Epidemiology

[Music333]

I've recently started researching epidemiology and have a few questions.

Is there really a preferred major for MPH in epi? I've read that biology, chemistry, or mathematics is recommended, but I'm a psych major.

Which classes are required? I've taken a year of general chemistry and calculus, and am planning on taking some upper-division biology courses (I have AP credit for bio) and statistics.

Does prestige of undergrad matter for admissions into MPH schools? Does prestige of MPH school matter in getting a job? How tough is admissions into a MPH program?

Are jobs easily found? What is the entry-level salary?

Thanks!

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[208808]

I don't think your major matters as long as you have a real interest in pursuing epi and can express that in your personal statement.

I think bio and calculus are recommended but each school is different.

I went to a state school for undergrad and I got into three very good programs. Admissions vary by school. The name of a school can play a role in your career but don't rely on it.

I wouldn't pursue an mph in epi with the intent of "getting a job". For me, an mph is part of a career goal. Considering my background and specific research interests, epi is a good path for me.

A good site to see different public health jobs and salary: http://cfusion.sph.emory.edu/PHEC/phec.cfm

 

[CMVMPH]

I have my MPH in Epidemiology, and my undergraduate degree is a BA in Political Science.

I don't know if the major is really that important. Some schools may require certain things, but many don't even require a basic statistics course! (which I totally disagree with for Epi majors and find bizarre). I used to work in admissions and would answer this very question to prospective applicants so...

It's not important to have a major in something like biology or mathematics, but you NEED to be very comfortable with both subjects. Much of epidemiology deals with understanding disease patterns and trends, but also trends of the complications of diseases (i.e.: extremity morbidity among Type 2 Diabetes patients), so being knowledgeable and comfortable with scientific terminology is helpful.

Also, while the applications of biostatistics and epidemiology is far different than straight calculus or straight statistics, you still should be very comfortable as a math student. The joy of epi is being able to sit in front of STATA (my preferred weapon, but there is SPSS and SAS too) and let it do a LOT of the calculations for you. But of course...you need to know what the significance of the numbers in that output mean.

I honestly don't think what you've done in undergraduate is that advantageous to a graduate career in Epi. With a pysch major, you should be fine! Sorry for the rant but i hope i helped

 

[swemory2007]

I was a psych major and if anything thought that it helped me. I don't know about your school's requirements for the psych major, but we took a semseter of statistics and a semester of reserach methods, which I found to be helpful. We were even exposed to SPSS, which was good in that in most MPH programs you will use some kind of statistical software such as SAS, Stata, or SPSS. I was also premed at one point so I took chem, bio, and physics, along with calculus. None of the things you learn in these courses necessarily apply (as epi is a whole new way of thinking), but the higher level, challenging coursework prepares you well.

 

[snoofle]

I was a psych major as well and would definitely recommend you take as many hard sciences and maths/stat classes as possible. I had originally applied to Emory for their EPI program, however, due to my lack of alot of hard sciences and maths, I was rejected from that program, but accepted into a different program at Emory. And do well on your GRE Math!!

 

[WantAnMPH]

I would disagree with the above statements regarding hard math and science. I certainly wouldn't discourage them, as they'll be very useful, but I don't think they'll make or break your application to an Epi program. I was a history undergrad and took literally no college math (had high school statistics) and no hard science (i took, and did very poorly in, earth science). I was accepted to the Epi programs at Emory, Pitt, Drexel (w/ scholarship), and Univ. of Michigan (w/ scholarship). I've matriculated at Emory and have even been placed in the "accelerated" biostatistics course, based on my GRE score.

The key to making up for the lack of math/science was a very good score on the quantitative GRE, as well as an overall good GPA and a good personal statement.

 

[snoofle]

I think you should take work experience into account as well though. If you have spent a few years out of school and have real life experience, then that weighs differently than a straight out of undergrad kid who has nothing but their GPA, classes, and GRE scores.

 

[CMVMPH]

The key to making up for the lack of math/science was a very good score on the quantitative GRE, as well as an overall good GPA and a good personal statement.

This is absolutely NOTHING against you in any way, shape or form...because I'm sure that by your modest statement, you're hiding some amazing 3.99999999 undergraduate GPA lol, but I would offer this word of caution to those going into the application cycle for MPH's...

I worked in both Admissions and the Dept of Epi and Biostats at my alma mater. I would HIGHLY discourage the chair (not that I had too much say, but...) and the dean of admissions from admitting students with no math/science background and a decent GRE. I just feel that the mathematics measurement of the GRE is a highly inefficient way of measuring a person's aptitude in Epidemiology and Biostatistics. I also have always felt that a well-rounded student is better than one good test score (But believe me, I would definitely take a great GRE score when it comes time for Ph.D. in Epi Applications! lol)

Also, I tutored a few students as the Dept's sole TA/RA in my last semester. Many of them never had statistics or biology/chemistry or had it many years ago, and they struggled so badly through the subjects! Graduate school, honestly, does not have time to teach the basics at a slow pace. I would talk to my mentors (these students' teachers) and say to them, "You know, it really sucks, but some people just aren't meant to be Epi and Biostats majors. They aren't Math people". And they were probably REALLY good at other things and REALLY passionate about their schooling.... it would really bother me. So, to make a long story short, taking the Epi/Biostats friendly classes will help you realize whether or not that subject matter is for you.

Sorry for the Monologue!

 

[jlittlej]

I have been thinking about picking up an epi course for each of the next two semesters while finishing a bio degree and then knocking out the MPH in summer-fall-spring and -summer if needed during my application glide year for med school. But I'm becoming more interested in a career as an epidemiologist. Epi actually fits my strengths and interests a little better than med school. I don't desire bags of money. However, I also don't want to be making $40k at a non-profit that's dependent on shifting funding at middle age. I'd like any more input on the career track than the BLS or the grad programs - which are in the self-promotion business - put forth.

I went to the Emory job site, and there seem to be a number of good jobs with city and state health departments and NGOs. But are those the best things out there, and are most MPH grads ending up with poor job prospects? Any input on a realistic career track for someone's who's good with numbers and research, willing to go for the PhD and work my as$ off, but probably will not be gaining admission to Johns Hopkins, Harvard or Emory is appreciated.

 

[WantAnMPH]

Well perhaps I will get to Emory Epi and find out I can't swing it, but judging by the syllabi I've seen for my intro epi classes (biostatistics, epi methods, and stats methods), the basic statistics I had in high school puts me ahead of the first month of course work. All the syllabi (including the one for the "accelerated" biostats course I was placed in) have indicated that familiarity with calculus is helpful, but certainly not necessary. I'm sure those who took upper level math/science will be bored in the class, while every indication is that they'll be right at my level (or even a little below).

I am in no way discouraging taking calc, bio, etc., I just think it's important not to panic if you don't have these courses. I wouldn't not apply to a program just cause you're lacking. The fact that I was accepted to Michigan and Emory epi (as well as Pitt and Drexel) leads me to believe that you have a shot at getting in without the specific courses.

 

[cbrown800]

at my school, the people with strong backgrounds in math / statistics cruised through all the epi courses, while the rest of us struggled and studied hard. not to say everyone didnt do well, just certain people had to work harder and others didnt.

 

[house vs god]

The program I am in requires a science background. But whether or not your undergrad major matters depends on a) the program and schools you apply to and b) what you want to do with your MPH in epi. If you have done research in public health or have done community service in public health, then it shows you have experience in public health practice, which in my opinion is more important than having a science background (unless it's required).

 

[Music333]

Thanks for the replies.

What of extracurriculars/jobs/experiences do admissions officers look for? I'm a RA in a psych lab, and I volunteer in an OT/PT clinic and a MR/DD home. (those are my biggest commitments). I plan to take a year off after graduation, so any ideas would be great.

As for classes, I'm not planning on taking any more chem or physics classes. As a psych major, I do have to take a psych stats and research designs class. Will that cover "math" stats or should I take it just in case? I have a 3.9 GPA after 3 semesters of college, and I can graduate in 2 more semesters (lots of AP and large-courseload semesters).

I wouldn't pursue an mph in epi with the intent of "getting a job". For me, an mph is part of a career goal. Considering my background and specific research interests, epi is a good path for me.

What do you mean? Is it pointless to get a MPH in epi if you're not going for a PhD? Can someone else provide more info on job outlook and salary? I'm not interested in making loads of money. But I don't want to spend all this time and money for a master's and end up with a $30k/year job.

 

[house vs god]

Thanks for the replies.

What do you mean? Is it pointless to get a MPH in epi if you're not going for a PhD? Can someone else provide more info on job outlook and salary? I'm not interested in making loads of money. But I don't want to spend all this time and money for a master's and end up with a $30k/year job.

Here is some info from www.whatispublichealth.org

How can a graduate degree in public health enhance my career opportunities? Many public health jobs require a graduate degree in public health. A graduate degree gives public health professionals a competitive edge over other professionals and enables professionals to:

• gain knowledge of the factors which influence local, national and global legislative and social polices;
• apply broad-based, state-of-the-art quantitative and qualitative skills needed for problem solving;
• develop multidisciplinary and collaborative strategies for solving health-related problems;
• enhance communication skills by working with diverse populations; and,
• be positioned for a leadership role in health promotion and disease prevention.

What are the career opportunities in public health and what salary ranges can I expect after graduation?
While there are dozens of specialties in public health, most career opportunities are found in the following fields. The salary ranges, as follows, are the actual salaries earned (adjusted for inflation using the national CPI - Bureau of Labor Statistics) within one year of graduation as reported by the most recent nationwide survey of graduates conducted by ASPH:

• Health Services Administration
  $37,050 - $161,400
• Biostatistics
  $33,000 - $63,000
• Epidemiology
  $38,175 - $136,237
• Health Education/Behavioral Science
  $33,000 - $86,625
• Environmental Health
  $44,550 - $143,700
• International Health
  $31,500 - $86,625
• Nutrition
  $31,500 - $70,875
• Public Health Practice/Program Management
  $41,175 - $102,000
• Biomedical Laboratory
  $31,500 - $78,750

But this may give more detailed and accurate information:
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes191041.htm

Good luck! Don't doubt yourself. Higher education always pays off.

 

[DrJosephKim]

Those listed salary ranges are so wide that I don't think they are helpful. The type of work you find really depends on your qualifications and your credentials. If you have an MPH - expect a certain salary. If you have a PhD, MD, or other terminal degree, then you're in a different bracket. I realize that this is obvious, but it explains the wide ranges you see there.

 

[jlittlej]

I agree that the BLS statistics, while likely very close to accurate, do not paint an adequate picture for an aspiring epidemiologist. Of a given MPH program, what percentage are employed within three months of graduation and at what salary? What kind of growth opportunities are there?

Most graduate programs are in the business of selling themselves, so it's hard to get accurate information from them.

 

[Music333]

I agree that the BLS statistics, while likely very close to accurate, do not paint an adequate picture for an aspiring epidemiologist. Of a given MPH program, what percentage are employed within three months of graduation and at what salary? What kind of growth opportunities are there?

That's exactly what I'd like to know!

I'm mostly interested in obtaining a Master's, and not a PhD or MD. Is it going to be worth it?

 

[NAJ07]

I received my MPH in Health Management and Policy and Epidemiology. I think the MPH is worth it. I lobbied for a few years at the state level for health care clients and then worked as an Epidemiologist under a CDC grant. Now I'm going into the military as a commissioned officer and will have significant responsibilites managing all aspects of public health for a base. Salaries are going to vary depending on where you work, i.e. private vs. government vs. non-profit.

 

[Music333]

NAJ07, were you able to concurrently get both degrees? How long did it take?

Is it possible to enter a PhD program in Epi right out of undergrad? I just don't want to do a Master's then PhD, and be over 30 by the time I acutally have a job.

 

[derm83]

Any stories about practicing physicians with MPH?

 

[208808]

It is possible at some schools to enter a PhD program in Epi straight out of undergrad, but it would require publications and work experience.

Its not pointless to get an MPH if you're not planning on pursuing the PhD, but it is pointless if you have no clear research interests...you may end up working as an analyst in a field you dont like

 

[Music333]

Its not pointless to get an MPH if you're not planning on pursuing the PhD, but it is pointless if you have no clear research interests...you may end up working as an analyst in a field you dont like

I assumed that only a PhD would be able to control research and grants, and that MPH would work under them. So is that not the case; can a MPH set up research as well? How much experience would they need?

I've looked on monster.com and other job websites, and it seems that a lot of the epi jobs require a PhD or MD. It's a bit discouraging.
I hate to keep repeating the same question/comment, but I'm still confused about the actual job prospects and salaries for a MPH (especially right after graduation).

 

[Jude84]

I would also like to know just what is the average salary for an MPH straight out of grad school. I have never been able to find the right estimate. Is putting all that time and money into an expensive degree worth it if most of the jobs out there are right under 50K? I mean, I am not looking to make banker bucks, but I am not looking to be in serious debt over an MPH.

Also, an MPH seems like a very serious degree. Judging by the coursework involved in obtaining one, you would think these degrees rank up there with an MBA or a serious medical-science degree. What is with the shaft?

 

[208808]

look for ph jobs on ph websites like: http://cfusion.sph.emory.edu/PHEC/phec.cfm

Principle Investigators typically hold a doctorate. I think you should still have interests of your own if you are planning on stopping at the masters level. If Im a PI I won't hire anyone to work on my projects if they don't have sincere interests in the work.

 

[mphseeker]

Hi guys.

So, I've been researching PhD Epi programs, specifically looking at some of the less popular schools that offer the degree. When applying, how much should I consider the school's name recognition in contrast to funding? I mean, quite a few PhD programs I have been coming across that are outside CEPH accredited schools of public health seem to offer full tuition, stipend and health insurance to all PhD candidates, but people seem to focus on the accredited and ranked programs a lot more on these forums.

Does CEPH accreditation really matter for emploment at the PhD level, especially when you have an MPH from a CEPH school aready? That full funding if admitted looks pretty enticing.

I meant to post in another thread, but feel free to answer if you like!