Do all schools treat a 3.0 the same, or is it more nuanced than that?

[Slueman33]

For those who are "re-inventing" themselves as a student, having a low GPA and applying to dental school is an absolute nightmare.

I am not sure if its just me, but literally everywhere on FB and Reddit, everyone seems to have a 3.5+, 21+ AA. Its actually incredible how hard working applicants are.

Basically, the 2.9-3.1 club gets NO representation on what the admissions process is like, and I guess it makes sense, there is just not many applicants with those stats, at-least online, and ADEA 2020 stats sort of reflect that.

Anyways, my question is, is a 3.0 for applicant A the same thing as a 3.0 for applicant B, in practical terms?

Lets say applicant A was a traditional 4 year student, who started out poorly, and by the time he graduated, he had an upward trend, and finished with a 3.0 sGPA/3.0cGPA. Normal 4 year progression of courses. 21+ AA and non-URM. Average EC's, average LORs.

Lets say applicant B is a non-traditional student, who started out extremely poorly, and took 3 extra years in undergrad and had a past 70 hour cGPA sGPA of 3.9, but due to his massive amount of credit hours, is still stuck with a 3.0 sGPA/cGPA. Non-traditional progression of courses, made an effort to stack semesters with upper level science credits with labs. 21+ AA and non-URM. Above average EC's, above average LORs.

Does admissions discern the two applicants in any immediate capacity, or is it all truly a numbers game, where applicant A or applicant B are seen in the same exact brand as the "3.0"er?

Any low GPA matriculants especially caring to chime in, would be wonderfully appreciated!

Thanks so much!

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[Tvirtumas]

For those who are "re-inventing" themselves as a student, having a low GPA and applying to dental school is an absolute nightmare.

I am not sure if its just me, but literally everywhere on FB and Reddit, everyone seems to have a 3.5+, 21+ AA. Its actually incredible how hard working applicants are.

Basically, the 2.9-3.1 club gets NO representation on what the admissions process is like, and I guess it makes sense, there is just not many applicants with those stats, at-least online, and ADEA 2020 stats sort of reflect that.

Anyways, my question is, is a 3.0 for applicant A the same thing as a 3.0 for applicant B, in practical terms?

Lets say applicant A was a traditional 4 year student, who started out poorly, and by the time he graduated, he had an upward trend, and finished with a 3.0 sGPA/3.0cGPA. Normal 4 year progression of courses. 21+ AA and non-URM. Average EC's, average LORs.

Lets say applicant B is a non-traditional student, who started out extremely poorly, and took 3 extra years in undergrad and had a past 70 hour cGPA sGPA of 3.9, but due to his massive amount of credit hours, is still stuck with a 3.0 sGPA/cGPA. Non-traditional progression of courses, made an effort to stack semesters with upper level science credits with labs. 21+ AA and non-URM. Above average EC's, above average LORs.

Does admissions discern the two applicants in any immediate capacity, or is it all truly a numbers game, where applicant A or applicant B are seen in the same exact brand as the "3.0"er?

Any low GPA matriculants especially caring to chime in, would be wonderfully appreciated!

Thanks so much!

Applicant A probably wont make it into dental school without actually proving he/she could handle the coursework.

Applicant B could get an acceptance. It may require a masters, but maintaining a 3.9 with upper level coursework would probably raise some eyebrows.

 

[sobertiger]

For those who are "re-inventing" themselves as a student, having a low GPA and applying to dental school is an absolute nightmare.

I am not sure if its just me, but literally everywhere on FB and Reddit, everyone seems to have a 3.5+, 21+ AA. Its actually incredible how hard working applicants are.

Basically, the 2.9-3.1 club gets NO representation on what the admissions process is like, and I guess it makes sense, there is just not many applicants with those stats, at-least online, and ADEA 2020 stats sort of reflect that.

Anyways, my question is, is a 3.0 for applicant A the same thing as a 3.0 for applicant B, in practical terms?

Lets say applicant A was a traditional 4 year student, who started out poorly, and by the time he graduated, he had an upward trend, and finished with a 3.0 sGPA/3.0cGPA. Normal 4 year progression of courses. 21+ AA and non-URM. Average EC's, average LORs.

Lets say applicant B is a non-traditional student, who started out extremely poorly, and took 3 extra years in undergrad and had a past 70 hour cGPA sGPA of 3.9, but due to his massive amount of credit hours, is still stuck with a 3.0 sGPA/cGPA. Non-traditional progression of courses, made an effort to stack semesters with upper level science credits with labs. 21+ AA and non-URM. Above average EC's, above average LORs.

Does admissions discern the two applicants in any immediate capacity, or is it all truly a numbers game, where applicant A or applicant B are seen in the same exact brand as the "3.0"er?

Any low GPA matriculants especially caring to chime in, would be wonderfully appreciated!

Thanks so much!

Depends on the school, but yes they do take circumstances and upward trends into account. There are quite a few stories of nontraditional applicants who had ~3.0 oGPA and got in after doing well in a postbac or SMP.

 

[deleted994703]

some schools prefer non traditional applicants but if your dat is 21+ you’ll be in a good spot. also your whole application is important, your volunteer hours- some schools want a lot of community service, your personal statement-how you talk about improving as a student. i had a 3.1 undergrad gpa and 19aa i did get a masters/took a bunch of postbac classes and it raised my gpa to a 3.4, but i also see people getting in with similar stats and no masters because they were a dental assistant for many years. so it all depends, you never know what schools look for, you just have to see which schools generally accept more non traditional students but with a very high dat score like 21+ and applying broadly you’ll be fine no masters needed. also keep in mind it’s not very easy to achieve such a high score as people make it out to be. best of luck!

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Average EC's, average LORs.

Above average EC's, above average LORs.

If you’re really trying to look at GPA and trend, you have some poor examples because they’re very different GPA aside.

Honestly if I were an applicant with a 3.0 GPA, as much as I worried about getting into dental school, I’d be just as worried that my best chances are at schools that will leave me $600,000 in debt. That debt is no joke. You better know what you’re getting into.

Big Hoss

 

[Slueman33]

If you’re really trying to look at GPA and trend, you have some poor examples because they’re very different GPA aside.

Honestly if I were an applicant with a 3.0 GPA, as much as I worried about getting into dental school, I’d be just as worried that my best chances are at schools that will leave me $600,000 in debt. That debt is no joke. You better know what you’re getting into.

Big Hoss

Thanks for the concern Big Hoss. No kidding, this is no doubt on my mind. Just left with little options.

My school and my pedigree are not good enough for high finance (IB backup 1)

I refuse to be a code monkey (tech back up 2)

If I am not good enough for dental, I am not good enough for medicine (other health professional backup 3)

I already worked at a pharmacy for 2 years, and realized I would rather be a plumber vs. go to pharmacy.

Final option would be to get a corporate 9-5 and move up the ladder, but I guess I feel more comfortable being in debt in something I seemingly find myself passionate about, rather than go the traditional white-collar job, knowing I would care less for it.

Obligatory I love science and helping people. I don't expect to be some millionaire dentist, by any stretch. In fact, a middle class life would be just fine with me. So long as I am a respected professional in a field that I think is pretty kick ass.

Personally, there is just not many other options than just chasing my dream, rolling the dice on a government backed loan, and just hoping everything works out. And if not, at-least I am in a field I enjoy.

 

[Cookie_nibbler]

Thanks for the concern Big Hoss. No kidding, this is no doubt on my mind. Just left with little options.

My school and my pedigree are not good enough for high finance (IB backup 1)

I refuse to be a code monkey (tech back up 2)

If I am not good enough for dental, I am not good enough for medicine (other health professional backup 3)

I already worked at a pharmacy for 2 years, and realized I would rather be a plumber vs. go to pharmacy.

Final option would be to get a corporate 9-5 and move up the ladder, but I guess I feel more comfortable being in debt in something I seemingly find myself passionate about, rather than go the traditional white-collar job, knowing I would care less for it.

Obligatory I love science and helping people. I don't expect to be some millionaire dentist, by any stretch. In fact, a middle class life would be just fine with me. So long as I am a respected professional in a field that I think is pretty kick ass.

Personally, there is just not many other options than just chasing my dream, rolling the dice on a government backed loan, and just hoping everything works out. And if not, at-least I am in a field I enjoy.

I got into dental school with a 3.1 overall gpa, so its possible without a masters program. I had over 160 credits since I had both my bachelors of science and dental hygiene. My DAT was a 18 TS, 18 AA. Its possible.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks for the concern Big Hoss. No kidding, this is no doubt on my mind. Just left with little options.

My school and my pedigree are not good enough for high finance (IB backup 1)

I refuse to be a code monkey (tech back up 2)

If I am not good enough for dental, I am not good enough for medicine (other health professional backup 3)

I already worked at a pharmacy for 2 years, and realized I would rather be a plumber vs. go to pharmacy.

Final option would be to get a corporate 9-5 and move up the ladder, but I guess I feel more comfortable being in debt in something I seemingly find myself passionate about, rather than go the traditional white-collar job, knowing I would care less for it.

Obligatory I love science and helping people. I don't expect to be some millionaire dentist, by any stretch. In fact, a middle class life would be just fine with me. So long as I am a respected professional in a field that I think is pretty kick ass.

Personally, there is just not many other options than just chasing my dream, rolling the dice on a government backed loan, and just hoping everything works out. And if not, at-least I am in a field I enjoy.

I would suggest going to your career advising office and get an idea of what you would be good at. There are more options than what you have listed, and you don't have much time left to be internship hopping yet still be disenchanted. Besides, people do switch careers after a time. Otherwise, it sounds like you already close doors on yourself, which is only making you miserable.

 

[Slueman33]

I would suggest going to your career advising office and get an idea of what you would be good at. There are more options than what you have listed, and you don't have much time left to be internship hopping yet still be disenchanted. Besides, people do switch careers after a time. Otherwise, it sounds like you already close doors on yourself, which is only making you miserable.

But I am not miserable? This process has been very tough, but also incredibly fulfilling and I am able to see myself evolve in a manner I did not think was possible a short few years ago. I have a lot more to go to satisfy an admissions committee for an interview, but I am by no stretch of the word miserable. If I weren't enjoying this process, I would not have come this far.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

But I am not miserable? This process has been very tough, but also incredibly fulfilling and I am able to see myself evolve in a manner I did not think was possible a short few years ago. I have a lot more to go to satisfy an admissions committee for an interview, but I am by no stretch of the word miserable. If I weren't enjoying this process, I would not have come this far.

That's fine if that is the case. I'm just inferring from the way you describe all of your options that you may see how you have evolved but not necessarily in specific directions. There are many other jobs where you can help people and still enjoy science.

 

[macsak]

For those who are "re-inventing" themselves as a student, having a low GPA and applying to dental school is an absolute nightmare.

I am not sure if its just me, but literally everywhere on FB and Reddit, everyone seems to have a 3.5+, 21+ AA. Its actually incredible how hard working applicants are.

Basically, the 2.9-3.1 club gets NO representation on what the admissions process is like, and I guess it makes sense, there is just not many applicants with those stats, at-least online, and ADEA 2020 stats sort of reflect that.

Anyways, my question is, is a 3.0 for applicant A the same thing as a 3.0 for applicant B, in practical terms?

Lets say applicant A was a traditional 4 year student, who started out poorly, and by the time he graduated, he had an upward trend, and finished with a 3.0 sGPA/3.0cGPA. Normal 4 year progression of courses. 21+ AA and non-URM. Average EC's, average LORs.

Lets say applicant B is a non-traditional student, who started out extremely poorly, and took 3 extra years in undergrad and had a past 70 hour cGPA sGPA of 3.9, but due to his massive amount of credit hours, is still stuck with a 3.0 sGPA/cGPA. Non-traditional progression of courses, made an effort to stack semesters with upper level science credits with labs. 21+ AA and non-URM. Above average EC's, above average LORs.

Does admissions discern the two applicants in any immediate capacity, or is it all truly a numbers game, where applicant A or applicant B are seen in the same exact brand as the "3.0"er?

Any low GPA matriculants especially caring to chime in, would be wonderfully appreciated!

Thanks so much!

i'd pick B if they showed a huge change once they decided on dentistry and worked extra hard to make up for past deficiencies...

 

[Slueman33]

That's fine if that is the case. I'm just inferring from the way you describe all of your options that you may see how you have evolved but not necessarily in specific directions. There are many other jobs where you can help people and still enjoy science.

With all due respect, what is the angle here?

Are you just getting down to the notion that dentistry is most likely not a good fit for me, considering the fact that even after an unprecedented amount of effort, I will still be put in a situation that puts me an untenable amount of financial debt, as Big Hoss had mentioned?

If I had not considered this when I started this journey, I doubt any decision I would have made would have been an informed one.

I appreciate your concern, but I did my time in networking with other professionals and connections offered by my immediate and extended family. I justified the risk/reward for my passions in dentistry, as much as one could, and I fully committed. Nobody knows what the future holds, is it not just an educated gamble for most everybody?

Bottom line is, I simply would not be on here posting about the application process 2-3 years later, if I were still considering other career options. I am sure for others it may be a matter of a sunk cost fallacy, but I truly want this, and have made considerable progress towards it.

I am 25 and still live with my parents. The amount of sacrifice I have made to make this work, and will continue to make; makes it sort of insulting to hear an admissions advisor on SDN insinuating I have not evolved in the correct direction, and that I should explore other careers.

Regardless, I do appreciate your input, as it is highly valued nonetheless.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

With all due respect, what is the angle here?

Are you just getting down to the notion that dentistry is most likely not a good fit for me, considering the fact that even after an unprecedented amount of effort, I will still be put in a situation that puts me an untenable amount of financial debt, as Big Hoss had mentioned?

If I had not considered this when I started this journey, I doubt any decision I would have made would have been an informed one.

I appreciate your concern, but I did my time in networking with other professionals and connections offered by my immediate and extended family. I justified the risk/reward for my passions in dentistry, as much as one could, and I fully committed. Nobody knows what the future holds, is it not just an educated gamble for most everybody?

Bottom line is, I simply would not be on here posting about the application process 2-3 years later, if I were still considering other career options. I am sure for others it may be a matter of a sunk cost fallacy, but I truly want this, and have made considerable progress towards it.

I am 25 and still live with my parents. The amount of sacrifice I have made to make this work, and will continue to make; makes it sort of insulting to hear an admissions advisor on SDN insinuating I have not evolved in the correct direction, and that I should explore other careers.

Regardless, I do appreciate your input, as it is highly valued nonetheless.

I'm just reading your posts -- especially the one where you go through all of your career options and why they aren't appropriate. This is what I attached to:

Thanks for the concern Big Hoss. No kidding, this is no doubt on my mind. Just left with little options.

My school and my pedigree are not good enough for high finance (IB backup 1)

I refuse to be a code monkey (tech back up 2)

If I am not good enough for dental, I am not good enough for medicine (other health professional backup 3)

I already worked at a pharmacy for 2 years, and realized I would rather be a plumber vs. go to pharmacy.

Final option would be to get a corporate 9-5 and move up the ladder, but I guess I feel more comfortable being in debt in something I seemingly find myself passionate about, rather than go the traditional white-collar job, knowing I would care less for it.

I'm trying to follow what you had been thinking about refusing your acceptance. I definitely don't discount the concern about the debt; I think it is absolutely worth a significant pause for sure, and a lot of us do think about the consequences on the practice of health care.

If I'm misreading the intent of this particular line of thinking, thanks for letting me know it's not what I think you meant. I'm just saying every career has risks and unknowns, and I wanted to be sure that you did do your due diligence before getting an offer. But I don't know what the endgame you want is: do you want us to say go ahead and refuse the acceptance or not?

 

[Slueman33]

I'm just reading your posts -- especially the one where you go through all of your career options and why they aren't appropriate. This is what I attached to:


I'm trying to follow what you had been thinking about refusing your acceptance. I definitely don't discount the concern about the debt; I think it is absolutely worth a significant pause for sure, and a lot of us do think about the consequences on the practice of health care.

If I'm misreading the intent of this particular line of thinking, thanks for letting me know it's not what I think you meant. I'm just saying every career has risks and unknowns, and I wanted to be sure that you did do your due diligence before getting an offer. But I don't know what the endgame you want is: do you want us to say go ahead and refuse the acceptance or not?

In hindsight, my post where I breakdown my thoughts of career options listed, was not conveyed in the most thoughtful manner. There is more to those careers than my reasoning provides. Further, I also acknowledge there are other great careers than the ones I had mentioned.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. The goal of my post here was to simply get a better understanding of the perspective held by an admissions committee. Specifically, in regards to applicants with similar numbers, but different academic experiences (per my original post). I have not received an acceptance, as I have yet to apply to the upcoming cycle. I am not seeking advice on what to do should I receive an acceptance, as my whole goal here is to matriculate as a dental student.

Again, I think there was a misunderstanding, but your input is highly regarded.

 

[Bigjt1420]

I got in with a 3.15 overall / 3.1 science gpa. I got into 2 dental schools actually. It’s possible but it’s rare. I had to do a Masters and I a super high DAT score to do it, but it CAN be done. And don’t worry about the people on this site and Reddit and Facebook who just brag about their scores or make phony “will I get in!?” posts when they have a 3.96 gpa and 23 AA on their DAT. Those people just like to gloat — let them.