DO vs. MD

[novacek88]

This forum does not represent the real world. If someone read this forum, they would think there is some apartheid between MD's and DO's. I was so scared of MD's prior to rotating because I heard all these stories and rumors about how MD's hate DO's.

The reality is that every MD I have met has gone out of their way to be cordial and respectful of the DO. Maybe there are some program directors at elite hospitals who would never hire a DO. Fine, I'm okay with that. Those same program directors are unlikely to hire an MD from from a non-Ivy or 20 medical school too. I say go easy on the pre-meds and M.D. MS1's and MS2's. They will change their mind once they work with you. Sometimes, people just need to work with DO's in person before they can erase any prejudice they might have.

We have to remeber that we were all pre-meds at some point. And even the DO's who were pre-meds believed the negative hype until they actually worked with MD's. And the MD's who were once biased against DO's often change their minds when they work alongside them and realize there is no real difference.

I think if DO's want M.D.'s to embrace them then they shouldn't get so defensive any time someone questions the D.O. If you don't act like there is an issue with being a D.O., you will realize that other M.D. will realize there isn't one either. I'm not attacking anyone in particular on this thread because everyone has been cool but it's something to think about.

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[TCOM-2006]

Anyone think there will ever be a DO on the AMA board of trustees?

please note - i plan to x-post this on the "Should DOs be involved in the AMA?" thread - and think that any following discussion on this topic would be better suited to fall under this heading.

to answer your question - yes. now- there are many points to be made here (and this related back to the discussion started on another thread "Should DOs be involved in the AMA?" which i have not fully explained my position - but will try to do so soon).

while the AMA's history is certainly that of a purely 'allopathic' organization (and infact, as we all know - has fought against DOs gaining practice rights in the past), today it is a very different organization. while DOs are still 'underrepresented' in the AMA both in terms of membership and leadership, i believe the organization is slowly starting to make the transition to an organization that represents all of medicine - and i strongly believe that is in the interests of both branches of the medical profession to push forward with this vision.

many in the AMA leadership (infact all that i have talked to) are supportive of this vision and welcome DOs to get more involved. i have extensive personal experience with the AMA and, as a DO student, have been treated with nothing but respect from my MD student friends and the AMA physician leadership. these people understand the value in coming together as a unified voice for the medical profession.

however - many of the 'old school' DOs do not share this vision and still view the AMA for what it was - not what it is. this results in missed opportunities that are contrary to our interests. i can give you some concrete examples if you would like me to. it will be our generation that will make the change. many DO students are involved in the AMA medical student section (and i can list examples of leadership here). the relationships that we build as students through our involvement and the experience that we gain by being involved - will bring about future DO leaders of the AMA. this will take some time (years).

let me also say that it's very difficult to get to the AMA board even if you're an MD physician. it requires many years of experience (and networking) at the county, state, and national level. it requires a a great deal of organizational knowledge base as well as leadership skills and tremendous dedication. there are always more candidates than spots available when open seats are elected at the AMA's june meeting. so far - i think i'm safe to assume that a DO has never run for AMA trustee because a DO has never advanced to the point where they would be a worthy candidate. one day that will change, and when it does, i have confidence that the AMA will give a DO a fair shot.

questions? thoughts?

bl

 

[MDvsDO]

Comparing MD schools to DO schools is like comparing major league baseball to minor league baseball. No one I know of aspires to become a DO until the realize that they cannot get into an allopathic medical school in the US. It is much more diffcult to get into a US MD medical school.

Check out the stats for yourself:
http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/premed/osteopathicstats.html

http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/premed/medschoolstats.htm

Please don't tell me it is it the same because it is not. I did not get into an MD school when I applied in my first year. When I applied to osteopathic schools the following year, they called me like crazy trying to recruit me.

 

[DrMom]

This thread is not about DO or MD bashing.

 

[MaryBangHashim]

Comparing MD schools to DO schools is like comparing major league baseball to minor league baseball. No one I know of aspires to become a DO until the realize that they cannot get into an allopathic medical school in the US. It is much more diffcult to get into a US MD medical school.

Check out the stats for yourself:
http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/premed/osteopathicstats.html

http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/premed/medschoolstats.htm

Please don't tell me it is it the same because it is not. I did not get into an MD school when I applied in my first year. When I applied to osteopathic schools the following year, they called me like crazy trying to recruit me.

you are right, getting in to DO school is easy but than you have to kick butt trying to learn all the different techniques that you might not even care about and take the COMPLEX n USMLE's. Competing with all the other DO's and all the other MD's, but that doesnt mean DOs are subpar. I didnt get in to MD school but i went to DO school, so guess what, I am going to be right next to you and practicing right next to you...get over it, and deal with it.

 

[Paul1441]

Comparing MD schools to DO schools is like comparing major league baseball to minor league baseball. No one I know of aspires to become a DO until the realize that they cannot get into an allopathic medical school in the US. It is much more diffcult to get into a US MD medical school.

Check out the stats for yourself:
http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/premed/osteopathicstats.html

http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/premed/medschoolstats.htm

Please don't tell me it is it the same because it is not. I did not get into an MD school when I applied in my first year. When I applied to osteopathic schools the following year, they called me like crazy trying to recruit me.

That could also be due to the kinds of MD schools you applied to. Maybe you applied to all the really "famous" MD schools with the other 20,000 pre-meds, and that is why the odds were against you in getting accepted

 

[kpax18]

Comparing MD schools to DO schools is like comparing major league baseball to minor league baseball. No one I know of aspires to become a DO until the realize that they cannot get into an allopathic medical school in the US. It is much more diffcult to get into a US MD medical school.

Check out the stats for yourself:
http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/premed/osteopathicstats.html

http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/premed/medschoolstats.htm

Please don't tell me it is it the same because it is not. I did not get into an MD school when I applied in my first year. When I applied to osteopathic schools the following year, they called me like crazy trying to recruit me.

 

[VentdependenT]

 

[delchrys]

and just a quick FYI to the earlier poster who claimed that only people who failed to get into an allopathic school would go to a DO school, get over yourself and welcome to reality--i know that i will apply to primarily DO schools when the time comes, and this is based on the work i've done to look into the distinctions between the two (which goes far beyond the simple question i asked as OP in this thread).

and by my choice, i mean zero disrespect to MDs--both are legit and cool in my eyes; i think OMM is a great diagnostic and palliative tool that MDs lack, though, and i don't want to be without it.

 

[realdocMD]

TO MDvsDO:

Great info!!! There is such a difference isn't there? It's like comparing a Mercedes to a Geo Metro. Sure, both a Mercedes and a Metro are cars but who can't tell the difference? MDvsDO, why is it that DOs always have name tags like "DR. John Smith" while MDs have tags like "Jane Doe MD"?

TO Paul1441:

Did you not look at the statistics? The allopathic schools (excluding foreign schools) accept students with an MCAT score of ~30. Osteopathic schools accept students with an average of ~24.75. That is a significant difference. I don't think MDvsDO was comparing Havard to the best osteopathic school but he was comparing the average MD school to the best DO schools.

TO Delchys:

"i know that i will apply to primarily DO schools ". What other schools are you planning to apply to? Are you applying to foreign schools or other in state MD schools? Are you applying mostly DO schools because you know that you don't qualify to apply to MD schools? That's what it sounds like.

TO EVERYONE:

I think that lower scores mean students who aren't as qualified. I do agree that doctors have to know how to relate to a patient. However, if you ever get into an accident and end up unconscious in the ER, do you want a slick talker treating you or do you want someone intelligent? Do you want a highly qualified doctor from the US treating you or do you want someone who had to go to Puerto Rico to get their MD degree treating you? I feel that you would want the more qualified US doctor treating you. I would want the same. That is the reason why I would want an MD treating me vs a DO. Both are doctors but it is more difficult to get into an MD school.

 

[group_theory]

I would respond, but I'm just a dumb DO student who is still learning how to read (me get private tutor from them smart md student)

-group_theory

The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so. ~Josh Billings

To be ignorant of one's ignorance is the malady of ignorance. ~A. Bronson Alcott

 

[realdocMD]

Group_Theory,

You're not dumb. You're just no smarter than the average person.

 

[cooldreams]

Both are doctors but it is more difficult to get into an MD school.

more difficult? kinda interesting that statistically less ppl who apply to DO schools get into DO schools than do those who apply to MD schools.

dramatization:
MDguy: "hey gurl, im going to big name MD school!"
gurl: "wow a rich doctor, wanna get married??"

DOguy: "hey gurl im going to DO school!"
gurl: "wow, uh, what is DO school?"
DOguy: "its a medical school"
gurl: "wow a rich doctor, wanna get married??"

think about it, the only thing that sticks out as a general plus for MD schools versus DO schools is the public awareness/coolness factor. all else is the same really, except to be perfectly honest, DOs do learn an extra technique that they can physically bill for. sure MDs could bill for it, but who would want to go to an MD who has had little to no formal training... like going to a butcher for open heart surgery (strangely enough, there are some surgeons who are nicknamed butchers but that is beside the point)... there are actually some schools that are begining to teach omm, like i believe harvard just picked up a DO doc for this.

MDfpdoc: "wow i pulled in $150k this year!!"

DOfpdoc: "wow i pulled in $150k plus another $50k from omm this year!!"

now you may not want to be a fp doc, but statistically wether you are an MD, DO, or img MD, you will most likely become a primary care doc of some sort.

take away the above two instances, and you have equality... yikes... who wants that in america... someone always has to be better, whether they deserve it or not.....

 

[cooldreams]

Group_Theory,

You're not dumb. You're just no smarter than the average person.

harsh dood...



GT has always been nice and helpful to those who asked.

to become a doc, you are obviously smarter than the average person, or at least more determined, 4 extra years of pure school plus residency is no cakewalk.... quit cutting each other down....

 

[delchrys]

TO MDvsDO:

Great info!!! There is such a difference isn't there? It's like comparing a Mercedes to a Geo Metro. Sure, both a Mercedes and a Metro are cars but who can't tell the difference? MDvsDO, why is it that DOs always have name tags like "DR. John Smith" while MDs have tags like "Jane Doe MD"?

TO Paul1441:

Did you not look at the statistics? The allopathic schools (excluding foreign schools) accept students with an MCAT score of ~30. Osteopathic schools accept students with an average of ~24.75. That is a significant difference. I don't think MDvsDO was comparing Havard to the best osteopathic school but he was comparing the average MD school to the best DO schools.

TO Delchys:

"i know that i will apply to primarily DO schools ". What other schools are you planning to apply to? Are you applying to foreign schools or other in state MD schools? Are you applying mostly DO schools because you know that you don't qualify to apply to MD schools? That's what it sounds like.

TO EVERYONE:

I think that lower scores mean students who aren't as qualified. I do agree that doctors have to know how to relate to a patient. However, if you ever get into an accident and end up unconscious in the ER, do you want a slick talker treating you or do you want someone intelligent? Do you want a highly qualified doctor from the US treating you or do you want someone who had to go to Puerto Rico to get their MD degree treating you? I feel that you would want the more qualified US doctor treating you. I would want the same. That is the reason why I would want an MD treating me vs a DO. Both are doctors but it is more difficult to get into an MD school.

i will be applying to DO schools because i want to learn OMM, and the osteopathic philosophy. i'm sorry you have such disrespect for DOs, and i wonder if you are anything more than a pre-med or a med student...with as large an ego as you have, you would think you've got more than an acceptance letter and a small penis to back it up.

MDs are fine people, that is what my partner is. if you want to talk about MCAT scores, then you aren't interested in talking skill or aptitude at what it takes to be a physician, you're talking standardized tests. if you want to talk about my scores in particular, i can only talk about practice MCATs, but my average there is a 34, not that it matters at all. MD schools have a higher average MCAT among the students they accept because most potential students have the perception that MD schools are more prestigious, and thus better tools to reach the end goal of a quality residency program and a good job afterwards.

why don't you try telling your attendings and chiefs, when you get to the point where you are doing your clinicals, what you think of DOs. you'll get far with your attitude. the best part will be when you have a DO sitting in the courtroom, testifying that you breached the standard of care for your chosen specialty, and the judgment comes down for the plaintiff to the tune of a million dollars. play your little "i am god, DOs suck" song to the jury, and see how sympathetic they are to your arrogance.

 

[DrMom]

No bashing on either side, guys. And no trolling. I'm closing the thread since this hasn't improved.