Do you prefer "student doctor" or "medical student"?

[Ypo.]

I prefer "medical student", or just "student". Student doctor feels a little misleading to me. I mean, an intern is technically a student doctor, too. (or are they a doctor student, i don't know). The point is that if I don't know, the patients probably don't know either. I prefer a term that emphasizes the fact that I really don't know jack $hit yet.

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[SkylineMD]

I have always been a big advocate for using Medical student instead of student doctor however lately while on pediatrics parents are much more likely to let you examine their child if they don't hear "student". Even though I still introduce myself as MSIII, i have noticed that if my preceptor introduces me as student doctor first, I don't get the apprehension from the parents as much. Of course for now this only applies to peds as during my 10 weeks of medicine, i didn't get the apprehension. So i guess there is an advantage to letting the patient assume something because you'll get to learn moreso than being told " i dont want any students to see me/my child"

 

[diosa428]

I've found that, with "medical student", patients seem confused sometimes and ask me if I'm going to be a nurse or a PA just as often as they ask if I'm going to be a doctor. "Student doctor" clarifies that. Also, our nursing students have IDs that say "student nurse", so why can't we be "student doctors"?

I do prefer the way "medical student" sounds over "student doctor", but I guess that could just be because I'm used to it.

 

[Final]

who cares? "big advocate"? do you travel the world giving speeches and campaigning for medical student nomenclature?

 

[lord_jeebus]

I've never had a patient confused by the concept of a "medical student." I usually say "4th year medical student" to emphasize the fact that I have some sort of qualifications and am not completely wasting their time.

I think "student doctor" is deceptive.

 

[Sean2tall]

I usually just say my name is Sean and I'm with (surgery team/pediatrics/Dr. Smith/whoever). It gets the point across that I'm not a doctor because I'm just giving them a first name and usually I am saying something along the lines of "Dr. So-and-so will be in here to see you shortly."

If somebody wanted me to give a specific intro, I would say student doctor. That is hands-down the most accurate description. As above, medical student is vague. Interns and residents are not students; they are doctors. If you were so nervous about being deceptive, you could call a resident a Junior Doctor and an attending a Senior Doctor - these are quite explicit to the patient.

Resident, intern, med student, and attending are terms that are explicit to us in the field, but to the patient, you might as well be saying, "Your child has enuresis."

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm not sure why some think "student doctor" is deceptive...its what you are.

That being said, I am aware that some are uncomfortable being introduced as "Doctor X" or "student doctor X" and IMHO, telling people you are a 4th year medical student means nothing to them (most lay public wouldn't know how long medical school is). Thus, I usually default to "this is X, he/she is one of our senior medical students" although I personally prefer the term "student doctor".

Along the same lines, patients don't know the difference between intern (most think that means you are a still a student and not a 'real doctor"), resident, etc. I think introducing yourself as "the intern, resident, etc." confuses people. As noted above, interns and residents are not students and to imply they are just reinforces the common belief that they have not graduated yet or are not doctors. Just tell them you are "Dr. X"; if they want more info, you can explain you are a "junior" member of the team or that the attending is "the boss" - whatever you are comfortable with.

I am still explaining this to my family..who can't seem to remember the information between reunions.

 

[Hard24Get]

I'm not sure why some think "student doctor" is deceptive...its what you are.

That being said, I am aware that some are uncomfortable being introduced as "Doctor X" or "student doctor X" and IMHO, telling people you are a 4th year medical student means nothing to them (most lay public wouldn't know how long medical school is). Thus, I usually default to "this is X, he/she is one of our senior medical students" although I personally prefer the term "student doctor".

Along the same lines, patients don't know the difference between intern (most think that means you are a still a student and not a 'real doctor"), resident, etc. I think introducing yourself as "the intern, resident, etc." confuses people. As noted above, interns and residents are not students and to imply they are just reinforces the common belief that they have not graduated yet or are not doctors. Just tell them you are "Dr. X"; if they want more info, you can explain you are a "junior" member of the team or that the attending is "the boss" - whatever you are comfortable with.

I am still explaining this to my family..who can't seem to remember the information between reunions.

This is true. I have even had friends say they hate when residents pretend like they're doctors because they thought resident=student.

I usually say "senior medical student" and maybe 10% realize what I am. 60% think I'm their doctor, 30% think I'm their nurse. Student doctor would probably work better and is accurate (student driver, student baker, student nurse, student doctor, etc). I think part of the reason a lot of students don't like it is because we are uncomfortable with the word "doctor" being associated with our names, but we need to accept how close we are to being doctors and own that responsibility.

The problem is that few outside of medicine understand the way med school and residency work, so terminology means nothing.

 

[Terpskins99]

Before we left MS2 year for rotations, our instructors emphasized identifying ourselves as "medical students". Makes perfect sense to me.

Like others have mentioned, patients have a hard enough time figuring out the difference between interns/residents/attendings. At least all of those guys are licensed physicians/surgeons.

Frankly, you could argue that anything other than attending is a "student doctor" (yes, I know that there's some kind of heirarchy above attending... but I haven't the foggiest idea what that is... department chiefs is all I can think of).

 

[Miami_med]

All of these things are fine and accurate. It doesn't matter, because the patient doesn't get it anyway. I introdue myself as my name, or one of the medical students working with Dr. so and so. If they seem to have a high social register, I'll say more. I honestly answer any other questions.

P.S. You know A LOT more than you think at this stage. You may feel like an idiot (as most of use do daily), but you are far more knowledgeable than even an average highly educated person about medicine. I get asked about a number of medical conditions by other professional educated people in my family or elsewhere. I sometimes don't know still, but I find that I do more and more. I don't give medical advice, but I explain a lot, and you can do that as a "student doctor."

 

[Acherona]

I've found that, with "medical student", patients seem confused sometimes and ask me if I'm going to be a nurse or a PA just as often as they ask if I'm going to be a doctor.

I know I get this all the time. I don't quite understand what is ambiguous about the term medical student. They'll respond with "oh so you're studying to be a nurse?" I don't find it offensive, just bizarre. I mean you should be able to pick up this basic vocabulary from the mass media.

I get called "doctor" on a daily basis by patients, orderlies, even doctors themselves. It is a little awkward as people can't be expected to remember our names and there is no good title to use to address us. The one I liked most was being introduced by one of my attendings as her "assistant" (probably the most accurate).

 

[Pickles20]

I've found that, with "medical student", patients seem confused sometimes and ask me if I'm going to be a nurse or a PA just as often as they ask if I'm going to be a doctor. "Student doctor" clarifies that. Also, our nursing students have IDs that say "student nurse", so why can't we be "student doctors"?

I do prefer the way "medical student" sounds over "student doctor", but I guess that could just be because I'm used to it.

I rotated at a hospital awhile back where they abbreviated the student nurse's title to "STD NURSE" on her ID badge. That got some laughs

 

[Winged Scapula]

I know I get this all the time. I don't quite understand what is ambiguous about the term medical student. They'll respond with "oh so you're studying to be a nurse?" I don't find it offensive, just bizarre. I mean you should be able to pick up this basic vocabulary from the mass media.

Without making this a discussion of bias, I'd be willing to bet that very few to none of your male classmates get asked if they are going to nursing school. Its not the term that is ambiguous, its the expectation that females in medicine are nurses.

 

[diosa428]

I've never had a patient confused by the concept of a "medical student."

Lemme guess... you're a male? Trust me, patients find "medical student" much more ambiguous when you're female.

 

[Sage880]

There's a guy at my school who keeps introducing himself as a "junior doctor". I don't know how he hasn't been arrested actually.

Once when he was taking a history a patient told him she's taking Aspirin. She asked, "do you prescribe Aspirin for this condition doctor?" His response: "I've never prescribed Aspirin for that condition before." Yeah, he's a dick.

Whoa, I'm getting a deja vu from step 1 behavioural science. "What is the appropriate action when another student is mis-leading the patients." Apparently the real-life answer is "do nothing and laugh at him behind his back".

 

[UCLAstudent]

Trust me, patients find "medical student" much more ambiguous when you're female.

I agree. Often when I introduce myself as a medical student, patients ask, "Oh, so you're going to be a nurse?"

 

[fun8stuff]

i am a guy and i still find that at least 50% of the people don't know what to make of a "medical student". I initially preferred introducing myself as "medical student", but it seems that if they didn't assume i was there to carry out experiments on them, then they assumed i would probably kill them on accident.

so i started introducing myself as "student doctor". everybody understands this better than "medical student" for some reason. most people have made the comment, "oh, so you are studying to be a doctor? ---how much longer do you have?" etc...

i don't think "student doctor" is misleading. A "student teacher" is to "Teacher" as "student doctor" is to "doctor".. and most people understand it in this same way, from my experience. i have no idea why people get so confused by medical student.

 

[Winged Scapula]

i am a guy and i still find that at least 50% of the people don't know what to make of a "medical student". I initially preferred introducing myself as "medial student", but it seems that if they didn't assume i was there to carry out experiments on them, then they assumed i would probably kill them on accident.

Maybe they misheard you and thought you said "menial student"...

or their politics were left of center and they didn't want someone "medial" working on them...

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

 

[Hard24Get]

i don't think "student doctor" is misleading. A "student teacher" is to "Teacher" as "student doctor" is to "doctor".. and most people understand it in this same way, from my experience. i have no idea why people get so confused by medical student.

Yup. You don't have to say "I'm student doctor Hard24get", like a title. You can say, "hi, I'm Hard24get, one of the student doctors"

I usually just say my name is Sean and I'm with (surgery team/pediatrics/Dr. Smith/whoever). It gets the point across that I'm not a doctor because I'm just giving them a first name and usually I am saying something along the lines of "Dr. So-and-so will be in here to see you shortly."

I think it is important to explain your role in caring for the patient the first time you meet them. Besides, I have had several residents that just go by their first name.

 

[Ypo.]

Has anyone had the experience of a doctor introducing them as a doctor when they are in fact a medical student?

It's funny, but of all the cliched 'ethical scenarios' our school made us discuss during 1st and 2nd year, this one was the one that came up most frequently in discussions. Ironically, it happened to me when I had been on the wards less than a week. I also had a medical assistant introduce me as a resident doctor at least 15 times. I always just went in and introduced myself as a student.

I haven't really had any problem introducing myself as a medical student. In peds there were a few parents who didn't want a medical student to see their kids, but I think that this is more common in peds than in other specialties.

 

[snowhite]

I personally like "medical student" but in my experience "student doctor" is preferred. My attending introduces me to patients as Doctor "snowhite" (my first name) though and it kinda feels strange to me.

 

[fun8stuff]

Maybe they misheard you and thought you said "menial student"...

or their politics were left of center and they didn't want someone "medial" working on them...

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

ha ha. i think in my case, "menial" is probably what they heard..

 

[mindquick]

why not just "doctor"? you have your MD so they should call you doctor.

 

[mfreema1]

Someone last year explained it to me this way, after I got called a nurse and then kicked out of a patient's room for introducing myself as "medical student XYZ":

When you introduce yourself with 2 words, people focus on the 2nd word. So when you say "Medical Student" - they hear "student".
When you say "Student Doctor" - they hear "doctor".

I was terribly skeptical of this, and then I started my own little study. Student doctor? I never had trouble. Medical student? Nobody knew what that meant, and assumed that I was a lab tech or a nursing student or someone trying to pass myself off as someone important.

So after about 4 months, I decided to just be "student doctor XYZ". Sometimes, patients ask for clarification. "Are you my new doctor?" And then you can clarify and say, "I'm the student working with the team; I will be a doctor in XY months. I'm here to help move things along more quickly, and I'll be coming to see you each day/regularly/whatever/etc."

Aside from a completely delirious patient, I've yet to be kicked out of a room using "student doctor". If you say it like you're supposed to be there, no troubles. I've actually had patients re-address me as Dr So&So, and refuse to call me by my first name after this approach.

 

[UDbiochem]

I concur with mfreem1. I originally used medical student, but when patients started kicking me out of their rooms, I knew I had to introduce myself differently. Doesn't help when you're a young appearing, petite female.

The attendings and residents introduce me as student doctor. A resident actually scolded me once for using medical student instead of student doctor. Especially in ER psych where the patients are already confused!!!

Either term is fine.

 

[Winged Scapula]

why not just "doctor"? you have your MD so they should call you doctor.

We're discussing students who DON'T have their degree yet and therefore are not doctors yet.

 

[beastmaster]

I've never opened a patient encounter as "medical student." I learned very quickly not to. Occasionally a patient will glance at my ID and read it themselves, and from there it's all downhill. While technically the most accurate, "medical student" is the most confusing thing that you can possibly tell a patient. Usually I just say I'm with the surgical team. Not sure what I'll be saying on my future rotations, "I'm with the family practice team" doesn't have the same kick to it.

In an ideal world, every patient is entitled to know. But in this same ideal world, every patient would be required to understand the vast and complicated medical hierarchies - that the med student and the pgy-1 "doctor" will often take the same H&P, present to the same senior/attending, perform the same simple procedure under ultimately the same supervision, stick the same finger up the same... etc.

When I performed my first I&D, the surgical intern mistakenly introduced me as doctor. He verbally guided me through every step, which I thought the patient would find very awkward. But at the end, after all the screaming, the patient commented on how nice it was for young doctors training each other, and thanked us for the care we provided. On one hand, I could have clarified that I was just a student, my first month in the hospital, and most likely the patient would have asked the "doctor" to do it and for me to watch, and like most people I learn very little by watching. On the other hand, I did a good job and learned a valuable skill from which my future patients will benefit. The next time I was able to do it with minimal verbal guidance, just someone watching, and so on.

In another instance, I was walking with a different intern to remove a patient's staples in a postop wound check. "Hi, I'm Dr. X, and he's the student. Would you like him to remove the staples or should I?" The patient quickly said "you do it, he can watch." I've remove my share of staples, so while the intern was struggling (it was actually his first time), I was just watching the patient's TV. A few staples into the removal, patient looked at me and asked, "why aren't you watching him?"

 

[Kazema]

This is an interesting discussion, I've never really thought about it this way - I've always just introduced myself as "medical student" and hadn't noticed any problems yet. I can see how it could be confusing though, and my preceptors have always introduced me as "student doctor X" which I found a little uncomfortable. Usually I introduce myself by saying something like, "Hi, my name is X, I'm a medical student working with the treatment team taking care of you." I always just assumed they knew that I was studying to be a doctor, but I could see how they could possibly think I was something else.

I think though that in my case stereotyping works in my favor; I'm an Asian male, and I think that when someone sees an Asian male in a white coat they assume he's a doctor or is training to be a doctor.

 

[71263]

'Medical student' here. Hell, sometimes I dont even go that far. Usually Ill say 'Hi, my name is _______, and Im a student working with the doctors here.' Most of the patients have no problem with me interviewing and examining them and their kids.

 

[superoxide]

I use "medical student". I think "student doctor" is confusing for the patients. They're probably thinking whether you are a student or a doctor. You can't be both.

 

[domer621]

When you introduce yourself with 2 words, people focus on the 2nd word. So when you say "Medical Student" - they hear "student".
When you say "Student Doctor" - they hear "doctor".

So after about 4 months, I decided to just be "student doctor XYZ". Sometimes, patients ask for clarification. "Are you my new doctor?" And then you can clarify and say, "I'm the student working with the team; I will be a doctor in XY months. I'm here to help move things along more quickly, and I'll be coming to see you each day/regularly/whatever/etc."

Agreed 100%.

 

[deleted29780]

Agreed 100%.

we used to say student doctor in my school, for some years now...the term has been replaced by medical student...no wonder we have difficulty with clerking patients sometimes. Point well taken, will start addressing myself as student doctor from now on. One thing which usually works for me is i approach patients with alot of confidence. If you seem hesitant it goes a long way to work against you. For example all students assist in surgeries being performed on their patients. Lets say i have a case of fibroid due for a myomectomy the next day. i usually start by saying i am going to do a final history and examination of you before your surgery tomorrow. i will be presenting your case to my consultant. And indeed they see me the next morning when the get their early morning dose of a sedative. I review them before they reel them into theater. They see me during the induction of anaesthesia. And if they have a spinal, they see me entering the theater in my full surgeon. Joke is, i usually secure the retractor and pass on instruments. LOL
Guess what, the next morning when i come over to review them....they address me as Doctor. how cool is that.

 

[kito]

"Hey, Dr. Student, give me a hand over here."

- Trauma resident to me on a long call night.

 

[Sureshot83]

I always said "medical student" when I was on my IM rotation. It's the only rotation I've completed so far. Only once did I have a problem with a patient say outright that she wanted a doctor. In that situation, I explained to the patient what my role on the team was, and how after I did whatever I had to do, I would go and report back to Dr. X (the resident) who would be in later in the day to follow up. I would then thank them for their invaluable assistance in my medical education and other BS.

A few times I had patients who I could tell were somewhat skeptical of my qualifications. In these cases, I have found it very helpful to "show off" a little. For example, if someone tells you they have a medical history of DVT, immediately ask follow-up questions like "Have you ever had other blood clots?" (shows you know what a DVT is), "Were you treated with heparin, lovenox, and/or coumadin, and are you still on coumadin now?" (shows you know how to manage the basic treatment of DVT), and "Did you by chance develop a pulmonary embolism or other breathing difficulty when you had it?" (shows you know what the most serious consequence of a DVT can be). If the patient actually did have DVT, they will probably know all this information, or at least be somewhat familiar with it, and it is comforting to them that you know what you're talking about. A lot of these things have been explained to them by real doctors in the past, so echoing these statements gives you some credibility.


In the end, it's all about politics and how you play the game. If you're confident, the patient will share your confidence in your abilities. If you're somewhat hesitant, they may view it as "this kid doesn't have any idea what he/she is doing." It's important that if you don't know what some medication or procedure is, when a patient tells you they had it, just smile and nod as if you know exactly what it is. Then, as soon as you're done talking to them, look it up on your PDA or the internet or whatever. If necessary, you can go back and just be like "oh, sorry i meant to ask you one more question"....etc.

 

[RockfordWF]

I prefer "medical student", or just "student". Student doctor feels a little misleading to me. I mean, an intern is technically a student doctor, too. (or are they a doctor student, i don't know). The point is that if I don't know, the patients probably don't know either. I prefer a term that emphasizes the fact that I really don't know jack $hit yet.

I just say my first name. If they want to know what my title is, they can read my nametag.

 

[chagall]

Hmm...I've never used "student doctor before," but it sounds like it may be something to try out. I just felt like it might come across as mildly insulting to patients who are more intelligent...like it would be assuming that they couldn't understand "medical student" (though this comes out to be true more often than not, at least in the patient population here!).

One question I've had recently...on a 4th-yr Sub-I, would/could you call yourself a "the sub-intern with the team"? I'm guessing no, since that might make things even more complicated...but at least it would be more accurate and give them a sense that I'm at least almost a doctor...?

 

[flumazenil]

what about " the lost one" does that count?

 

[cbass1350]

I prefer "His Excellency" but that's just me.

 

[achybrachy]

I prefer "His Excellency" but that's just me.

I like "his eminence" but it sounds too much like "his M&Ms."

Seriously though, give the patients some credit. I think they know what a medical student is. They call it "medical school" after all, not "doctor school."

 

[achybrachy]

One question I've had recently...on a 4th-yr Sub-I, would/could you call yourself a "the sub-intern with the team"? I'm guessing no, since that might make things even more complicated...but at least it would be more accurate and give them a sense that I'm at least almost a doctor...?

At my school they are pushing people to stop calling it a "sub-internship" and instead they are calling it an "acting internship." I guess someone thinks it's degrading to be called "below" the intern. As if one could conceive of being below the intern.

 

[domer621]

Seriously though, give the patients some credit. I think they know what a medical student is. They call it "medical school" after all, not "doctor school."

Not where I am. A lot of them equate "medical student" with "pre-med student". I guess they think we hop right into residency after undergrad.

 

[Blade28]

One question I've had recently...on a 4th-yr Sub-I, would/could you call yourself a "the sub-intern with the team"? I'm guessing no, since that might make things even more complicated...but at least it would be more accurate and give them a sense that I'm at least almost a doctor...?

I wouldn't do that. Why try to misrepresent yourself? Be proud of being a medical student...up until you're a physician.

Besides, you don't want that responsibility yet. Trust me.

 

[Blade28]

Not where I am. A lot of them equate "medical student" with "pre-med student". I guess they think we hop right into residency after undergrad.

Just like how a lot of people think an "intern" is like a summer volunteer, straight out of high school/college.

Sometimes new nurses will mix this up too, since they're a "nursing student" during their undergrad.

 

[mdsh00]

I prefer "medical student" but like a lot of people, introducing yourself to patients as "medical student" usually doesn't go as well as "student doctor."

Either way, a lot patient's will still think you are a doctor and you probably will be called "Doc" at least once a day.

 

[chagall]

I wouldn't do that. Why try to misrepresent yourself? Be proud of being a medical student...up until you're a physician.

Besides, you don't want that responsibility yet. Trust me.

Well, to answer your question, this would mainly be for my psych sub-I, which is the only rotation I've had any trouble on...today a screaming, insulting, personality-disordered patient kicked me out of the room before I even got started because he "didn't want to talk to a student." And psych is so slow anyway these days that, hard as it is to believe, I actually wanted to interview this patient! (Well, maybe not once he got escorted out by police handcuffed to a wheelchair).

 

[Blade28]

I always introduced myself thus:

"Hi, I'm Blade28, the medical student working with the (blank) team."

Now, it's:

"Hi, I'm Dr. Blade28 from surgery."

 

[Hard24Get]

One question I've had recently...on a 4th-yr Sub-I, would/could you call yourself a "the sub-intern with the team"?

I wouldn't do that. Why try to misrepresent yourself? Be proud of being a medical student...up until you're a physician.

Besides, you don't want that responsibility yet. Trust me.

A sub-I or extern is not a mis-representation. At my school, people say, "she's not a medical student, she's a sub-I" to delineate between the seniors and the 3rd years doing a core clerkship.

On my medicine sub-I, I had to explain to a number of my patients how it works, because although I introduced myself as a medical student, at my school we replace an intern - so when the nurse paged "the doctor" I came, I placed orders, etc, and they would be like, WTF, you're my doctor!". So I would explain I was a senior medical student who was only acting as their doctor under supervision before becoming a MD. Some understood, some said "ok, doctor"

 

[RockShox]

I always introduced myself thus:

"Hi, I'm Blade28, the medical student working with the (blank) team."

Now, it's:

"Hi, I'm Dr. Blade28 from surgery."

I do a version of this too.

Somtimes its. Hi I am rockshox with the blahblah service.

Or Hi I am rockshox, the senior medical student on the surgery team.

My last name is a pain in the ass so by the time I get through studentdoctor lickteshliemer (or something similar) my tongue spasms and I can't speak. In otherwords too much work.

As an aside when I page other teams or talk to the lab or rads. i say this is rockshox with the surgery service. It made the interns laugh because I could always get the info from people who would otherwise not have talked with a student (of course you need to be prepared so you don't reveal through idiocy). Though if I am asked my role directly I never lie.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I like "his eminence" but it sounds too much like "his M&Ms."

Seriously though, give the patients some credit. I think they know what a medical student is. They call it "medical school" after all, not "doctor school."

Hmmm...but that wouldn't explain why:

- patients think females who are medical students are studying to be nurses
- why patients think interns and residents are not doctors yet, "so when will you get to be a doctor, sweetie?"

Patients, for most part, do not understand the hierarchy of the medical profession.

 

[achybrachy]

Hmmm...but that wouldn't explain why:

- patients think females who are medical students are studying to be nurses
- why patients think interns and residents are not doctors yet, "so when will you get to be a doctor, sweetie?"

Patients, for most part, do not understand the hierarchy of the medical profession.

I agree patients don't understand the everything about how the hierarchy works, I'm just saying I have never met anyone who doesn't seem to understand that a medical student is somewhere in the process of becoming a doctor. And yes I am male, so no one has mistaken me for a nursing student.