikes, thank you! Complete rewrite or modest but not insignificant changes? Can I add/change anecdotes/lessons, but keep the same general structure? The same opening? Is the same true for the W/A section?

Significant changes to similar themes will suffice. Do not keep the opening.
W/A can always be improved. It's the hardest part of the primary application.

 

[deleted1129372]

Significant changes to similar themes will suffice. Do not keep the opening.
W/A can always be improved. It's the hardest part of the primary application.

Copy. I appreciate your feedback.

 

[wysdoc]

Yikes, thank you! Complete rewrite or modest but not insignificant changes? Can I add/change anecdotes/lessons, but keep the same general structure? The same opening? Is the same true for the W/A section?

You really can’t afford to fall in love with your own prose. Tell yourself that this essay didn’t get you to your goal!
Besides working on your clinical activities and shadowing, having no faculty letters of recommendation seems like an issue to me. Most schools ask for them specifically.

 

[deleted1129372]

You really can’t afford to fall in love with your own prose. Tell yourself that this essay didn’t get you to your goal!
Besides working on your clinical activities and shadowing, having no faculty letters of recommendation seems like an issue to me. Most schools ask for them specifically.

The schools I applied to either did not require them or made exceptions for people who have been out of school for >5 years. I know my letters covered the core competencies and the writers know me well. That’s the best I can do.

ETA: I guess I do have time to take a spring class on the quarter system and try to get a letter. Is no letters from an instructor really a red flag for an older nontrad?

Love the don’t fall in love with your own prose advice though.

 

[LunaOri]

You need the clinical exposure and shadowing so we can see that you know what you would be getting into. You need current non-clinical volunteering to show that you care about serving the less fortunate.

 

[deleted1129372]

You need current non-clinical volunteering to show that you care about serving the less fortunate.

Fitting everything into 15 spaces, 700 characters is difficult. I have 9 years (3 entries for 4 activities) worth of activities working with people who are marginalized. This doesn’t even include everything I did in that time. What I’ve done over the last 5 years is random things here and there like food drives, blood donation, helping get essential supplies for people experiencing homelessness. Nothing sustained. How important is it to include these?

 

[Dral]

I would personally rather see sustained activities. Over the years I have come to appreciate depth over breadth. Depth in an activity tells us you are a person who can develop a passion for something and totally dive in and do it. Breadth can tell us you have varied interests, but it can also be taken as checking off boxes or trying to make an app look impressive by having tons of things listed without doing much more than scratching the surface. I admittedly did the latter back in my day.

I didn't have letters from any instructors. I went to a huge state university, so I'm not sure I would have gotten one if I applied fresh out of undergrad anyway.

I didn't have any clinical experience, like 0 hours, when I applied about 15 years ago. I missed that memo I guess. I to this day am amazed that I got in somewhere (and it was a pretty good school too). You already know it, but try your best to get that in person experience.

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

if it is a most meaningful you get more space

or you did check the w/a thread for more info

 

[chilly_md]

You should probably apply DO to help ensure you won’t have to go through a 3rd application cycle.

 

[Goro]

For God's sake, if you truly wish to be a doctor, do not list blood donation as one of your extracurriculars. Unless it were something like you organized a blood drive that netted the blood bank 10000 L of blood.

Also, following the advice of the wise Dral, do what you love and love what you do.

I think that you do need a gap year, unless your MCAT will expire.

And think about that interview bomb concerning how you couldn't articulate why you wanted to be a doctor very very carefully. The fact that it was explained in your personal statement is a 100% irrelevant. You had your chance to sell yourself, and you couldn't do it.

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

hese are things like food drives, working a vaccine clinic, fundraising events, serving Thanksgiving meals at shelters, etc. Should I include an entry for miscellaneous nonclinical volunteering?

this yes
blood giving no

 

[LindaAccepted]

I thought I was special and would be accepted this cycle with no in-person clinical experience. I was wrong. Please read on and give me your harshest critique. I will listen this time. Thank you!

***got what I needed, specifics edited for privacy***

Mistakes/Problems

• 0 in-person clinical experience
• Did not include virtual shadowing in W/A (mentioned it in COVID essays when given the opportunity)
• Top-heavy and tiny school list (13)
• Secondaries complete 08/03 - 09/06
• Flubbed "Why medicine?" question in my only interview (it's clear in my PS)
• Non-clinical volunteering is not recent
• Most secondary writing was lower quality compared to my primary
• No LORs from professors (the one I was going to ask died)

Strengths/Good news

• Writing
• Interesting personal journey demonstrating resilience and all that
• Long history of face-to-face service work with people different from me
• Had one interview at a social-justice oriented school
• Received secondaries from UCSF, all other UCs, and Vanderbilt
• Strong LORs from research faculty and work supervisor

Changes for upcoming cycle

• Will submit the first day and have re-written secondaries ready to go
• 1 additional manuscript
• Will include virtual shadowing in W/A
• I am starting a scribe job next week that will add hundreds of clinical hours
• More interview prep
• More humble school list

Questions

• How many schools?
• Should I apply DO? How many?
• Do I need to include more recent less meaningful volunteer work if I have a few great experiences from years ago?
• Is starting clinical work this late a bad look? Should I sit out a cycle?
• Do I have to rewrite my PS? I'm really proud of it.
• If you were me and had $1500 burning a whole in your pocket, would you pay a consultant?

If you made it this far, thank you.

To address your questions:

1. We typically recommend around 20 schools, but a "more humble" list is a good idea. Apply to programs where you are competitive based on your stats and where your values match the schools' values and mission. In state is also a good idea, if you have a chance of acceptance. I couldn't find your GPA and MCAT score so I can't really say DO is the way to go.
2. I couldn't find your GPA and MCAT score so I can't really say DO is the way to go.
3 &4. You are trying to enter a field devoted to service. If your commitment to community service ended 5 years ago, that's a problem. I'd either try to start some small commitment, wait a year, or have a category for misc svc (2017-22). I agree that blood donation is not worth mentioning.
5. It's better than not having it. Get the clinical as a scribe and move on. Use it to show the growth schools want to see in reapplicants.
6. Yes. In addition to not being in love with your prose, you need to show growth since your last application. What have you learned in the last year (other than the mistakes you made in your previous application)? How have you grown in the past year?
7. Gyngyn and I have a difference of opinion on the value and motivations of consultants. If you think spending $1500 on a consultant would make the difference between acceptance and rejection, it could be the best $1500 you ever invest. Application will cost several thousand dollars, And if you start medical school a year earlier, you will have an additional year of physician salary that is probably much more than you are currently making, and maybe even more than the $1500 we are talking about.

 

[deleted1129372]

To update, I was able to have my PS and W/A reviewed by people here.

Turns out my PS is bad, which is actually a relief. I’m happy to start over now. It was all seed and no convincing evidence. I just started scribing and will also start an EMT job next week. I should be able to write a better PS now that I’m getting in-person experience.

My W/A were mostly excellent, and probably what got me my lone interview. I’ll improve on what I’m keeping and will also have a handful of new activities.

Finally, in an effort to “do what I love” and show recent community service, I’m also organizing a project involving a niche skill I have that will benefit an underserved community.

Thank you all for your input!

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

Finally, in an effort to “do what I love” and show recent community service, I’m also organizing a project involving a niche skill I have that will benefit an underserved community.

Being a reapplicant and having what will likely appear to be just a couple months' worth of volunteering and clinical exposure via a Scribe job the past 3 months right before applying probably won't help you much, honestly. You have to look at your application you submit as signed, sealed, and delivered, and disregard all "planned" activities for the 12 months following the time you submit your application. AdComs look at what you've done, not what you say that you are going to do (or are continuing to do).

As someone that went through 4 application cycles (albeit for different reasons), I'd highly advise you against re-applying this summer and wait until you have an entire year's worth of change in your application. You need to seriously consider waiting to apply until Summer '23 to show sustained growth and genuine interest in serving others and in medicine in general. The more times you apply, the harder it is to get in.

Also, I wouldn't consider "got secondaries from X and Y school" as a differentiating accomplishment. Secondaries are typically sent out to all applicants that meet certain GPA/MCAT thresholds for a given school. They'll gladly take app fee$ from students that are remotely in the ballpark of academic competence for their school, and be even more glad to toss aside your application when they see the dearth in clinical and volunteering activities compared to the other 5,000 qualified applicants they sent secondary apps.

 

[deleted1129372]

Most of the context is gone from the post now, but I agree with you about the last minute look of the clinical hours @Darrow O'Lykos. I had ~100 gained over a year when I went into this cycle, so I am adding to something. But it is what it is.

 

[chilly_md]

The biggest mistake reapplicants make is reapplying too early. I have linked Goniff’s detailed post regarding this topic:

Waitlist technicality