Georgetown SMP 2010-2011

[garyinthehouse]

There are always a few who do enter into the islands even after doing one of these programs. Often times they are people who may have messed up in the SMP. Like one year there was a guy who did another similar SMP elsewhere and ended up at SGU but he also admitted here on SDN that he had a C in one of the major classes that was a lot of credits. he still got to interview at the host school but that pretty much put him out of the running. Even with all they do to help, there will still be a handful of people that can't handle it and get below the B mark. A recent histogram and other data posted about our histology test we had up here at BU MAMS revealed that the highest was a 96.21% combined total between lab and lecture overall grade but the lowest was 40.55%. Put that into perspective if you will. So there is still some who do more poorly then people give them credit for and those are the ones that end up in islands or those who don't want to reapply after doing the one year of classes because they are sick of dealing with applications. So without more info we can't say for sure what it is that is causing these people to end up at such. But more often then not there is stuff that we don't know to the story that may be contributing to such.

You're absolutely right. My belief is that you have this one shot, one chance to tell the world where you want to go, what you want to do, and more importantly, that you can do this. It's as if we are facing the edge of a cliff.

It's time to pull out all the ammo. I think that as undergrads, we are doing a ton of stuff (I was averaging 16-18 units at UC irvine, about 16 hours of research/week, doing valet on the evenings, doing some volunteering and then, randomly, going to some club meetings). These things took up a lot of my time and sucked up a ton of energy. And add to that intoxicating mix, studying for the MCAT (23 and 27 ring a bell lol) Kind of why I'm in the running for an SMP because of my lacluster 3.3 GPA Ohh how naive I was....anyway...

My belief is, and please correct me if I am wrong, but if we don't have these distractions (such as research, volunteer, work, etc), we can shoot for a high grade. I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but I think it is doable. M1 classes are no walks in the park, but this is our chance to shine

Any opinions?

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[garyinthehouse]

It is doable but it will still be tough due to the abundance of info per one test. Just work like you've never worked before.

 

[FutureMDer]

You're absolutely right. My belief is that you have this one shot, one chance to tell the world where you want to go, what you want to do, and more importantly, that you can do this. It's as if we are facing the edge of a cliff.

It's time to pull out all the ammo. I think that as undergrads, we are doing a ton of stuff (I was averaging 16-18 units at UC irvine, about 16 hours of research/week, doing valet on the evenings, doing some volunteering and then, randomly, going to some club meetings). These things took up a lot of my time and sucked up a ton of energy. And add to that intoxicating mix, studying for the MCAT (23 and 27 ring a bell lol) Kind of why I'm in the running for an SMP because of my lacluster 3.3 GPA Ohh how naive I was....anyway...

My belief is, and please correct me if I am wrong, but if we don't have these distractions (such as research, volunteer, work, etc), we can shoot for a high grade. I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but I think it is doable. M1 classes are no walks in the park, but this is our chance to shine

Any opinions?

Yes, it is possible to do very well in this program. However, you have to be super determined and have a high threshold for not burning out. To get A-/A in all the classes (especially med classes) you NEED to study at least 8hrs a day to be at the top. Don't forget, grades for the med classes do not factor in former SMPs who are now medical students. However, they never said people who completed programs at Tufts, BU, EVMS, Drexel, Loyola etc. are taking these M1 classes and their grades are not exempt from the average. Like one poster said way above, it's easy to get B's in these classes, but it's very difficult to consistently get A's when your going against a very inteligent group of students and a sizeable portion of med students were past SMP students from other programs.

Second, GujuDoc are you sure you're not an admissions person/faculty because you know way too much for the average SMPer haha. I honestly think some of our advisers know less about the programs than you do. Heck, you know more little facts about Georgetown's SMP than I do and I'm attending currently.

 

[klmnop]

Don't forget, grades for the med classes do not factor in former SMPs who are now medical students. However, they never said people who completed programs at Tufts, BU, EVMS, Drexel, Loyola etc. are taking these M1 classes and their grades are not exempt from the average.

Sorry but I don't understand what you mean in these two sentences.

 

[drizzt3117]

Yes, it is possible to do very well in this program. However, you have to be super determined and have a high threshold for not burning out. To get A-/A in all the classes (especially med classes) you NEED to study at least 8hrs a day to be at the top. Don't forget, grades for the med classes do not factor in former SMPs who are now medical students. However, they never said people who completed programs at Tufts, BU, EVMS, Drexel, Loyola etc. are taking these M1 classes and their grades are not exempt from the average. Like one poster said way above, it's easy to get B's in these classes, but it's very difficult to consistently get A's when your going against a very inteligent group of students and a sizeable portion of med students were past SMP students from other programs.

Second, GujuDoc are you sure you're not an admissions person/faculty because you know way too much for the average SMPer haha. I honestly think some of our advisers know less about the programs than you do. Heck, you know more little facts about Georgetown's SMP than I do and I'm attending currently.

You think people who did SMPs at Tufts, BU, EVMS, etc, are scoring higher at GT than the people who got into GT without a SMP? That might be the case, but I wouldn't bet money on it.

 

[jslo85]

It's nice to have people who do thorough research on programs to offer advice to those looking to apply into SMPs. If it wasn't for SDN, I probably would have felt pretty lost in even approaching the SMP route because most advisors in your undergrad institution or doctors that you talk to are oblivious or nebulus at best on anything other than the "traditional" path to get into medical school.

That said, I have also seen people who complain after getting into some of these programs that there are unexpected elements that they "had not known about" which could have been easily avoided from the start had they listened to advice from members in this forum. Long story short, thanks guju + other veterans on SDN who are still active to share an unbiased in depth perspective.

 

[FutureMDer]

Sorry but I don't understand what you mean in these two sentences.

Our grades in medical school classes are dependent on how the medical students perform in the class, not on how SMP students (or GEMS) perform in the class. In addition, past SMP students who are now M1's at Georgetown are not factored into the Medical average for our exams if they choose to retake the course. However, there are a few M1's, that have come from other school's SMP programs (Drexel, Loyola, Tufts etc.) and from my understanding their scores are still factored into the M1 average. One would expect they should easily perform above average and will usually be top contenders for setting the cutoff for an A (top 10-15% of the class). So for the medical school class, 18-27 students should receive an A out of 180. SMPs usually average a point or two lower than the medical school, so that most likely means between a dozen or two dozen will get a solid A in a medical school course.

Does this make more sense?

 

[drizzt3117]

I can't speak for GT but at my med school, the students coming out of SMPs are nowhere near the top of the class, although they're certainly not the worst students either, most of them are right at or around the class averages.

 

[FutureMDer]

You think people who did SMPs at Tufts, BU, EVMS, etc, are scoring higher at GT than the people who got into GT without a SMP? That might be the case, but I wouldn't bet money on it.

I would bet a lot of money that former SMP students from other programs on average score higher than incoming medical students who have never done an SMP program. Think about it. This is the second time they've seen the material and I am sure these students tend to be the better half of SMPs in their program. Next year I will have already seen 75-85% of the M1's material (through both medical and graduate courses) and will be way ahead of my fellow classmates at the medical school I plan to attend next year. It is one of the greatest perks to the program.

 

[jslo85]

You think people who did SMPs at Tufts, BU, EVMS, etc, are scoring higher at GT than the people who got into GT without a SMP? That might be the case, but I wouldn't bet money on it.

Well I wouldn't stake my life on it either but if all things equal (yes realistically they aren't unfortunately) they should have a large advantage due to them having "seen" the material before and tested in a roughly equivalent atmosphere of medical students. I don't know about those SMPs, but at other SMP programs like KCOM, they require MBS students to perform at a minimum of 80% seeing that they are taking a slightly less curriculum than the MS1s but that the lecture/tests/labs are performed by MBS and MS1s side by side.

Does it mean this will always be the case? Of course not. But theoretically they should perform better. I've seen another post by a former PCOM Biomed who is now an MS1 saying his classmmates in medical school are complaining at how the MBS students are having such an "unfair advantage" as they have all seen the material before and had the same instructor. Yes apparently at PCOM the credit doesn't transfer over from the masters program to the MBS because they don't actually take the lecture with the MS1s butu they do have the same instructor and are lectured on virtually the same material/ppts. Again, I do agree with you that it's not 100% but I would expect SMP students who matriculate into medical school to perform better (if only slightly and not uniform across the board for everyone) than the general group of medical students.

 

[drizzt3117]

Obviously if you're taking a lot of the same classes over (like a GT student who decided to repeat 100% of the classes they took in the SMP) then they'd have some advantage, but different schools have drastically different material presented in 1st year than others. Med schools generally teach about the same curriculum in the preclinical years, but how they structure it in year 1 vs 2 is completely different. Some schools don't have anatomy 1st year at all and teach organ system pathophysiology, others only do normal physiology. Obviously having some experience with the flow of medical school is going to help but the students that are going to be at the top of the class aren't going to have a problem with that anyways.

If you're going to make the argument that students that finished a SMP will do well in med school as far as being above average, maybe I'd buy that, but saying they're necessarily going to finish in the top 10-15% is just not true in my experience. In my experience, the people in contention for AOA and who'll set the curves in preclinical classes and get high board scores are generally the same people who set the curves in UG and got high MCAT scores coming into med school. Yes, there will be some fluctuation and some people might not do quite as well as one would think they would, but that's just what I've seen. As far as rotations go, anything goes, I guess.

 

[klmnop]

Does this make more sense?

Yeah thanks, I wasn't aware they factored some in and not others. Maybe the determination as to whether or not they factor them in rests in whether or not that would otherwise accept the student to be exempt of those classes at Gtown upon admission. ie, if GTown-Med says BU's class X is not equivalent to our class Y, but EVMS's class X' is equivalent, maybe they would only factor in the students from BU's class. Thats interesting.

 

[FutureMDer]

Obviously if you're taking a lot of the same classes over (like a GT student who decided to repeat 100% of the classes they took in the SMP) then they'd have some advantage, but different schools have drastically different material presented in 1st year than others. Med schools generally teach about the same curriculum in the preclinical years, but how they structure it in year 1 vs 2 is completely different. Some schools don't have anatomy 1st year at all and teach organ system pathophysiology, others only do normal physiology. Obviously having some experience with the flow of medical school is going to help but the students that are going to be at the top of the class aren't going to have a problem with that anyways.

If you're going to make the argument that students that finished a SMP will do well in med school as far as being above average, maybe I'd buy that, but saying they're necessarily going to finish in the top 10-15% is just not true in my experience. In my experience, the people in contention for AOA and who'll set the curves in preclinical classes and get high board scores are generally the same people who set the curves in UG and got high MCAT scores coming into med school. Yes, there will be some fluctuation and some people might not do quite as well as one would think they would, but that's just what I've seen. As far as rotations go, anything goes, I guess.

True, I should have not made such a bold assumption implying ALL former SMPs from all programs will score that high. But as any medical student and even SMP can agree, the courses that are the easiest are ones that you have already had advanced studies in. I have seen a lot of my friends who are both medical students and SMP students at Georgetown do exceptionally well in a course because they had already seen a majority of the material. Be that as it may, getting an A still depends on how hard you are going to work for the grade. That is why students who were the best in school tend to continue doing that well in medical school. They have an amazing work ethic that most people cannot compete with.

But as you pointed out, it depends on the approach of the medical school and the curriculum of the SMP. For instance, a Georgetown SMP student should do better at another medical school that teach normal physiology in an organ systems approach and might struggle more in a traditional approach, taking classes like biochemistry, physiology, histology etc. where they may not have learned all the material for that section. But in general, most medical schools have a curriculum that focuses on normal physiology year one and pathophysiology year two. With this in mind, most SMP students should have seen most of the M1's material before.

 

[garyinthehouse]

A lot of great discussions going on here. As someone who is going to GTown's SMP, thanks for all the advice. You guys sure are an amazing help.

 

[drizzt3117]

True, I should have not made such a bold assumption implying ALL former SMPs from all programs will score that high. But as any medical student and even SMP can agree, the courses that are the easiest are ones that you have already had advanced studies in. I have seen a lot of my friends who are both medical students and SMP students at Georgetown do exceptionally well in a course because they had already seen a majority of the material. Be that as it may, getting an A still depends on how hard you are going to work for the grade. That is why students who were the best in school tend to continue doing that well in medical school. They have an amazing work ethic that most people cannot compete with.

But as you pointed out, it depends on the approach of the medical school and the curriculum of the SMP. For instance, a Georgetown SMP student should do better at another medical school that teach normal physiology in an organ systems approach and might struggle more in a traditional approach, taking classes like biochemistry, physiology, histology etc. where they may not have learned all the material for that section. But in general, most medical schools have a curriculum that focuses on normal physiology year one and pathophysiology year two. With this in mind, most SMP students should have seen most of the M1's material before.

I dunno about most people but the only class I thought was remotely hard during 1st year was anatomy. In the normal physiology/traditional part of the 1st year, the difference between the top students and the middle of the pack was pretty big. I suppose you can say that seeing the subject material before is going to help you, but a lot of what med schools ask on tests is from THEIR OWN course material, and a good chunk of it is memorization of minutiae.

I think a SMP will do is exactly what it's meant to do. It'll make students that weren't competitive for med school into students that ARE competitive for med school. Once they're in, it's a level playing field to a certain degree. That said, once they're in, although they have a bit more experience with the flow of med school classes, and have learned some information (a lot of which you won't really remember, especially after a summer relaxing/recuperating from the SMP and preparing for med school. If they have another glide year, their recall will be even less. I certainly don't remember everything I learned in 1st year.) I think this experience will help them survive med school (which is the whole point) and maybe even do above average in the classes that they took. Also, perhaps the weeding out process that is a SMP only allows the hardiest SMPers to get acceptances, especially right away. That said, they were in a SMP for a reason, because they had trouble with some aspect of undergrad in the past, for whatever reason, and they'll be competing against people who didn't have any trouble being in the top of their classes. Obviously, some of these people will have a rude awakening once med school starts, but my experience is that cream rises to the top.

This post isn't meant to be discouraging. SMPs do what they're supposed to do quite well. They get people into med school with a fairly high success rate. Once you get in, whatever happens is totally up to you. If you are smart and work harder than other people then you'll do really well.

 

[Haplo]

I can't speak for Tufts or BU, but the GT SMPs who actually get into GT do become some of the top students. I'm not sure about the GT SMPs who go elsewhere, but the 20 who are cherry-picked are poached for a reason.

As for grades, someone above mentioned that all SMPs could theoretically get A's; while true, this will not happen. To clarify the above, former GEMS and SMPs are not factored into the Med-1 mean. Med curves correlate with SMP grades like so: Honors = A, High Pass = A-/B+ (they split it in the middle), Pass = B, Low Pass = B- (something like 2SD below), Fail = F (normally), or C (if SMP director finds your score is very close to low pass).

The hard curve should be: <4SD- = fail, ~4SD- to 2SD - = B-, 2SD- to 0.5SD+ = B, 0.5SD - 0.8SD = B+, 0.8SD - 1.2SD = A-, 1.2SD+ = A. Often, the class (entire, med/gem/smp) will do well percentage-wise on a test; I've heard the rumor, and seen the evidence that typically if you score 90% or above in a class you will get honors/A (this has proved true to this date). They will then adjust the curve below that accordingly.

Hard numbers from the year's classes to date (~SD means I'm estimating):

MCP: A/Honors was 155/172, 90% rule holds. Med mean=144.62. SMP mean=143.15. SD~9. Statistically insignificant difference.
MNE: 191/216 was Honors/A. Low %age, used hard curve. everyone mean=175.35, SD~13. smp/meds assuming performed the same, never differentiated number.
CP: Normalized to a 100pt. scale, 88/100 was Honors/A. Med mean=80, Med SD=6; GEMs mean = 83, GEMs SD = 5; SMP mean = 77, SMP SD = 8. I believe physios were woefully unprepared for gross anat, or at least didn't realize how difficult it would be (i didn't =O).
GI: 137/152 was Honors/A (90% rule). Med Mean=129, Med SD=9; SMP mean=125.2, SMP SD=11.4; GEMs scores not revealed. Hmm, something has happened to the physios in the courses with gross anat, causing a statistically significant difference in means --> who knows?
Renal: 68/75 was Honors/A, 90% rule in effect. Med mean = 66.3, med SD = 4.65. smps probably did the same, no gross. Ridiculously lax curve, b/c 90% rule, and a very high average.

Grad classes:
PNGA: Normalized to 100pt. scale. 90/100 was an A (90% rule). SMP mean=88.8, SD~3. Hard class, simple exam.
MIM: 127/141 was Honors/A, 90% rule. smp mean =119, sd=7.5. Hard class, ridic questions (pure trivia/memorization).
HHN: If you showed up to the exam, and put ink on page, pretty sure you got an A (thanks Dr. Sherman!)
Pathways: A if you did the requirements --> 2 outside activities, 3 worksheets.

So, just remember the 90% Rule, and don't freak out about not knowing how to get an A. I'm showing you the numbers on how to do it; it takes hard work, but knowing the metrics calms me down =) [for Gross Anat, suck it up, sit down with your copy of Gray's and read it. SMPs don't get all the resources meds do for gross]

 

[garyinthehouse]

I can't speak for Tufts or BU, but the GT SMPs who actually get into GT do become some of the top students. I'm not sure about the GT SMPs who go elsewhere, but the 20 who are cherry-picked are poached for a reason.

As for grades, someone above mentioned that all SMPs could theoretically get A's; while true, this will not happen. To clarify the above, former GEMS and SMPs are not factored into the Med-1 mean. Med curves correlate with SMP grades like so: Honors = A, High Pass = A-/B+ (they split it in the middle), Pass = B, Low Pass = B- (something like 2SD below), Fail = F (normally), or C (if SMP director finds your score is very close to low pass).

The hard curve should be: <4SD- = fail, ~4SD- to 2SD - = B-, 2SD- to 0.5SD+ = B, 0.5SD - 0.8SD = B+, 0.8SD - 1.2SD = A-, 1.2SD+ = A. Often, the class (entire, med/gem/smp) will do well percentage-wise on a test; I've heard the rumor, and seen the evidence that typically if you score 90% or above in a class you will get honors/A (this has proved true to this date). They will then adjust the curve below that accordingly.

Hard numbers from the year's classes to date (~SD means I'm estimating):

MCP: A/Honors was 155/172, 90% rule holds. Med mean=144.62. SMP mean=143.15. SD~9. Statistically insignificant difference.
MNE: 191/216 was Honors/A. Low %age, used hard curve. everyone mean=175.35, SD~13. smp/meds assuming performed the same, never differentiated number.
CP: Normalized to a 100pt. scale, 88/100 was Honors/A. Med mean=80, Med SD=6; GEMs mean = 83, GEMs SD = 5; SMP mean = 77, SMP SD = 8. I believe physios were woefully unprepared for gross anat, or at least didn't realize how difficult it would be (i didn't =O).
GI: 137/152 was Honors/A (90% rule). Med Mean=129, Med SD=9; SMP mean=125.2, SMP SD=11.4; GEMs scores not revealed. Hmm, something has happened to the physios in the courses with gross anat, causing a statistically significant difference in means --> who knows?
Renal: 68/75 was Honors/A, 90% rule in effect. Med mean = 66.3, med SD = 4.65. smps probably did the same, no gross. Ridiculously lax curve, b/c 90% rule, and a very high average.

Grad classes:
PNGA: Normalized to 100pt. scale. 90/100 was an A (90% rule). SMP mean=88.8, SD~3. Hard class, simple exam.
MIM: 127/141 was Honors/A, 90% rule. smp mean =119, sd=7.5. Hard class, ridic questions (pure trivia/memorization).
HHN: If you showed up to the exam, and put ink on page, pretty sure you got an A (thanks Dr. Sherman!)
Pathways: A if you did the requirements --> 2 outside activities, 3 worksheets.

So, just remember the 90% Rule, and don't freak out about not knowing how to get an A. I'm showing you the numbers on how to do it; it takes hard work, but knowing the metrics calms me down =) [for Gross Anat, suck it up, sit down with your copy of Gray's and read it. SMPs don't get all the resources meds do for gross]

Haplo, thanks for these numbers. So, on average, score ~1SD above the med mean to get an A-
This ain't no walk in the park!

 

[Haplo]

lol, I was trying to relax you by showing actual data.

Just think of your grade as independent of anyone else but yourself, curves, means, who cares. You know you need 90%, and that will get you an A.

Study, do practice tests and board style questions until you can hit this mark, and you will know you are fine. How the class performs is irrelevant in this case.

 

[GoBears1987]

lol, I was trying to relax you by showing actual data.

Just think of your grade as independent of anyone else but yourself, curves, means, who cares. You know you need 90%, and that will get you an A.

Study, do practice tests and board style questions until you can hit this mark, and you will know you are fine. How the class performs is irrelevant in this case.

For the board style questions, did you buy a study guide to get those? Which books would you recommend to buy?

And as for the classes, are you tested mostly on lecture and syllabus or is anything fair game (ie. stuff from textbooks)?

 

[tay33]

lol, I was trying to relax you by showing actual data.

Just think of your grade as independent of anyone else but yourself, curves, means, who cares. You know you need 90%, and that will get you an A.

Study, do practice tests and board style questions until you can hit this mark, and you will know you are fine. How the class performs is irrelevant in this case.

Thanks for the info Haplo! That is very comforting to know. 90% for an A is a more generous curve than some of the undergrad classes I took. A's sound very attainable if you put in the effort.

 

[Haplo]

They'll tell you anything from the text is fair game, but honestly, if you basically know everything from the lecture audio/powerpoint, you should be able to perfect everything (except gross anat) if you have good logic skills; however, I mean every throw-away detail they say, so just re-listen and take good notes. They have textbook-like syllabi they print out for us, but that you can use more as a written form to clarify what they say.

I can think of only 3 exceptions off the top of my head:
(1) Dr. Rosen cell bio stuff from MCP first exam - must know every last detail of this guy's syllabus, and he'll still find something to ask he never taught. Hopefully, all you molec cell bio majors will use your outside knowledge to pull it off; but he only had 3/38 lectures, so wotev.

(2) Dr. Maric in immuno test for MIM. She asked 5 questions (on 66 question test) about a small table she told us we didn't have to know. I'm still raged lmao.

(3) Fungus prof for micro test for MIM. Lectured about 3 fungal infections, and then asked questions about other things. I'm still not even sure what his deal is. Stuff like knowing which fungal pathogen is encapsulated. I think in MIM they honestly just took questions from the 2nd year Meds test, and forgot they never taught us that stuff. bleh.

Test prep: -everything pre-December all you really have is the compiled old exams
-in the systems classes, can use step 1 review books for questions (i.e. BRS physiology, BRS gross, Mulroney and Myers Physiology, Vander's renal, etc). you can just go use the one's in the library

 

[tay33]

Haplo,

Just to clarify, were you in the program before they implemented the integrated curriculum? I noticed they added gross anatomy. Seems like this class might alleviate some of the difficulties SMPers had with the anatomy components of the classes you mentioned.

Can anyone at GT provide their opinion on the integrated curriculum? Do you think it makes learning the material "easier" in that your able to build connections between the hard science and clinical medicine?

 

[drizzt3117]

90% is lower for an A then 94+ but, keep in mind it is not always easy to get such. Just a thought. there is so much material thrown at you its not even funny.

LOL we wish 90% got you an A at our school. The means in every class are like 92%. I'd rather the class be hard and not leave things up to random chance with a few questions that are totally judgment calls.

 

[tay33]

LOL we wish 90% got you an A at our school. The means in every class are like 92%. I'd rather the class be hard and not leave things up to random chance with a few questions that are totally judgment calls.

I think this was my main concern. When the class average is high and the STDev is small, there is very little room for error on exams because the grade cutoffs are much tighter. That's why I personally consider the 90% for an A comforting. Just study your ass off and you don't really have to worry about the curve or beating your fellow classmates.

 

[Haplo]

All med schools aren't standarized. 90% is not easy. The average is usually 82-84%. All questions aren't just board-style, there's clinical correlates etc you have to study for.

To the above poster, I'm in the smp at this very moment (procrastinating while writing a paper). Integrated curriculum is good overall, but there are problems. Embryology, to me, is really hard to learn with just 1-2 lectures on it every class or so. It's a subject I feel would make more sense linearly. Also, sometimes you feel like they bounce around a lot, going straight from a physiology lecture to a histology lecture on the same day, for example. It also doesn't completely abrogate the problems of having to recall stuff you learned 6 mos ago (they taught us fertilization/development in August, and now I need to know it for SDR in March).

On the whole, integrated feels like it makes more intuitive sense than old-school.

You start gross anatomy with the first systems class, Cardiopulmonary. It's also part of Gastrointestinal, and Sexual Dev & Repro. We don't take the other 2 gross classes with the meds (limbs, head & neck). Before integrated, I believe the physios did better on gross than the meds, but it's switched w/ the new curriculum. My personal opinion is that the meds can cram a lot more efficiently than smps. You test every 2-3 weeks meds do better (current integrated), test every few months smps do better (oldschool).

 

[tay33]

You start gross anatomy with the first systems class, Cardiopulmonary. It's also part of Gastrointestinal, and Sexual Dev & Repro. We don't take the other 2 gross classes with the meds (limbs, head & neck). Before integrated, I believe the physios did better on gross than the meds, but it's switched w/ the new curriculum. My personal opinion is that the meds can cram a lot more efficiently than smps. You test every 2-3 weeks meds do better (current integrated), test every few months smps do better (oldschool).

Interesting observations...I wonder why that is. Do you think SMPers tend to have more difficulty integrating concepts than the meds? Or is it difficulty adapting to rapid-fire testing, i.e. getting burnt out after so many tests?

 

[drizzt3117]

The problem with grading is just that when test averages are high, there's little separation between people, even if you're way better than people, the most you can get is 100%. There were classes at our school with test averages above 95%, so you could only get one wrong on a 60 item test to get an A. I'd much rather have the averages in the mid 80s or below so you have room for differentiation.

 

[tay33]

The problem with grading is just that when test averages are high, there's little separation between people, even if you're way better than people, the most you can get is 100%. There were classes at our school with test averages above 95%, so you could only get one wrong on a 60 item test to get an A. I'd much rather have the averages in the mid 80s or below so you have room for differentiation.

Agreed. My problem with absolute curves is that you can theoretically earn 95% of the points possible and still earn a B if the average is high enough. I realize med school is probably different but in UG if you received 90% of the points you at least earned an A-. Differentiation for the sake of differentiation is dumb. If the average is high it's because students either mastered the material or the professor made the exam too easy. You shouldn't be "penalized" with a B if you score a 95%.

 

[cupnoodles]

Question for all you seasoned veterans!
I just got the email saying my app was complete and under review. Sometime between submitting my app and now I've realized that I really must take the MCAT again if I want real consideration. Both my GPA and MCAT are at the very low end of what they consider - at this point, my MCAT is the only thing I can do something about (and I really do believe I can do something about it). I want to let them know I'm going to retake, so they know that the possibility is out there for me to have a better MCAT and maybe put me on the Waitlist and not the Reject pile. Now that I'm under review is it too late? Should I send a brief letter mentioning my plan to retake with details (end of April)? Or, given the interest of time (knowing that the turn-around time can be as low as 2 weeks), should I email? If so, should it be Ms. Cabiness, or should I return the "under review" email with the info? should I call?
Sorry, I know it's a little bit obsessive for me to worry I'm just paranoid about doing the right thing and not being a PITA for them.

Thanks for your advice!!

 

[cupnoodles]

Thanks for the quick response! It's really heartening to hear that someone else made it through that way. I've just got to set my eyes on a score like that!
So you'd say there's no use in sending that letter now, to try to avoid that outright rejection? They may not accept anything new to the app while under review?
I just worry that once rejected, making it back onto the wait list will be that much less likely (than squeaking onto the waitlist during my review period).

 

[mic2377]

As for the academic success of past SMP'ers, I can state that the people who get accepted same year at UC tend to do really, really well. It is no secret that these MS programs definitely skim the top off of their class. I know for a fact that many of former MS students are small group leaders and ranked in the top 10% of class.

A big factor in this is that the reason students need to do an SMP vary widely. Some people actually had some serious academic difficulty or are very challenged by the curriculum, whereas others are very intelligent and didn't get good grades for other reasons. The people who do really well are those that are intelligent but have now got their stuff together, and are obviously highly motivated.

 

[ewillia8]

Hey everybody, I am under review as well. I submitted 2/10, was complete 3/1 and got the review e-mail yesterday. I have a 33N, 3.4 overall, 3.1 BCPM from a top 20 school and am finishing up my MPH in Health Policy in D.C. I actually got into the program right out of undergrad off the waitlist at the end of July (I applied on the deadline though so that didn't help) but by that time I was already set on the MPH. Good luck to everybody, I'm hoping this comes through again, this med school app process is probably the worst thing ever invented.

 

[Haplo]

Just so you guys are aware,ms. Cabbiness handles the CAM program now, and hasn't done SMP stuff since august 2009. Andrew Holcomb is pretty much the doing the admin stuff right now, and someone else will probably take over in the summer. Don't address your updates to the wrong program! I'd ask on the physio yahoo msgboard to find the best source.

 

[senshi25]

I just found out about this program, and considering to apply around March/April. Do I still have a chance in getting accepted?

My MCAT score isn't competitive, and I plan to retake it around June/July. Should I also note that in my application too?

 

[Nafis64]

Accepted into the program last week!! Excited, but now that I finally got interviews to a few schools i hope i can turn those into acceptances. I am going to GWU at the end of march, is there a way to visit and check out the program or something?

 

[ewillia8]

Congratulations, good luck with those interviews. I'm hoping you get in so your spot opens up for the rest of us!

 

[Medimed]

I am almost done with my application, and I was wondering if there are supposed to a section where I can put my GRE score or intended MCAT date?

Also, if my i submit my application with my official transcript/rec/GRE will my application be considered complete/reviewed(and at least waitlisted if everything goes well) or incomplete until my MCAT score arrives (April). I hope they will review my apps even w/o MCAT

THANKS!!!!

 

[FutureMDer]

I just found out about this program, and considering to apply around March/April. Do I still have a chance in getting accepted?

My MCAT score isn't competitive, and I plan to retake it around June/July. Should I also note that in my application too?

Yes. I got into the program and I literally turned my application in the last day. However, it's hard to say if you should wait that long depending on your MCAT score. I cannot name a person in this program who had an MCAT score lower than 30 (sure they are out there, but they choose to stay silent). They also strongly look at your GPA, where you went to school (ex. if you went to a school that down curves grades) and extra curricular activities. If you are uncertain it is always best to call. The faculty are really good at giving you advice and I would trust their word over any of ours.

 

[MrBigglesworth]

x

 

[BuckFMP]

I am currently in the program and skimmed through this thread.

Real quick: I got in with about a 3.3 and 29. I am also from a ****ty state school.. however I was waitlisted at a MD school and I think that is how I got in.

Do not think that you will come in and get straight A's, because that is impossible. You can get some A's but it's damn hard

Good thing about this program is that I am confident that I will destroy first year in any med school I go to.

Bad thing: I think the program exaggerates its success of getting people into schools. I believe a lot of people in this program do not 'need' to be in this program, they simply applied late/California. It is those people that get in during the year. The others get in the following cycle.

Also, I would recommend going to a linkage program like Cincinnati.

Good insight. Thanks! How's your app process going?

 

[Haplo]

I am currently in the program and skimmed through this thread.

Real quick: I got in with about a 3.3 and 29. I am also from a ****ty state school.. however I was waitlisted at a MD school and I think that is how I got in.

Do not think that you will come in and get straight A's, because that is impossible. You can get some A's but it's damn hard

Good thing about this program is that I am confident that I will destroy first year in any med school I go to.

Bad thing: I think the program exaggerates its success of getting people into schools. I believe a lot of people in this program do not 'need' to be in this program, they simply applied late/California. It is those people that get in during the year. The others get in the following cycle.

Also, I would recommend going to a linkage program like Cincinnati.

amen/agreed to all. I would have done tulane acp if I had qualified.

N.B. There may be 2-3 people who have straight A's - some of the Cali's who sit in Dahlgren all day, every day.

 

[klmnop]

I am currently in the program and skimmed through this thread.

Real quick: I got in with about a 3.3 and 29. I am also from a ****ty state school.. however I was waitlisted at a MD school and I think that is how I got in.

Do not think that you will come in and get straight A's, because that is impossible. You can get some A's but it's damn hard

Good thing about this program is that I am confident that I will destroy first year in any med school I go to.

Bad thing: I think the program exaggerates its success of getting people into schools. I believe a lot of people in this program do not 'need' to be in this program, they simply applied late/California. It is those people that get in during the year. The others get in the following cycle.

Also, I would recommend going to a linkage program like Cincinnati.

Your comment makes it seem like you or many people you know haven't had success with your MD applications in this program. Is this true or are you just wishing you had more of a guarantee for an arguably lighter courseload.

 

[ltw902]

Your comment makes it seem like you or many people you know haven't had success with your MD applications in this program. Is this true or are you just wishing you had more of a guarantee for an arguably lighter courseload.

From what I've experienced so far (I'm a current SMPer), people do get interviews, but some do not, as well. Just the "Georgetown" name does not automatically get you an interview to medical schools. Trust me, I witnessed it first-hand this year.

Georgetown - SMP is an extremely difficult program. This program is intended for people that don't have anything else to try. If you have no other options, then this may be your only bet (be prepared to spend a whole lotta dough on this program). However, if you just graduated (from your undergrad school) and haven't done a "normal" masters somewhere, please try that before doing the SMP, as that is my number one regret. I came here thinking that the "Georgetown" name would get me interviews to schools, but I ended up with zero.

Good luck to you all, especially those doing the SMP next year!

 

[klmnop]

From what I've experienced so far (I'm a current SMPer), people do get interviews, but some do not, as well. Just the "Georgetown" name does not automatically get you an interview to medical schools. Trust me, I witnessed it first-hand this year.

Georgetown - SMP is an extremely difficult program. This program is intended for people that don't have anything else to try. If you have no other options, then this may be your only bet (be prepared to spend a whole lotta dough on this program). However, if you just graduated (from your undergrad school) and haven't done a "normal" masters somewhere, please try that before doing the SMP, as that is my number one regret. I came here thinking that the "Georgetown" name would get me interviews to schools, but I ended up with zero.

Good luck to you all, especially those doing the SMP next year!

If you don't mind, how have you fared numbers-wise in the program, and what was your info coming in. Obviously it doesn't work for everyone, but the reasons or varied and the fact that it works for many still seems promising. The only thing I would disagree with is while a research masters may be beneficial, it is silly to spend 2-3 years doing something you have lesser interest in then potentially proving yourself in a medical school setting with arguably more promise. Personally, and obviously you would disagree, I would be significantly less interested and motivated in a research-based masters program than in an SMP, only because an SMP is a step toward what I want to do, MD, whereas a Masters is a step toward a career laboratory research. I liken it to playing the entire season as a kicker, with the hopes of playing quarterback in the superbowl.

As a point of curiosity, what do you plan to do now that you have yet to be interviewed with this program. Do you believe you will have greater success applying with the entire program complete?

 

[sdausuzhe]

I am in that program. I can give feedback in a little while (perhaps in May when I know where I end up next year).

 

[The3rdConchord]

From what I've experienced so far (I'm a current SMPer), people do get interviews, but some do not, as well. Just the "Georgetown" name does not automatically get you an interview to medical schools. Trust me, I witnessed it first-hand this year.

Georgetown - SMP is an extremely difficult program. This program is intended for people that don't have anything else to try. If you have no other options, then this may be your only bet (be prepared to spend a whole lotta dough on this program). However, if you just graduated (from your undergrad school) and haven't done a "normal" masters somewhere, please try that before doing the SMP, as that is my number one regret. I came here thinking that the "Georgetown" name would get me interviews to schools, but I ended up with zero.

Good luck to you all, especially those doing the SMP next year!

Did you apply to medical schools before matriculating into the SMP? If so, did you interview at any medical schools and then pursue post-interview feedback from those medical schools?

 

[The3rdConchord]

I am in that program. I can give feedback in a little while (perhaps in May when I know where I end up next year).

i was at a medical school interview in Cincinnati last month and a current GTown SMP student was in my interview group that day. I asked the SMP student how often the SMPers receive med school interviews early during the application cycle. This student told me that the large majority of SMPers have interviews late in the application cycle due to admissions committees awaiting first semester GPAs and LORs from their individual advisors at GTown. Has this also been your experience?

 

[ltw902]

If you don't mind, how have you fared numbers-wise in the program, and what was your info coming in. Obviously it doesn't work for everyone, but the reasons or varied and the fact that it works for many still seems promising. The only thing I would disagree with is while a research masters may be beneficial, it is silly to spend 2-3 years doing something you have lesser interest in then potentially proving yourself in a medical school setting with arguably more promise. Personally, and obviously you would disagree, I would be significantly less interested and motivated in a research-based masters program than in an SMP, only because an SMP is a step toward what I want to do, MD, whereas a Masters is a step toward a career laboratory research. I liken it to playing the entire season as a kicker, with the hopes of playing quarterback in the superbowl.

As a point of curiosity, what do you plan to do now that you have yet to be interviewed with this program. Do you believe you will have greater success applying with the entire program complete?

Late July/early August, I would've agreed with your statement that I would much rather do this than go into a 2-3 year research program because it would not only be a step towards an MD but it would happen 1-2 years quicker. However, things just didn't work out for me this year.

Numbers-wise coming into the program, 3.4/30R from a top 5 public university (not based in Cali which would narrow it down to 2 schools so I'll let you ponder that one). So far in this program, I'm only doing average because of the difficulty of the program. Don't get me wrong, people do extremely well in this program. It just depends on how much motivation you initially have so that it can carry you throughout the entire year. Unfortunately for me, I was rejected pre-secondary from a school that waitlisted me last year mid-September. Lost a lot of my motivation after that day.

As for applying, I won't be applying because I decided to attend a great DO school near my home. Becoming a doctor is my first goal regardless of the type of degree (MD/DO).

If you plan on doing SMP, all I can say is good luck and enjoy the ride because although the coursework is extremely heavy and, at time, overwhelming, you do meet a lot of awesome people here.

 

[ltw902]

Did you apply to medical schools before matriculating into the SMP? If so, did you interview at any medical schools and then pursue post-interview feedback from those medical schools?

Last year, I only applied to my state schools (3 in total) and got interviewed/waitlisted from one of them. When I had a phone conference with one of the adcoms for feedback on my application, all they said was my GPA was a bit low compared to the rest of the students and that getting a 3.5+ at a graduate program would be beneficial. That was about it.

 

[Haplo]

T