dpm to md

[suckermc]

i was googling something on podiatry, and i found this. if the link doesn't work, pm me, and ill send you the article. enjoy.


(from podiatry today)








Forum:
Should We Add 'MD' To Our Credentials
- By John McCord, DPM


I’ve been too busy during the past 29 years trying to become a good podiatrist to worry about whether I should also be a MD. The old question of whether DPMs should also become MDs has been trotted out recently by another publication. Many of the respected members of our profession believe it would be good for us to have dual degrees. The respect of the medical community is one of the main selling points on the dual degree debate.
However, I’m happy being a DPM. I doubt having “MD” attached to my name would make me any happier or generate more respect from my medical colleagues. I always assume those who disrespect me do so for purely personal reasons, not because I am a DPM.
Some interesting methods of conferring the coveted MD degree have been proposed. Some feel the only difference in our training is obstetrics and psychiatry. So I guess we get a cram course in delivering babies and shrinking heads and then, presto, we are MDs. I don’t know about the rest of you but my podiatric medical education lacked a few more courses than those two, which separate me from my colleagues who attended medical and osteopathic colleges. I don’t think cram courses in obstetrics and psychiatry will make us ready to become fully trained MDs.
Another method of conferring the MD is for DPMs to travel to lovely islands in the Caribbean for a year or so of “medical school.” This would probably be fun. It also keeps a few DPMs off the street for a couple of years. However, what do they have after all that extra training? They can’t get a license unless they do about 15 years of residency training and find a state that recognizes diplomas granted from entrepreneurs.
This brings me back to the question: what good would the MD degree be to me? I’m respected in my community. I serve on the board of directors of my hospital. I am chief of surgery of the hospital. I have been president of the county medical society.
I get free coffee and doughnuts from the physician’s lounge every morning. I have a physician’s parking sticker on my Volkswagen.
I don’t need the MD degree and I don’t want one. I have worked too hard to make the DPM degree meaningful and respected in my community. I enjoy a high level of professional respect and so do my younger DPM colleagues. We are the physicians of choice for complex foot and ankle care. It took a lot of hard work as DPMs to achieve that. If we have “MD” slapped on the end of our names, it will simply water down our legacy as DPMs.
To my DPM colleagues who feel they must have “MD” after their names, go to a bona fide medical or osteopathic college. Put in the extra four years and a few more years of residency and earn the distinction the hard way. Guess what? You won’t become a better podiatrist for it. We learn the medicine we need in podiatry school. You will just be older, really tired and probably burned out before you start offering your skills to patients. The patients who do come to you will come because of the DPM behind your name, provided you choose to keep it there.
The MD degree isn’t the meal ticket it once was. I sit on the credentials committee of our hospital and I can tell you that no doctor gets admitting privileges just because of the degree behind the name. All physicians must have the training and experience to warrant any privilege that is requested. Our credentials committee turned away two MDs who requested privileges during the past three months. They had the MD degree but their training was inadequate or too old for them to qualify.
There is a place in the sun for a doctor with both DPM and MD degrees. I believe we should open our residencies to MDs. Those who qualify could emerge with quality podiatric residency training and a DPM degree. This could help ease the current crisis of a shortage of applicants to podiatry colleges. I have had many of my MD friends ask if such a program is available. They are not dumb. They see we have a professional degree that defines what we do and patients come see us because of our degrees.
A young man joined my podiatry class in my third year. He was a MD, who had watched a podiatrist operate on his mother’s bunion. He did the math and quickly concluded that podiatrists have a better lot in professional life than primary care MDs. Think about it.

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[mrjbb]

Thank's man I like this thread.

 

[SAFOOT]

What happens to all those students that are only obtaining DPM's, since there is no option for MD. What are the harms it will have for us, or will we also have the option for a dual?

 

[molldoll2010dpm]

I feel that those who are seeking MD degress in the DPM field should consider going to MD school and let the rest of us enjoy our DPM profession. I don't see any reason for an DPM/MD degree.

 

[CareBear9984]

I agree!

 

[feetman]

Its not about the titles behind your name that get you the respect from others. IT is what you are capable of doing and how good you are at something that gains the respects. As podiatrists, we are the expert of the lower extremies, so as long as we know our stuffs and doing a fine job, it doesn't if we are dpm or md/dpm, we get the same respect.

 

[Far Cry]

Regarding the reputation of our own DPM programs as seen by DPMs themselves, which schools have the most respectable programs?

 

[AustinFinklea]

Its not about the titles behind your name that get you the respect from others. IT is what you are capable of doing and how good you are at something that gains the respects. As podiatrists, we are the expert of the lower extremies, so as long as we know our stuffs and doing a fine job, it doesn't if we are dpm or md/dpm, we get the same respect.

I fully agree with all of you posters. At the end of the day, DPM's merit respect in the medical field just like any physician, regardless of the MD, DO or DPM. The only difference is this: If a DPM, who is willing to spend an extra 2 years of med school (more than likely the DPM professional degree would clep out of MS1 and MS2 years at Med school) then an additional 5 years of orthopedic residency plus a one year fellow in foot and ankle surgery (clearly a practicing DPM pursuing med school to specialize in something totally different than foot and ankle surgery would be insane), then they are doing it for the bigger paycheck and soley for the fact that they were ashamed from day one of becoming a DPM. People like that should never have been admitted anyways. Save spots for students who really want it!!!!

The bottom line is more money and the whole pride and prestige thing.

 

[dawg44]

I fully agree with all of you posters. At the end of the day, DPM's merit respect in the medical field just like any physician, regardless of the MD, DO or DPM. The only difference is this: If a DPM, who is willing to spend an extra 2 years of med school (more than likely the DPM professional degree would clep out of MS1 and MS2 years at Med school) then an additional 5 years of orthopedic residency plus a one year fellow in foot and ankle surgery (clearly a practicing DPM pursuing med school to specialize in something totally different than foot and ankle surgery would be insane), then they are doing it for the bigger paycheck and soley for the fact that they were ashamed from day one of becoming a DPM. People like that should never have been admitted anyways. Save spots for students who really want it!!!!

The bottom line is more money and the whole pride and prestige thing.

Or they wanted better more complete training. 4 years of medical school, a 5 year ortho residency and 1 year of fellowship are easily discounted around here like it's a walk in the park. Ortho Residency is a breeze to get into I can't believe we can't get more than 500 applicants for these 3 ortho spots. (Sarcasm Off)

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Or they wanted better more complete training. 4 years of medical school, a 5 year ortho residency and 1 year of fellowship are easily discounted around here like it's a walk in the park. Ortho Residency is a breeze to get into I can't believe we can't get more than 500 applicants for these 3 ortho spots. (Sarcasm Off)

I do believe that it is more of a complete training but I always go back to the JBJS article that states the training of a general orthopod is extremely lacking in the area of the foot and ankle. And that being said, even a F&A orthopod only receives about 1 year and 3 months of foot and ankle training.

Orthopedics is so broad and diverse that residency is very complete training but don't you feel that general orthopods are a jack of all trades and a master of none??? I have no ortho training and I am sure the principles of bone healing are true throughout the body but knowing all of the procedures there are in the lower extremity how can anyone remember thousands of procedures for the whole body??? Do you think that they master 1 procedure and then try to pigeon hole all bunions into a Lapidus?

Dawg, I'm not trying to piss you off just want your opinion on that; and maybe your thoughts on a 1 year general, 2 years general ortho, and 2-3 years of specialized training. Would it help the patients and the profession to increase the level of skill each ortho has in 1 area?

 

[dawg44]

I do believe that it is more of a complete training but I always go back to the JBJS article that states the training of a general orthopod is extremely lacking in the area of the foot and ankle. And that being said, even a F&A orthopod only receives about 1 year and 3 months of foot and ankle training.

Orthopedics is so broad and diverse that residency is very complete training but don't you feel that general orthopods are a jack of all trades and a master of none??? I have no ortho training and I am sure the principles of bone healing are true throughout the body but knowing all of the procedures there are in the lower extremity how can anyone remember thousands of procedures for the whole body??? Do you think that they master 1 procedure and then try to pigeon hole all bunions into a Lapidus?

Dawg, I'm not trying to piss you off just want your opinion on that; and maybe your thoughts on a 1 year general, 2 years general ortho, and 2-3 years of specialized training. Would it help the patients and the profession to increase the level of skill each ortho has in 1 area?

I am definitely biased as you know and I'm am going to tell you my training is the best and my poo smells like roses. I think the training in other parts of the body is invaluable for whatever field an orthopod goes into. Using priniciples and techniques from other parts of the body can get you out of a jam or make you think about a better way to accomplish goals. It is hard to explain other than what I just said if you haven't done it. Most take general call anyway.As far as general ortho some are masters of alot of things and need no fellowship, others probably need it. I think most orthopods are a jack of all trades due to the board certification process, whether they are a master depends on alot of things (i.e residency, skill set, motivation).

 

[AustinFinklea]

Or they wanted better more complete training. 4 years of medical school, a 5 year ortho residency and 1 year of fellowship are easily discounted around here like it's a walk in the park. Ortho Residency is a breeze to get into I can't believe we can't get more than 500 applicants for these 3 ortho spots. (Sarcasm Off)

Dude, you talk about this stuff like you read it in a book..... ANYBODY knows that if one needed a major foot or ankle surgery, it would be a toss up between a DPM or a MD/DO. The fact that DPMs go on to get a medical degree means that they are in it for the money, period. DPMs DO not salary higher than any MD/DO surgeon (there is the exception to every statement, however) which is unfortunate because they should.

As far as general ortho some are masters of alot of things and need no fellowship, others probably need it. It is all in the residency.

Are you seriously telling me that an ortho surgeon, with only his basic 5 year residency training under his belt is going to be specialized enough to concentrate soley on the foot and ankle? You are right, having a great residency in areas where there is plenty of trauma, sports, etc will give a great opportunity for a training surgeon. Do you think that when your grandma goes to see her doc for a hip replacement surgery, he/she hasnt spent extra training in a fellowship in that particular field? I would never go to a surgeon for something so specialized as a joint replacement if I new they never recieved extra training. The bottom line is this, there is a reason why there are fellowships. They arent implemented for doctors that couldnt learn it during their residency. You ought to get your facts straight......

BTW, I am glad your poo smells

 

[dawg44]

Dude, you talk about this stuff like you read it in a book..... ANYBODY knows that if one needed a major foot or ankle surgery, it would be a toss up between a DPM or a MD/DO. The fact that DPMs go on to get a medical degree means that they are in it for the money, period. DPMs DO not salary higher than any MD/DO surgeon (there is the exception to every statement, however) which is unfortunate because they should.



Are you seriously telling me that an ortho surgeon, with only his basic 5 year residency training under his belt is going to be specialized enough to concentrate soley on the foot and ankle? You are right, having a great residency in areas where there is plenty of trauma, sports, etc will give a great opportunity for a training surgeon. Do you think that when your grandma goes to see her doc for a hip replacement surgery, he/she hasnt spent extra training in a fellowship in that particular field? I would never go to a surgeon for something so specialized as a joint replacement if I new they never recieved extra training. The bottom line is this, there is a reason why there are fellowships. They arent implemented for doctors that couldnt learn it during their residency. You ought to get your facts straight......

BTW, I am glad your poo smells

The pay issue has been debated here before and the bottomline is this I bring more to the table with my ability to take call and being an orthopedic surgeon. That is elitist, but one of the biggest reasons. You can yell all you want about increased pay, but do you think insurance companies are going to be waiting in line to give out more money?

What are some of the cases in trauma? Do you think residents do a trauma rotation and never see a calcaneus, talus or pilon fracture?
What about peds? Never see any clubfeet?
What about sports? Never do any ankle arthroscopy, etc, etc.
Ortho residents perform foot and ankle cases during trauma, sports and pediatrics and during their foot and ankle rotation. All programs have their strengths and weaknesses. That is my point. I'm waiting with baited breath for you to quote the Pinzer article. I can't wait.

Yes, I have seen some orthopods concentrate totally in foot and ankle and have done no fellowship at all. Obviously their program was very strong in that area but they take general call as well.

Do you do a hand fellowship so you can do carpal tunnels and trigger fingers even though you may have done a couple hundred or so during residency? No you do it to take the CAQ and do the complicated cases when you get out. Eventually your practice may work into that, but plenty of ortho guys do carpal tunnels and trigger fingers with no fellowship.

What if 3 or 4 of your trainers were joint trained guys and you did hundreds during residency? You think they graduate and don't know how to a total joint?

Have you taken care of any grandmas that need a total hip replacement? No you haven't because if you did you would know that the majority of total joints put in are done by orthopedic surgeons that are not fellowship trained in total joint arthroplasty.
Heck, I'm a foot and ankle orthopod and I don't think a orthopod needs a fellowship in trauma or foot and ankle to fix an ankle fracture.

Bottomline is this, sometimes fellowships are done for credentials and ability to take a CAQ. That is the motivation for alot of orthopods. Ask any chief resident and some will tell you this. Those are the facts. Facts you wouldn't know because you aren't an orthopod and they aren't your colleages, but they are mine. I'm not denying that some do it for the training, but that is not the only motivation.

 

[dawg44]

I do believe that it is more of a complete training but I always go back to the JBJS article that states the training of a general orthopod is extremely lacking in the area of the foot and ankle. And that being said, even a F&A orthopod only receives about 1 year and 3 months of foot and ankle training.

Orthopedics is so broad and diverse that residency is very complete training but don't you feel that general orthopods are a jack of all trades and a master of none??? I have no ortho training and I am sure the principles of bone healing are true throughout the body but knowing all of the procedures there are in the lower extremity how can anyone remember thousands of procedures for the whole body??? Do you think that they master 1 procedure and then try to pigeon hole all bunions into a Lapidus?

Dawg, I'm not trying to piss you off just want your opinion on that; and maybe your thoughts on a 1 year general, 2 years general ortho, and 2-3 years of specialized training. Would it help the patients and the profession to increase the level of skill each ortho has in 1 area?

Dude you never piss me off. This board is too boring too often. I'm sorry I didn't answer your final question. I think it might help,but I think the goal of most ortho residencies is to put out well trained general orthopods and let them choose where to put their emphasis. Then there is the issue of general call. It is getting harder and harder for hospitals to get their ortho covered and turning out subspecialty guys right out of residency will hurt that even more.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Dude you never piss me off. This board is too boring too often. I'm sorry I didn't answer your final question. I think it might help,but I think the goal of most ortho residencies is to put out well trained general orthopods and let them choose where to put their emphasis. Then there is the issue of general call. It is getting harder and harder for hospitals to get their ortho covered and turning out subspecialty guys right out of residency will hurt that even more.

I can understand that point. Well knowing the shortage of orthos, why do foot and ankle orthopods still exist??? Would it not benefit our patients for orthopods to pursure other areas and let the pods take the lower extremity call???

 

[dawg44]

I can understand that point. Well knowing the shortage of orthos, why do foot and ankle orthopods still exist??? Would it not benefit our patients for orthopods to pursure other areas and let the pods take the lower extremity call???

Same reason podiatrists exist. There are alot of benefits to foot and ankle as you know. Sit down surgery, elective cases, few emergencies that can't be handled by general orthopods on call (unlike hand) and some people just love the anatomy and biomechanics, guaranteed marketability and demand in nearly any city just by being a F&A orthopod. Again this will sound elitist but most F&A orthopods feel like they do a much better job than a podiatrist.

 

[AustinFinklea]

Same reason podiatrists exist. There are alot of benefits to foot and ankle as you know. Sit down surgery, elective cases, few emergencies that can't be handled by general orthopods on call (unlike hand) and some people just love the anatomy and biomechanics, guaranteed marketability and demand in nearly any city just by being a F&A orthopod. Again this will sound elitist but most F&A orthopods feel like they do a much better job than a podiatrist.

Dawg44, I am not, by any stretch, trying to troll here. I just have one hypothetical question: suppose an older woman was walking down to stairs to grab a bottle of canned chili to heat up for lunch; she takes a nasty tumble and hurts herself quite badly. Do you think (and again, this is purely speculation and intrigue) she would go to a podiatrist or a F&A orthopod directly, knowing she was going to need some pretty major surgery?

 

[dawg44]

Dawg44, I am not, by any stretch, trying to troll here. I just have one hypothetical question: suppose an older woman was walking down to stairs to grab a bottle of canned chili to heat up for lunch; she takes a nasty tumble and hurts herself quite badly. Do you think (and again, this is purely speculation and intrigue) she would go to a podiatrist or a F&A orthopod directly, knowing she was going to need some pretty major surgery?

More than likely neither. Playing percentages she would probably go to a general orthopedic surgeon that had treated her family in the past and she had a good repoire with. That or she would ask someone else if they need and good orthopedic surgeons. That is the most likely scenario.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

More than likely neither. Playing percentages she would probably go to a general orthopedic surgeon that had treated her family in the past and she had a good repoire with. That or she would ask someone else if they need and good orthopedic surgeons. That is the most likely scenario.

Agreed. She would go to the ER and unless the ER doctors have a good relationship with a pod or if their is a pod on staff; Ortho is getting the call.

 

[krabmas]

Same reason podiatrists exist. There are alot of benefits to foot and ankle as you know. Sit down surgery, elective cases, few emergencies that can't be handled by general orthopods on call (unlike hand) and some people just love the anatomy and biomechanics, guaranteed marketability and demand in nearly any city just by being a F&A orthopod. Again this will sound elitist but most F&A orthopods feel like they do a much better job than a podiatrist.

Most pods think they do a better job than the other pod down the street.

There are even pods out there that think they do a better job than some orthos F and A or not.

That is just human nature to think that you are the best, not elitest.

 

[jonwill]

Agreed. She would go to the ER and unless the ER doctors have a good relationship with a pod or if their is a pod on staff; Ortho is getting the call.

Are you guys following me? We were just called to the ER today for an old lady who was walking down her basement stairs, fell, and sustained a calc fracture.

Anyway, who gets called is usually always hospital dependent. I've been to hospitals where pod takes ALL of the foot and ankle call, I've been to hospitals where ortho and pod split foot and ankle trauma call, and I've been to hospitals where pods take very little ankle call, foot call, or very little of both. It basically comes down to who is on staff.

It doesn't even matter because Dawg and I have already decided that we are going into business together. He is doing all of the surgery and I'll be providing the pedicures

 

[krabmas]

Are you guys following me? We were just called to the ER today for an old lady who was walking down her basement stairs, fell, and sustained a calc fracture.

Anyway, who gets called is usually always hospital dependent. I've been to hospitals where pod takes ALL of the foot and ankle call, I've been to hospitals where ortho and pod split foot and ankle trauma call, and I've been to hospitals where pods take very little ankle call, foot call, or very little of both. It basically comes down to who is on staff.

It doesn't even matter because Dawg and I have already decided that we are going into business together. He is doing all of the surgery and I'll be providing the pedicures

you can both work in the chain of foot and ankle clinics that I plan to open that will provide foot and ankle surgery as well as medi pedis.

 

[Northerner]

I can understand that point. Well knowing the shortage of orthos, why do foot and ankle orthopods still exist??? Would it not benefit our patients for orthopods to pursure other areas and let the pods take the lower extremity call???

Interesting take. The same question might be posed toward podiatry. And is.

 

[jonwill]

Interesting take. The same question might be posed toward podiatry. And is.

I think that podiatry has progressed to the level where it could indeed just be an MD specialty. In many hospitals around the nation, podiatric physicians already are the premiere foot and ankle surgeons.

Theoretically, you could bag the DPM programs and just make it an MD/DO residency like the other medical specialties. Don't hold your breath though!

However, as no MD clinically does what podiatrists do (which is why we exist), and very few surgically do what we do, suggesting that we could be "replaced" is quite ridiculous.

 

[cool_vkb]

I know iam not a pod. so iam not qualified to make big big assumptions or pass comments on profession. But the pods i shadowed. i asked him once and he said, this type of DPM Vs Ortho of conversations are mainly limited to students and new graduates. He said in real life very few people give a damn abt it.

he said that in his practice experience he never had any conflict or any conforntation with a Ortho or a MD who opposed him, or said anything demeaning ,etc. he said there are so many patients out there that an intelligent DPM and F & A Orthos can both take and still will not be able to serve all the patients. The problem usually arises when everyone wants to practice in the same area. and the whole market is saturated.

And MDs need to realize that Podiatry is an established profession. Its not something invented in 2004. There's nothing Orthos or MDs can do abt it. Its here to stay and its here to develop and get more and more autonomy. This is a fact. The DPM of 70s cudnt do much than the DPM of 80s. The DPMs of 80s were very restricted in their scope if compared to DPM of today. the DPM of 2000 (whom i shadowed) does surgeries, admits patients, consults nursing homes,etc just as any other MD. Infact i think his practice is 10 times bigger than any MD in that area. Ofcourse he has a very customer and good marketting skills. May be the DPM of 2015 will be doing more than this.

Recently in NJ, a new law as passed according to which now Pods can First Assist any surgery and paid the 16% of the Surgery. Though this has nothing to do with Podiatry but it shows that we pods have so much outside training apart from foot, that the State of NJ is now allowing Pods as First Assists. we can First Assist a Surgeon and get paid as any other physican wud be paid if he decides to first assist, unlike the PAs or NPs who get paid only 13% or less.

 

[krabmas]

I know iam not a pod. so iam not qualified to make big big assumptions or pass comments on profession. But the pods i shadowed. i asked him once and he said, this type of DPM Vs Ortho of conversations are mainly limited to students and new graduates. He said in real life very few people give a damn abt it.

he said that in his practice experience he never had any conflict or any conforntation with a Ortho or a MD who opposed him, or said anything demeaning ,etc. he said there are so many patients out there that an intelligent DPM and F & A Orthos can both take and still will not be able to serve all the patients. The problem usually arises when everyone wants to practice in the same area. and the whole market is saturated.

And MDs need to realize that Podiatry is an established profession. Its not something invented in 2004. There's nothing Orthos or MDs can do abt it. Its here to stay and its here to develop and get more and more autonomy. This is a fact. The DPM of 70s cudnt do much than the DPM of 80s. The DPMs of 80s were very restricted in their scope if compared to DPM of today. the DPM of 2000 (whom i shadowed) does surgeries, admits patients, consults nursing homes,etc just as any other MD. Infact i think his practice is 10 times bigger than any MD in that area. Ofcourse he has a very customer and good marketting skills. May be the DPM of 2015 will be doing more than this.

Recently in NJ, a new law as passed according to which now Pods can First Assist any surgery and paid the 16% of the Surgery. Though this has nothing to do with Podiatry but it shows that we pods have so much outside training apart from foot, that the State of NJ is now allowing Pods as First Assists. we can First Assist a Surgeon and get paid as any other physican wud be paid if he decides to first assist, unlike the PAs or NPs who get paid only 13% or less.

cool - "pod is here to stay" and "there's nothing you can do about it" are not valid arguments in a debate of whether pod and F and As are the same or different. It is also not a valid argument in a discussion in mostly anything.


Since one pod that you shadowed said that the MD vs DPM does not happen out of school well then I guess that is the gospel that I will go by. That is crap. there will always be people in and out of school that think they are better than the next person. This DPM vs MD thing does happen out of school it just might not be to your face.

example: residency program... dpm director thinks they are friends with ortho. up until this year there were no ortho residents. This year the ortho residents start. up until this year pods got foot and ankle trauma call. since the ortho residents start this year the ortho department sent out an email that said all fractures in the ER must be called to ortho.

but the DPM thinks there is a great relationship with ortho?

 

[cool_vkb]

Got it boss! he he he! that residency director must be now pissed off. I hope thats not that place where you are planning to do your residency.

 

[dawg44]

I know iam not a pod. so iam not qualified to make big big assumptions or pass comments on profession. But the pods i shadowed. i asked him once and he said, this type of DPM Vs Ortho of conversations are mainly limited to students and new graduates. He said in real life very few people give a damn abt it.

he said that in his practice experience he never had any conflict or any conforntation with a Ortho or a MD who opposed him, or said anything demeaning ,etc. he said there are so many patients out there that an intelligent DPM and F & A Orthos can both take and still will not be able to serve all the patients. The problem usually arises when everyone wants to practice in the same area. and the whole market is saturated.

And MDs need to realize that Podiatry is an established profession. Its not something invented in 2004. There's nothing Orthos or MDs can do abt it. Its here to stay and its here to develop and get more and more autonomy. This is a fact. The DPM of 70s cudnt do much than the DPM of 80s. The DPMs of 80s were very restricted in their scope if compared to DPM of today. the DPM of 2000 (whom i shadowed) does surgeries, admits patients, consults nursing homes,etc just as any other MD. Infact i think his practice is 10 times bigger than any MD in that area. Ofcourse he has a very customer and good marketting skills. May be the DPM of 2015 will be doing more than this.

Recently in NJ, a new law as passed according to which now Pods can First Assist any surgery and paid the 16% of the Surgery. Though this has nothing to do with Podiatry but it shows that we pods have so much outside training apart from foot, that the State of NJ is now allowing Pods as First Assists. we can First Assist a Surgeon and get paid as any other physican wud be paid if he decides to first assist, unlike the PAs or NPs who get paid only 13% or less.

That may be his opinion but politics do exist. As I stated in a post a few months ago that I am too lazy to look up is a classic example of politics. A friend of mine as a condition of employment at a hospital that was desperate for ortho stated he wanted it that only surgeons with ACGME or AOA residencies could operate. We that effectively closed a podiatry practice and now one of the pods that didn't want to leave works for him. So it does happen.

 

[jonwill]

That may be his opinion but politics do exist. As I stated in a post a few months ago that I am too lazy to look up is a classic example of politics. A friend of mine as a condition of employment at a hospital that was desperate for ortho stated he wanted it that only surgeons with ACGMA or AOA residencies could operate. We that effectively closed a podiatry practice and now one of the pods that didn't want to leave works for him. So it does happen.

Dawg, just wondering if you knew why there were so few F&A fellowship openings this year. I counted only 26 slots nationwide?

 

[kovamies23]

That may be his opinion but politics do exist. As I stated in a post a few months ago that I am too lazy to look up is a classic example of politics. A friend of mine as a condition of employment at a hospital that was desperate for ortho stated he wanted it that only surgeons with ACGMA or AOA residencies could operate. We that effectively closed a podiatry practice and now one of the pods that didn't want to leave works for him. So it does happen.

ACGME, not ACGMA.......

 

[cool_vkb]

That may be his opinion but politics do exist. As I stated in a post a few months ago that I am too lazy to look up is a classic example of politics. A friend of mine as a condition of employment at a hospital that was desperate for ortho stated he wanted it that only surgeons with ACGMA or AOA residencies could operate. We that effectively closed a podiatry practice and now one of the pods that didn't want to leave works for him. So it does happen.

yes Sir, i do remember that. but that is like an extreme case. I dont think thats common. yesterday night, i did a research on all local and big hospital systems in Chicago and Suburbs. And in each hospital, under the Speciality "foot and ankle surgery or Podiatric Surgery". there were tons of names coming of DPMs. I have to practice in Illinois. And so far illinois goes i dont think thats the problem here. And regarding Emergency call. May be its very exciting and rewarding to go and help someone in middle of night but just as someone who is entering the profession, i personally wudnt want to leave the bed in middle of night or 2am to go and save patients. Let the orthos be happy with that. Its just my opinion. I know some people like Emergency calls,etc. My cousin is a Gen surgeon in suburbs and he is fed up of being on call. Poor man doenst have any decent family life.

 

[dawg44]

yes Sir, i do remember that. but that is like an extreme case. I dont think thats common. yesterday night, i did a research on all local and big hospital systems in Chicago and Suburbs. And in each hospital, under the Speciality "foot and ankle surgery or Podiatric Surgery". there were tons of names coming of DPMs. I have to practice in Illinois. And so far illinois goes i dont think thats the problem here. And regarding Emergency call. May be its very exciting and rewarding to go and help someone in middle of night but just as someone who is entering the profession, i personally wudnt want to leave the bed in middle of night or 2am to go and save patients. Let the orthos be happy with that. Its just my opinion. I know some people like Emergency calls,etc. My cousin is a Gen surgeon in suburbs and he is fed up of being on call. Poor man doenst have any decent family life.

Typo fixed re:ACGME
Call is one of the real hidden beauties of Foot and Ankle. Hand has pigeonholed itself because of the CAQ. Most orthopods now will not take care of hand trauma because of it, but guess what? Someone has to. They have made themselves exclusive by enacting the CAQ, but it makes some hand surgeon have to take care of it all as well. Morning and Night. They can probably get paid for call, but that is another issue. In foot and ankle most orthopods (general, trauma or otherwise) or DPMs or whoever is on call will take care of it that night and stabilize it. "Cold Trauma" or trauma on an elective basis is always the best. It doesn't hurt to get paid for what you do on an elective basis as well.
Jonwill- Not sure I haven't even looked to know that. I'll ask around.

 

[Northerner]

I think that podiatry has progressed to the level where it could indeed just be an MD specialty. In many hospitals around the nation, podiatric physicians already are the premiere foot and ankle surgeons.

Theoretically, you could bag the DPM programs and just make it an MD/DO residency like the other medical specialties. Don't hold your breath though!

However, as no MD clinically does what podiatrists do (which is why we exist), and very few surgically do what we do, suggesting that we could be "replaced" is quite ridiculous.

It's insulting to read that podiatry students think MD's should move out of the territory they're trying to invade (as Dr_Feelgood posted earlier).

Just because currently ortho MD's are happy to refer out bunions and diabetic neuropathies and ulcers to podiatrists, doesn't mean they couldn't, or wouldn't be competent to do it, which really looked like what you were implying. You know what's "ridiculous"? Suggesting that podiatrists could easily replace an entire subset of orthopedists, and in the same breath insisting that the work of a podiatrist is irreplacable. Let's learn some humility. I'll be the first to say MOST of the things a physician does could probably be done by someone else. If you want to be considered equals with MD's, I'd recommend not trying to point out ways you think you're better than MD's. You'd be better off just doing the superior work you say you do, keeping your focus and expertise narrow, and giving the respect you would hope for in return. If you really can offer something better than the next guy, the pendulum will sway in your favor. It's up to you to prove that.

As I've always said, I respect what podiatrists do a great deal. But can you have our (arguably) best specialty? No.

 

[jonwill]

It's insulting to read that podiatry students think MD's should move out of the territory they're trying to invade (as Dr_Feelgood posted earlier).

Just because currently ortho MD's are happy to refer out bunions and diabetic neuropathies and ulcers to podiatrists, doesn't mean they couldn't, or wouldn't be competent to do it, which really looked like what you were implying. You know what's "ridiculous"? Suggesting that podiatrists could easily replace an entire subset of orthopedists, and in the same breath insisting that the work of a podiatrist is irreplacable. Let's learn some humility. I'll be the first to say MOST of the things a physician does could probably be done by someone else. If you want to be considered equals with MD's, I'd recommend not trying to point out ways you think you're better than MD's. You'd be better off just doing the superior work you say you do, keeping your focus and expertise narrow, and giving the respect you would hope for in return. If you really can offer something better than the next guy, the pendulum will sway in your favor. It's up to you to prove that.

As I've always said, I respect what podiatrists do a great deal. But can you have our (arguably) best specialty? No.

I'm not sure how you got ANY of that out of my post but it's obvious that you're misunderstanding me. Arguably, any doctor COULD do any other doctors job if trained to do so. Especially amongst MD's who all do the same rotations while in school. I'm not questioning my MD collegues competence. But specialties exist for obvious reasons. In my opinion, podiatrists are as irreplacable as any other specialist. I question whether you understand the extent of our training. During our 3 year residency training, our exposure to foot and ankle surgery is far superior to general ortho. You can argue all day about F&A ortho vs podiatry but not enough orthopods even do F&A to make a difference. The majority of foot and ankle surgery done in the country is done by podiatrists. For instance, there are 26 openings this year for F&A ortho fellowships and I'm willing to bet that more than a few of those will go unfilled (any given year 30-50 percent go unfilled) or will be filled by, yes, podiatrists.

At the residency that I will be attending, I will do tons of bunions, hammertoes, plantar fasiotomies, amputations, etc. However, I will also do hundreds of ankle and pilon fractures. I will do many flat foot and cavus foot reconstructions. I will do fusions gallore. Not to mention the various clinical entities that I will treat and yes, theoretically, an MD could easily learn and treat. When I am done, I will have over 2000 FOOT AND ANKLE procedures.

I'm guessing that maybe you have not had much exposure to a well trained podiatrist and that is OK. But don't be so insecure. In no way am I implying that DPM's are superior to MD's. I am saying that our training is superior to any MD in foot and ankle medicine and surgery. But any specialist is going to say that. In fact, find me a specialist that doesn't say that, within their specialty, they are the best at what they do (and no, that does not mean that they think they are superior to everybody else). I have no clue what your specialty is (or you may be a student still) but I bet you believe that you can do it better than a radiologist or an FP could do it. Internists are the best when it comes to medicine, anesthesiologists are the best when it comes to, well, you get my point!

I won't allow anyone to infer that podiatrists are second class citizens or desperately dependent on another branch of medicine. Podiatrists are a very integral part of medicine and when you think about it, we are all dependent upon each other. FYI, most of our clinic based consults come from FP's unless the pod is in an ortho group in which case they do come from ortho many times. As far as hospital based podiatry is concerned (ER aside), it has been my experience that the majority of consults come from IM.

 

[cool_vkb]

It's insulting to read that podiatry students think MD's should move out of the territory they're trying to invade (as Dr_Feelgood posted earlier).

Just because currently ortho MD's are happy to refer out bunions and diabetic neuropathies and ulcers to podiatrists, doesn't mean they couldn't, or wouldn't be competent to do it, which really looked like what you were implying. You know what's "ridiculous"? Suggesting that podiatrists could easily replace an entire subset of orthopedists, and in the same breath insisting that the work of a podiatrist is irreplacable. Let's learn some humility. I'll be the first to say MOST of the things a physician does could probably be done by someone else. If you want to be considered equals with MD's, I'd recommend not trying to point out ways you think you're better than MD's. You'd be better off just doing the superior work you say you do, keeping your focus and expertise narrow, and giving the respect you would hope for in return. If you really can offer something better than the next guy, the pendulum will sway in your favor. It's up to you to prove that.

As I've always said, I respect what podiatrists do a great deal. But can you have our (arguably) best specialty? No.

Listen Boss! i know Krabmas said me not to use this point as a debate or argument. But here's two lines for you... "Podiatrists are here to stay and you cant do a thing abt it.". Now you can live happily in co-existance or you can burn out of jeaolosy or superiority or inferiority. what ever your case may be. But we are here to stay and prosper and thrive and believe me or bet with me a $1000000 in next 20-30 yrs like DOs, we are also gonna be getting universal recognition. Just as your counterparts made fun or felt offensive abt DOs 30yrs back. You are now feeling insulting or sad abt Podiatry today. But friend as i said, there's nothing you can do. Be in peace.dont burn on something which you have no control.

If you feel really insulting or feel bad bcoz Pods are now thinking they are better. Why dont you go and sue your AMA or other professions for allowing us to develop in first place. When the AMA allowed us to establish as a recognized profession. then onofcourse there is going to be research, development, progress in the field. No profession is going to be limited what it was in the beginning. If you have read EVOLUTION theory. you will undertsand it. AMERICA is a total different healthcare system. You bet with me, in next 30yrs, chances are that Podiatrists may even become the sole specialists in Foot & Ankle. may be orthos will focus on other areas and give foot & ankle to pods. 50 yrs back , no one even in their dream thought DOs will be working side by side MDs. look around you, today DOs are in every speciality an MD can be in. No offense to anyone but this is a fact. The same is gonna happen with podiatry. What do you expect. Podiatrists still cutting and trimming nails. and singing "hail to the ortho!'. No sir! it aint gonna happen. just as Optometrists gave Opthamologists a shock by performing laser surgery in certain state, just as CRNAs gave a shock to the Anesthesiologist by starting their own independent practices, just as PAs gave a shock to Family practioners by opening their own clinics in Michigan (99% ownership rule)., even chiros in orgegon can deliver babies. What exactly do you expect us from Podiatrists. atleast we are equally trained like u guys.

Podiatrists take 4 yrs or Schooling, then 3 yrs of residency and even a fellowship. Some great people even go to switzerland and russia for extra training. Now what do you want them to do. Cut nails? or accept that they are lower than Orthos.What makes you think they are less competent then orthos. Why is there so much anger and insecurity in u. No man! it aint gonna happen. Get used to living it. May be some orthos will try to creat hindrance, may be some will succeed in some places. But tats not the end of world. if you see a broad picture all over USA. Allied health professional (non-MD practioners) are rising and succeeding.

i came here few years back and i understood it, then iam sure being an american, iam sure you know this very well. America runs on lobbying. whose lobby is stronger there word is accepted. May be pods will get a so strong lobby that they cud pass so many laws in favor of them . The laws that you guys had thought abt in ur nightmares only. he he he he! and rememebr once what has been established its very hard to close it. There is always progress never degradation. So wat ever laws will be passed will be here to stay for good. So if you wanna be laugh or feel terrified or feel angry. do wat u wanna do. but u cant do anything abt it. Learn to co-exist in peace man. dont live this attitude of we are the best. You are not in some asian country or central europe.

 

[jonwill]

Listen Boss! i know Krabmas said me not to use this point as a debate or argument. But here's two lines for you... "Podiatrists are here to stay and you cant do a thing abt it.". Now you can live happily in co-existance or you can burn out of jeaolosy or superiority or inferiority. what ever your case may be. But we are here to stay and prosper and thrive and believe me or bet with me a $1000000 in next 20-30 yrs like DOs, we are also gonna be getting universal recognition. Just as your counterparts made fun or felt offensive abt DOs 30yrs back. You are now feeling insulting or sad abt Podiatry today. But friend as i said, there's nothing you can do. Be in peace.dont burn on something which you have no control.

If you feel really insulting or feel bad bcoz Pods are now thinking they are better. Why dont you go and sue your AMA or other professions for allowing us to develop in first place. When the AMA allowed us to establish as a recognized profession. then onofcourse there is going to be research, development, progress in the field. No profession is going to be limited what it was in the beginning. If you have read EVOLUTION theory. you will undertsand it. AMERICA is a total different healthcare system. You bet with me, in next 30yrs, chances are that Podiatrists may even become the sole specialists in Foot & Ankle. may be orthos will focus on other areas and give foot & ankle to pods. 50 yrs back , no one even in their dream thought DOs will be working side by side MDs. No offense to anyone but this is a fact. What do you expect. Podiatrists still cutting and trimming nails. and singing "hail to the ortho!'. No sir! it aint gonna happen. just as Optometrists gave Opthamologists a shock by performing laser surgery in certain state, just as CRNAs gave a shock to the Anesthesiologist by starting their own independent practices, just as PAs gave a shock to Family practioners by opening their own clinics in Michigan (99% ownership rule)., even chiros in orgegon can deliver babies. What exactly do you expect us from Podiatrists. atleast we are equally trained like u guys.

Podiatrists take 4 yrs or Schooling, then 3 yrs of residency and even a fellowship. Some great people even go to switzerland and russia for extra training. Now what do you want them to do. Cut nails? or accept that they are lower than Orthos.What makes you think they are less competent then orthos. Why is there so much anger and insecurity in u. No man! it aint gonna happen. Get used to living it. May be some orthos will try to creat hindrance, may be some will succeed in some places. But tats not the end of world. if you see a broad picture all over USA. Allied health professional (non-MD practioners) are rising and succeeding.

i came here few years back and i understood it, then iam sure being an american, iam sure you know this very well. America runs on lobbying. whose lobby is stronger there word is accepted. May be pods will get a so strong lobby that they cud pass so many laws in favor of them . The laws that you guys had thought abt in ur nightmares only. he he he he!

Wow, settle down there boss

 

[Northerner]

I'm not sure how you got ANY of that out of my post but it's obvious that you're misunderstanding me. Arguably, any doctor COULD do any other doctors job if trained to do so. Especially amongst MD's who all do the same rotations while in school. I'm not questioning my MD collegues competence. But specialties exist for obvious reasons. In my opinion, podiatrists are as irreplacable as any other specialist. I question whether you understand the extent of our training. During our 3 year residency training, our exposure to foot and ankle surgery is far superior to general ortho. You can argue all day about F&A ortho vs podiatry but not enough orthopods even do F&A to make a difference. The majority of foot and ankle surgery done in the country is done by podiatrists. For instance, there are 26 openings this year for F&A ortho fellowships and I'm willing to bet that more than a few of those will go unfilled (any given year 30-50 percent go unfilled) or will be filled by, yes, podiatrists.

At the residency that I will be attending, I will do tons of bunions, hammertoes, plantar fasiotomies, amputations, etc. However, I will also do hundreds of ankle and pilon fractures. I will do many flat foot and cavus foot reconstructions. I will do fusions gallore. Not to mention the various clinical entities that I will treat and yes, theoretically, an MD could easily learn and treat. When I am done, I will have over 2000 FOOT AND ANKLE procedures.

I'm guessing that maybe you have not had much exposure to a well trained podiatrist and that is OK. But don't be so insecure. In no way am I implying that DPM's are superior to MD's. I am saying that our training is superior to any MD in foot and ankle medicine and surgery. But any specialist is going to say that. In fact, find me a specialist that doesn't say that, within their specialty, they are the best at what they do (and no, that does not mean that they think they are superior to everybody else). I have no clue what your specialty is but I bet you believe that you can do it better than a radiologist or an FP could do it. Internists are the best when it comes to medicine, anesthesiologists are the best when it comes to, well, you get my point!

I won't allow anyone to infer that podiatrists are second class citizens or desperately dependent on another branch of medicine. Podiatrists are a very integral part of medicine and when you think about it, we are all dependent upon each other. FYI, most of our clinic based consults come from FP's unless the pod is in an ortho group in which case they do come from ortho many times. As far as hospital based podiatry is concerned (ER aside), it has been my experience that the majority of consults come from IM.

You may have interpreted my post as being more defensive than I meant.

Whatever. If you were in our shoes, you'd react the same way. MD's are being pushed around and out from all sides - falling compensation, rising malpractice, encroachment of peripheral care providers upon scope of practice...As I said, if you're really the best at what you do, you'll get the support you need. Like that old saying (Emerson?): "build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door". And I always welcome a better mousetrap.

The larger issue isn't whether podiatrists are the best at F&A. It's how far peripheral care providers want to go in their expansion of scope, and why they will or will not get it. If someone else can really provide better care than an MD, no matter what it is we're talking about, absolutely give them the tools to do it. But when so many non-medical factors influence so heavily on the practice of medicine these days (i.e. financial), you can see why it'd be hard, even for the humblest of MD's, to throw their weight behind volunteering another section of their scope of practice to someone new when we're not entirely convinced it is for the reason that they're the best man for the job. That's why continuous superior performance is so important for the profession of podiatry, at the very least, it'll shut up the whiners. But the party line podiatry is touting says that they're the best at F&A and are trained specifically to focus on that. The best thing for podiatry to do is not to exert effort expanding, but rather perfecting. To use your example, you wouldn't have a radiologist managing your chemotherapy, and you wouldn't have a podiatrist replacing your hip.

 

[Northerner]

Listen Boss! i know Krabmas said me not to use this point as a debate or argument. But here's two lines for you... "Podiatrists are here to stay and you cant do a thing abt it.". Now you can live happily in co-existance or you can burn out of jeaolosy or superiority or inferiority. what ever your case may be. But we are here to stay and prosper and thrive and believe me or bet with me a $1000000 in next 20-30 yrs like DOs, we are also gonna be getting universal recognition. Just as your counterparts made fun or felt offensive abt DOs 30yrs back. You are now feeling insulting or sad abt Podiatry today. But friend as i said, there's nothing you can do. Be in peace.dont burn on something which you have no control.

If you feel really insulting or feel bad bcoz Pods are now thinking they are better. Why dont you go and sue your AMA or other professions for allowing us to develop in first place. When the AMA allowed us to establish as a recognized profession. then onofcourse there is going to be research, development, progress in the field. No profession is going to be limited what it was in the beginning. If you have read EVOLUTION theory. you will undertsand it. AMERICA is a total different healthcare system. You bet with me, in next 30yrs, chances are that Podiatrists may even become the sole specialists in Foot & Ankle. may be orthos will focus on other areas and give foot & ankle to pods. 50 yrs back , no one even in their dream thought DOs will be working side by side MDs. look around you, today DOs are in every speciality an MD can be in. No offense to anyone but this is a fact. The same is gonna happen with podiatry. What do you expect. Podiatrists still cutting and trimming nails. and singing "hail to the ortho!'. No sir! it aint gonna happen. just as Optometrists gave Opthamologists a shock by performing laser surgery in certain state, just as CRNAs gave a shock to the Anesthesiologist by starting their own independent practices, just as PAs gave a shock to Family practioners by opening their own clinics in Michigan (99% ownership rule)., even chiros in orgegon can deliver babies. What exactly do you expect us from Podiatrists. atleast we are equally trained like u guys.

Podiatrists take 4 yrs or Schooling, then 3 yrs of residency and even a fellowship. Some great people even go to switzerland and russia for extra training. Now what do you want them to do. Cut nails? or accept that they are lower than Orthos.What makes you think they are less competent then orthos. Why is there so much anger and insecurity in u. No man! it aint gonna happen. Get used to living it. May be some orthos will try to creat hindrance, may be some will succeed in some places. But tats not the end of world. if you see a broad picture all over USA. Allied health professional (non-MD practioners) are rising and succeeding.

i came here few years back and i understood it, then iam sure being an american, iam sure you know this very well. America runs on lobbying. whose lobby is stronger there word is accepted. May be pods will get a so strong lobby that they cud pass so many laws in favor of them . The laws that you guys had thought abt in ur nightmares only. he he he he! and rememebr once what has been established its very hard to close it. There is always progress never degradation. So wat ever laws will be passed will be here to stay for good. So if you wanna be laugh or feel terrified or feel angry. do wat u wanna do. but u cant do anything abt it. Learn to co-exist in peace man. dont live this attitude of we are the best. You are not in some asian country or central europe.

Wow, pretty angry. I don't think there's anything in there I care to dignify by addressing specifically. You're just a bitter guy.

 

[cool_vkb]

Wow, pretty angry. I don't think there's anything in there I care to dignify by addressing specifically. You're just a bitter guy.

well sir! its just the truth. you see in 30yrs, this is wat is gonna happen.

 

[Northerner]

well sir! its just the truth. you see in 30yrs, this is wat is gonna happen.

You do more to hurt podiatry than help it.

 

[cool_vkb]

.

 

[cool_vkb]

.

 

[cool_vkb]

You do more to hurt podiatry than help it.

he he he! dont worry speaking on SDN forum wont affect podiatry. There is whole network54 out there. when that whole thing cudnt affect it, what will i affect it.

 

[jonwill]

You may have interpreted my post as being more defensive than I meant.

Whatever. If you were in our shoes, you'd react the same way. MD's are being pushed around and out from all sides - falling compensation, rising malpractice, encroachment of peripheral care providers upon scope of practice...As I said, if you're really the best at what you do, you'll get the support you need. Like that old saying (Emerson?): "build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door". And I always welcome a better mousetrap.

The larger issue isn't whether podiatrists are the best at F&A. It's how far peripheral care providers want to go in their expansion of scope, and why they will or will not get it. If someone else can really provide better care than an MD, no matter what it is we're talking about, absolutely give them the tools to do it. But when so many non-medical factors influence so heavily on the practice of medicine these days (i.e. financial), you can see why it'd be hard, even for the humblest of MD's, to throw their weight behind volunteering another section of their scope of practice to someone new when we're not entirely convinced it is for the reason that they're the best man for the job. That's why continuous superior performance is so important for the profession of podiatry, at the very least, it'll shut up the whiners. But the party line podiatry is touting says that they're the best at F&A and are trained specifically to focus on that. The best thing for podiatry to do is not to exert effort expanding, but rather perfecting. To use your example, you wouldn't have a radiologist managing your chemotherapy, and you wouldn't have a podiatrist replacing your hip.

I couldn't agree more and I see where you are coming from. I think the movement to continue increasing the scope of podiatrists is extremely limited and consists largely of podiatrists that couldn't get into an MD program and "settled" for podiatry. The majority of pods would agree that we sell ourselves as foot and ankle surgeons and that should be, and is our focus. I don't like people comparing DO's and DPM's because I think it portrays the wrong idea. While DPM's have made leaps and bounds to become accepted by the medical community (as have DO's and hence the comparison), I don't think DPM's have any delusions of one day being able to apply for MD residencies or continuing up the leg. What would be the point of a DPM degree? We are foot and ankle surgeons.

In my opinion, the best thing podiatric medicine could do at this point is to successfully establish a universal scope of practice and stick with it. If you are not aware, scope of practice differs from state to state. I think this creates a lot of confusion and misunderstanding. Anyway, don't get me started on that!!!

Good luck with your medical career.

 

[Northerner]

he he he! dont worry speaking on SDN forum wont affect podiatry. There is whole network54 out there. when that whole thing cudnt affect it, what will i affect it. but man! honestly, as an MD where where are you go and explain. You are everyhwere in this forum. From Pharmacy to optometry to podiatry. Common man! you cant be like this. You look more worried abt these professions and their autonomos status than abt ur own good for MD. I know this is not abt podiatry, this is abt the whole thing. you are calling me angry but sir seeing your posts everywhere in SDN forums and different threads, honestly you are more frustrated by this whole health care system and non-md practioners. Relax man. there is nothing you can do. this is how it and how its gonna be. First of all how do you manage to get so much time to be so active on SDN. Dont have you to study or prepare for medical school.


Common Sir! chill out, may be you are taking this too seriously.

Listen pal, after your third edit of your little post to try to act more flippant and condescending, it's probably poor form to resort to petty character attacks. Not to mention, I have the right and privilege to debate pertinent issues in medicine on an internet forum, in threads dedicated to such topics. It's also pretty funny that you told me to relax so many times after your little rants up there.

Not only do I have a right to voice my opinion and perspective on issues like this, I have a responsibility. You think you can't change anything? Fine. Continue to rant and rave in your broken trains of thought all you want. I happen to want to debate the issues, convey my ideas and hear out the ideas of other intelligent people who may disagree. The fact that I'm interested in your opinion (or was, until I realized you were ridiculously malignant) obviously means nothing to you, and I'm glad for the intelligent responses of people like jonwill. While we may debate out and disagree on some of the finer points, I feel confident of my respect for counterperspectives on the issue I care about and the colleagues I'll be working with. Which is why you do more to hurt podiatry than help it.

 

[Northerner]

I couldn't agree more and I see where you are coming from. I think the movement to continue increasing the scope of podiatrists is extremely limited and consists largely of podiatrists that couldn't get into an MD program and "settled" for podiatry. The majority of pods would agree that we sell ourselves as foot and ankle surgeons and that should be, and is our focus. I don't like people comparing DO's and DPM's because I think it portrays the wrong idea. While DPM's have made leaps and bounds to become accepted by the medical community (as have DO's and hence the comparison), I don't think DPM's have any delusions of one day being able to apply for MD residencies or continuing up the leg. What would be the point of a DPM degree? We are foot and ankle surgeons.

In my opinion, the best thing podiatric medicine could do at this point is to successfully establish a universal scope of practice and stick with it. If you are not aware, scope of practice differs from state to state. I think this creates a lot of confusion and misunderstanding. Anyway, don't get me started on that!!!

Good luck with your medical career.

Likewise.

 

[cool_vkb]

Listen pal, after your third edit of your little post to try to act more flippant and condescending, it's probably poor form to resort to petty character attacks. Not to mention, I have the right and privilege to debate pertinent issues in medicine on an internet forum, in threads dedicated to such topics. It's also pretty funny that you told me to relax so many times after your little rants up there.

Not only do I have a right to voice my opinion and perspective on issues like this, I have a responsibility. You think you can't change anything? Fine. Continue to rant and rave in your broken trains of thought all you want. I happen to want to debate the issues, convey my ideas and hear out the ideas of other intelligent people who may disagree. The fact that I'm interested in your opinion (or was, until I realized you were ridiculously malignant) obviously means nothing to you, and I'm glad for the intelligent responses of people like jonwill. While we may debate out and disagree on some of the finer points, I feel confident of my respect for counterperspectives on the issue I care about and the colleagues I'll be working with. Which is why you do more to hurt podiatry than help it.

I agree its my fault. Iam done..... Sorry for previous posts.

 

[Northerner]

If making an MD realize the present position of Podiatry and other allied health professions is hurting the profession then i dont undertand how its gonna hurt. If you really feel that i wrote anything wrong in my first post, plzz do point out. I just said the words which are 100% true. May be my way of speaking was wrong. i agree, iam very hyper type of person. But i never said anything that was wrong. Its a real basic fact of life. The profession is growing and so is its autonomy. Why do you want us to be still the same 1920s profession?

"Making an MD realize the present position of podiatry"? You're not even in the field, pal. This'll be the last I post to you.

 

[cool_vkb]

"Making an MD realize the present position of podiatry"? You're not even in the field, pal. This'll be the last I post to you.

I agree man! iam sorry! iam done with this topic. Best of luck in your debates.

 

[dawg44]

I couldn't agree more and I see where you are coming from. I think the movement to continue increasing the scope of podiatrists is extremely limited and consists largely of podiatrists that couldn't get into an MD program and "settled" for podiatry. The majority of pods would agree that we sell ourselves as foot and ankle surgeons and that should be, and is our focus. I don't like people comparing DO's and DPM's because I think it portrays the wrong idea. While DPM's have made leaps and bounds to become accepted by the medical community (as have DO's and hence the comparison), I don't think DPM's have any delusions of one day being able to apply for MD residencies or continuing up the leg. What would be the point of a DPM degree? We are foot and ankle surgeons.

In my opinion, the best thing podiatric medicine could do at this point is to successfully establish a universal scope of practice and stick with it. If you are not aware, scope of practice differs from state to state. I think this creates a lot of confusion and misunderstanding. Anyway, don't get me started on that!!!

Good luck with your medical career.

I agree, I hear the DO/ DPM comparison all of the time here and it is really not a valid arguement. DOs have ran their own osteopathic hospitals for decades and they had a free standing healthcare system that has blended over the years with the allopathic world. There are no podiatric hospitals. And DOs as family physicians as well, not in a hospital system, have fueled the acceptance in the public's eyes. It is a completely different scenario.