ethics question womens choice in ob/gyn

[fexhzzzzhfi]

Dear Forum members,

I have a question I would like to put please :

" Women, wherever they are and whoever they are, should have the automatic choice at all times of deciding that all aspects of their ob/gyn health care should be provided exclusively by female health professionals if they so desire."

This could be in the form of an automatic questionaire and disclaimer:

e.g. Do you want the ob/gyn health professionals involved in your present care to be :

a) All female
b) All male
c) I have no preference as to either males or females

Thank you in advance for any replies received

Yours x x

L ( I am female )

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[chrisisinnocent]

Why is this an ethics issue?

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

Hi Chris,

thanks for your reply, much appreciated

I myself, consider the subject to be an issue of ethics, if you differ in this then I would be most interested in your thoughts on the subject.

Could you also be so kind as to enlighten me as to the meaning of your subtitle " elbows deep " as it is intriguing but I must confess I don't understand it

x

L

 

[Geekchick921]

Starting my 6th month of pregnancy and a pre-med. I have no preference whatsoever. I had 2 solo female Ob/Gyns before I became a patient of the group I currently see. I absolutely love the two male doctors in the practice I go to, but I also want to see the female doctor just because I want to see everyone in the group.

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

Firstly let me say I hope all goes well with the baby, remember sleep is an over-rated commodity !!!

Secondly let me also take the opportunity to thank you for your kind reply

All the Best and good luck !

x

L

 

[chrisisinnocent]

Hi Chris,

thanks for your reply, much appreciated

I myself, consider the subject to be an issue of ethics, if you differ in this then I would be most interested in your thoughts on the subject.

Could you also be so kind as to enlighten me as to the meaning of your subtitle " elbows deep " as it is intriguing but I must confess I don't understand it

x

L

Not sure why it's an ethics issue. So far all you have offered is the fact that you think it is, feel free to expand on that. There are women who prefer female doctors and they are free to do so. I have had several patients come to our L&D stating they prefer a female Dr and that was accomodated without a fuss.
I'm afraid there is nothing intriguing about my elbow deep subtitle as it refers to being hard at work.

 

[Global Disrobal]

A more fruitful way of getting an answer to your question is by posting a poll on this forum. That allows the visitors to post their preference in an anonymous way.

As a male, I'll abstain from the topic for obvious reasons. Having said that, let me tell you that in my 5+ years in the field, I've only faced the issue of a woman refusing my care (based on my gender), only twice. One of those was due to a history of sexual abuse.

I do agree with Chris, in that I don't quite see why this is an "ethic" issue and not just a "preference."

Best of luck!

 

[edmadison]

I'm a pediatrician, but my dad's an OB. I agree that woman should have a choice in who they chose as their provider. I have a problem with the policy you presented:

" Women, wherever they are and whoever they are, should have the automatic choice at all times of deciding that all aspects of their ob/gyn health care should be provided exclusively by female health professionals if they so desire."

A standard like this would be quite onerous; it implies that there is an absolute right to be treated by a provider with the gender of your choice. Is this practical? Would that mean that every OB group must have a male and a female provider on call each night? What if your group doesn't have enough female physicians? Who covers during vacations? If a patient needs to go see a sub-specialist (e.g. urogyn) and there are no females of that sub-specialty in the area must the patient's insurance company pay to transport them to see a female? Must the ED always have a female physician? Must it always have a female ultrasonographer?

I don't think anyone would argue that patients should have the option of requesting a provider of a specific gender and that reasonable efforts should be made to arrange that. If they cannot be reasonably accommodated, however, the patient may decline to be seen by a provider of the other gender, but would do so at their own peril. In other words, I don't think that it should be a "right".

Ed

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

Dear Chris, Global Dirsrobal and Edmadison,

Thank you all very much for your kind, prompt and helpfull replies to my question.

Can I ask a few further questions of you please ?

Global disrobal - and I'd be intrgued as to the source and meaning of that "handle" too !! - could I ask you please why :

"as a male, I'll abstain from the topic for obvious reasons"

I'm not sure why you would think you would have to abstain, is it not a subject of interest to literally millions around the world, and why as a man, is your opinion not as valid as anyone elses ?

Edmadison, it would be an onerous standard I agree, but do you not think gynaecolgy is a unique set of circumstances in many ways, certainly for the female patient involved ?

thank you all once again, I will look into the poll facility, many thanks for the tip

x

L

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

I appreciate your input

xx

L

 

[edmadison]

Edmadison, it would be an onerous standard I agree, but do you not think gynaecolgy is a unique set of circumstances in many ways, certainly for the female patient involved ?

Is is unique, no. Is it special, absolutely. This does not justify adopting impractical mandates. As I noted, the "policy" you cited would not be practical. How would you enforce this? Are you going to force female OB/GYNs to move to areas where there aren't enough female providers so that access can be improved? How would you do that? Will you force solo practicing male OB/GYNs to close their practices because they are unable to guarantee that a female physician will be available?

Ed

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

and thanks once more for taking your time to answer me.

If a woman says she does not wish to use male gynaecological health care providers. What do you think should happen. Should the woman be given a simple
" be attended to by a male or go without treatment ",

or do you think her wishes should be respected and that alternate arrangements should be made, no matter how difficult to achieve ?

Do you think it is right and ethical to, in effect force a decision on a woman that she objects to, and which may affect her to some degree in the future ?

Would you also advocate the same consideration to a man who had some objection to being treated by a female doctor ?

thanks again

x

L

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

what made you go in for pediatrics ? What were your hopes and aspirations in this field ? Where they realised ? Did the horrible thought of loosing children in your care deflect you in any way from this branch of medicine ?

x

L

 

[minime]

I am a male OBGYN resident. I have also only come across someone who refused by care because of my gender twice. There are many times at my hospital in which all residents and the attending on call are all male. And yes, the choice for the patient is either accept our care or go somewhere else. (Which in many cases is not an option).

Of course, I believe that anyone has the right to choose who cares for them, but in some it's just not an option.

 

[Global Disrobal]

Can I ask a few further questions of you please ?

Global disrobal - and I'd be intrgued as to the source and meaning of that "handle" too !! - could I ask you please why :

"as a male, I'll abstain from the topic for obvious reasons"

I'm not sure why you would think you would have to abstain, is it not a subject of interest to literally millions around the world, and why as a man, is your opinion not as valid as anyone elses ?

L

To answer your questions:
1. My handle is a username I've had since undergrad and thats all that there is to it. Given the days of numerous usernames and passwords, along with my slowly setting in dementia, I've decided to keep the same handle.

2. I "abstain" since I am a male and clearly your question is directed at females and their choices. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to answer your question. As you see in my original post, I stated what I thought and what my experience had been.

Nice discussion going on here. Good to see the forum get busy again.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I guess most of the females want to choose to involved in their present care to be all females.

I'd disagree with that assumption.

Some women, especially very young ones, seem to prefer females, but I'd venture a large proportionm are like myself and don't care.

Then again, you have women in my grandmother's era who *prefer* men as they were raised when doctors were men. Plain and simple.

I have had both male and female gynecologists and frankly have no preference; never have and cannot imagine I ever will.

I have to wonder that those who adamantly prefer female care providers are unnecessarily sexualizing the encounter.

 

[smq123]

I have to wonder that those who adamantly prefer female care providers are unnecessarily sexualizing the encounter.

Well said.

 

[THP]

" Women, wherever they are and whoever they are, should have the automatic choice at all times of deciding that all aspects of their ob/gyn health care should be provided exclusively by female health professionals if they so desire."

This is already the situation in the US. You absolutely have the choice to go to any doctor you want. If you want to hop on a plane and fly across country to CA for your pap smear go ahead. If you are too poor to afford a plane ticket, they you have to prioritize: what is more important to you? Seeing the doctor of your choice at great hassle and expense, or seeing who is available right then and there at greater convenience and a lesser cost. Its still your choice.

 

[elr1983]

I have to wonder that those who adamantly prefer female care providers are unnecessarily sexualizing the encounter.

I actually disagree with this statement. I myself prefer a female provider for my ob-gyn needs. I feel more comfortable being naked in front of someone of the same gender and more at ease discussing very personal issues with a woman than with a man. I think I get better care that way, not because women are automatically better ob's than men, but because I'm less nervous during the experience and feel more at ease asking questions, discussing problems, etc. Does this mean there's something wrong with me, that I'm "sexualizing" the experience? I guess so, according to you and smq123....I, however, think this accusation borders on offensive, and that I'm well within my right to pick the provider who makes me most comfortable, particularly when scheduling a routine exam well in advance in a moderate sized city with many available providers.

 

[smq123]

I myself prefer a female provider for my ob-gyn needs. I feel more comfortable being naked in front of someone of the same gender and more at ease discussing very personal issues with a woman than with a man.

I can understand that you'd feel "more comfortable being naked in front of someone of the same gender."

That being said, though - does that extend to ALL healthcare providers that might see you naked? For instance, if you needed an emergent appendectomy, would you insist on a female trauma surgeon (because they would have to cut hair on your pubis while prepping you for surgery)? If you needed a urologic procedure, would you insist on a female urologist? And if you needed thoracic surgery, would you insist on a female CT surgeon (because they would need to expose your breasts before doing the initial sternotomy)? Or if you were in an emergency room because of abdominal pain, would you insist on having a female ER doc to do the standard pelvic and DRE?

Does this mean there's something wrong with me, that I'm "sexualizing" the experience? I guess so, according to you and smq123....I, however, think this accusation borders on offensive, and that I'm well within my right to pick the provider who makes me most comfortable, particularly when scheduling a routine exam well in advance in a moderate sized city with many available providers.

While I'm sorry that you feel offended by the strength of that statement, I still sometimes wonder at how adamant people are that they will ONLY see a female provider.

Embarrassing, personal, private situations arise in medicine all the time, and in ALL fields. At some small hospitals, Family Medicine sees all vag bleeders - not GYN. Surgery residents can tell you about all sorts of patients that they have had that came in with very embarrassing chief complaints - "light bulb in the rectum," "vibrator stuck in esophagus" etc. Emergency Medicine guys will tell you all sorts of equally embarrassing situations that they face almost daily.

And yet, NO ONE says, "Well, that surgery resident removing that light bulb from that woman's rectum had better be a female!" They seem to limit this only to GYN and breast surgery....but what makes them so very different?

 

[primadonna22274]

I'm a female, 34 yo, G0P0, in excellent health. I've only ever seen a female provider (and interestingly never a MD/DO) for women's health stuff. Always a PA/NP. Why? Because I made that choice a long time ago, when I was young and shy, to see a female provider. Now I'm 34 and I think I really wouldn't care so much as I used to think I did, but given the choice, my comfort zone would still lean toward female. (And yes, I agree with Winged Scapula that that's a little fishy on my part. I don't know why I feel this way. I haven't ever been sexually abused.)

Really, though, I care much more about the individual attributes of the provider. There are plenty of women doctors that I can't stand that I would not choose to see unless I were bleeding to death and they were the only one who could stop it. In a life-and-death decision, sure, I want all able hands on board. If I can choose an elective procedure with a provider of my choice, I'll choose someone I feel comfortable with.

This issue does come up a lot in the ER though--women who say they want a "female only" or a couple who out of religious modesty insists on a female provider. If we can accommodate the request, sure; but often it's men-only, and if that's what's available, that's what they get, and if they refuse, they can go elsewhere. Really though if it's an emergent situation (pregnant bleeder etc.) I think most women/couples would consent. It runs into a very slippery slope ethically speaking if there is a true emergency (unstable vitals etc.) and the man refuses to have his wife/female partner examined by an opposite sex physician/PA/NP etc.

I agree...post a poll. This will be much more useful info then.

 

[elr1983]

I can understand that you'd feel "more comfortable being naked in front of someone of the same gender."

That being said, though - does that extend to ALL healthcare providers that might see you naked? For instance, if you needed an emergent appendectomy, would you insist on a female trauma surgeon (because they would have to cut hair on your pubis while prepping you for surgery)? If you needed a urologic procedure, would you insist on a female urologist? And if you needed thoracic surgery, would you insist on a female CT surgeon (because they would need to expose your breasts before doing the initial sternotomy)? Or if you were in an emergency room because of abdominal pain, would you insist on having a female ER doc to do the standard pelvic and DRE?



While I'm sorry that you feel offended by the strength of that statement, I still sometimes wonder at how adamant people are that they will ONLY see a female provider.

Embarrassing, personal, private situations arise in medicine all the time, and in ALL fields. At some small hospitals, Family Medicine sees all vag bleeders - not GYN. Surgery residents can tell you about all sorts of patients that they have had that came in with very embarrassing chief complaints - "light bulb in the rectum," "vibrator stuck in esophagus" etc. Emergency Medicine guys will tell you all sorts of equally embarrassing situations that they face almost daily.

And yet, NO ONE says, "Well, that surgery resident removing that light bulb from that woman's rectum had better be a female!" They seem to limit this only to GYN and breast surgery....but what makes them so very different?

Yea, I initially wrote that differentiating emergencies versus not, when I thought it was appropriate to be choosey,etc, but then decided the post was getting out of control and long. That's why I just stuck to saying that for a routine/elective appointment, I feel I'm within my right to pick the provider who makes me most comfortable.

Emergencies are another story...I certainly wouldn't insist on any particular provider in such a situation because it's obviously not feasible to do that, for the reasons that you and others have pointed out. If I did refuse an exam/procedure, which I don't think I'd ever do, I'd be accepting the potential consequences (ie, my appendix exploding, or going through life with a vibrator stuck in my esophagus). I just didn't want to get into a long discussion of what I think is "feasible" and where you draw the line of feasibility (i.e. if there are 2 ER docs on, one male and one female, and the male picks up your chart, is it "feasible" to request the female come see you?), so sort of abondoned that discussion previously. It did occur to me, though.

As far as other providers seeing you naked and dealing with embarassing situations, I, as a fourth year medical student like yourself (I think?), obviously realize that. There are certainly awkward and embarassing situations in all specialties of medicine...but, I think there's a difference between a patient feeling awkward/embarassed seeing the doctor about lack of sex drive versus one feeling awkward/embarassed b/c they brok their leg falling off a bar when they were drunk. I know that it's not supposed to be different, and medical personnel see sexual dysfunction as a complaint like hypertension, etc, but serisouly, some topics are a little difficult to discuss. Anything that patients do to make themselves feel more comfortable discussing these issues, I am in favor of, including choosing a physician of the same gender. I mean, I'd rather a man choose not to talk to me, a female med student, about his erectile dysfunction if he feels too uncomfortable and ask to see my male attending alone then him not bring it up at all and have a worse quality of life. (Obviously, I'd rather my patients feel comfortable talking to me about whatever is bothering them and will do what I can to make them comfortable, but I realize that's not always going to happen.)

I also have spent some time in the hospital, OR, and have actually had a lot of interactions with breast surgeons/gyn oncs in particular as a patient. So yes, a lot of people have seen me naked, not all of them female. I wouldn't insist everyone in the OR be female, or every ultrasonographer be female, because I think this isn't feasible; however, there are dozens of good breast surgeons/gyn oncs in town, some of them female, so it was very feasible for me to pick female ones. Like I said before, not only do I feel more comfortable being naked in front of them, but I feel more able to be candid and discuss all my questions/concerns...ie I feel silly/awkward enough asking how bilateral mastectomies will affect my sex life when I know cancer will kill me, that I don't really need the added dimension of my own discomfort discussing these issues with men. Maybe it's silly, maybe I'm wrong to feel this way, maybe my reasons are stupid, but I probably will stick with female providers for now. Judge ad lib.

As far as other providers, I guess I focus on gyn oncs/breast surgeons/gyns in general in part because they tend to often deal with private issues, in part because this is an ob-gyn board, and in part because that's who I see the most. But you're right, gen surg, family practice, ER, etc, certainly have the potential to be similar. Again, I certainly don't think that in an emergency situation, I or anyone else is in any position to be choosey, lest they accept the consequences. Quite honesetly, I've never really been seen in the ER, nor have I ever had to have a foreign body extracted from my rectum or esophagus, so I can't say for sure.....although thinking about it in theory, I'd care less than I do about providers who I'm going to see over the long term, be naked in front of, and discuss personal issues with. But you're right, maybe it shouldn't be different.

Well, there goes my attempt at a short post without revealing lots of personal information! Ah, gotta love the lack of character limits and the anonimity of the internet.....

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

I just wrote as massive and erudite reply took me 20 minutes and I lost the ******* lot when I went to post it, I will try tomorrow

Thanks for all the input, but please, please don't let this valid discussion point go the way of so many others on the topic, let's be polite, recognise that people have different opinions and that this is often a subject of emotion rather than logic, but let's not let that get in the way of respect and dignity as that is what this area of healthcare should be all about !

x
L

 

[smq123]

Thanks for all the input, but please, please don't let this valid discussion point go the way of so many others on the topic, let's be polite, recognise that people have different opinions and that this is often a subject of emotion rather than logic, but let's not let that get in the way of respect and dignity as that is what this area of healthcare should be all about !

I think that the discussion has been VERY polite so far.

Don't mistake bluntness and strong opinions for "rudeness."

And, in my case at least, my viewpoint is based on logic AND on emotion. The idea that it is "okay" for a patient to automatically prefer one healthcare provider based solely on gender kind of boggles my mind. By saying that women have the right to demand that all aspects of their ob/gyn care be administered solely by other women, it validates the idea that men are, somehow, inferior OB/gyns. And that is just flatly not true, and furthermore, a very sexist idea.

There are certainly awkward and embarassing situations in all specialties of medicine...but, I think there's a difference between a patient feeling awkward/embarassed seeing the doctor about lack of sex drive versus one feeling awkward/embarassed b/c they brok their leg falling off a bar when they were drunk. I know that it's not supposed to be different, and medical personnel see sexual dysfunction as a complaint like hypertension, etc, but serisouly, some topics are a little difficult to discuss.

Sure, MANY topics in healthcare are difficult to discuss. I would agree with that.

But, as I said, awkward situations arise in all specialties of medicine. And I think that singling out OB/gyn issues as particularly awkward is a little presumptuous. And I think that making a patient feel at ease depends on the provider's skill, and NOT the provider's gender.

Yeah, talking about sexual dysfunction is difficult. But so is talking about a new diagnosis of HIV. So is talking about a serious psychiatric disease (many patients are terrified that their neighbors will somehow find out that they have a psych diagnosis).

I don't think that talking about a decreased sex drive is any more difficult or embarrassing than talking about your schizophrenia, or your HIV.

Anything that patients do to make themselves feel more comfortable discussing these issues, I am in favor of, including choosing a physician of the same gender.

Part of the reason why I agreed that many women who adamantly insist that their OB/gyn-related health care be administered by only women are often oversexualizing the encounter is because - having asked a few women whether or not they would be comfortable with a female OB/gyn who was openly a lesbian, many said "NO." Similarly, many agreed that an openly gay male OB/gyn would be fine. For that reason, I agreed with WingedScapula. But I'd be interested to see what you think.

 

[elr1983]

I think that the discussion has been VERY polite so far.

Don't mistake bluntness and strong opinions for "rudeness."

And, in my case at least, my viewpoint is based on logic AND on emotion. The idea that it is "okay" for a patient to automatically prefer one healthcare provider based solely on gender kind of boggles my mind. By saying that women have the right to demand that all aspects of their ob/gyn care be administered solely by other women, it validates the idea that men are, somehow, inferior OB/gyns. And that is just flatly not true, and furthermore, a very sexist idea.



Sure, MANY topics in healthcare are difficult to discuss. I would agree with that.

But, as I said, awkward situations arise in all specialties of medicine. And I think that singling out OB/gyn issues as particularly awkward is a little presumptuous. And I think that making a patient feel at ease depends on the provider's skill, and NOT the provider's gender.

Yeah, talking about sexual dysfunction is difficult. But so is talking about a new diagnosis of HIV. So is talking about a serious psychiatric disease (many patients are terrified that their neighbors will somehow find out that they have a psych diagnosis).

I don't think that talking about a decreased sex drive is any more difficult or embarrassing than talking about your schizophrenia, or your HIV.



Part of the reason why I agreed that many women who adamantly insist that their OB/gyn-related health care be administered by only women are often oversexualizing the encounter is because - having asked a few women whether or not they would be comfortable with a female OB/gyn who was openly a lesbian, many said "NO." Similarly, many agreed that an openly gay male OB/gyn would be fine. For that reason, I agreed with WingedScapula. But I'd be interested to see what you think.

Hmm, I'd pick the woman still....in fact, women I have picked may very well be gay, I didn't really think to consider the provider's sexuality. I guess that's why the accusation that preferring a female is sexualizing it seems odd to me. I just feel more comfortable opening up to a woman and being naked in front of another woman. It's not beccause I think the man is checking me out or whatever.

As far as thinking all male ob gyns are automatically worse, I definitely don't think that. I'm absolutely certain that the standard of care is no different (on average) between an aggregate of male and female ob's. I don't think that a woman is automatically a better doctor, just because she's a woman. What I'm saying is that my own comfort level with a woman doctor is greater, particularly when discussing personal issues, and because I feel more able to ask all my questions, I feel I have a better experience. There is no doubt there are male providers out there who would answer my questions equally well--I just don't think I'd be as willing to ask them, and as a result, not get the same level of care. So maybe you want to call that idea sexist, since I have a personal bias based on the doctor's gender rather than their skill. And I admit, I have a bias, no question. I just think that for me, it's more important for me to be satisfied with my interactions with my doctors than it is for me to "get over it." I do hear where you're coming from, though.

Edit: To address something else, I think that you feeling equally comfortable discussing psych diagnosis as sexual dysfunction as HIV as a hang nail, but not everyone is that comfortable. I think it would be greart if everyone was, myself included, but I just don't think it's the reality.

Also, I don't really "demand" all aspects be provided by a woman. As I think I clearly stated, I certainly wouldn't refuse care from a man in an emergency situation, or demand an ultrasound be rescheduled because a male sonographer is working that day, or insist that all OR personnel for my gyn surgery be male, to give a few examples. I just think that given the luxury of having an abundance of skilled providers of both genders nearby and not being in an emergency situation, I'd choose a female. And if I encountered a male in an emergency, or whatever other situation, I certainly wouldn't say anything to suggeset he wasn't as good as a woman because I don't believe that to be true. I'd have a harder time opening up, and the experience would overall be more anxiety provoking, sure, but I'd get over it.

 

[smq123]

Hmm, I'd pick the woman still....in fact, women I have picked may very well be gay, I didn't really think to consider the provider's sexuality. I guess that's why the accusation that preferring a female is sexualizing it seems odd to me. I just feel more comfortable opening up to a woman and being naked in front of another woman. It's not beccause I think the man is checking me out or whatever.

Thanks for sharing that.

I guess there are a subset of people who look for an emotional connection - "You're a woman, so you understand what I'm going through, etc." It's an argument that I've heard, but never really fully believed. Many excellent oncologists have never had cancer, but can still relate to patients. But maybe that's just me.

I have heard from a few women, though, that they'd never see a male OB/gyn AND would not want a female OB/gyn that was a lesbian. I've also heard of some women (who were not in the medical field, but married/dating a guy who was) who worry about their significant other doing an OB/gyn rotation. I think that these women are definitely oversexualizing the whole thing.

Edit: To address something else, I think that you feeling equally comfortable discussing psych diagnosis as sexual dysfunction as HIV as a hang nail, but not everyone is that comfortable. I think it would be greart if everyone was, myself included, but I just don't think it's the reality.

Thanks, actually. That's quite a compliment.

My mentor from MS-1 used to say that good doctors were pretty much unflappable - they weren't fazed by anything. Because if it looks like what your patient is saying is fazing you, then the patient will clam up. So, as a result, one of his goals was to make his students totally unflappable. Now that I've known him for 4 years, to hear you say that means that he just might have achieved his goal!

What I'm saying is that my own comfort level with a woman doctor is greater, particularly when discussing personal issues, and because I feel more able to ask all my questions, I feel I have a better experience. There is no doubt there are male providers out there who would answer my questions equally well--I just don't think I'd be as willing to ask them, and as a result, not get the same level of care. So maybe you want to call that idea sexist, since I have a personal bias based on the doctor's gender rather than their skill. And I admit, I have a bias, no question. I just think that for me, it's more important for me to be satisfied with my interactions with my doctors than it is for me to "get over it."

Well, by definition, it is a sexist idea, in a way. It's an assumption that you will receive better care (for whatever reason) from a certain person, and it's an assumption that is based solely on gender and not on personal experience or other qualifications.

But you recognize this bias, and that's good. I'm sorry I'm being so stubborn about this - it's a habit that I've picked up from the guy I'm seeing. Part of the reason why I like him is because he forces me to question my own assumptions and biases. It's not always a pleasant exercise (I think we all like to think that we're logical, objective people with well-thought-out beliefs), but it's necessary, and I'm glad that he does it.

I guess I also have trouble understanding your view is because my own personal experience kind of contradicts it. I could NEVER assume that I'd be able to "open up" more to a woman than a man, because that has DEFINITELY not been my experience as a med student on the floors.

There were female attendings on my family med, OB, surgery and peds rotations that I would rather die than talk to about a personal medical issue. Frankly, those female attendings scare the living crap out of me. They're scary, brusque, cranky, rude, and perpetually angry, and I tend to shut up when they're around (praying that they'll think I'm just part of the wallpaper).

Then again, there are male attendings (including some in OB/gyn) that I would go to in a heartbeat, because they've made me feel comfortable and at ease with just a simple joke or a few minutes of conversation. But everyone's experience is different.

 

[THP]

I guess there are a subset of people who look for an emotional connection - "You're a woman, so you understand what I'm going through, etc." It's an argument that I've heard, but never really fully believed. Many excellent oncologists have never had cancer, but can still relate to patients. But maybe that's just me.
.

This is by far the argument that annoys me the most as a male ob/gyn for the arguments you mentioned. Also who is more likely to understand what a pregnant woman is going through - a married man with 4-5 kids (as it seems all male obs have tons of children) or a young single woman who has never been pregnant?

Honestly, I like outpatient OB because I think pregnant women are awesome, but I am not really that interested in managing female sexual dysfunction. Unless there is a potential surgical solution to whatever problem you are having I am not as interested. (Of course conservative treatment should be tried first blah, blah, blah. . .)

 

[primadonna22274]

OK, in all fairness, I HATE OB. I hate pregnant women. I think anybody who thinks pregnant women are neat has got a screw loose. Ick.

And while I've only ever seen a female provider for routine, scheduled-in-advance well woman exams, I've been ridiculously healthy and fortunate to not have any GYN emergencies, so I've had freedom of choice. I also am a seasoned PA who's done a heckuva lot of GYN so I know enough to know when/what to ask/when I need help with my own issues. I recognize most women do NOT have the benefit of that knowledge and really are clueless about their own bodies and I try to be sensitive to that.

I WILL say that when I had some pretty difficult crap to muck through after a nasty divorce I found a really excellent MALE counselor and worked through it over a few years. He and I are still very good friends. I really don't believe I could have opened up to another woman about a lot of this stuff because so much of it had to do with falling short of my own superwoman ideals--and if there's anything a superwoman is afraid of, it's confiding to other perceived superwomen that she is not, in fact, Superwoman. I'm not sure I would have made the progress with another female as I did with my un-female psychologist. Also, I really believe men are just less judgmental than women (but yes, that's a sexist arbitrary assumption on my part).

Back to topic...just had to interject.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I certainly never meant to insult anyone and I'm sorry if any users felt that way.

My comment about "inappropriate sexualization" of the encounter comes from exactly the same place as smq's experience does: I've had plenty of patients who either made it obvious that they were uncomfortable because of their own perceived sexual implications of the examination or would also refuse to see a male unless he was gay.

I recall a thread here on SDN by a gay male student who claimed that he "femmed" it up a bit on rotation because he got a lot more examinations and deliveries that way (in response to male medical students who were complaining on a thread that the patients wouldn't allow them in the room).

So it is fairly clear to me that many patients do sexualize the encounter. Obviously not everyone does, and my comment was not meant to express any belief of that kind.

I also fail to understand the idea that females "understand" more about Ob-Gyn. I've never had children so I know no more about being pregnant than a male physician would. I've also never had cancer yet am still able to be empathic and help my patients. I don't believe you have to possess the body part or the disease to be a comforting, understanding physician. If someone prefers a care provider of their own gender, that's fine, but we cannot ignore that many patients do so because of preconceived notions about the encounter and the provider's ability to care for them.

 

[fab4fan]

I have to wonder that those who adamantly prefer female care providers are unnecessarily sexualizing the encounter.

Agreed.

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

sexualizing the encounter ??

Does that matter if they are ? surely it's what's in the patients mind is important from the patients's psychological point of view, not the reality of the situation ?

However they visualise the imtimate examination should their wishes not be paramount in a modern, professional, caring, empathetic 21st century health care system ?

Do you think patients should be forced into situations they do not wish to be placed in ?

Do you think a man or a woman who has an objection to intimate examination by a health professional of the opposite sex should be, in effect, forced into having that examination ?

thanks for all the replies which have been very useful and very rational !

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

Do you think women are sexualizing it though ? I have not found any research into that element of it.

In the Swedish example of August 2007, where Swedish women are given an automatic choice of either a male or female doctor in gyn, male doctors claimed they were virtually redundant as a result and 3 Swedish provinces raised the issue of removing a woman's choice of sex of gyn doctor and the patient would have to been seen by whatever doctor of whatever sex was offered to her.

Women's groups were not happy about this and let's face it, Sweden is a country of very liberal sex laws and pornography and mixed saunas and there was much protest when one swedish club mooted banning mixed saunas.

I have talked to many naturist's and even swingers at a swinger's club - I hasten to add I only sat downstairs in the bar !! - and a surprising number of women I talked to there in such liberal nudity settings preferred women gyn doctors for varied reasons

x

L

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

a lady put to me was as follows :

F 36 1 x child :

" The day you show me a male gyn who allows a group of medical students to examine his wife or daughter and then greets me as I walk through the door of his office and discusses my case with me fully clothed and him naked and spread in stirrups with a metal device shoved up his rectum whilst another fully clothed woman looks on to make sure I'm not some kind of litigation crazed mad woman, is the male gyn I will permit myself to be examined by "

An extreme, yet lucidly presented argument, how do you feel about her attitude ?

Are you offended or insulted when women refuse your care ?

xx

L

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

for writing in such small bites but the weather has been playing hell with my connection and I beg your indulgence.

As part of my pyschology qualifications, I hope to do more research and collect more data face to face with the public and thanks to the participation of this forum one of the questions I will put on my form will be :

" Do you think an intimate examination by a doctor of the opposite is sexualisized in any way ? "

If anyone would like to suggest different ways to ask this question - i AIM FOR 500 responses from the public - I would be most interesed in your thoughts

x

L

 

[THP]

sexualizing the encounter ??

Does that matter if they are ? surely it's what's in the patients mind is important from the patients's psychological point of view, not the reality of the situation ?

However they visualise the imtimate examination should their wishes not be paramount in a modern, professional, caring, empathetic 21st century health care system ?

Do you think patients should be forced into situations they do not wish to be placed in ?

Do you think a man or a woman who has an objection to intimate examination by a health professional of the opposite sex should be, in effect, forced into having that examination ?

thanks for all the replies which have been very useful and very rational !

No patient is being forced into a situation they do not wish to be placed in. They are choosing to go to a particular doctor.

 

[smq123]

sexualizing the encounter ??

Does that matter if they are ? surely it's what's in the patients mind is important from the patients's psychological point of view, not the reality of the situation ?

However they visualise the imtimate examination should their wishes not be paramount in a modern, professional, caring, empathetic 21st century health care system ?

Do you think patients should be forced into situations they do not wish to be placed in ?

Do you think a man or a woman who has an objection to intimate examination by a health professional of the opposite sex should be, in effect, forced into having that examination ?

thanks for all the replies which have been very useful and very rational !

a) If a man or a woman has an objection to an intimate exam by a health professional of the opposite sex....then that patient should schedule an appointment with someone else. Don't schedule an appointment with Dr. Michael Smith, go to your appointment, and suddenly say, "Oh! You're a man?! Nope, don't want you to examine me!" That patient should have scheduled with a woman in the first place.

b) In an emergency situation - you should let the nearest trained medical professional examine you. An emergency is a bad time to be picky.

c) While I respect patient autonomy, I believe that there should be limits. If a patient refused an exam from an African American doctor because of that doctor's race, then that is unacceptable. You either accept the care from that doctor, or you go elsewhere.

I don't really understand why you're "researching" these questions....because your posts make it seem like you've already made up your mind as to what you think....

a lady put to me was as follows :

F 36 1 x child :

" The day you show me a male gyn who allows a group of medical students to examine his wife or daughter and then greets me as I walk through the door of his office and discusses my case with me fully clothed and him naked and spread in stirrups with a metal device shoved up his rectum whilst another fully clothed woman looks on to make sure I'm not some kind of litigation crazed mad woman, is the male gyn I will permit myself to be examined by "

An extreme, yet lucidly presented argument, how do you feel about her attitude ?

I think that this is silly.

Part of good OB/gyn care (regardless of whether or not the physician is a man or a woman) is making the patient feel comfortable.

There is no reason for an OB/gyn to "discuss the case" with the patient while the patient is naked and in stirrups. All OB/gyns, even the women, should make an effort to give the patient as much dignity and privacy as possible. That example has NOTHING to do with letting a man examine her. If a woman did the same thing to a female patient, then I would be positive that that patient would be equally uncomfortable with that female OB/gyn.

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

I'm studying gender preference in intimate health care situation as my thesis for my psychology qualification.

I'm preparing a public survey as part of this in which I hope to canvas 500 members of the public in each of four main areas :

1) women's attitudes to gender in intimate health care situations
( there will obviously be many sub sections and the "routine - v- emergency" situation suggested above is an excellent addition - thanks smq123 )


2) women's partners attitudes to gender in intimate haelth care situations

3) man's attitudes as per 1 above

4) man's partner's attitudes as per 2 above

my mind is not made up, I have pesonal feelings and preferences, based partly on experience and partly on inate feelings and upbringings as every person on the planet is. But one of the marks of a good psychologist is that he approaches situations where he has a prior opinion with an open and subjective mind and this is a good test of my objectivity for my dissertation

xx

L

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

if you read again the post above regarding one of the taped interviews I have made I did say I thought it was an EXTREME view and quoted it because I thought is was EXTREME, also what the lady in question was saying was :

"When a male gyn doctor is prepared to talk to ME whilst HE is naked in stirrups with something shoved up his bum as I ( the woman patient ) am fully clothed then I will allow him to treat me "

sorry for any misunderstanding there but it was a direct quote from my research

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

my own PERSONAL feelings are that :

every patient, regardless of sex, should have the option to be treated by a health care professional of the same sex, if they so wish to do so

you mention African American medical staff and I agree wholeheartedly with you, one of the thing quite a few man and women have raised with though and which is very interesting is religion, however it's phrased the argument seems to run as follows :

"Why as a woman, should I be expected to be intimately examined by a muslim male doctor when his own wife and daughters wear a veil and full body clothing ? How can this doctor treat me with respect as a woman when I am doing something that he obviously would disapprove of his own female family members doing ?"

xx

L

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

it's my connection.

quite a few men I have spoken to seem to object strongly to the above as well :

"his wife wear a veil, why should he be allowed to examine my wife ?"

x

L

 

[elr1983]

a) If a man or a woman has an objection to an intimate exam by a health professional of the opposite sex....then that patient should schedule an appointment with someone else. Don't schedule an appointment with Dr. Michael Smith, go to your appointment, and suddenly say, "Oh! You're a man?! Nope, don't want you to examine me!" That patient should have scheduled with a woman in the first place.

b) In an emergency situation - you should let the nearest trained medical professional examine you. An emergency is a bad time to be picky.

c) While I respect patient autonomy, I believe that there should be limits. If a patient refused an exam from an African American doctor because of that doctor's race, then that is unacceptable. You either accept the care from that doctor, or you go elsewhere.

I don't really understand why you're "researching" these questions....because your posts make it seem like you've already made up your mind as to what you think....



I think that this is silly.

Part of good OB/gyn care (regardless of whether or not the physician is a man or a woman) is making the patient feel comfortable.

There is no reason for an OB/gyn to "discuss the case" with the patient while the patient is naked and in stirrups. All OB/gyns, even the women, should make an effort to give the patient as much dignity and privacy as possible. That example has NOTHING to do with letting a man examine her. If a woman did the same thing to a female patient, then I would be positive that that patient would be equally uncomfortable with that female OB/gyn.

Sorry, got out of the loop on this discussion this week. Anyway, it sounds like we agree for the most part...when given the luxury of time and plenty of providers, I will pick a female over a male because it makes me more comfortable. Again, I don't think this applies in an emergency situation....I would certainly accept the care available in such a situation, and think that those who wouldn't can sign an AMA form and accept the risks of not being treated. I just don't agree that because some people will choose a healthcare provider of the same sex, they're necessarily some kind of pervert sexualizing their medical care, and found it a little offensive.

And while I agree that men and women are equally competent medical care providers and that I theoretically shouldn't feel any different discussing personal issues with either one of them, I can't help but feel more comfortable with a woman than a man. I agree that there are limits to patient autonomy, but I think that choosing a female provider in the situations I've described above falls within my autonomy. Just my opinion.

 

[smq123]

I just don't agree that because some people will choose a healthcare provider of the same sex, they're necessarily some kind of pervert sexualizing their medical care, and found it a little offensive.

Understood.

However, I think you read too much into that comment. Even people who DO sexualize the encounter aren't perverts....they just think too deeply about the possible (but unlikely) connotations of a pelvic exam. It doesn't mean that there's something wrong with them, or that they're perverted or juvenile.

Many of the women who oversexualize the standard GYN encounter probably learned that mindset from their mothers and friends. I know that there are a lot of horror stories of "That doctor molested me!" that are floating around out there, and probably poison many peoples' minds.

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

all, appreciate your kind input

x

L

 

[fexhzzzzhfi]

Just to keep things in perspective and inject some humour I thought I'd share this with you.

A doctor in the U.K. has just been suspended for 6 months for putting false details of his qualifications on his CV, he's a urologist and his name is, honest, no BS :


Dr. Dangle !!!!

xx

L

 

[Beek88]

So, I thought I would throw my 2 cents in here. First off, allow me to say that I agree with you in that every woman should be entitled to the provider of their choice. I’m going to focus my response on primary care OB/GYN providers since, as others have stated, it’s a different ball game in an emergency situation or while undergoing testing/surgical procedures.

OB/GYN is a very unique and different field, simply because if you remain with the same doctor, you depend on this person from everything from learning how to be responsible for and comfortable with your body, pregnancy and childbirth, to cancers, infertility, sexual dysfunction and other medical conditions. I personally believe that an OB/GYN should be one of the most important people in a woman’s life and she needs to be able to develop a trust and feel comfortable communicating with them about sometimes awkward issues; Rather than just go in for a 15 second pap smear and be out the door. However, it’s the doctor’s job to make the patient comfortable; after all, bedside manner is the most important thing healthcare personnel can do for their patients. Without this, it doesn’t matter whether you’re male or female, your patient is not going to develop a trust with you.

With that said, I personally have been more comfortable seeing male providers in all fields of medicine, ESPECIALLY OB/GYN. I have had two different male OB/GYNs since I was 16 years old and both of which were fantastic. My current OB/GYN is wonderful and he has made me feel comfortable enough to ask any question or express any concerns no matter how crazy I think they are. His upbeat and energetic personality just radiates through his staff and patients.

This has also been my experience working in healthcare; I have dealt with both male and female OB/GYNs and I must say I agree with SMQ123 and her statement of :



“There were female attendings on my family med, OB, surgery and peds rotations that I would rather die than talk to about a personal medical issue. Frankly, those female attendings scare the living crap out of me. They're scary, brusque, cranky, rude, and perpetually angry, and I tend to shut up when they're around (praying that they'll think I'm just part of the wallpaper).

Then again, there are male attendings (including some in OB/gyn) that I would go to in a heartbeat, because they've made me feel comfortable and at ease with just a simple joke or a few minutes of conversation. But everyone's experience is different.



Most female OB/GYNs that I have had the “privilege” of dealing with have acted in the same way. I feel women OB/GYNs are more judgmental and have the “we’ve all been there” or the “I know how it is because I’m a woman” attitude. While male OB/GYNs seem to be more sensitive and empathetic and seem to go out of their way to make their patients more at ease.

On a side note, from reading opinions on this forum and others I would like to say Thank You to all the male OB/GYN providers out there and those considering OB/GYN. I read a lot of bias against males going into this profession and people saying only women belong in OB/GYN. I find the current trend of less men going into OB/GYN quite disturbing. Trust me, there are a lot of women out there who believe just the opposite and without you, women wouldn’t have the right to choose a provider and would be forced into having to see only females. So again, thank you for going into this profession and allowing women to still have options. Something that may not be as readily available in the future unless more males go into the field.

 

[ici_cute]

"Why as a woman, should I be expected to be intimately examined by a muslim male doctor when his own wife and daughters wear a veil and full body clothing ? How can this doctor treat me with respect as a woman when I am doing something that he obviously would disapprove of his own female family members doing ?"
L

By being professional.

When I was a med student, my sister (nonmedical) was pregnant with her first baby. She asked me for a recommendation, and I named a few male and female obgyn. At first, as usual, she prefers a female doctor, but somehow appointments changed, and there was a male doctor, my lecturer. She didn't see him yet but she told me. I told her he's a great muslim doctor. She can always ask for second opinion or request to be changed if she feels uncomfortable.

She met him, followed throughout her delivery, and haven't changed obgyn even on her second pregnancy/delivery.

Both of us are muslim and wear veils. And there is should be nothing to be disapprove of when seeing a doctor, male or female, unless they are taking advantage of you.

I guess it's not so much of an issue here in where the Muslim are majority I guess. But then again I'm not sure other neighboring Muslim countries. But most important of all, it's all about being a professional and carrying out a duty. As for the patient, I believe they can request. They also have options to go to other centers if they are not pleased. But they shouldn't make assumptions without seeing and talking face to face first. They can be as uncomfortable with a female doctor too...and sometimes worse.

 

[sarcopenia]

Hello,

As a family medicine resident rotation through Ob/Gyn, in a post-modernist society, that also happens to have a significant percentage of Muslim women, this issue is currently quite relevant to me.

I think allowing a women to choose (nay, demand) her physician based on gender is blatantly discriminatory.

As has been previously mentioned, nudity / exposure is present in many areas of medicine (e.g. trauma surgery), and women are not offered the choice in those settings. It's difficult to partial out how much of this difference is due to practicality / emergent characteristics of the situation, but one different is probably because of specialty area culture. Obs/Gyn is a feminist environment. Nurses and physicians sometimes advocate for their patients so much that it comes across as hostility to the patient's family and/or anybody or anything vaguely male. There is a word for this - misandry.

If I am seeing a patient who is clearly apprehensive, and if a female provider is readily apparent, I have no problem with involving them (as a chaperone at the very least). But when we make the "option" of choosing provider characteristics too readily available, we run the risk of making patients "hang-ups" even worse. To use a poor analogy, we are enabling a socially awkward person's solitude, rather than gently encouraging them to attend more functions.

In one case, I've even had a woman who refused to let me TALK to her for 5 minutes (and in this case, the female Obs/Gyn consultant was running behind, and I would have been saving her time by getting 'housekeeping' tasks / demographics data gathering out of the way).

As a future family physician, I need a level of competence in a wide array of health conditions, for an equally wide array of patient populations: young / old, sick / well, male / female, and so on. Catering to a patient's personal preference today (by not seeing them) means less learning experience in a sheltered environment (residency) and greater chance of missing a diagnosis in the future. In other words, "being nice to women" now means not being able to take care of them as well in the future.

Even in the cases were there is prior sexual abuse, I fail to see the justification in insisting on a female provider. That's like saying that a black patient who was abused (or whose relatives / ancestors were abused) by white slavers is justified in refusing treatment by white health care workers.

Besides, when is the last time you've heard of a male being able to choose provider characteristics? It's a double standard.

In a medical system that is more free-market (like the US), I guess ANY preference can be accommodated. But in a socialized system (like Canada), where healthcare is "free" (well, paid for by taxes), you get what you get - period.

The problem with too much emphasis toward "empowering" a group of people is that you "disempower" others. There are only so many rights to go around. Giving women the right to only see female physicians removes the right of male residents from getting a proper educational experience. In the end, this leads to fewer and fewer family medicine physicians from having an obstetrics component to their practice. This means that more and more "routine / well women care" gets transferred over to Obs/Gyn specialists (some might not mind this, but others that I have met seem to feel underutilised when this occurs).

I realize that some of my view points might be considered offensive. If this is the case, I apologize - it is not my intent. The other side is argued so often and so strongly, that I guess I felt the need to "compensate."

 

[THP]

Hello,

As a family medicine resident rotation through Ob/Gyn, in a post-modernist society, that also happens to have a significant percentage of Muslim women, this issue is currently quite relevant to me.

I think allowing a women to choose (nay, demand) her physician based on gender is blatantly discriminatory.

As has been previously mentioned, nudity / exposure is present in many areas of medicine (e.g. trauma surgery), and women are not offered the choice in those settings. It's difficult to partial out how much of this difference is due to practicality / emergent characteristics of the situation, but one different is probably because of specialty area culture. Obs/Gyn is a feminist environment. Nurses and physicians sometimes advocate for their patients so much that it comes across as hostility to the patient's family and/or anybody or anything vaguely male. There is a word for this - misandry.

If I am seeing a patient who is clearly apprehensive, and if a female provider is readily apparent, I have no problem with involving them (as a chaperone at the very least). But when we make the "option" of choosing provider characteristics too readily available, we run the risk of making patients "hang-ups" even worse. To use a poor analogy, we are enabling a socially awkward person's solitude, rather than gently encouraging them to attend more functions.

In one case, I've even had a woman who refused to let me TALK to her for 5 minutes (and in this case, the female Obs/Gyn consultant was running behind, and I would have been saving her time by getting 'housekeeping' tasks / demographics data gathering out of the way).

As a future family physician, I need a level of competence in a wide array of health conditions, for an equally wide array of patient populations: young / old, sick / well, male / female, and so on. Catering to a patient's personal preference today (by not seeing them) means less learning experience in a sheltered environment (residency) and greater chance of missing a diagnosis in the future. In other words, "being nice to women" now means not being able to take care of them as well in the future.

Even in the cases were there is prior sexual abuse, I fail to see the justification in insisting on a female provider. That's like saying that a black patient who was abused (or whose relatives / ancestors were abused) by white slavers is justified in refusing treatment by white health care workers.

Besides, when is the last time you've heard of a male being able to choose provider characteristics? It's a double standard.

In a medical system that is more free-market (like the US), I guess ANY preference can be accommodated. But in a socialized system (like Canada), where healthcare is "free" (well, paid for by taxes), you get what you get - period.

The problem with too much emphasis toward "empowering" a group of people is that you "disempower" others. There are only so many rights to go around. Giving women the right to only see female physicians removes the right of male residents from getting a proper educational experience. In the end, this leads to fewer and fewer family medicine physicians from having an obstetrics component to their practice. This means that more and more "routine / well women care" gets transferred over to Obs/Gyn specialists (some might not mind this, but others that I have met seem to feel underutilised when this occurs).

I realize that some of my view points might be considered offensive. If this is the case, I apologize - it is not my intent. The other side is argued so often and so strongly, that I guess I felt the need to "compensate."

Great post until the end when you apologized for it. Have your views and stick to them, don't apologize for it.

 

[ici_cute]

In a medical system that is more free-market (like the US), I guess ANY preference can be accommodated. But in a socialized system (like Canada), where healthcare is "free" (well, paid for by taxes), you get what you get - period.

Agreed!

 

[Leukocyte]

I think allowing a women to choose (nay, demand) her physician based on gender is blatantly discriminatory.

Yes

Why just stop at "I do not want a male doctor", why cannot a patient say "I do not want a black doctor".

How is prefering a male doctor different from prefering a white doctor? Does'nt the patient have the "right" to choose what doctor they see?

It is topics like this that sicken me, and make me hate clinical medicine. I am a FM resident, and I HAVE TO do many deliveries and pelvic exams to graduate from my residency. Let me tell you, I will never ever do OB after residency...it is just a big headache, especailly for males. Not worth elevating by blood pressure over this. Let the females do it if they want to.

I am a man of science, and I thought medicine was a pure science when I started medical school. I was dead wrong. Medicine has lots of social bull**** (like this topic) that make me want to puke. Patient this, and patient that...scew this. I am leaving clinical medicine once I finish my residency (which I am forced to do because of the $250,000 monkeys on my f@ckin shoulder). The medical establishment now is like any other "service business". Not unlike the resturant business. You choose your resturant/hospital...and choose your chef/doctor.

I do not give a rats ass what the public thinks...It is OBVIOUSLY very INSULTING to even assume that a M.D., a person of science, who went to all this crap to study the human body to heal and help people is reduced to a low-life pervert..or horny freak.

Screw political correctness...let us just be honest with ourselves here and state the obvious...females who ONLY want female doctors think that male doctors are perverts and horny mother-f@kers. That is VERY insulting to stereotype ALL male ob/gyns just because a few male doctor bad apples.

But I really do not care...the only time I will be willing to do a delivery is if I were on a plane 40,000 feet above sea level, and I happen to be the ONLY FM or OB/GYN doctor on that plane, and it is an absolute emergency. Short of that I am not even getting near a woman for OB or Gyn. It is not worth the headache, stress, and the insult.