Folks applying to UQ Med for 2009 entry

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$10k makes me nervous, $1200 sounds much better to me
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I'm really glad I pointed this out.

My intentions have been to go to school in Brisbane this whole time but I don't think I'll be able to come up with $10,000 by June and I'm not even comfortable with that. It does sound oddly like a Caribbean med school which is strange because this is a 'big eight' school and ranked among the top in the world.

Perhaps we are misinterpreting what they are asking for and someone should clarify. Someone, of course, who has been given an offer so far as they haven't reviewed my app yet.
 
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Hey Neulite,
I'm not sure how it works in the US but I THINK in Canada you can get a line of credit and that should be approved by the June deadline in time to pay for the deposit. Not 100% sure on this and I really have no clue how it would work in the US, I would talk to the main banks that fund med students.

By the way...how many of you guys applied in March???? I'm so worried so many people applied WAY before me:S
 
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rugbyMD said:
Hey Neulite,
I'm not sure how it works in the US but I THINK in Canada you can get a line of credit and that should be approved by the June deadline in time to pay for the deposit. Not 100% sure on this and I really have no clue how it would work in the US, I would talk to the main banks that fund med students.

By the way...how many of you guys applied in March???? I'm so worried so many people applied WAY before me:S
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Yeah, I guess getting the money is less of a problem than the fact that they are requiring us to pay SO MUCH so quickly. It's odd to me. But of course I will wait to hear from the school and continue to use this forum as an outlet for my frustrations haha.
 
If it makes you feel any better, i applied in March but only got my transcripts in by April 24th, so that is the date of my application. Good luck!!

rugbyMD said:
Hey Neulite,
I'm not sure how it works in the US but I THINK in Canada you can get a line of credit and that should be approved by the June deadline in time to pay for the deposit. Not 100% sure on this and I really have no clue how it would work in the US, I would talk to the main banks that fund med students.

By the way...how many of you guys applied in March???? I'm so worried so many people applied WAY before me:S
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It is interesting to see how much UQ's application procedure has changed this year. UQ wants a $10 000 deposit?! Wow, I don't blame you guys being :eek:. But at the end of the day I would interpret it as UQ wanting their applicants to unquestionably commit to the program. After all the $10 000 will only be put towards ones tuition, no? Most med students will end up paying this and more at the end of the day.

But I do totally see why this steep figure being so rapidly due is a complicating factor.
 
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UQ never asked for such a massive deposit before, and to me that should raise alarm bells. Almost every respectable Australian medical school never asks its students for such a large amount of money up front. I was accepted to UQ in 2005, and never even had to pay my first month's tuition until well into the first semester. This is very fishy.

Asking a student to send $10,000 AUD is very sketchy, only UOW up until now makes it international students give a deposit.

UOW does not even qualify for student loans from the US.
 
actually, i paid ~$9500 deposit for uq last year. ~$1200 is for 4-year insurance, rest is deposit.

and i just pay the remaining tuition balance in feb
 
hi will, do you know if the deposit if refundable?
 
shan564 said:
Well, 3.4/4.5 is probably good enough to meet the cutoff. 28Q will be pretty close to the borderline... you should probably ask Matt what he thinks. If he has your application materials by Monday, then that's probably early enough.
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Just to put in my two cents to help some people out:

I just got my unconditional offer in the mail, and I have *exactly* a 2.67/4.00 GPA (whatever, I'll take it. I have an Electrical Engineering degree at a hard school). My MCAT was 38N though, so I'm assuming that helped me out a bit.
 
JoeNamaMD said:
UQ never asked for such a massive deposit before, and to me that should raise alarm bells. Almost every respectable Australian medical school never asks its students for such a large amount of money up front. I was accepted to UQ in 2005, and never even had to pay my first month's tuition until well into the first semester. This is very fishy.

Asking a student to send $10,000 AUD is very sketchy, only UOW up until now makes it international students give a deposit.

UOW does not even qualify for student loans from the US.
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In my mind, not sketchy at all. International students are flaky, I'm sure a considerable amount of students accept and then don't come. I'm surprised they haven't been doing that for a long time.
 
We'll never know, I guess ;)
But I know it's been mentioned on these forums before, and I believe someone got word from Matt at OzTREKK that they're willing to have that sort of leeway.
 
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38 is an exceptional MCAT score, I am sure it made up for the poor GPA, even if it was EE, a 2.67 is low GPA. My roommate was an EE major and graduated with a 3.1. I was a double major in Chemistry and Math, 3.6 GPA and an MCAT in the low 30s. Even with this profile I did not get into US allopathic schools, they hated the fact I was working in a business related field for such a long time.
 
Thanks JoeNama for the compliment :) I was definitely happy with my score. I wasn't trying to make excuses about grades, just explaining that I could've done a lot better in general Science, but it's nice to have the engineering to fall back on.
 
UQ never asked for such a massive deposit before, and to me that should raise alarm bells. Almost every respectable Australian medical school never asks its students for such a large amount of money up front. I was accepted to UQ in 2005, and never even had to pay my first month's tuition until well into the first semester. This is very fishy.

Asking a student to send $10,000 AUD is very sketchy, only UOW up until now makes it international students give a deposit.

UOW does not even qualify for student loans from the US.
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Deposits for med school are a unique concept in your mind???? How else do you guarantee students are enrolled in a program? You wait until they show up to fork over the full tuition payment right before classes start?

I think it is totally reasonable for a school to want a deposit. With many going to international schools and also applying at home there must be a high attrition rate before classes start. A deposit simply is a measure of commitment to a program. This commitment I imagine would be required in order to finalize class lists. Now, Queensland's $10,000 is simply a very grand measure of ones commitment. I suspect the deposit also serves as a way to indicate if one has the ability to come up with large sums of moola. This is of course a prereq for any international student. However, with this said I sympathize with those who find it troubling parting with such funds so far in advance of starting classes at UQ.

I am not sure what this discussion has to do with UOW and the fact that it is a newer school. I know that Bond asks for deposits, UQ has asked for deposits. Based on this I doubt these schools are alone in this practice.. The financial aide issue you mention is also strictly an American student loan issue with the loan program being slow recognizing new med schools regardless of national origin. Then again, med students I know are generally mostly funded via non-public sources. I am kinda puzzled at what you were shooting at here. ;)
 
On a side note is anyone else having trouble loading up the UQ extranet website?
 
Yes! It's preventing my obsessive application status checking and i'm not happy. :laugh:

rugbyMD said:
On a side note is anyone else having trouble loading up the UQ extranet website?
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Coccinelle said:
Yes! It's preventing my obsessive application status checking and i'm not happy. :laugh:
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Haha I'm right there with you guys. I emailed OzTrekk and they fixed it briefly but it messed up again. Matt is out of town this week. I am checking that thing like 10 times a day now haha.
 
Right with you guys, good to hear I'm not the only one freaking out about this!
 
i'm sure most of you would have heard that canhelp isn't giving out loans anymore without a us co-signer for canadian students. i'm doubtful that canadian banks would give out enough to fund the entire education in aussie. i'm just wondering if any canadian students know any other way to get the loans?
 
I'm also wondering about the loan situation. I won't have any parents helping me or anything so I will have to rely on loans.

Zuck
 
I was just planning on getting loans from a private bank. It'll be a little more expensive than federal loans, but we'll be able to pay it off comfortably when we're doctors (at least that's what most doctors tell me).
 
Zuckman said:
I'm also wondering about the loan situation. I won't have any parents helping me or anything so I will have to rely on loans.

Zuck
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Contrary to what many might think, OSAP will give you a loan. It will be a drop in the bucket at about $8000 a year but it is still something. It could cover flights and stuff like texts and health insurance, visa etc.

Canadian Med Student line oF credit = $150,000 with cosigner
OSAP = ~$30, 000 total over 4 years

Your now approaching $200,000, yet additional sources of funds (~$40,000) will probably still be required in the laster years even if one obtains funds via these sources. For me it is my family.
 
Ya, I'll try for OSAP. However, the LOC will be hard since I need a cosigner and I don't know anyone who will cosign for me. Does anyone know of any loans without a cosigner?

I've looked throughout the forums for this info, but things seem to have changed over the years. Some years, many people got loans with no cosigners from RBC and other years RBC wouldn't give loans without a cosigner. In fact, some people had trouble getting a loan from RBC even with a cosigner.

Zuck
 
Zuckman said:
Ya, I'll try for OSAP. However, the LOC will be hard since I need a cosigner and I don't know anyone who will cosign for me. Does anyone know of any loans without a cosigner?

I've looked throughout the forums for this info, but things seem to have changed over the years. Some years, many people got loans with no cosigners from RBC and other years RBC wouldn't give loans without a cosigner. In fact, some people had trouble getting a loan from RBC even with a cosigner.

Zuck
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Yeah, the strength of the cosigner plays an important role. It comes down to the assets of the cosigner. If they they have few assets and cannot cover the full LOC you might run into probs.
 
Hmm...I'm gonna have to find some way to pay...hmm

EWC...concerning CanHELP, I've never heard of that before. I've heard that people should avoid CanHELP like the plague. But I guess there's no choice sometimes...

Zuck
 
Did you try talking to your bank or the local credit union?
 
when doing your budget, remember to account for 1) rising value of AUD, 2) inflation

the AUD is overvalued, but no one knows when it'll come down.... maybe not in several years.... and in the mean time, it keeps going up.

food, rent are costing more these days. your tuition will increase every year as well

best of luck.
 
well, here's the thing... some people do have problems even getting co-signers etc. so the only option would've been canhelp. sometimes the interest rate is high, but folks need money. but on the other hand, without a co-signer the "used to be" canhelp amounts wouldn't have been enough... i'm not in this situation, but i know someone who is... i mean the tuition alone is about 160000 CAD in australia, probably 320000 CAD in ireland... this is more than the 150000 CAD most banks give, and from what i understand, you can only get one LOC now... just thought if anyone would have any ideas on how others get around this without the "don't apply if you couldn't get money in the first place" type of response which is counterproductive... probably would help others
 
I just got the following reply from a UQ financial person:

Dear Shan,

Thank you for your email.

I am pleased to confirm that provided you withdraw prior to the Semester Census Date, you are entitled to a refund of your deposit. Please note that if you utilise any UQ services, such as airport or accommodation services, and then decide to withdraw, you will be charged a $1,000 administrative fee.


For more information on this, please refer to the attached document which explains it in more detail.

Please contact me on 3365-2328 or by reply email if you require any further assistance.

Regards,


Dax Fiddes │Client Service Officer, Student Financials
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So, it looks like we can get our deposits back... I guess they just want to make sure that we're able to come up with the tuition money before they sponsor us for a student visa.
 
that's amazing shan! thanks for the info... puts to rest the diploma mill idea
 
Its nice to hear that they are willing to refund your deposit.
 
I guess that puts to rest the idea that they are relaxing standards of admission.
 
Hi,

I slipped up the first time on the interviews, i didn't know what to expect and didn't do enough research into it. The interviews are really important. So i got some coaching. I suggest people who may not be confident in this field do it. i got in the second time.
 
Kinda confused by the intention of the above poster, since the message is a copy of his post on another thread.
 
ewc said:
that's amazing shan! thanks for the info... puts to rest the diploma mill idea
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not my sentiment. while i feel its a legit school, it's an insanely large class size being 33% larger than the largest of any US school. and the difference is from the enormous international student quota, which is how Aus schools pump in money.
 
jaketheory said:
not my sentiment. while i feel its a legit school, it's an insanely large class size being 33% larger than the largest of any US school. and the difference is from the enormous international student quota, which is how Aus schools pump in money.
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That still doesn't make them a "diploma mill".
 
So what is your sentiment on UQ, Jake?? I really doubt you can call it a diploma mill. According to the UK Times Higher Education supplement, UQ along with Sydney is one of the highest ranked medical schools on the planet. If I am not mistaken some other schools have actually cut their international places, Sydney I believe is one of them.
 
Yeah, sydney is def. not a diploma mill. they didn't help the very few of us who wanted to come to the states with our boards or anything like that. nothing like the carib. sure, they make more money off international students than locals, and they've raised their prices for international students A LOT (a deterrent if anything), but the percentage of local students is still really high and you do most of you clinicals in your local hospital. really nothing like a diploma mill, but of course i'm biased, seeing as how that would make my diploma of the 'milled' origin.
 
A diploma mill is a place where it's easy to get your degree. Some schools will give you a degree without actually learning anything... the Australian schools, on the other hand, are sanctioned by Parliament. The "big 4" Carib schools aren't even diploma mills... it's actually hard to graduate from those places. Diploma mills are those schools that offer PhD's to everybody who wants to write a thesis.
 
Well, it seems to me that all Australian med schools are largely equivalent in their training. Sure there will be minor differences, but they are largely similar. Just like all Canadian med schools are quite equivalent. To say one Oz med school is a 'diploma mill' would mean they all are. I'm laughing my ass off at this 'diploma mill' assertion :laugh:

Yes, UQ is taking huge numbers of internationals. This is a smart way for them to take in cash and use all their resources fully. If they can accomodate us, why wouldn't they?

Zuck
 
Actually a Diploma Mill is where it is easy to get in but usually hard to stay.
 
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/hybrid.asp?typeCode=147

Check this out, the Times Higher Education Supplement has a list of the top 50 Biomedicine Universities in the world. UQ is among them, its ranked with institutions like Oxford, Hopkins and, Harvard. This puts to rest the idea that UQ is some second class diploma mill.
 
JoeNamaMD said:
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/hybrid.asp?typeCode=147

Check this out, the Times Higher Education Supplement has a list of the top 50 Biomedicine Universities in the world. UQ is among them, its ranked with institutions like Oxford, Hopkins and, Harvard. This puts to rest the idea that UQ is some second class diploma mill.
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that's right, it is of the first class variety!

those rankings are not medicine and you cannot confidently assume they equate to medicine. some of the institutions on that list dont even have medical schools.

seriously though, i never meant it was a diploma mill in a strict meaning of the term. hell, i wasnt even the one that originally claimed any of these schools were mills; i simply went along with it. devil's advocate anyone? but if you consider the caribean schools mills, you'd have to say the same for the aus schools taking international students. you guys do know your tuition is paying for locals to attend as well dont you? i would not be too happy to pay boat loads of money so that others could go to school in addition to myself.


shan564 said:
A diploma mill is a place where it's easy to get your degree.
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one of the hardest parts of getting a medical degree is getting into medical school. obviously people are going to australia cuz its easier for them to get in there (that is, they actually can get in).
 
I don't consider the Caribbean schools "mills". The word "diploma mill" implies that their primary business is manufacturing diplomas, just like a "steel mill" manufactures steel. That's why they call them "diploma mills". Major international research universities (sanctioned by Parliament, at that) are not diploma mills.

The reason why "one of the hardest parts of getting a medical degree is getting into medical school" is because med schools usually only accept students who are of high enough caliber so that med school won't be too hard for them. I honestly don't think it matters where you went to school as long as you went through a strenuous curriculum and learned enough to score well on the boards.

I don't see what's wrong with a med school that has lax admissions standards. Most US public universities (not med schools) accept 90% of applicants, but that doesn't make them "mills". Just because it's easy to get in doesn't mean that you don't learn as much.
 
shan564 said:
The reason why "one of the hardest parts of getting a medical degree is getting into medical school" is because med schools usually only accept students who are of high enough caliber so that med school won't be too hard for them. I honestly don't think it matters where you went to school as long as you went through a strenuous curriculum and learned enough to score well on the boards.
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this is a contradiction. if it did not matter where you went to school, it would not necessitate qualifiers (eg. "as long as..."). and from what i've heard, a considerable number of people fail out of the caribean schools (or repeat years) and that does not even concern how they do on boards.

shan564 said:
I don't see what's wrong with a med school that has lax admissions standards. Most US public universities (not med schools) accept 90% of applicants, but that doesn't make them "mills". Just because it's easy to get in doesn't mean that you don't learn as much.
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there is a great problem with a school having lax admissions. training doctors is incredibly resource intensive. their training is an investment, and to get returns on that investment they must become competent doctors. stringent admissions criteria is the only way to discriminate between applicants potential to become succesfull doctors. school's reputations are also at stake. the better doctors they produce, the better their reputations become, the easier it is for them to attract internationally acclaimed faculty, the more knowledge they produce, the more funding they receive. . . caribean schools circumvent this by being for profit. their returns are in cold, hard cash. US MD schools are forbidden to be for profit by the AMA. Most Aus schools charge international tuition in excess of the cost to train students and this excess is used to subsidize local students if not other things as well.

90% is not accurate. where do you get your info? start here http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/.

even if it was 100% it would say nothing about the standards of admissions because it fails to account for self selection. and there really are no MD schools in the US that are 'easy' to get in. of course thats entirely subjective (and thus useless). i've met college graduates that felt anyone with a high school diploma was smart.

if there were US schools that were easy to get into you probably would be posting in the "US schools that are easy to get into" forum instead of here. the vast majority of american students in aus wouldnt be there if they could have gotten into a school back home. and given the obstacles presented by returning as an IMG, they should not go abroad if they do not have to. going to a DO school would be a better option, and anyone able to get into Aus schools would be able to get into a DO school. most docs practicing in america that trained recently would tell you the same whether they went to a US MD school, a DO school, or abroad.

we get that you dont think the schools are mills. how many times you need to say it? you can put down your webster's dictionary. but of course you certainly would not think so because you've already decided to go and accepting it being a mill would create psychological disonance that anyone would seek to avoid.

i certainly do not think they are diploma mills according to strict definitions. even definitions are subject to bias. dictionaries are compiled on how words are used. they are not laws by which language must abide. language is dynamic and changes in dictionaries reflect this.
 
jaketheory said:
this is a contradiction. if it did not matter where you went to school, it would not necessitate qualifiers (eg. "as long as..."). and from what i've heard, a considerable number of people fail out of the caribean schools (or repeat years) and that does not even concern how they do on boards.
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My point is that I don't care if people fail out of the schools... what matters is that my doctor did well on the boards.


there is a great problem with a school having lax admissions. training doctors is incredibly resource intensive. their training is an investment, and to get returns on that investment they must become competent doctors. stringent admissions criteria is the only way to discriminate between applicants potential to become succesfull doctors. school's reputations are also at stake. the better doctors they produce, the better their reputations become, the easier it is for them to attract internationally acclaimed faculty, the more knowledge they produce, the more funding they receive. . . caribean schools circumvent this by being for profit. their returns are in cold, hard cash. US MD schools are forbidden to be for profit by the AMA. Most Aus schools charge international tuition in excess of the cost to train students and this excess is used to subsidize local students if not other things as well.
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Sure, but they are still big enough so that the 100 international medical students won't have a big impact on this cycle.

90% is not accurate. where do you get your info? start here http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/.
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I'm not talking about med schools; I specifically said "public universities (not med schools)".

even if it was 100% it would say nothing about the standards of admissions because it fails to account for self selection. and there really are no MD schools in the US that are 'easy' to get in. of course thats entirely subjective (and thus useless). i've met college graduates that felt anyone with a high school diploma was smart.

if there were US schools that were easy to get into you probably would be posting in the "US schools that are easy to get into" forum instead of here. the vast majority of american students in aus wouldnt be there if they could have gotten into a school back home. and given the obstacles presented by returning as an IMG, they should not go abroad if they do not have to. going to a DO school would be a better option, and anyone able to get into Aus schools would be able to get into a DO school. most docs practicing in america that trained recently would tell you the same whether they went to a US MD school, a DO school, or abroad.
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Yes, part of the reason why I'm going to Oz is bc my GPA was too low to get in here. But I don't want to go to e DO school because I'd like to have the flexibility to practice in other countries, which you can't do with a DO.

we get that you dont think the schools are mills. how many times you need to say it? you can put down your webster's dictionary. but of course you certainly would not think so because you've already decided to go and accepting it being a mill would create psychological disonance that anyone would seek to avoid.
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Sorry if I like to use facts to support my suggestions. I always thought that Webster's dictionary was the generally accepted definition of anything. Sure, there's probably plenty of psychological dissonance; I won't deny that... but for all PRACTICAL purposes, the Caribbean and Australian med schools seem to produce competent physicians. The whole purpose of the boards is to separate the students who know what they're talking about from those that don't... that's why the boards are standardized and admissions aren't.

i certainly do not think they are diploma mills according to strict definitions. even definitions are subject to bias. dictionaries are compiled on how words are used. they are not laws by which language must abide. language is dynamic and changes in dictionaries reflect this.
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That's why I like to use the current dictionary.
If they're not mills according to "strict definitions", what definition do you have to use to call them mills? Put strict definitions aside and talk about the spirit of the term "diploma mill". The purpose of the term is the fact that, like steel mills and other mills, "diploma mills" exist to make a profit by manufacturing diplomas. There is a big difference between actual diploma mills (i.e. Warnborough College in Ireland) and schools that are just easier to get into.
It seems like your definition of the term is different from the definitions that you get when you google "diploma mills". What exactly is your definition?
 
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