Dentists make more $$$ than Pharmacists??

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super marz

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yes or no? i heard the demand for Pharmacists is getting higher and will rise more than dentists in the future. my goal is to become a dentist but i am just curious of the answer. :D

btw, what's the exact differnece between BA and BS?

happy sunny day ya'll~~~ :oops:

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No way. I have two friends in pharm school and I asked them this over the phone. The reason a dentist will make more is bec the services are different and a dentist can charge more for these services. A pharmacist is essentially very limted as to what they can do
 
In a nutshell, dentists will *always* make more than pharmacists due to the reason Broc points out. Right now the demand is high for pharmacists, but it will even out once the shortage is met, i.e. new schools pumping out more graduates. Salaries are high now, but will not necessarily be high in the future.

BA=Bachelor of Arts
BS=Bachelor of Science

BTW, I am a pharmacist. :D
 
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i was actually considering pharmacy for a while, but the thing is with pharmacy to own ur own business is practically impossible, which means ur life ends up being controlled by a big chain like walgreens or cvs..i just wouldn't be able to stand that, not to mention standing behind a counter all day telling people "NO! i don't know what aisle the peanut butter is in!" or hearing them bitch about why their insurance isn't paying more..so not only will u earn more as a dentist but u have much more freedom..anyone agree?
 
agreed, but you are telling me you'd have a problem working from 9-5, behind a counter, with no stress, and making anywhere from 70k-110k a year? corporate or not...i'd take that. my friend just graduated from UW-madison with pharmD and got a job in appleton, wi. she's going to be making 90k a year. i don't think this is the normal starting salary, but damn, 90k a year at 24 isn't too bad.

it all boils down to that you have to do what you are good at and makes you happy.
 
UMDeeMan said:
agreed, but you are telling me you'd have a problem working from 9-5, behind a counter, with no stress


= boring? Like you said, it makes some people happy, but I think people typically want more out of life than that. And sometimes that means stress and/or difficult situations.
 
no stress = longer life, to be completely honest, i just want a job that's 9-5, pays well, and allows me to do the things i truly want to do (travel, play golf, have a family, gamble, etc). of course dentistry would allow all of this. but i'm just saying i bet you have to deal with more stresses running your own practice, dealing with pt's everyday, worrying about carrying out a difficult oral procedure (sounds dirty doesn't it?) then you would sitting behind a counter, ordering some tech's around, and wondering if you can cut out to make your 4 pm tee time. the more demanding of the job is reflected in the pay scale, dentists have more to deal with and they are compensated for that. pharamacists have less responsibilities (relative to a dentist who own's their own practice) and they are paid accordingly less.

i think :)
 
Just from what I read on the Pharm forum, pharmacists can make extreme bank if they own their pharmacy. Something like 350K/year. I would guess this would be difficult to start up.
 
uhhh 9-5? Sorry, but many pharmacists work 12 hour days. My gf is a pharmacist (she's not big on retail), and my best friend is also a pharmacist. The hours they tell me they're expected to work for retail suck. It's big bank if you want to deal with it, but I like the freedom dentistry offers.

Also, on a whole, we make more, but they pay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less in school. 6 year program including undergrad at Rutgers University ($15,000/year x 4) + ($20,000/year x 2 years). Even the 4 year graduate programs are muuuuuch cheaper than dental school. We pay roughly the cost of a decent house for our 4 years in dental school ON TOP of undergrad.

On the other hand, don't forget the crap they have to put up with when patients come in to get prescriptions. Insurance messes up, it's the pharmacist's fault. MD messes up, it's the pharmacist's fault. Patient doesn't know the insurance plans, it's the pharmacist's fault. This is not to mention how many patients think the FDA, DEA, and corporate guidelines mean nothing, and the pharmacist is to blame when they can't bend the rules.

But we still make more. :thumbup:
 
i get what you are saying Dr.P. i concede that dentists make more money and i'm fine with that. 12 hour shifts though?? my friend has to work 44-48 hours a week she told me. i guess it's just isolated cases we are exposed to.

but come on, what requires greater skill : filling a prescription and playing customer service rep, or removing a tooth or doing a basic root canal?

i just want to add one more thing here in regard to the self-employed pharmacist. there is a guy in the area i am from (100,000 population) who opened up his own pharmacy about 5 years ago. he know has 4 locations and has a delivery service. he banks hard. you can beat out the walgreens, target, wal-mart pharmacy's if you are smart.
 
Agreed, private pharmacies do well, when they're established with the right business plan, but this is likened to the GP who grosses $1.x million. It just doesn't happen that often (or as often as we'd hope, for our own sake :) )

About the 12 hour shift thing, I believe that is up to the pharmacy itself. The pharmacists can trade ours, pick up slots, and rearrange the schedule so that everyone gets days off, or even works heavy weeks here but gets other weeks off throughout the year. I just know that my buddy works 4 days a week, 12 hours a day, but he gets the other 3 days off (as well as other pharmacists that we know). CRAZY. My gf refuses to do retail full time, and she's actually doing a fellowship with Bristol Meyer's Squibb.

Gotta admit, for the amount of school and effort, pharmacists make A LOT, and that's an understatement.
 
A guy in our class is a pharmacist, he worked for a while and claimed that he had to put up with a lot of crap from supervisors, managers, etc and decided to make the right decision and go dental. :D
On a different note, pharmacists start out pretty well, they expect around 80 K, at least thats what my pharm school roomate says, but they dont go higher. They have no autonomy and work pretty hard, ever see the CVS? Its like nonstop over there. I would say there is plenty of stress over there.

In dentistry, the sky is the limit. We start out pretty much the same as pharmacists, but then we have the potential to work as much or as little as possible.

UNC 2007
 
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I heard that management at Burger King is making MUCH more than dentists? Is that true? :confused: Shoot, if that's the case, I'm dropping out, heck, if I can get a free #1 with a coke and make more than dentists....I'm all over that? Can anyone clear this up?

:(
 
come on now E, fellow minnesota edumacated. everyone know's Popeye's chicken is the fastest growing fast food chain in america.
 
The last thing I want is to end up working at a store. That settles it for me. I have talked to pharmacist and they make it out as if 95%+ of them end up in retail chains :thumbdown:

Do you really want to deal with the crap people give you? (If you worked in retail you know what I mean.)

In the long run dentists are better off.

Also I feel that Pharmacists are exposed to the boom and bust cycle of the economy whereas dentists tend to be insulated from that.
 
blankguy said:
The last thing I want is to end up working at a store. That settles it for me. I have talked to pharmacist and they make it out as if 95%+ of them end up in retail chains :thumbdown:

Do you really want to deal with the crap people give you? (If you worked in retail you know what I mean.)

In the long run dentists are better off.

Also I feel that Pharmacists are exposed to the boom and bust cycle of the economy whereas dentists tend to be insulated from that.

I would have to disagree with you blankguy, dentistry is a service industry and you are going to have to put up with a lot of crap from the public. Just part of the job.

And pharmacists are the ones with immunity to economic cycles; people always buy drugs. Dentistry on the other hand is mostly elective; when times are lean people tend to hold off on getting anything other than the most basic care.
 
Dr.SpongeBobDDS said:
I would have to disagree with you blankguy, dentistry is a service industry and you are going to have to put up with a lot of crap from the public. Just part of the job.

And pharmacists are the ones with immunity to economic cycles; people always buy drugs. Dentistry on the other hand is mostly elective; when times are lean people tend to hold off on getting anything other than the most basic care.

True, but I feel it's going to be less crap than say working at a retail store. A sales associate doesn't have the sort of specialized knowledge that a dentist would have so the customer can dispute him/her (even with the nonsense that they can bring up).

Even if people had the most basic care you would still need a dentist. You'll still have a job to do but you wouldn't be raking in the $$$$$ which is preferable to getting a pink slip. The same argument can be made that there will always be people who regardless of the downturn will have to see the dentist.
 
Yah-E said:
I heard that management at Burger King is making MUCH more than dentists? Is that true? :confused: Shoot, if that's the case, I'm dropping out, heck, if I can get a free #1 with a coke and make more than dentists....I'm all over that? Can anyone clear this up?

:(

Yah-E, I heard football players are babe magnets :laugh:
 
i just want to say y ou cant really consider a pharmacist a true Wal-mart, target, etc worker. i wouldn't call a corporate pharmacist a "sales associate" or doesn't have some sort of specialized knowledge.

and Dr.Sponge is right, drugs for cholesterol or diabetes is a must. a routine check-up isn't. you know what i mean?
 
UMDeeMan said:
i just want to say y ou cant really consider a pharmacist a true Wal-mart, target, etc worker. i wouldn't call a corporate pharmacist a "sales associate" or doesn't have some sort of specialized knowledge.

and Dr.Sponge is right, drugs for cholesterol or diabetes is a must. a routine check-up isn't. you know what i mean?

But because they work in such a retail environment they have to deal with the same people that other staff deal with. :thumbdown:
 
This might be a little off subject.

But, I've always wondered why machines haven't taken over pharmacy. This might offend some people out there, but in my opinion robots and machines would be a real threat to a "modern pharmacist" I already know that some hospitals have drug dispensing machines, and with computers as sophisticated as they are, it wouldn't be hard to have a machine that could have a patients medical history, drugs taking, etc.....calculate risk of drug interactions. Give advice. Etc. Patient comes in with a prescription. the prescription has a special bar code linking dosage amounts to a computer or physician signature......

Now, I don't think it *should* come to this, but its just a matter of time before big pharmacy chains and drug companies start lobbying for things like this to cut down on costs of hiring pharmacists.

Anyway, theres my conspiracy theory for the day :laugh:
 
Wow. Just as I had that thought, I decided to search the PharmD forums to see if anyone else had my concerns about the pharmacy profession. And to much surprise, it seems to be a concern for them as well!!

Here is one of the threads I found. There are many more debating issues similar to the scenerio I stated above. Do a search. there is sucha wealth of information on SDN!!

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=84427&highlight=machines
 
In my area, starting salaries for new grads are in the 100,000's.

Stability-wise, I think both professions are pretty equal when you factor in everything (supply and demand, necessity vs want, third-party payments, ect). But I'm no statician so I don't really know.

But, I have to agree that being a pharmacist is a whole lot less stressful than going into dentistry. You can pick from three shifts(night, day, evening), some stores are not busy at all and you still get the same base pay, there's not all this obsession with sterility and all the other little details that dentists have to deal with, they do not diagnose or treat, they usually do not have huge amounts of student loans to pay back, and you do not have the responsibility/stress of being manager of the whole operation and keeping track of finances. You take your pay check and go home and forget about it all.
 
Why is this thread soooo concerned about HOW MUCH MONEY IS TO BE MADE... Going home to play golf after work, travel , spa treatments etc. Did you realize that you really don't need a whole lot of money to have a stress free lifestyle, and enjoy the all the niceties that have been mentioned...If a comfortable lifestyle is what you want, you don't really need to even become a pharmacist or dentist... Esp. if you are willing to move to an area with a lower cost of living...such as Texas!!
I've met a lot of non degreed people working in corporations as designers or technicians saving up in their twenties and living in 4-5 bedroom 2 story homes, 4000 sq ft!! yes they do it, they are comfortable, but what is it that you think sets you apart from that...
My point is that yes everyone wants to have some fun and nice things in life...but you don't have to go into pharmacy, dental, medical, or whatever health career to achieve those things...PEOPLE wake up...If you are asking these kind of questions about money. Then money is what is motivating you. I am speaking from an Older applicant's perspective. I have a lot of money now working and still saving a lot of money. My husband and I paid cash for our house and cars...We have money saved up for dental school as well..BUT despite making lots of money, traveling the world for vacations, having parties to entertain friends, etc. WE STILL WANT TO GIVE UP OUR EXISTING CAREERS TO PURSUE DENTISTRY. Yes we won't see another paycheck for about 6 years plus (incl 2 years for predental and 4 for dental ) and we lose out on furthering our investments. BUT We know we really want to do it despite the LOSS in money, to have to go back to school...

Because in the end my friends, it's not about the money...You can have a lot of the same things that "rich" people do, believe it or not. I am queen of finding bargains where other people have paid tons more for... just start checking out priceline, or overstock.com, mysimon.com, etc..
What I'm saying is reevaluate why you want to do it if all careers had paid the same...And then decide would you still do it???
 
I liked to add my .02. I have research endlessly and have talked and know pharmacists from florida, georgia, california, and new york from family and friends, and the 100k number is seen only in areas where IT IS MORE EXPENSIVE TO LIVE THERE. Of course in California they get paid 100k, but the living expenses are a lot more. I am not saying you can't get paid 100k in the south or up north or whatever, it is just that MOST pharmacists get the 75-90k range. I know it is not all about money cause 60k or 150k can get you some of those things we all want, but the fact is that is is only natural to want even more money, cause you guess what, more money means easier lifestyle(in terms of finances) and more things extra. Doing what you would love to do for your job is #1 and should come before thining of becoming some sort of doctor. If you love to be a RN and make 45k or be a cardio thoracic surgeon and make 500k,it should be what gives you that drive everyday to go to work and be happy about your choice and not having a bad attitude about everything in life. Yes, pharmacists do get paid a lot for what they do, but that's life I guess. I have worked w/ two pharmacists who are both 28 and graduated at 23 and got hired a Eckerds making 88k. I know personally that Eckerds is hell to work for since I have been a tech there for 2 yrs. and most of the pharmacists I have worked with don't do a lot as some may think in terms of using their drug knowledge. I do respect the one's that actually care about the customers and don't talk on their 3 cell phones all day long(yes, seriously) and don't look at magazines while me, the tech. is dealing with angry customers and ins. problems and typing in scripts, ringing them up, and counting the pills. For me, as you can probally tell from my rambling, despise the retail chains in pharmacy practice and I would not be happy making that 90k after working my ass off studying everyday and worrying if I am going to make it into pharm school and etc. Pharmacy and dentistry are two different fields as everyone knows and one thing that should be noted is that IN PHARMACY, ONCE YOU ARE MAKING THAT 88K, YOU WONT GET THAT MUCH MORE MONEY COMING IN. SETTLe ON AROUND 90 SOMETHING FOR YOUR PAY FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. ON THE OTHER HAND, IN DENTISTRY MONEY CAN BE NO OBJECT CAUSE THE MORE PATIENTS YOU GET ALONG W/HOW MANY DAYS A WEEK YOU WORK CAN DETERMINE YOUR PAY. ONCE YOUR 45 YRS OLD AND WORKING FOR SAY 20 YRS. YOU ARE MAKING A COUPLE OF HUNDRED THOUSAND A YR! Sorry for long post, but it was needed.
 
Interesting...that the truths come out on these types of message boards. Let's hear these "I love money" perspectives shared with adcoms during your interviews and see what kind of response you will get. :confused:

It's really only for your own good when you decide to do something not for the money, but because you really enjoy doing it...There is more to life than money... :idea: but it's hard to believe that I guess when you don't feel like you have enough...Well I am content with my finances and perhaps that's why I have the opinions I do. :luck:
 
Tabstar said:
Interesting...that the truths come out on these types of message boards. Let's hear these "I love money" perspectives shared with adcoms during your interviews and see what kind of response you will get. :confused:

The response I got wasn't bad at all. In fact, I got multiple acceptances.
 
i love money, who the hell doesn't want money? honestly. is money a reason why i am pursuing a health-related career? partially. job stability and the salary assurance is also very nice. i would love to be a professional football player but the fact is i dont have the skill, it's not so much about the "love" of your job. it's more of a combination of "semi-love/able to maintain your sanity" and the ability (knowledge/physical) to do so. people go onto a health professional field because they know it's a job that will always be there and there's no question marks in regard to the salary you will get once you are done with the education. anyone that says they are in the field only because they "love helping others" and have "known they were going to be a (insert profession)" since day 1 is lying. you honestly think a 7 year old understands what a doctor or a dentist does? i'm sure all you early dreamers knew about HMO's and how to deal with insurance. when i was 7 i wanted to shoot guns and be in the army. plain and simple. boy how my views have changed. anyways, i'm sure i will get bashed for being honest and saying that money did influence my decision PARTIALLY to go into the health profession field, but oh well. i'm just sick of all these cookie-cutter/miss america answers.
 
ItsGavinC said:
The response I got wasn't bad at all. In fact, I got multiple acceptances.

Roast! Pharmacy...no thanks, that is all I will say. Let's pick on the med students for a while, that could be fun!
 
Tabstar, there is nothing wrong with going into a career with your major motivation being money, if for example you never had it growing up and want to be a good provider for your family. Yes you might be more unhappy doing dentistry than lets say, being a park ranger or something, but so is life. If we use that parallel, we should never settle for anything that does not make us truly happy (half of us would have never been married). That just doesnt fly in my reality. Lets see if you would choose D for $40k a year. Sure, your response might be that you have plenty and would do it for that much but deep down you probably wouldn't. Don't take this as an offense to you, but I think you are not seeing reality for what it is for many of us young people. Yes, we don't need a lot to be comfortable, but it is human nature to want more. You said it yourself with your investments and the problems you will face during DS in regards to growing your portfolio. What is moralistically wrong with wanting money? Believe, me I really find Dentistry interesting but I would be lying if I said that money was not a major deciding factor in my choice to persue it.

Anyways, this talk about people saying do something you love is a cliche, because many times doing something you love does not get you where you want to be. Compromises must be made in any career choice (less money, less headaches, less school; more money, more stress more sacrifices) and for the people going into D for the security, guess what, I respect you. For the people going into D for the love of teeth, I respect you too. To any one on the fence in regards to a career choice, evaluate what you want out of a career, what sacrifices you need to make and what compromises that need to occur. If after that you feel that one profession is better for whatever the aggregate reasons, follow it.
 
I think the problem is that many young students don't really KNOW what they want to do. They KNOW that money is real nice because it buys them toys...But they don't know what else to do except focus on money. They haven't realized the other factors.
If you try different things in life, you can figure out what you want and DONT want to do...I think that takes some guts!

Not sharing how you love money with other people who love money ( in response to ItsGavinC)
 
"Have you ever had a wellfare christmas"

Off course money is an important thing, don't kid yourself buddy.
 
Dentistry and Pharmacy are completely different!
Go into one or the other because it is what you would enjoy, and both seem to be enjoyable, it is just your personality. As a pharmacist you are someone's employee, a dentist is not usually.
Don't worry about the freakin money, neither starve!
 
Tabstar said:
My husband and I paid cash for our house and cars...We have money saved up for dental school as well..BUT despite making lots of money, traveling the world for vacations, having parties to entertain friends, etc. WE STILL WANT TO GIVE UP OUR EXISTING CAREERS TO PURSUE DENTISTRY. Yes we won't see another paycheck for about 6 years plus (incl 2 years for predental and 4 for dental ) and we lose out on furthering our investments. BUT We know we really want to do it despite the LOSS in money, to have to go back to school...

Im REALLY curious as to what you and your husband did that let you travel around the world, pay your house with cash, makes more than dentistry, ect. If u dont want to tell everyone, would u mind lettting me in on the secret and pm'ing? Or, if this nosiness is getting on your nerves, u can pm me and tell me to bug off(or publically). Either way, like i said, im really curious and it dont hurt to ask.

I dont know. I think that most people dont have time to shop around and explore so that they know what they REALLY want to do, Or, if theyre like me, like the OfficeSpace guy, "I just want to sit on my a** and do nothing".

I'm not becoming a dentist but as my dentist friends have told me, u dont go into dentistry to help people, you go into it to make cash. So i guess most people do go in to pay cash solely. Thats okay, i think. The only thing I'm personally worried about for my friends' sake is that U MUST have a firm understanding that youll have to deal with all the little details of owing a business everyday and taking care of clients and paying your emplyees and all the other little details. Its not a rumor that dentists have the highest suicide rate. They dont exactly get the amount of respect that makes a job rewarding to other doctors do so i think the important thing is to evaluate, if youre going into this profession just for $$$, is IF your personality/psychology, can be satisfied and cope in this type of profession. U dont want to go crazy and beleive it that it is easy to.
 
susannaQ said:
I'm not becoming a dentist but as my dentist friends have told me, u dont go into dentistry to help people...
ummm.... yes you do. :) Maybe your friend forgot that somewhere along the way.
The only thing I'm personally worried about for my friends' sake is that U MUST have a firm understanding that youll have to deal with all the little details of owing a business everyday and taking care of clients and paying your emplyees and all the other little details.
True.
Its not a rumor that dentists have the highest suicide rate.
Yes, it is a rumor.
They dont exactly get the amount of respect that makes a job rewarding to other doctors do so i think the important thing is to evaluate, if youre going into this profession just for $$$, is IF your personality/psychology, can be satisfied and cope in this type of profession. U dont want to go crazy and beleive it that it is easy...
Very true.
 
Haven't we beat this topic to death already? Who cares why you want to go in dentistry? We all have our own reasons, some valid maybe some aren't.

Ultimately, you are the one that will have to live with your decision. Newsflash here everyone: People go into careers for many different reasons, sometimes the right ones, sometimes the wrong one.

This is America, you do what you want and how you want.

Let's put this thread to bed! :D
 
in regard to the suicide rate, that is a researched fact. i'll post the link to the report later this week
 
one of my dental school classmates is a pharmacist. and mentioned previously, you cannot accurately compare the 2 careers.

pharmacists work for someone else, usually a large company. in my area, they start around 90,000. but they do not move up much in their earning potential. in other words, at age 60, when the pharmacist retires, they cannot expect to be making much more money.

dentists can control their own destiny. they make more money, on avg, than their counterparts in pharmacy.

i do not know any pharmacists making $500,000 a year, nor have i heard of one. but i've met a ton of dentists that do.

dental associates upon graduation are now expecting competitive first year salaries around 100,000. and income increases with experience. the sky is the limit.
 
Dr.SpongeBobDDS said:
ummm.... yes you do. :) Maybe your friend forgot that somewhere along the way. True. Yes, it is a rumor. Very true.
HEY! Since when can we refute arguments here by a simple yes or no?????

Anyway, since you didnt offer any counterproof, I dont know where youre pulling your proof from but my friend, who has long-working dentists in the family and who has worked in a dentists'(orthosomething?) office, knows that people dont go into dentistry mainly to help people but to have a steady job with a very high steady income. I don't question her knowledge. Shes been around that block her whole life.
 
susannaQ said:
HEY! Since when can we refute arguments here by a simple yes or no?????
Since now.

Anyway, since you didnt offer any counterproof, I dont know where youre pulling your proof from but my friend, who has long-working dentists in the family and who has worked in a dentists'(orthosomething?) office, knows that people dont go into dentistry mainly to help people but to have a steady job with a very high steady income. I don't question her knowledge. Shes been around that block her whole life.

You're questioning my sources??? Yet to support your argument you cite a single person you know who happens to be related to a dentist and who once worked in a dental office? Third person anecdotes are hardly definitive proof of anything. I, on the other hand, happen to associate daily with over a hundred practicing, retired and student dentists. It seems like I might have a pretty good handle on what motivates a person to become a dentist. And, guess what, most of us are there to help people.

I'm not so naive as to think that money doesn't enter into the equation; it does for all of us. But I believe that only a very few people enter the profession with money as their sole purpose. Dentistry's just too dang hard if all you're after is money.

Just my opinion. :D
 
susannaQ said:
Anyway, since you didnt offer any counterproof, I dont know where youre pulling your proof from but my friend, who has long-working dentists in the family and who has worked in a dentists'(orthosomething?) office, knows that people dont go into dentistry mainly to help people but to have a steady job with a very high steady income. I don't question her knowledge. Shes been around that block her whole life.

Are you serious? The first problem with your statement is that you are trying to prove something that CANNOT be proven (either in the negative or the positive).

I don't care how much ancedotal evidence you have (which is all you've provided)--this is something that CANNOT be proven.

You say you don't "question her knowledge," yet she doesn't have any knowledge. All she has are feelings and opinions about family members and friends. Heck, these aren't even YOUR family members and friends. This is ancedotal evidence twice removed.

Some dentists go into the career for money. Some go into it to help people. Most would fall somewhere between those two items. And contrary to popular belief, the two items are NOT mutually exclusive!
 
UMDeeMan said:
in regard to the suicide rate, that is a researched fact. i'll post the link to the report later this week

It is not a researched fact and IS a complete rumor.

Furthermore, anybody who allows suicide rates (true or false) to compel them towards or away from a profession is probably a bit uncommited to begin with.
 
ItsGavinC said:
Some dentists go into the career for money. Some go into it to help people. Most would fall somewhere between those two items. And contrary to popular belief, the two items are NOT mutually exclusive!

Well said, Gavin. :thumbup:
 
ItsGavinC said:
It is not a researched fact and IS a complete rumor.

Gavin, I believe that this is a rumor. Personally, if it were true it would not stop me from pursuing a career in dentistry. I was wondering if you have the research that supports your statement that it is a rumor. I would love to read it. Thanks.
 
Tabstar said:
Interesting...that the truths come out on these types of message boards. Let's hear these "I love money" perspectives shared with adcoms during your interviews and see what kind of response you will get. :confused:

It's really only for your own good when you decide to do something not for the money, but because you really enjoy doing it...There is more to life than money... :idea: but it's hard to believe that I guess when you don't feel like you have enough...Well I am content with my finances and perhaps that's why I have the opinions I do. :luck:

Money is not the only reason I am choosing to pursue dentistry, but it is a major reason. I grew with a very irresponsible father. I remember many times picking up the phone in high school, and having to talk to collection agencies because of his financial mismanagement. When my dad lost his job, I (while still a teenager) was the one who filled out his unemployment paperwork because he didn't know how to. That is how irresponsible he is. I hated growing up like that, and I don't ever want my children to have to go through the experiences I do. I do not intend to make it easy for them, but I want them to know that they don't have to worry about things like paying for college (as I did). It is not a matter of loving money, it is about recognizing the benefits of stability. One of the only things in the world that can bring stability is money. If an adcom asks for the reason why I want to go into dentistry, I will be honest and say the truth. I am pretty sure they will see the difference greed and the desire for financial stability.
 
about the suicide rates, first i think that it is a rumor that they are the HIGHEST, but i would not be surprised if they were relatively high for the same reason substance abuse is high among anesthesioligists. I think there is reason that depressed people choose high paying/low stress work, and then commit suicide. Not that they are happy people, get this great job, then it drives them to suicide. I think the pattern here is that they are depressed, and just want the most money and least work responsibilty ratio, not caring at all about what they are doing, and so they seek professions like dentistry, which still wont let them overcome their depression, and kill themselves thinking, god if this cant make me happy nothing can.
 
Does anyone have any actual data to eiter support their or refute the "dental suicide rate" claim.
 
about the dental suicide rates.....apparently it has been researched more and more and the basic findings were that inflated dental suicide rates are a myth. but they were allegedly researched to be true before. here's the web page.

http://www.suicidereferencelibrary.com/test4~id~1368.php

A a JADA article found that "Dentists are no more prone to suicide than other white-collar professionals." But before that article this was found in another study, "a long-held perception that suicide is a risk of the profession, according to the study's author, Dr. Roger E. Alexander of Baylor College of Dentistry in Dallas."

i'm just going to keep my mouth shut from now on because the only thing that comes out if it apparently is crap.
 
There is NO evidence to say dentists have a higher suicide rate than anybody in the general population.

That is indeed an urban legend of sorts. Here is the breakdown:

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This is one of those dodgy things that "everybody knows." And not just the uninformed public, either--dentists themselves believe it. Since the 1960s dental journals have been carrying articles with headlines like "The Suicidal Professions." Dozens of studies have looked at suicide not only among dentists but among health-care workers in general. With few exceptions, research over the past 40 years has found that dentists (and doctors) take their own lives at a higher-than-average rate. But how much higher? To hear some tell it, you'd better not leave these guys in a room alone.

Dentists' odds of suicide "are 6.64 times greater than the rest of the working age population," writes researcher Steven Stack. "Dentists suffer from relatively low status within the medical profession and have strained relationships with their clients--few people enjoy going to the dentist." One study of Oregon dentists found that they had the highest suicide rate of any group investigated. A California study found that dentists were surpassed only by chemists and pharmacists. Of 22 occupations examined in Washington state, dentists had a suicide rate second only to that of sheepherders and wool workers.

But the sheer diversity of results has to make you suspicious. I mean, which is it--dentists, chemists and pharmacists, or sheepherders and wool workers? (What, the bleating gets to them?) And what about psychiatrists? One school of popular belief holds that they have the highest suicide rate.

Read the studies and you begin to see the problem. Suicide research is inherently a little flaky, in part because suicides are often concealed. Equally important from a statistical standpoint is the problem of small numbers: dentists represent only a small fraction of the total population, only a small fraction of them die in a given year, and only a small fraction of those that die are suicides. So you've got people drawing grand conclusions based on tiny samples. For example, I see where the Swedes think their male dentists have an elevated suicide rate. Number of male-dentist suicides on which this finding is based: 18.

But you aren't reading this column to hear me whine about the crummy data. You want the facts. Coming right up. All we need to do, for any occupation of interest, is (a) find a large, reasonably accurate source of mortality statistics, (b) compute suicides as a percentage of total deaths for said group, and (c) compare that percentage with some benchmark, like so:

PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5
U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)
U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0
U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)

(Sources: Vital Statistics of the United States--1970, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-26, "Deaths from 281 Selected Causes, by Age, Race, and Sex: United States, 1970"; death certificates from 31 states, reported in "Mortality of Dentists, 1968 to 1972," Bureau of Economic Research and Statistics, Journal of the American Dental Association, January 1975, pp. 195ff; death reports collected by the American Medical Association, reported in "Suicide by Psychiatrists: A Study of Medical Specialists Among 18,730 Physician Deaths During a Five-Year Period, 1967-72," Rich et al., Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, August 1980, pp. 261ff.; Vital Statistics of the United States--1990, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-27, "Deaths from 282 Selected Causes, by 5-Year Age Groups, Race, and Sex: United States--1990"; National Occupational Mortality Surveillance database, reported in "Mortality Rates and Causes Among U.S. Physicians," Frank et al., American Journal of Preventive Medicine, Vol. 19, No. 3, 2000.

I know what you're thinking. Percentages! They're so primitive! What about the Poisson distribution, the chi-square test, the multivariate regression analysis? Not to mention the fact that I don't express suicides relative to 100,000 living population; that I haven't corrected for age distribution, socioeconomic status, etc; and that I couldn't find any current data for dentist mortality in the readily available literature. Sue me. We've got enough here to draw some basic conclusions.

Suicide among white male American dentists is higher than average but not as high as among white male American doctors. (Sorry to limit this to white men, but that's all the data I had to work with.) Don't fret, though. Dentists' death rates from other causes are lower, and on average they live several years longer than the general population. Ditto for doctors.

What's the most suicidal occupation? I won't venture an opinion for the world of work overall, but among health-care types it may well be shrinks. In a study of 18,730 physician deaths from 1967 to 1972 (men and women), psychiatrists accounted for 7 percent of the total but 12 percent of the 593 suicides (source: Rich et al., cited above).

Even more alarming is the rate of suicide among female doctors. A recent study found that 3.6 percent of white female doctors' deaths were suicides--higher than the rate for male doctors and many times the average for U.S. women (0.5 percent for 1990; source: Frank et al., cited above; Vital Statistics of the United States--1990). Women have entered medicine in huge numbers in recent decades, but progress has come at a price.

--CECIL ADAMS

SOURCES

Vital Statistics of the United States--1990, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-27, "Deaths from 282 Selected Causes, by 5-Year Age Groups, Race, and Sex: United States--1990."
 
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