Do you prefer "student doctor" or "medical student"?

[Blade28]

A sub-I or extern is not a mis-representation. At my school, people say, "she's not a medical student, she's a sub-I" to delineate between the seniors and the 3rd years doing a core clerkship.

On my medicine sub-I, I had to explain to a number of my patients how it works, because although I introduced myself as a medical student, at my school we replace an intern - so when the nurse paged "the doctor" I came, I placed orders, etc, and they would be like, WTF, you're my doctor!". So I would explain I was a senior medical student who was only acting as their doctor under supervision before becoming a MD. Some understood, some said "ok, doctor"

I find that usually patients don't really understand the difference between an intern, resident, fellow or "physician"/"doctor." They understand "attending." They understand "medical student" (or just "student"). But there's no way they'd really grasp the difference between an MS-III and MS-IV.

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just saying usually they're overwhelmed with everything else that's going on in the hospital that they tend to only familiarize themselves with the one or two main physicians that they talk to the most. Often this will include the junior resident.

And trust me, I've suppressed many a chuckle when talking to a patient who will refer to my medical student by some amusing noun.

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[Ypo.]

And trust me, I've suppressed many a chuckle when talking to a patient who will refer to my medical student by some amusing noun.

Do share.

 

[Blade28]

Do share.

Nurse
High schooler
Undergrad
Volunteer
Tech
Candystriper
Follower
Underling
Assistant
"Person"
"Friend"
Helper

 

[Winged Scapula]

I agree patients don't understand the everything about how the hierarchy works, I'm just saying I have never met anyone who doesn't seem to understand that a medical student is somewhere in the process of becoming a doctor. And yes I am male, so no one has mistaken me for a nursing student.

That is where the difference lies...people do not know that medical school = doctor school and not nursing school when they are dealing with a female. Even the younger generation who you think would be more familiar with this strange concept of women being allowed to work outside of the home and as doctors.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I find that usually patients don't really understand the difference between an intern, resident, fellow or "physician"/"doctor." They understand "attending."

I wouldn't give them that much credit...at least not to understand what the term means. My own family doesn't (then again, I've had to explain every step of the way from intern to resident, to Chief resident and fellow. Now a new term to learn: attending).

They understand "boss" and you can try and educate them that
"attending" = boss = finished training.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Do share.

I had this attending vascular surgeon who used to call me "Kimmy". Fine, except he would do it in front of patients and sometimes put his arm around me as if to emphasize to the patient that "Kimmy will be doing your discharge meds, etc.".

I had several patients think I was his nurse but at least one who thought I was his wife or girlfriend! I guess a lot of private practice physicians have their wife "help out" in the office so patients think it works the same in the hospital.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Nurse
High schooler
Undergrad
Volunteer
Tech
Candystriper
Follower
Underling
Assistant
"Person"
"Friend"
Helper

I've heard "B team", "minions", fan club, and "posse"...

 

[Hard24Get]

I find that usually patients don't really understand the difference between an intern, resident, fellow or "physician"/"doctor." They understand "attending." They understand "medical student" (or just "student"). But there's no way they'd really grasp the difference between an MS-III and MS-IV.

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just saying usually they're overwhelmed with everything else that's going on in the hospital that they tend to only familiarize themselves with the one or two main physicians that they talk to the most. Often this will include the junior resident.

And trust me, I've suppressed many a chuckle when talking to a patient who will refer to my medical student by some amusing noun.

nothing you said was mean - if you look back, I said I don't introduce myself as a sub-I or anything, I was just pointing out that the person who does so is not lying

 

[Hard24Get]

interestingly, I introduced myself as a medical student the other day, and a few minutes into the H&P the patient was like - "you mean you're a student doctor, right?" So maybe the latter term is clearer?

 

[fun8stuff]

That is where the difference lies...people do not know that medical school = doctor school and not nursing school when they are dealing with a female. Even the younger generation who you think would be more familiar with this strange concept of women being allowed to work outside of the home and as doctors.

it would not surprise me much that they don't understand "medical school" to equal "Doctor school". If you look around SDN you will see that there are some podiatrists, chiropractors, optometrists, dentists, physical therapists, and PAs who claim to go to "medical school". It is no wonder the public is confused.

 

[Ypo.]

I'd be freaking HAPPY to be called a volunteer.

The truth is that we're all paying to be standing around feeling like idiots.

 

[Blade28]

nothing you said was mean - if you look back, I said I don't introduce myself as a sub-I or anything, I was just pointing out that the person who does so is not lying

Fair enough!

it would not surprise me much that they don't understand "medical school" to equal "Doctor school". If you look around SDN you will see that there are some podiatrists, chiropractors, optometrists, dentists, physical therapists, and PAs who claim to go to "medical school". It is no wonder the public is confused.

In a similar manner, often when talking to patients who claim to have a mother/sibling/nephew/cousin/friend/neighbor who's a "nurse," often it's really an MA/unit clerk/office assistant.

 

[PeeWee137]

i got called a resident's mini-me once. i dont look anything like him, not even a girl version of him, and im 5'6"!!

ive always said medical student, never a problem, and ive been around many different patient populations. after i interview/examine them, they usually end up chit-chatting with me cause i look like their granddaughter/niece/son's wife's second cousin. so it always happens to come out that i will be a doctor in x amount of months.

i was doing a urology elective and some patients asked me to leave the room for being a girl, then my doc would tell them, "dont you know that there are more girls training to become doctors than boys? shes gonna be treating you one day." so after that guilt trip i was allowed back in, but unfortunately i had to also check their prostates

 

[Tired]

I had this attending vascular surgeon who used to call me "Kimmy". Fine, except he would do it in front of patients and sometimes put his arm around me as if to emphasize to the patient that "Kimmy will be doing your discharge meds, etc.".

That's kind of hot.

 

[deleted87716]

I've heard "B team", "minions", fan club, and "posse"...

Clones
Second string
Doclings (oddly appropriate...look at a rounding team going down the hall sometime).

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

I liked when the attending called everybody (including the residents, students, and pharmacist) his entourage.

 

[Winged Scapula]

That's kind of hot.

Eww...it was so NOT not. Lucky, I enjoyed being around him otherwise.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Fair enough!



In a similar manner, often when talking to patients who claim to have a mother/sibling/nephew/cousin/friend/neighbor who's a "nurse," often it's really an MA/unit clerk/office assistant.

YES! One of my pet peeves...the mother/wife/sibling/cousin/friend is NEVER a nurse but almost always a patient care assistant. I can only imagine how it irritates real nurses who have spent years in school to be compared with a HS GED holder who takes vitals and writes them down on a napkin.

I've had patients tell me their relative X was a radiologist or was going to school to be a radiologist. A tech of course.

 

[Winged Scapula]

i was doing a urology elective and some patients asked me to leave the room for being a girl, then my doc would tell them, "dont you know that there are more girls training to become doctors than boys? shes gonna be treating you one day." so after that guilt trip i was allowed back in, but unfortunately i had to also check their prostates

We used to joke with the Urology interns a few years ago about those problems and say we were going to offer the patients who refused a female physician: "ok, well all that's left is the gay male urologist!" (which was their choice of interns at the time - female or gay male)!

 

[Winged Scapula]

it would not surprise me much that they don't understand "medical school" to equal "Doctor school". If you look around SDN you will see that there are some podiatrists, chiropractors, optometrists, dentists, physical therapists, and PAs who claim to go to "medical school". It is no wonder the public is confused.

Really? Interesting. I'll have to start hanging out in those forums!

 

[Blade28]

I can only imagine how it irritates real nurses who have spent years in school to be compared with a HS GED holder who takes vitals and writes them down on a napkin.

Not that RNs ever write down vitals on a napkin.

Most codes and even some traumas that I've been in involved the note-taker scribbling down vitals, meds given, etc. on a piece of paper towel, then later carefully and neatly transferring that information to the chart.

Happens a lot during transfers from the floor to the ICU as well.

 

[fun8stuff]

Really? Interesting. I'll have to start hanging out in those forums!

or just drive around town or take a look at a phone book and u will see that "podiatric physician", "chiropractic physician", "optometric physician" are becoming commonplace.

 

[Blade28]

or just drive around town or take a look at a phone book and u will see that "podiatric physician", "chiropractic physician", "optometric physician" are becoming commonplace.

I think there's a lot of disagreement as to exactly who has the right to be called a "physician" (MDs and DOs only? or ODs, DDSes, etc.?).

But medical school is medical school. MDs and DOs only.

 

[snowhite]

I agree that as a female, many patients (hell, even other health providers) think "nursing student" when you say you're a "medical student".

After reading this I've tried to cover all my bases and it seems to have worked okay so far. I now introduce myself as "Medical Student Doctor Snowhite working with Dr. Attending in Psych".

The patients keep calling me doctor though - part of it is because the attending calls us Dr. Snowhite - she forgets to add "student" sometimes. This disturbs me because I don't want to be misrepresented, but oh well.

 

[Winged Scapula]

or just drive around town or take a look at a phone book and u will see that "podiatric physician", "chiropractic physician", "optometric physician" are becoming commonplace.

Like Blade said above, there's some reasonable (IMHO) debate about who can call themselves a physician or a doctor. I do think that many use the term to obsfuscate but legitimately these are doctoral level degrees, so I'm not sure they can't call themselves a physician.

But calling optometry or chiropractice, etc. school medical school IS wrong, imHO.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Not that RNs ever write down vitals on a napkin.

Most codes and even some traumas that I've been in involved the note-taker scribbling down vitals, meds given, etc. on a piece of paper towel, then later carefully and neatly transferring that information to the chart.

Happens a lot during transfers from the floor to the ICU as well.

Or writing on arms, scrub pants, etc. Lots of useful places!

 

[Tired]

Personally, I never liked the whole "student doctor" label. In my mind, it would probably be a more appropriate label for residents: ie - subject = 'doctor', adjective = 'student'. I mean really, medical students aren't doctors who are also students.

 

[Blade28]

Personally, I never liked the whole "student doctor" label. In my mind, it would probably be a more appropriate label for residents: ie - subject = 'doctor', adjective = 'student'. I mean really, medical students aren't doctors who are also students.

I agree. It's especially confusing when you say it quickly, as "student doctor Smith" can be heard as "doctor Smith' only by the patient.

 

[Hard24Get]

I agree. It's especially confusing when you say it quickly, as "student doctor Smith" can be heard as "doctor Smith' only by the patient.

ever since I started reading this thread, I have been planning to introduce myself as student doctor just to gauge the effect, but the words die on my lips and I say "medical student", instead. Just can't do it.

 

[Blade28]

ever since I started reading this thread, I have been planning to introduce myself as student doctor just to gauge the effect, but the words die on my lips and I say "medical student", instead. Just can't do it.

Nothing wrong with that!

You'll be "Doctor Hard24Get" soon enough. And believe me, the thrill of being called "Doctor" wears off VERY quickly in internship when you start getting bombarded with pages.

 

[45408]

"Hey, Dr. Student, give me a hand over here."

- Trauma resident to me on a long call night.

How much would it suck if your last name actually was Student? "Hello, I'm Dr. Student....."

 

[chagall]

With the trauma resident on another team, it was, "hey, med student! Wanna take out some staples?"

 

[goodies]

i'd rather be "student doctor" because i feel that patients respect what i say more than when i say "medical student." the word student in there makes them wonder why the hell i'm there when they wanna see a real doctor.

 

[Tired]

i'd rather be "student doctor" because i feel that patients respect what i say more than when i say "medical student." the word student in there makes them wonder why the hell i'm there when they wanna see a real doctor.

Sounds like your patients understand your role better than you do.

 

[RockShox]

Like Blade said above, there's some reasonable (IMHO) debate about who can call themselves a physician or a doctor. I do think that many use the term to obsfuscate but legitimately these are doctoral level degrees, so I'm not sure they can't call themselves a physician.

But calling optometry or chiropractice, etc. school medical school IS wrong, imHO.

Interesting premise...

May I add that there are many in the field that say the term medical doctor and physician are NOT synonymous. Particularly outside North America

A person called doctor holds a doctorate degree.

A person called physician is one licensed to practice medicine

by these definitions even a resident who has not yet taken step III would not be a physician

Some take it farther to say that the term applies to board certified (i.e. physician of ophthalmology) but this is less common.

And some of you may be interested to know that the terms physician and surgeon are definitely seperate terms not used interchangably in some countries, esp. in England.

 

[Hard24Get]

Nothing wrong with that!

You'll be "Doctor Hard24Get" soon enough. And believe me, the thrill of being called "Doctor" wears off VERY quickly in internship when you start getting bombarded with pages.

I still think you misunderstand. I doubt those who call themselves "student doctor" are doing it for the "thrill" of putting the word "doctor" in their name. It just sounds stupid to me, is all, and I just prefer medical student.

Besides, I already have my PhD so I am Dr. Hard24get in many circles

 

[Winged Scapula]

Interesting premise...

May I add that there are many in the field that say the term medical doctor and physician are NOT synonymous. Particularly outside North America

You are correct...given that I was educated outside of the US, I am well aware of this difference, but it does not hold in the US where I would venture that most people consider doctor = medical doctor = physician.

 

[Blade28]

And some of you may be interested to know that the terms physician and surgeon are definitely seperate terms not used interchangably in some countries, esp. in England.

Yes, very true, in England they call surgeons "Mr." instead of "Dr."

Don't get me started on surgical history/etymology, something near and dear to my heart!

Or the fact that surgery used to be a guild/apprenticeship-type field...or that surgeons used to be grouped together with barbers...

 

[Coxsuckie Virus]

I was reading a book, called "The 250 Biggest Mistakes 3rd Year Medical Students Make"

(one of which would be getting caught carrying the book around in my mind)

And they went into some detail as to why it is important for you to refer to yourself as a Medical Student as opposed to Student Doctor. I don't have the book in front of me to quote, but the reason they said this should be, is because you don't want to promote a false image of yourself to your patients. They need to know who you are and what your status is. You are NOT a doctor, regardless of how hard you are working to become one. Student Doctor implies that you are a Doctor, and are also a student. A doctor taking clarinet lessons could be called a Student Doctor. You see?

The point is, Medical Student is the proper way to identify yourself because you aren't a doctor. If that confuses a patient, you simply tell them you are well into your training to become a doctor, but not there yet. Don't fool yourselves guys, be proud of your student status. It won't last long, you'll be a doctor for many years more than you were a med student.

 

[chagall]

The point is, Medical Student is the proper way to identify yourself because you aren't a doctor. If that confuses a patient, you simply tell them you are well into your training to become a doctor, but not there yet. Don't fool yourselves guys, be proud of your student status. It won't last long, you'll be a doctor for many years more than you were a med student.

I agree...this is my problem recently, though: I tell the pt I'm a "medical student," the attending knows I'm a med student...so all should be OK, right? But on rounds, the attending consistently refers to me in front of pts as "Dr. (Last name)" and today, even said something to a pt like, "she's a great doctor, isn't she?".

I'm very uncomfortable with this since it is misrepresentation, even though I have told the pt myself that I'm a med student. I normally correct pts who call me "doctor" when we're talking together...but in this huge group on rounds and with this very old-school attending, I'm a little more hesitant. (help?!)

 

[johnnyb255]

Don't exactly see what the problem here is.

I'm sure the point has been brought up- people studying nursing are student nurses or nursing students, those studying physiotherapy are student physios or physio students, are they misrepresenting their position? Nope. There is no 'doctoring', it's medicine, thus medical student or student doctor. Same thing.

I've also seen the 'interns are student doctors so we aren't' line. I'm questioning this- I've spent 5 years in med school, you guys spend 8 years in pre-med/med, when you graduate you aren't a student any more. Doctor-in-training, junior doctor- yes. Student doctor, no. (In Australia anyway, don't know what you US people do, but I do recall a Scrubs episode which addressed this).

In the end I think it's what makes you comfortable. As long as you don't say 'I'm the doctor' or 'I'm the Department Head'. One of my mates had 'O&G Registrar' on his name-tag in MEDIV. He was a tool.

 

[baya]

"I'm a medical student, so I'm not a doctor yet, but I will be soon."

 

[menaniac]

I agree...this is my problem recently, though: I tell the pt I'm a "medical student," the attending knows I'm a med student...so all should be OK, right? But on rounds, the attending consistently refers to me in front of pts as "Dr. (Last name)" and today, even said something to a pt like, "she's a great doctor, isn't she?".

I'm very uncomfortable with this since it is misrepresentation, even though I have told the pt myself that I'm a med student. I normally correct pts who call me "doctor" when we're talking together...but in this huge group on rounds and with this very old-school attending, I'm a little more hesitant. (help?!)

I'm having the same problem. As an MS1, I do a preceptorship once a week with a Dr. in private practice, and he always introduces me as "doctor" to the patients. He actually asked me if that made me uncomfortable, and when I told him yes because its misleading, he told me that the patients needed to be misled a bit or they wouldn't let me see them and I wouldn't learn anything. #1, I'm a 1st year student with exactly 8 weeks of "training" under my belt, which mostly consists of biochem pathways and the left recurrent laryngeal nerve. I have no business "seeing" patients at all at this point. #2, the tag on my short white coat that says "Medical Student" should be a dead give-away to most of them. I don't know...seems to be a bit unethical to me, but as the lowly 1st year, I don't have much say in it. I'm much happier being referred to as "medical student", which is a more accurate descriptor.

 

[Hard24Get]

I'm having the same problem. As an MS1, I do a preceptorship once a week with a Dr. in private practice, and he always introduces me as "doctor" to the patients. He actually asked me if that made me uncomfortable, and when I told him yes because its misleading, he told me that the patients needed to be misled a bit or they wouldn't let me see them and I wouldn't learn anything. #1, I'm a 1st year student with exactly 8 weeks of "training" under my belt, which mostly consists of biochem pathways and the left recurrent laryngeal nerve. I have no business "seeing" patients at all at this point. #2, the tag on my short white coat that says "Medical Student" should be a dead give-away to most of them. I don't know...seems to be a bit unethical to me, but as the lowly 1st year, I don't have much say in it. I'm much happier being referred to as "medical student", which is a more accurate descriptor.

yeah I really hate that, too. What do attendings that do that have to say for themselves? One of my classmates got in big trouble for buying into that rationale and calling himself "Dr. X". But sometimes it is our superiors teaching this bad behavior.

 

[Tired]

yeah I really hate that, too. What do attendings that do that have to say for themselves? One of my classmates got in big trouble for buying into that rationale and calling himself "Dr. X". But sometimes it is our superiors teaching this bad behavior.

I get pretty irritated with med students who refer to themselves "Doctor" and have gone so far as to correct them in front of patients.

I haven't met too many attendings who introduce students as "Doctor".

 

[chagall]

I get pretty irritated with med students who refer to themselves "Doctor" and have gone so far as to correct them in front of patients.

Yeah, I'm the other way around...a patient will say, "remind me again, you're Dr...?" And I'll say, "I'm (first name, Last name), a 4th-year med student."

 

[Doowai]

I prefer:

Hola. Como te va? Me nombre es______. Yo Soy uno estudiante de medicina. Doctor ____ viene pronto. Que problema hoy dia?

 

[Blade28]

Never correct the attending in front of the patient (or the patient's family).

 

[Ashers]

To the subject of the thread, I don't like "Student doctor." I think it basically sounds dumb.

I get pretty irritated with med students who refer to themselves "Doctor" and have gone so far as to correct them in front of patients.

I haven't met too many attendings who introduce students as "Doctor".

I don't dare call myself Dr. Ashers. I don't even use my last name when I introduce myself to patients. Like a lot of other people said, I just say, "Hi I'm Ashers the medical student working with Dr. blah blah."

I've had so many attendings and residents call me "Doctor" then use my last name. I had an ER doctor where I worked when I got accepted to med school start calling me that too. That got confusing when I'd be in the ER, he'd yell to get my attention, and my dad would be in there working too.

I prefer:

Hola. Como te va? Me nombre es______. Yo Soy uno estudiante de medicina. Doctor ____ viene pronto. Que problema hoy dia?

I've been saying stuff like that a lot too.

 

[Thievery Corp.]

I just try to keep the "stud" in student doctor. Call me whatever you want.

















Sorry. That was just bad.