EMT on route to med school

[hector219]

I would like some input on this plan. I'm 25, and I'm going to go back to school in order to enter med-school. I'm thinking about going through one of the accelerated EMT courses and working as an EMT during the time that I'm taking med school pre-reqs, and during med school if that's a possibility. I'm a quick learner, hard worker and very motivated towards this goal. How feasible is this plan, and are the accelerated programs worthwhile?

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[Jambi]

An EMT course is very doable in an accelerated form, it all depends if you have the money to spend. As for working as an EMT while in school, that is also very doable. There is a very large diversity to EMT shifts and you'll be able to find a job and shift that will work with your school scedule.

Good luck.

 

[hector219]

Let me add one thing. Obviously, money is always an issue, but I have the luxury of being able to make money less important than time, so if I could become certified and get working ASAP after leaving my current job, then the extra cost would be worth it to me. That is, considering the total cost of living, working a temporary job, etc. while in a more traditional EMT program, it seems that the extra cost doesn't really end up being very significant.

 

[emeddo]

Be very careful about the job market for EMTs where you live. Don't trust anyone who is associated with training EMTs for their opinion on this. Actually look around and find openings for EMTs and then make sure that they are actually hiring just EMTs at the level you are training and not primarly filling these positions with EMTs with higher training. Typically in larger cities EMTs are only used as volunteers. In your more rural towns then EMTs are used, but a lot of times it still may be volunteers. I'm just saying to be careful. On that note, it can be done. I worked as an EMT before starting medical school and loved it. I will be honest with you, the experience of an EMT really pales in comparison to what you have to learn in medical school, so you may be more confident then your fellow med students, but not necessarily ahead of them in anything (at least after the first few semesters/quarters). The reason I caution you about the jobs is that though I worked as an EMT there are tons of people I originally certified that were never able to find jobs as an EMT because there was so much competition for them. Just look into your job market!!!!!! That being said if I could do it all over again I would get my EMT license again even if I didn't get any jobs just because it was a really fun course.

 

[hector219]

Thanks for the honest info. What are the best tools for checking out the market. I'd probably be looking in the D/FW area in TX, but I'll go where the jobs are. What are other good job opportunities for my time before and during med school for getting at some related experience, and money for things like food and shelter?

 

[supersport]

hey, Well, your in for the fight of your life. I worked nights and premed by day. Remember that your will be competing against people with every advantage. You will have to be more dedicated and diligent. I have applications pending to several med schools now. I have a degree in biomedical sciences, and soon to have another in biochem. My experiance as a paramedic is invaluable but it won't necessarilly get you anywhere. It may help you to get noticed depending on the school. Shoot for the long haul, it has taken me several years to get to this level. Make sure that you cover the funamentals well:i.e. physics, chemistry, biology and math. The MCAT is the reason for this as it, in your situation, will make or brake you. I have a 28 mcat and this is barely enough to attract attention from addmission comittees.
Might say more later but for now, I have to work on a lab for Physical Chemistry, pKa of a weak acid (metyl red).

 

[napoleondynamite]

I am 30 years old and about to graduate from medical school. My plan was very similar to yours and worked out very well. I have been able to work through medical school (full-time during the first two years, part-time during third and fourth years). I also worked full-time during undergrad..

I think that my experience as a medic is THE thing that got me into med school. I had a 27 on the MCAT (not so hot) with very average grades. But I had interesting things to write about in my personal statement, and interesting stories to share during my interviews.

EMS is a great stepping stone to med school or PA school. I wouldn't trade my experience in EMS for anything. I came to med school to be an ER doc because I thought, "if being a medic is this exciting, being an ER doc must be ten times more thrilling." Sadly, I found (this is totally my opinion here) emergency medicine is much more fun and exciting in the prehospital setting. And, ironically, I got to do more as a medic than most ER docs.

Anyway, best of luck to you!

 

[chimichanga]

...Sadly, I found (this is totally my opinion here) emergency medicine is much more fun and exciting in the prehospital setting. And, ironically, I got to do more as a medic than most ER docs.

Anyway, best of luck to you!

But it's great fun to order a CT on every belly pain and HA, labs on everybody, and give some pts all the dilaudid they want...

 

[medicbs]

I would suggest that go ahead and take the EMT course and seek employment throughout your undergraduate education and possibly your medical training (be careful though, mbHopper is correct in warning you to check on job availability in you area before blindly jumping into a program). It is a great experience for your AMCAS and will help with the “nervous shakes” every med student has in beginning of their third year. As for being able to handle the work load… should be no problem at all. I completed my EMT-Basic and EMT-Paramedic while I maintained competitive marks as a full time pre-med (also had a part time job as an EMT while in medic school). You should find the two programs complement each other well as one is predominantly theoretical based and the other is semi-clinical based.

 

[shaggybill]

Wow, this sounds EXACTLY like me. Except I'm 24 (for two more months)

I've got the same plans as you do. I took an Accelerated EMT course last month, hoping to land a job as an ER Tech while I wrap up my undergraduate in 2.5 years and enter med school in Fall 2009. Here's some things I've learned so far.

1. The accelerated course is extremely tough to get through. It's very doable, but you have to give your life up to get through it. Literally. No work and no play. It's also expensive.

2. I've found that some EMS have little/no respect for people who've taken an accelerated course. They absolutely refuse to believe and EMT-B can learn everything they need to know in two weeks. I disagree, but to each his own, and unfortunately sometimes those who dont like it are in charge of hiring.

3. It can be harder than heck to get a job afterwards. Since you're wanting to use it to work as an EMT-B, it'll probably be easier for you, but around here, hospital policies are changing to CNA's and NA I/II's being the ER Tech's instead of EMT-B's. Wish I had known that before I spent $1,750 on the course (although I really don't regret taking it)

4. EMS is cool.

 

[deleted6669]

you can get your cna in what, 2-3 days or 2 weeks at most? there's not a lot to it, mostly pt moving, cleaning, and feeding. so just do that and be the most highly educated cna in history.....emt is really a much better route to er tech but unfortunately rn's are in hiring positions for everyone except clinicians at some er's so of course they want a cna before an emt and an lpn or rn before a paramedic. has nothing to do with who is qualified to do the job but what union you belong to.....

 

[chimichanga]

...but unfortunately rn's are in hiring positions for everyone except clinicians at some er's so of course they want a cna before an emt and an lpn or rn before a paramedic. has nothing to do with who is qualified to do the job but what union you belong to.....

I beg to differ...A good ER manager should hire EMTs as ER techs...

And most hospital systems won't allow medics to perfom their entire scope of practice, and are therefore relegated to an ER tech...

A good manager hires the person, not the cert...

the nursing generalizations are getting old...

 

[shaggybill]

you can get your cna in what, 2-3 days or 2 weeks at most?

Really? I didnt know that. I always figured it was a 4-6 month course. Hmm...that's tempting.

 

[deleted6669]

I beg to differ...A good ER manager should hire EMTs as ER techs...

And most hospital systems won't allow medics to perfom their entire scope of practice, and are therefore relegated to an ER tech...

A good manager hires the person, not the cert...

the nursing generalizations are getting old...

I have seen it 1st hand.
cna right out of school getting er tech position over seasoned paramedics....sad.....
ANOTHER SAD RN FACTOID- a local adn program in town requires all applicants to take a 2 week cert program to become cna's prior to admission. while I have no problem with requiring prior healthcare experience(in fact I think it is a good idea) they don't waive this requirement for paramedics, lpn's, or medical assistants all of whom have a much broader scope of practice than a cna. lpn friend of mine who works with me nights in a small er is going back to school for her rn. she already functions at the level of an rn most of the time yet she had to take 2 weeks off to become a cna to be eligible for this program.she could have taught the course and in fact was more suited to do so than the cna who taught it.just another weed out hoop they make folks jump through to become nurses....
from their site:

Entrance Requirements

High School Diploma or GED
High School Chemistry
High School Human Biology
First Aid and CPR
Nursing Assistant Certification issued by the Washington or Oregon Department of Health

 

[chimichanga]

... but unfortunately rn's are in hiring positions for everyone except clinicians at some er's so of course they want a cna before an emt and an lpn or rn before a paramedic. has nothing to do with who is qualified to do the job but what union you belong to.....

and your point?

George Steinbrenner hired Dallas Green as manager in 1989...He was a bust...So are ALL baseball owners idiots?

Em, was your ex a nurse??


Agree about the CNA req...lame prereq...

I teach nursing clinicals...Give it time my friend...A lot of us that are teaching clinicals are young and CURRENTLY working in the field...less dinosaurs teaching clinicals...I teach how to be a good employee, I teach reality, and hook my students up w/ a variety of nursing opps that are unconventional...I have great results, and my best students are flourishing in busy, high acuity ERs and ICUs in an urban setting...

And many of my students (like myself many years ago) were ER techs/ ICU PCTs while in school... A motivated student (after 2nd semester) who wants to work ER/ICU after grad, makes a (arguably) better tech than an EMT or medic...At least in Phx, many techs in the ED are just waiting to be picked up by a muni fire dept, so they aren't into learning the ED...

 

[deleted6669]

and your point?

George Steinbrenner hired Dallas Green as manager in 1989...He was a bust...So are ALL baseball owners idiots?

Em, was your ex a nurse??


Agree about the CNA req...lame prereq...

I teach nursing clinicals...Give it time my friend...A lot of us that are teaching clinicals are young and CURRENTLY working in the field...less dinosaurs teaching clinicals...I teach how to be a good employee, I teach reality, and hook my students up w/ a variety of nursing opps that are unconventional...I have great results, and my best students are flourishing in busy, high acuity ERs and ICUs in an urban setting...

NOPE- don't have an ex- I'm a great catch
I've been with the same lady for 18 years.
I don't have a problem with the vast majority of nurses.
nursing administrators, nursing unions, and national nursing advocacy groups however.....

 

[chimichanga]

There are many good CEOs that are RNs...I'll put them up against physician CEOs anyday... A doc running the hospital...That's no conflict of interest

 

[deleted6669]

There are many good CEOs that are RNs...I'll put them up against physician CEOs anyday... A doc running the hospital...That's no conflict of interest

RN administrator pushing for all midlevels in the hospital to be np's and replacing all pa's who leave with np's...and creating artificial barriers to pa practice not indicated in state law....no conflict of interest there....

 

[chimichanga]

Me thinks you had a rogue nurse CEO...One is never greater than the sum of all as a whole...Sounds like her agenda went before the greater good...Diversity is best...We can all coexist...

more nurse generalizations from the EM...

Your reality is not always everyone else's reality...

What a tired debate...

I used to think all interventional cardiologists were money grubbing scumbags...That's because I worked for one once; and I preconceived my subsequent notions thereafter...Now I know better...

We're way off topic...

Respect the person, as demonstrated by his actions, irespective of his chosen profession...

 

[deleted6669]

"Me thinks you had a rogue nurse CEO.."
YUP, and a rogue er charge nurse- forced out all the pa's by requiring the nurses to only follow pa orders with an md signature. every order. tylenol for a child with 104 temp. dextrose for a diabetic with blood sugar of 20. you get the idea. the er docs hated it because they had no power to change it as they were an independent er group and not hospital employees. the pa's got a lawyer and a professional opinion from the board of nursing which said that it was perfectly ok for the nurses to follow unsigned pa nurses. the nurses said they "felt uncomfortable following our orders" and so didn't. so the docs started signing charts before we even saw the pts....it was ridiculous. they gave us all big raises to stay.we all quit. the docs replaced us with other pa's ...who all quit. finally they could only get new grad np's to work there....and lo and behold all the same er nurses who wouldn't follow our orders went to a 21 month part time np program and started working in the er. the docs hate them. they still ask me to come back. no frickin way. I was only there part time and had another full time and another part time job so not a big deal for me but a good friend of mine had to relocate out of state to find an equivalent position.....
the other part is the concentrated effort of the np lobby to try to paint all non-rn midlevels as inferior....pa, aa's, etc
RRRRR
I know this isn't an issue with most rank and file rn's but if the leadership is this poor there is occassionally some trickle down.....

 

[Jamers]

you can get your cna in what, 2-3 days or 2 weeks at most? there's not a lot to it, mostly pt moving, cleaning, and feeding. so just do that and be the most highly educated cna in history.....emt is really a much better route to er tech but unfortunately rn's are in hiring positions for everyone except clinicians at some er's so of course they want a cna before an emt and an lpn or rn before a paramedic. has nothing to do with who is qualified to do the job but what union you belong to.....

CNA in 2-3 days? It took me a few months to get mine; I haven't heard of a state needing less than 75 hours in the classroom/clinical experience. I think you may be talking about a NA not a CNA. Getting either your EMT or CNA is doable at almost any time.

 

[shaggybill]

I was told by a nurse in the ER yesterday that NA and CNA are the same thing. Is this not true?

She also said CNA I was a three month course.

 

[Jamers]

I was told by a nurse in the ER yesterday that NA and CNA are the same thing. Is this not true?

She also said CNA I was a three month course.

No. In most states you can be an NA with a few days training and work in a hospital setting. However, to work in most other fields (i.e., nursing homes, ect.) you need to be certified; the C in CNA. If you want to know anything about EMT or CNA I hold both. If I had to rate which has helped me along more, I would have to say the CNA just for the humbling experience it was; I worked for three years in a nursing home. The EMT has given me a background that helps out during Anatomy and BLS; I have also used it a few times off the clock .

 

[shaggybill]

Hmm....that's interesting. So with that information I just did a little bit of research and here in NC there appears to be several places that will offer a review course for those previously trained in basic healthcare, but would like to take a test to become a CNA.

My question for you is, as an NA and EMT, do you think a newly trained EMT-B like myself would be prepared to take a CNA review class and pass the CNA test? On one website, they even say that an EMT is qualified for this review, but I'd like to hear it from an unbiased person.

 

[Jamers]

Hmm....that's interesting. So with that information I just did a little bit of research and here in NC there appears to be several places that will offer a review course for those previously trained in basic healthcare, but would like to take a test to become a CNA.

My question for you is, as an NA and EMT, do you think a newly trained EMT-B like myself would be prepared to take a CNA review class and pass the CNA test? On one website, they even say that an EMT is qualified for this review, but I'd like to hear it from an unbiased person.

The CNA test is a piece of cake; you will have no problems.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

Be very careful about the job market for EMTs where you live. Don't trust anyone who is associated with training EMTs for their opinion on this. Actually look around and find openings for EMTs and then make sure that they are actually hiring just EMTs at the level you are training and not primarly filling these positions with EMTs with higher training. Typically in larger cities EMTs are only used as volunteers. In your more rural towns then EMTs are used, but a lot of times it still may be volunteers. I'm just saying to be careful. On that note, it can be done. I worked as an EMT before starting medical school and loved it. I will be honest with you, the experience of an EMT really pales in comparison to what you have to learn in medical school, so you may be more confident then your fellow med students, but not necessarily ahead of them in anything (at least after the first few semesters/quarters). The reason I caution you about the jobs is that though I worked as an EMT there are tons of people I originally certified that were never able to find jobs as an EMT because there was so much competition for them. Just look into your job market!!!!!! That being said if I could do it all over again I would get my EMT license again even if I didn't get any jobs just because it was a really fun course.

How long is the EMT course and how much does it cost usually?

 

[Jamers]

How long is the EMT course and how much does it cost usually?

It depends on the course actually. I took mine through my undergrad and it lasted one whole semester (so 5 months); some are less time consuming. You can actually get it for free if you do it through your local EMS. For me it was less than 200 bucks.

 

[shaggybill]

Jamers, do you think by reading/studying from a CNA textbook and memorizing the skill sheets that alone would give me what I need to pass the CNA test, or do you think I should probably take the 3-4 day review class? Thanks for your help, by the way.

 

[Jamers]

Jamers, do you think by reading/studying from a CNA textbook and memorizing the skill sheets that alone would give me what I need to pass the CNA test, or do you think I should probably take the 3-4 day review class? Thanks for your help, by the way.

Memorizing the skill sheets may not help out as the skills are different from what you are used to in EMT. It might also be easier to just take the review class instead of reading all that useless information in the text; trust me, there is a lot of b.s. you will never use as a CNA. I would take the class; three to four days is nothing.

 

[shaggybill]

Alright. Cool. Thanks for your advice.

 

[hector219]

I started this thread two years ago and stumbled on it. Thought i'd give an update.

The following spring i did my EMT-B cert in two months. After all materials/tests, it cost $1000. It took a couple of months to get a job, but I was a little picky. The job i have now as a PCT at a Children's hospital is wonderful. Making 14.50/hr in tough times with ample overtime opportunities after a mere two months of class is more than i could have asked for. This is in D/FW, for reference.

Part-time school and a full-time EMT job is definitely do-able.

Anyone considering this path should go for it. Heed the advice about checking out the job market. If you have a major hospital, or better yet, a hospital/university system nearby it's likely they offer a class, or that someone can point you to the best program and give you job advice. Quality is very important, as they vary wildly.

I've hit a major stumbling block at every point in the road (getting Hep-B immunized in less than a month!) but have gotten through them all, so I'd be happy to answer questions about this path.

 

[BostonEMT]

This too is the route I'm taking. I'm 25, finishing paramedic school next summer and returning to start an undergraduate biology degree in the fall. I plan on working to pay for school and to gain experience before applying (eventually) to medical school. Kudos to you and to all of us aspiring clinicians who got their start in EMS! It can and does happen.

"Typically in larger cities EMTs are only used as volunteers."

This may be the case in Missouri but I guarantee you it is simply not true at all for virtually the rest of the country. Where did you get this idea?

 

[hector219]

I'm going to guess that this is related mostly to fire services, which in large cities typically run the 9-1-1 service. It's hard to get on a fire service no matter who you are, and especially for EMT-Bs.

I found this attitude out there, but it largely ignores the fact that there is life outside of the fire department. Hospitals, transport, private ems... these all use EMTs.

I highly recommend looking at hospital jobs, as this has given me a wonderful experience in terms of patient contact and breadth of experience with disorders and diseases. However, if you can find a job that will give you experience using your paramedic skills, like intubation, you'll be miles ahead of all of us. The hardest part will probably be making sure you don't look cocky when you already have many of the skills we don't learn till residency!

 

[howelljolly]

I suggest you get nothing less than a 3.7 undergrad GPA

 

[hector219]

howelljolly, Is that just a general suggestion?

 

[howelljolly]

Yes and no. Its a general suggestion to anyone applying to med school. Its also specific for us EMS folks, a warning not to spread yourself too thin and lose sight of what is really important to med school admission committees. There are thousands of people applying to med school every year, and the initial screening is based on GPA. If your GPA isnt high enough to get your application from the secratary's desk to the admission committee, it doesnt matter what kind of EMS experience you have.

Also in my own experience as a med student and a paramedic. Your ALS skills don't matter all that much on the wards. Starting an IV and getting labs is 9pm pre-round scutwork for a med student, because the nurse didnt do it. It only makes it faster scutwork for me, because Im used to starting IVs while traveling at 60mph. On the wards, noone's going to know if you learned something in med school, or in medic school. Most of the time, I can't pinpoint where I learned a particular thing. Honestly, on most days, I forget that I was a medic.

The situation where I will admit that ALS experience is of use is during a cardiac arrest on the floor. Even though you arent going to be running to code, the resident who is, is scared stiff. A calm reminder of what to do next, or calm suggestion goes a long way, Ive noticed.

Anyway, Im just reminding you. GPA is the most important thing for you.

 

[hector219]

Ok, I get it.

I was thinking of how those skills translate to later skills. Ability to start an IV at 60 MPH should certainly mean you'll jump into starting arterial lines faster. Having a calm attitude in a stressful situation. Dealing with the stress of death and suffering. I'm hoping these things provide a headstart, though not a direct correlation of skills.

When i started my job I had schedule conflicts and my manager asked "are you here for work or school." I lied and said work. Of course, when i go to work, that is my focus, but if I ever have a situation where the job impairs my schooling, I'm out of there.