Everyone wants to be in PT

[MJHUSKERS]

I don't know if this is the case at other schools; but it seems like everyone in the world is "pre-PT" to the point that it is alarming. I know it sounds stupid, but is anyone else annoyed by that? I've met more pre-PT major than pre-med, pre-anything. I'm finished with all my pre-reqs after I finish up relativity in Physics II this semester and I think it's extremely discouraging to see how many people want into PT school.

I gurantee pre-pt is the most popular degree amongst freshman at my school, is it like that everywhere else?

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[soccer31]

I don't know if this is the case at other schools; but it seems like everyone in the world is "pre-PT" to the point that it is alarming. I know it sounds stupid, but is anyone else annoyed by that? I've met more pre-PT major than pre-med, pre-anything. I'm finished with all my pre-reqs after I finish up relativity in Physics II this semester and I think it's extremely discouraging to see how many people want into PT school.

I gurantee pre-pt is the most popular degree amongst freshman at my school, is it like that everywhere else?

It is somewhat like that in my school too, but there is a big difference between those that declare themselves as pre-pt and those who actually make to pt school...

 

[durandel]

It doesn't surprise me, given that..

1) PT has been rated as one of the "happiest" or best jobs in America a few times over the past few years

2) PTs make comfortable (not lucrative) salaries....which doesn't mean much until those loans are paid off.

3) PTs are generally respected, and there's a pretty bright future for it all around.

The nice thing is PT schools are generally keeping their classes small, so the result is things get much more competitive for those who want to get in. I'd prefer this to larger classes flooding the market with PTs and driving down their value.

 

[MJHUSKERS]

In that regard, I am happy it's competitive too. Those reasons you list above for wanting to become a physical therapist are what drives me nuts. Personally, I don't think those are good enough reasons to be interested in physical therapy or any career. What do I know; I'm just another PT applicant. I'll just pick the next happiest career I find in the new issue of reader's digest magazine.

 

[Cronos]

I've met one other pre-PT at my college. A lot of people talk about it and how they hear it's great and they might consider it yadda yadda. Pharmacy and pre-med still seems to be the superior path though.

There are several pre-PA and pre-OT though. I'm unique going into PT here

 

[lee9786]

Usually I get a different response. From what I've gathered, people are being deterred by the salary. Comparing other health professions salary and there ability to pay off there student loans, a couple students have decided that a career as physician assistant or as pharmacist is a better option. The salary of a PT does provide one which is in the upper-middle class, however, once factoring in the student loan debt, expendable income decreases significantly. The amount of compensation for a physician assistant career can be twice as much as a PT with one year less schooling and ~25k less total debt. These are people in preprofessional programs though. They are pretty advanced in the programs. It doesn't surprise me highschool kids are saying pre-PT. Who knows what they want to do at age 18? My guess is the parents are probably having some say in this. After all, it is one of the "best careers" according to media.

 

[PharmDan2]

In that regard, I am happy it's competitive too. Those reasons you list above for wanting to become a physical therapist are what drives me nuts. Personally, I don't think those are good enough reasons to be interested in physical therapy or any career. What do I know; I'm just another PT applicant. I'll just pick the next happiest career I find in the new issue of reader's digest magazine.

Don't think being happy and making good money are good enough reasons to have a career as a PT? That makes you sounds crazy...

 

[MJHUSKERS]

I'm must be taking crazy pills!

 

[thorn22]

Usually I get a different response. From what I've gathered, people are being deterred by the salary. Comparing other health professions salary and there ability to pay off there student loans, a couple students have decided that a career as physician assistant or as pharmacist is a better option. The salary of a PT does provide one which is in the upper-middle class, however, once factoring in the student loan debt, expendable income decreases significantly. The amount of compensation for a physician assistant career can be twice as much as a PT with one year less schooling and ~25k less total debt. These are people in preprofessional programs though. They are pretty advanced in the programs. It doesn't surprise me highschool kids are saying pre-PT. Who knows what they want to do at age 18? My guess is the parents are probably having some say in this. After all, it is one of the "best careers" according to media.

Good point.

Honestly, I know PT is the right career for me, and I will love doing what I do, but I would be lieing if I said the salary : loan debt ratio doesnt scare me.
It would be one thing to spend $100K on a program that is going to make me $90K+ for the rest of my working days. But, $50K-75K? Really?

I have to avoid thinking about it, because I just cannot fathom it. If someone said to me "Wow, you are an idiot for going into that profession", I am not entirely sure, financially speaking, I could disagree.

 

[Muscles00GT]

It's a legit field to go into. I was originally pre-med with intentions on going to medical school, but made a change of plans over the last year or so. I've been around plenty of healthcare professionals from nurses, PA's, and physicians and when they ask me what I want to do, I respond, "physical therapy" and they ALL generally have the same response. They all say that it's an awesome field to go into these days and a majority of them wish they would have pursued PT more instead of their nurse/PA/physician path.

 

[thorn22]

It's a legit field to go into. I was originally pre-med with intentions on going to medical school, but made a change of plans over the last year or so. I've been around plenty of healthcare professionals from nurses, PA's, and physicians and when they ask me what I want to do, I respond, "physical therapy" and they ALL generally have the same response. They all say that it's an awesome field to go into these days and a majority of them wish they would have pursued PT more instead of their nurse/PA/physician path.

Thats great, but the real question is what do they say once you leave the room?

 

[Shugo]

Don't think being happy and making good money are good enough reasons to have a career as a PT? That makes you sounds crazy...

I think MJHuskers has a valid point. I guarantee that most people did not write in their application essays something like "I want to be a PT because it will make me happy and I could make a comfortable living". Most people probably talked about their fascination with the workings of the human body/human movement, desire to help people, personal attributes that fit somehow with the profession, and other things like this. However, I bet that many have said this but are really more intersted with making a comfortable living or working a job that has been rated as a top career choice. I am not claiming you or anyone on this forum fits into either of these categories, so please do not feel I am directing this to any of you specifically. I just do not think it is fair to discount MJHuskers as "crazy", it is valid to be annoyed with those people rushing into the profession for the wrong reasons.

 

[callmecrazy]

However, I bet that many have said this but are really more intersted with making a comfortable living or working a job that has been rated as a top career choice. I am not claiming you or anyone on this forum fits into either of these categories, so please do not feel I am directing this to any of you specifically. I just do not think it is fair to discount MJHuskers as "crazy", it is valid to be annoyed with those people rushing into the profession for the wrong reasons.

I don't think anyone here is in a position to state that reasons mentioned above are the "wrong reasons" for pursuing a career in PT. Perhaps people have different reasons, but let's not stoop to judging right and wrong.

That being said, I don't think that the majors freshmen are declaring are a good reflection of what they will actually end up pursuing as a career. It's no secret that many, if not most, college students change their path numerous times, or drop-out altogether. Even if they don't though, why would anyone be annoyed by that? If you let the choices of others start bothering you, you're in for a lifetime of annoyance.

 

[PharmDan2]

I think MJHuskers has a valid point. I guarantee that most people did not write in their application essays something like "I want to be a PT because it will make me happy and I could make a comfortable living". Most people probably talked about their fascination with the workings of the human body/human movement, desire to help people, personal attributes that fit somehow with the profession, and other things like this. However, I bet that many have said this but are really more intersted with making a comfortable living or working a job that has been rated as a top career choice. I am not claiming you or anyone on this forum fits into either of these categories, so please do not feel I am directing this to any of you specifically. I just do not think it is fair to discount MJHuskers as "crazy", it is valid to be annoyed with those people rushing into the profession for the wrong reasons.

Ur right Shugo, shouldn't have judge... but when looking for a job, being happy and having a decent living doing so is top 2 on the list of things i look for in a career. For me, pt makes me happy BECAUSE i am interested in the anatomy/physiology of the human body and interested in helping people with physical challenges. I guess im the only one who equated "being happy" to doing something you are incredibly interested in and satisfied with.

 

[MJHUSKERS]

Shugo, couldn't have said it any better myself. Let's not be too naive, we are human and we judge people all the time and care what others think. I'm being judged if I'm good enough for certain PT schools right now. I just know too many people who are interested in earning the title dr. and given a white coat and think becoming a PT is the easiest way to obtain that title. No interest or concern about knowing and fixing a person's body or being a cheerleader on the sideline while people recover.

 

[CroakerSoaker]

Its a fantastic field; Why wouldnt people want to become PT's? Im glad to see so many people interested in our field. Don't worry too much.....the "process" will weed out a good bit of those who claim they want to be PT's in their undergrad years. Getting in to PT school takes an amount of dedication that some people just dont have....i graduated with plenty of pre-PT's who are doing something else now

 

[pwrtrainer]

...

 

[xMerryx]

Don't think being happy and making good money are good enough reasons to have a career as a PT? That makes you sounds crazy...

Well, I would think those are not good reasons IF they just read it out from somewhere. You have to be happy doing what you really like not because it's a "happy job" for everybody else. And the money part is because you shouldn't be doing it FOR the money. I love everything about PT and is great that I will get paid well enough for that. That' makes me happy.

Also, maybe two years ago I felt like the original post. I was in a community college and in some classes A LOT of people would say they were going for PT in the future! It is maybe selfish but I had just made my decision that this is what I love and I was going for it and when you see so many people wanting to do the same you feel a little discouraged for different reasons, but then I thought; who cares?? I want to do this!

 

[durandel]

I have no problem with there being lots of people who say they're going to pursue PT, so long as schools keep the process competitive to filter it down to the best bunch of people to further the profession.

One of my fears is that the DPT program becomes available in all sorts of fringe "colleges" in an effort to make a buck off students' enthusiasm, not unlike Chiropractor school( a lot of Chiropractor schools basically allow anyone and everyone to get in who wants to pay for it, with a 2.5 GPA). Then when tons of mediocre or poor PTs flood the market, we start losing respectability in the eyes of everyday people, and soon a typical graduate starts at $26 grand/year just like a lot of Chiropractors do today, unless they start basically taking advantage of the naivete of the public and start doing one-size-fits-all manipulations and mobilizations, ultrasounds, etc. My fears are probably unfounded at this point, since there's a huge difference between the professions (one is part of surgery/rehab process, one isn't). I guess I just get nervous when I hear of PTs wanting to open wellness centers similar to chiros (w/yoga, nutrition, etc, not the sports clinics) since that seems to start to edge away from the health care setting of a PT. But I am seriously digressing.

 

[cowboybuboy]

Usually I get a different response. From what I've gathered, people are being deterred by the salary. Comparing other health professions salary and there ability to pay off there student loans, a couple students have decided that a career as physician assistant or as pharmacist is a better option. The salary of a PT does provide one which is in the upper-middle class, however, once factoring in the student loan debt, expendable income decreases significantly. The amount of compensation for a physician assistant career can be twice as much as a PT with one year less schooling and ~25k less total debt. These are people in preprofessional programs though. They are pretty advanced in the programs. It doesn't surprise me highschool kids are saying pre-PT. Who knows what they want to do at age 18? My guess is the parents are probably having some say in this. After all, it is one of the "best careers" according to media.

I'd like to know where this came from? PA 2x the income of PT? I'm a physical therapist considering going back to med school. But if PA is really 2x as much, I'd like to hear more about it. Where did you get this info. I hope it's not just hearsay.
I can give you a good range of how much PTs are making here in IL. From 55k-90k. PTs on the higher bracket are probably working somewhere else aside from regular jobs.
Having mentioned the salary of PT in IL, is it safe to assume that PAs are making 100k to 200k?

 

[Vinti112]

In general, I wouldn't be too worried about "everyone" declaring that they are going to PT school. I graduated in December as pre-PT with a group of 5 friends who all graduated pre-PT as well and I am the only one going to PT school this year. One girl has decided to apply to PTA school, one is working in sales for a large company and has no intentions of applying, one applied to 7 schools and never got in, one got into OT school, and the other decided to go back to school for something else entirely.
With the competitiveness of PT programs, there will continue to be more job opportunities than PTs to fill them for many years to come.

 

[lee9786]

I'd like to know where this came from? PA 2x the income of PT? I'm a physical therapist considering going back to med school. But if PA is really 2x as much, I'd like to hear more about it. Where did you get this info. I hope it's not just hearsay.
I can give you a good range of how much PTs are making here in IL. From 55k-90k. PTs on the higher bracket are probably working somewhere else aside from regular jobs.
Having mentioned the salary of PT in IL, is it safe to assume that PAs are making 100k to 200k?

I listed a link for you below. 200k isn't likely. PAs in surgical specialties can clear 100k though. I've heard PAs claim that they make from 125-150k, but that's working more like 50-60 hours /week. I've heard that PT's salary can be as low as 50k in the southeast.

The median says something more like 60k

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Physical_Therapist_(PT)/Salary/by_State

So when saying doubling the salary I'm looking at the 60k for PT and 120k for PA and I'm looking at PAs in surgical specialties. Primary care will pay a little more than that of a PT when looking at the median. I have heard of PTs going to PA school. I'm always interested in the reasons why PTs decide to pursue medicine as a PA or Physician. What's your motivation for pursuing this route if you don't mind me asking?

This website below is a PA forum that would be extremely helpful for you. It is widely utilized by current PAs that can give you some important information. Hope this helps.

http://physician-assistant.advanceweb.com/Article/PA-Salaries-by-Specialty-2008-2009.aspx


For PA forum

http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/forums/index.php

 

[freddydpt]

I'd like to know where this came from? PA 2x the income of PT? I'm a physical therapist considering going back to med school. But if PA is really 2x as much, I'd like to hear more about it. Where did you get this info. I hope it's not just hearsay.
I can give you a good range of how much PTs are making here in IL. From 55k-90k. PTs on the higher bracket are probably working somewhere else aside from regular jobs.
Having mentioned the salary of PT in IL, is it safe to assume that PAs are making 100k to 200k?

I have a friend who graduated last year from PA school, starting off as a neurosurg PA in Florida, they will train him, he has call once a month, works straight 40-50 hours per week (any extra and he is paid overtime)... starting salary... 140K... find that in the PT world? nope.

 

[lee9786]

Current salaries for MD, PA, (PT?), might not be what they will be in the near future. Both MD/DO and PA are looking to possible cuts in compensation from what I've been reading. I wonder how the PT profession is affected...?

 

[freddydpt]

Current salaries for MD, PA, (PT?), might not be what they will be in the near future. Both MD/DO and PA are looking to possible cuts in compensation from what I've been reading. I wonder how the PT profession is affected...?

actually, PA salary will be less affected since PA's are a lower cost alternative to getting clinical work done than an MD/DO. Not many surgeons like doing their own follow-ups and in an outpatient setting an MD and PA pair has less salary cost to a business than MD and MD pair. Result = more PA's with more enticing offers to join a practice.

As far as PT salary goes, if it drops in the future the entire profession should strike, if you ask me. It's already getting screwed over when it comes to salary/cost of education ratio.

 

[lee9786]

actually, PA salary will be less affected since PA's are a lower cost alternative to getting clinical work done than an MD/DO. Not many surgeons like doing their own follow-ups and in an outpatient setting an MD and PA pair has less salary cost to a business than MD and MD pair. Result = more PA's with more enticing offers to join a practice.

As far as PT salary goes, if it drops in the future the entire profession should strike, if you ask me. It's already getting screwed over when it comes to salary/cost of education ratio.

Yes it seems that costs are going to be driving decisions, which makes me wonder when a newly mandated doctorate of PT is asking for more compensation. I guess it all comes down to proving with evidence-based research that the utilization of PT services is effective and decreases costs. How much is out there...? I do not know. Are the lobbyists effectively persuading officials that the utilization of direct access to PTs saves costs? I don't know that either. How much of an impact would the utilization of direct access make an impact on healthcare costs overall? another don't know. I have only a qualitative not quantitative understanding of these issues. I'm sure someone does and is working diligently on behalf of Physical Therapists right? I hope...

These are all important questions, and hopefully PT lobbyists are being successful with delivering there message. Right now is the time for change and if change doesn't happen now it seems to me that it is unlikely to happen. The focus needs to be on how the utilization of PT services saves dollars. Maybe then more of a priority will be put on the PT profession. Right now I see problems...

 

[truthseeker]

Lee,
I hire PTs in Minnesota and I can tell you that the doctorate does NOT have a direct impact on salary. Experience does. Salaries are going up but not in my opinion because of the doctorate. It is because of scarcity.

 

[lee9786]

Lee,
I hire PTs in Minnesota and I can tell you that the doctorate does NOT have a direct impact on salary. Experience does. Salaries are going up but not in my opinion because of the doctorate. It is because of scarcity.

I've heard the same thing. The doctorate currently means little when it comes to compensation, experience does. Eventually though more DPTs will be graduating from programs. Many of these individuals will have 100k+ debt and will need some way to pay it. It seems to me that if the salary does not increase along with this cost than it seems to me that this profession will no longer be desirable for many potential applicants. Financial pressures will pursuade them to go the PA, Pharm, MD/DO route.

I've been trying to take a prospective look at this profession. Right now DPTs comprise a very small portion of the workforce. (~1% in 2007...link below.) Right now demand for PT services are relatively high due to the baby-boom generation. Not too long from now, however, this generation will have past on and the demand will start decreasing again. I've been trying to acertain when demand for PT services start to decline again. My rough guess is around 2015. At this time, the demand will decrease and so will the salary due to an excess supply of therapists. The point is if the demand for therapy is pretty much at its peak than so is the salary. By the year 2015-2020 there will be a surplus of therapists pushing down the salary. Am I making any sense? Please correct me where I'm wrong... comments welcome.


http://www.apta.org/AM/Template.cfm...MPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&CONTENTID=41546

 

[PTtoBe]

I've been trying to take a prospective look at this profession. Right now DPTs comprise a very small portion of the workforce. (~1% in 2007...link below.) Right now demand for PT services are relatively high due to the baby-boom generation. Not too long from now, however, this generation will have past on and the demand will start decreasing again. I've been trying to acertain when demand for PT services start to decline again. My rough guess is around 2015. At this time, the demand will decrease and so will the salary due to an excess supply of therapists. The point is if the demand for therapy is pretty much at its peak than so is the salary. By the year 2015-2020 there will be a surplus of therapists pushing down the salary. Am I making any sense? Please correct me where I'm wrong... comments welcome.

In my mind, baby boomers right now are around their early to mid 60s roughly, and considering average life expectancy is 77.7 years, I think if we see a decline it will be more around 2020 at least (although you do give it a 2015-2020 range).

Another note on the baby boomer generation: more people in that generation has already resulted in more offspring, and more patients in the future even after their generation has passed on. Checkout the population growth in our country...it may grow by different degrees, but it's always growing. You may say that would mean likewise more PTs entering the work force (and devaluing PTs universally by their availability), but things like the time/money investment of the DPT will specifically weed out the number of prospective PTs.

Also, if there were fewer applicants for PT, wouldn't that mean even greater scarcity (and greater demand, equaling greater pay) for PTs? I'd actually view that as a good thing for a new PT graduate.

I know the DPT is viewed differently by PTs currently in the work force, but in my mind as someone about to enter grad school, it's a short term sacrifice for long term gains for the profession. My quick conclusions are actually the opposite of your concerns; I think the DPT will lead to an increase in the value of therapists.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[lee9786]

In my mind, baby boomers right now are around their early to mid 60s roughly, and considering average life expectancy is 77.7 years, I think if we see a decline it will be more around 2020 at least (although you do give it a 2015-2020 range).

Another note on the baby boomer generation: more people in that generation has already resulted in more offspring, and more patients in the future even after their generation has passed on. Checkout the population growth in our country...it may grow by different degrees, but it's always growing. You may say that would mean likewise more PTs entering the work force (and devaluing PTs universally by their availability), but things like the time/money investment of the DPT will specifically weed out the number of prospective PTs.

Also, if there were fewer applicants for PT, wouldn't that mean even greater scarcity (and greater demand, equaling greater pay) for PTs? I'd actually view that as a good thing for a new PT graduate.

I know the DPT is viewed differently by PTs currently in the work force, but in my mind as someone about to enter grad school, it's a short term sacrifice for long term gains for the profession. My quick conclusions are actually the opposite of your concerns; I think the DPT will lead to an increase in the value of therapists.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Thanks for providing the population growth chart. This information leads me to wonder where the increase is coming from. I'm optimistic as well regarding this profession's future. I think the public will start favoring it in a new light. It all comes down to results. "Autonomy" is the new concept. PTs will have to demonstrate that they can step up to the plate and handle this responsibility. I believe it will happen.

 

[xMerryx]

I don't know but at some level I feel that we are (correct me if I'm wrong) part of the first DPT generation, at least the almost mandatory DPT generation, and we are the ones that are going to influence the future of the profession. Of course, there is not SO much we can do (maybe?) but I don't know if you get my point, but honestly all these changes are happening as we enter the "PT world" so we are part of these changes/outcomes as well.

 

[lirpa]

I don't know but at some level I feel that we are (correct me if I'm wrong) part of the first DPT generation, at least the almost mandatory DPT generation, and we are the ones that are going to influence the future of the profession. Of course, there is not SO much we can do (maybe?) but I don't know if you get my point, but honestly all these changes are happening as we enter the "PT world" so we are part of these changes/outcomes as well.

Yes actually i just learned today that only 8% of pts have DPT's..so we are definetely part of the new generation of DPT's and we are going to see a lot of changes from what they are teaching us in dpt school. there are a lot of lobbiest working hard for us and as i read early the salary is not necessarily increasing due to the title but we are coming out with much more knowledge than those who have bachelors did when they graduated. And those older pts who are skeptical of the new vision I think are more intimidated by us, not because we know more, because obviously experience surpasses everything but because its going to take us a lot less time to become as successful in our career and we need to update them on the new vision and new skills that they were never taught!
Also something to think about for those who were worried about the need for pts in the future, you should have no fear with all the sports and physical activities and crazy things we do now a days..think about it, even 10 years ago there was a much lower percentage of competitive female athletes. We sky dive, cliff jump, fly..I mean in general as technology advances and we advance so do the injuries and wear and tear on our bodies therefore there will always be an essential need for pts!!...ALWAYS!! and with the new vision, we will eventually be like dentist..you dont question going to the dentist?..you go every 6 months for a check up, and go directly there for treatment..it hasnt always been that way. At some point people realized that having someone clean your teeth every 6 months helped prevent cavities and gum problems..Just like eventually people will relize getting anual evaluations from a DPT will help catch any small ailments or problems before they turn into large money problems!!..think about it!
And for the record..money and security are very important..and I commend any md/ods and pa's, but I dont think there is any profession that is as gradifying as PT's, your not just diagnosing people and sending them on their way to the next doc..your not monitoring them on their death bed, your not breaking the horrible news to a family member, your not just writing a prescription and forgetting a face, your not dealing with sneezes and coughes all day...your strictly helping people live a better life more comfortably and with less pain!..that is better than any amount of money (obviously this is just my opnion, and I thank all MD/OD and any medical practitioner for doing their job because not everyone can do it) but that I feel is why people choose pt over med!

 

[chman]

I just read on the University of Montana DPT program web page that applications have been going down the past few years. I believe they said the height was in 2002.

It may be different for other schools, but who knows. I think that the application process weens out quite a few people. For instance, most schools that I have looked at require at least 200 hours of work in a PT office. Therefore it would be kind of hard to apply on a whim.

 

[lirpa]

I just read on the University of Montana DPT program web page that applications have been going down the past few years. I believe they said the height was in 2002.

It may be different for other schools, but who knows. I think that the application process weens out quite a few people. For instance, most schools that I have looked at require at least 200 hours of work in a PT office. Therefore it would be kind of hard to apply on a whim.

well that would make sense..cost went up..education was extended..requirements were raised as well as expectations. its no longer a moderately hard but successful career, its now an extremely difficult expensive but still very gratefying successful career. The extent of the degree is going to automatically steer some applicants away! But I would be willing to bet that was a rare case and just that school, because my schools apps are sky rocketing! DPT school is very competitive to get into!